what are you selling today?

[This2ShallPass]

On 1/6/2025 at 12:29 PM, SafetyinNumbers said:

ELF returns are based mostly on the performance of VOO and quality stocks which are harder to predict and the discount closing which is also hard to predict with no natural buyers. 

@SafetyinNumbers any particular reason for ELF dropping 15% in the last few months? My cash position is building up and this would be on my shortlist.

[SafetyinNumbers]

6 hours ago, This2ShallPass said:

@SafetyinNumbers any particular reason for ELF dropping 15% in the last few months? My cash position is building up and this would be on my shortlist.

I think it’s just because it’s owned by value oriented investors who are worried about the market as a whole are trimming with no passive and quant inflows to offset it. 

[Saluki]

On 1/8/2025 at 2:37 PM, SafetyinNumbers said:

Have you considered SCR.TO instead of OXY? The investor day presentation especially the first 48minutes is worth a watch. Adam Waterous is already a legend on Bay Street as a banker but well on his way to making it as a creator of great companies. 

 

I haven't looked at them but I'll check it out, thanks. 

[SafetyinNumbers]

55 minutes ago, Saluki said:

 

I haven't looked at them but I'll check it out, thanks. 

No problem. Since the Investor Day, oil is up $6, CAD is down which means FCF is probably up to ~$1b from $700m all else being equal. Meanwhile, the stock is down today because it’s not in XEG/XIC yet.

[bizaro86]

10 hours ago, This2ShallPass said:

@SafetyinNumbers any particular reason for ELF dropping 15% in the last few months? My cash position is building up and this would be on my shortlist.

 

I think it was in few special situation type portfolios with the potential for a bump when they announced the usual end of year tender. Since they didn't this year, there might have been some selling there, and it's so illiquid it wouldn't take much to move the price quite a bit. I've added recently. 

[John Hjorth]

I'm going to sell some SCHO.CPH tomorrow, to get coverage for yearly MtM valuation and taxation in tax deferred accounts, to avoid a margin call for taxes in tax deferred accounts.

 

Ohh, well. Naturally, got prepared for what for the Lady of the House to do in that respect, also.

 

Woke her up, in the middle of the night, saying : 'I just fixed it all for you!, - now you really need to ask me out - tomorrow! - Cuckoos Nest will suffice!' Reply : <sleepy> : 'OK...' 

[dealraker]

Sold Blue Owl today.  I can't remember the discussion we had here a couple of years ago and who was a part of it, but it turned out wildly successful as we all bought around $10 per share and out at $24-ish.  I sold APO but will retain BX because of insane gains the tax man, same less so with BN and BAM.

 

I think these asset managers are wildly popular...too popular.  It doesn't always go well for them especially with exponential gains so quickly.  At least to me that's the case.

 

Wasn't long ago that these guys were very unpopular.  

Edited January 14, 2025 by dealraker

[thowed]

Thanks for this @dealraker.  I only looked at these recently - I think due to @Red Lion's very good posts. 

 

I am really impressed by Ares, but not the price so just got a tracker last year, and am going to try and patiently wait.

[Red Lion]

13 hours ago, dealraker said:

Sold Blue Owl today.  I can't remember the discussion we had here a couple of years ago and who was a part of it, but it turned out wildly successful as we all bought around $10 per share and out at $24-ish.  I sold APO but will retain BX because of insane gains the tax man, same less so with BN and BAM.

 

I think these asset managers are wildly popular...too popular.  It doesn't always go well for them especially with exponential gains so quickly.  At least to me that's the case.

 

Wasn't long ago that these guys were very unpopular.  

I sold a good chunk of my original shares but I’m holding onto a core position of APO and OWL. Interesting to see OWL still flying high while APO has pulled back about 15% from its highs. 
 

I bought quite a bit of JOE/ FFH / CP with the proceeds, hopefully I’ll buy back into a full position in APO/OWL after a pullback. These are long term holds for me as opposed to the Brookfield names. 

[John Hjorth]

On 1/14/2025 at 2:33 AM, John Hjorth said:

I'm going to sell some SCHO.CPH tomorrow, to get coverage for yearly MtM valuation and taxation in tax deferred accounts, to avoid a margin call for taxes in tax deferred accounts.

 

Ohh, well. Naturally, got prepared for what for the Lady of the House to do in that respect, also.

 

Woke her up, in the middle of the night, saying : 'I just fixed it all for you!, - now you really need to ask me out - tomorrow! - Cuckoos Nest will suffice!' Reply : <sleepy> : 'OK...' 

 

The socalled PAL-tax withdrawal hit all the households tax deferred accounts today at about 1:30 PM. After working basically most of this week on getting an overview how it all would play out today, I managed to fix it all within an hour or so.

 

Some tax deferred accounts 'fixed' by selling SCHO.CPH, because the account types [called 'kapitalpension'] are abolished and therefore closed for contributions. The others and the rest [called 'ratepension'] fixed by a combination of contributing cash and sellling SCHO.CPH.

 

Terrorist tax collection at its best, no bill in advance, no specifikcation, just a a cash transaction, funds dragged out of the account on the day.

 

Thank God it's now over for this year.

[Eng12345]

16 minutes ago, John Hjorth said:

 

The socalled PAL-tax withdrawal hit all the households tax deferred accounts today at about 1:30 PM. After working basically most of this week on getting an overview how it all would play out today, I managed to fix it all within an hour or so.

 

Some tax deferred accounts 'fixed' by selling SCHO.CPH, because the account types [called 'kapitalpension'] are abolished and therefore closed for contributions. The others and the rest [called 'ratepension'] fixed by a combination of contributing cash and sellling SCHO.CPH.

 

Terrorist tax collection at its best, no bill in advance, no specifikcation, just a a cash transaction, funds dragged out of the account on the day.

 

Thank God it's now over for this year.

They just full sweep money out of your account? 

 

That's absolutely insane for me to comprehend! And I complain about my property taxes - paying money to own something! 

[John Hjorth]

7 minutes ago, Eng12345 said:

They just full sweep money out of your account? 

 

That's absolutely insane for me to comprehend! And I complain about my property taxes - paying money to own something! 

 

@Eng12345,

 

Not just full sweep money out of the households accounts, but also subject to a margin call tomorrow for an eventual cash overdraft, if not fixed today. It's actually friggin' crazy to treat citizens this way.

 

I should really get in contact with the member of our legislative body [, called 'Folketinget'], whining for material change. -Every year, I think now is the time to do something about it on the political level, and then - within a few weeks, it's 'just the past', because the view is forward looking!

[Eng12345]

Just now, John Hjorth said:

 

@Eng12345,

 

Not just full sweep money out of the households accounts, but also subject to a margin call tomorrow for an eventual cash overdraft, if not fixed today. It's actually friggin' crazy to treat citizens this way.

 

I should really get in contact with the member of our legislative body [, called 'Folketinget'], whining for material change. -Every year, I think now is the time to do something about it on the political level, and then - within a few weeks, it's 'just the past', because the view is forward looking!

That's unreal. Makes me thankful to be in the US where something so brazen would result in significant outcry. 

 

At the very minimum have chat gpt write you an email to your reps. The benefits of living in a western democracy. 

[formthirteen]

2 hours ago, John Hjorth said:

Not just full sweep money out of the households accounts, but also subject to a margin call tomorrow for an eventual cash overdraft, if not fixed today. It's actually friggin' crazy to treat citizens this way.

 

Sounds like confiscation of tax payer investor money. I had to look up the tax policy:

https://skat.dk/en-us/individuals/shares-and-securities
 

Quote

In 2025, you must pay:

• 27% tax on the first DKK 63,300 (2024: DKK 61,000) in income from shares

• 42% on income from shares in excess of DKK 63,300 (2024: DKK 61,000).   

Income from shares consists of both dividends and gain (profit) from sale.

 

 

Quote

If you leave Denmark and have shares with a market value of DKK 100,000 or more, we regard any gains or losses on your shares as having been realised. If you have a net gain, we therefore levy tax on the gain in accordance with the general rules of the Danish Capital Gains Tax Act.

 

Sounds a bit like the mafia (can't leave without getting beat up) and excessive, but the Danes at least get value in return for their taxes.

[Castanza]

Let me get this straight. They just mtm your unrealized gains in a tax deferred account and take 42% of any "gains" north of 63k (~8k usd)...and they do this on an annual basis? 

 

@John Hjorth How the Hell do you save money for retirement in your country? 

[73 Reds]

4 minutes ago, Castanza said:

Let me get this straight. They just mtm your unrealized gains in a tax deferred account and take 42% of any "gains" north of 63k (~8k usd)...and they do this on an annual basis? 

 

@John Hjorth How the Hell do you save money for retirement in your country? 

Yeah, what is tax deferred about a 42% annual tax above a relatively small amount of yearly gains?  I'd hate to know what a taxable account looks like.

[John Hjorth]

@Eng12345, @formthirteen, @Castanza & @73 Reds,

 

It's actually a bit more complicated. What @formthirteen posted above is about taxable accounts, and in that respect true and correct.

 

For tax deferred accounts, the tax scheme here for the return taxation is as follows:

 

Nordnet Bank AB, Danish branch : How is this year's PAL tax calculated? [Google translation]

[73 Reds]

8 hours ago, John Hjorth said:

@Eng12345, @formthirteen, @Castanza & @73 Reds,

 

It's actually a bit more complicated. What @formthirteen posted above is about taxable accounts, and in that respect true and correct.

 

For tax deferred accounts, the tax scheme here for the return taxation is as follows:

 

Nordnet Bank AB, Danish branch : How is this year's PAL tax calculated? [Google translation]

John, it still looks like a taxable account.  What am I missing?  Do they tax you even more when you withdraw the funds?  

[John Hjorth]

33 minutes ago, 73 Reds said:

John, it still looks like a taxable account.  What am I missing?  Do they tax you even more when you withdraw the funds?  

 

@73 Reds,

 

I can't help it, I'm actually chukling a bit here!  : The answer to your question is : Yes! I'll try to elaborate a bit, later, perhaps it will be tomorrow. I know it reads totally crazy for many, especially for the North American CofB&F members.

Edited January 16, 2025 by John Hjorth

[Milu]

6 minutes ago, John Hjorth said:

 

@73 Reds,

 

I can't help it, I'm actually chukling a bit here!  : The answer to your question is : Yes! I'll try to elaborate a bit, later, perhaps it will be tomorrow. I know it reads totally crazy for many, especially for the North American CofB&F members.

Europe is generally a very hard place to build wealth through investing due to these types of taxes and levels. Looking at how Denmark do things it almost makes me thankful to live in Ireland with our 33% cap gains rate, and no exit tax if you decide to leave. Might just keep sitting on any unrealised gains and eventually move back to canada in 10-15 years to retire and live off portfolio. Even through canada is seen as a relatively high tax country, if you aim to live solely off capital gains with no income, the tax rates are quite low.

[Paarslaars]

1 hour ago, Milu said:

Europe is generally a very hard place to build wealth through investing due to these types of taxes and levels. Looking at how Denmark do things it almost makes me thankful to live in Ireland with our 33% cap gains rate, and no exit tax if you decide to leave. Might just keep sitting on any unrealised gains and eventually move back to canada in 10-15 years to retire and live off portfolio. Even through canada is seen as a relatively high tax country, if you aim to live solely off capital gains with no income, the tax rates are quite low.

 

Tax on capital gains in Belgium is 0 (so far), government is looking into it though.

[Milu]

53 minutes ago, Paarslaars said:

 

Tax on capital gains in Belgium is 0 (so far), government is looking into it though.

Quite the outlier in Europe. Wonder what the background is on that, has there ever been a cgt tax in Belgium before, and is there some other rules where they end up getting their cut somehow? Might make more sense for the wealthy Europeans to start moving to Belgium rather than Monaco or Switzerland!

[Paarslaars]

There are certain limitations. Basically they don't want to tax the good household dad. So if you hold stocks for +/- 1 year or longer, gains are not taxed. If you do more speculative trades, it is taxed in theory but in practice only if you make enough money with it that the tax department notices.

 

Dividends are taxed at 30% though.

[lnofeisone]

Shorted some UNG calls.

[Kizion]

14 hours ago, lnofeisone said:

Shorted some UNG calls.

 

Interesting, could you share your thesis? Too much run up in past weeks? 

Looks still on lowish side if you zoom out a few years (excluding the peak due to UK-RU). 

Edited January 17, 2025 by Kizion