StevieV Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 6 hours ago, RedLion said: I think cg is a good buy here. Personally I would rather own apo and kkr even at a higher valuation, but I think cg has the most upside if they can steadily grow aum and move margins in line with their peers. So far they haven’t done either one, but maybe the new ceo will help. I think CG is probably a good buy here too. They have some potential margin expansion and multiple expansion for the reasons n.r98 mentions. However, I also prefer KKR and APO, though I haven't compared particularly at current prices. The alternative asset managers have become more than just PE shops and I think management and longer term planning is pretty critical for the best outcomes. As these companies grow, they need to find new large areas to expand into in the next 5 year, 10 years and beyond. I believe that Bruce Flatt mentioned that the next 2-3 years of 15%+ growth are locked in and they are starting to work on the years after that. I think BAM and others are looking significantly farther after that. Marc Rowan at APO has a strategy. Many may think it is insurance, and it is, but it is also credit origination. Plus, he's chosen Australia, Japan and Europe geographically. Bruce Flatt (Brookfield) has a strategy and that is pushing hard into infrastructure, energy transition and, I believe, Asia. BX has gone hard into real estate and retail distribution. KKR is always talking about their proliferation of strategies. As I see it, everyone is trying to position themselves to be able to grow double digits not just for the next few years, but in 5 and 10 years, and hopefully beyond. I'm not sure who has the best strategy, but I think each company is pursuing a strategy. CG just really hasn't had the leadership stability for me to have as much confidence in the same. In 2018 they named co-CEOs. In 2020, Youngkin left and Kew was sole CEO. In 2022, Kew left and they have been without a CEO for a number of months. From my vantage point, I thought Kew was very effective. I thought it was a big mistake not to run with Kew and am concerned it was a personalities clash and not performance. That's just speculation of course. I mean, I listened to at least most available interviews and I'm not sure Kew and I would be best friends (that's not a knock on Mr. Lee - his public persona seemed perfectly fine), but I think he was doing the job and had the company headed in the right direction. I got off on a bit of a tangent there, but the point is that leadership is critical and CG hasn't had enough stability in the recent past. Here's hoping the new CEO gets them onto the right track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tnathan Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 Put on a pair trade - short arkk (via SARK) and then bought DIA...Unless we really have a crazy run here I think this works out well. Does anyone disagree? Open to feedback! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedLion Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, StevieV said: I think CG is probably a good buy here too. They have some potential margin expansion and multiple expansion for the reasons n.r98 mentions. However, I also prefer KKR and APO, though I haven't compared particularly at current prices. The alternative asset managers have become more than just PE shops and I think management and longer term planning is pretty critical for the best outcomes. As these companies grow, they need to find new large areas to expand into in the next 5 year, 10 years and beyond. I believe that Bruce Flatt mentioned that the next 2-3 years of 15%+ growth are locked in and they are starting to work on the years after that. I think BAM and others are looking significantly farther after that. Marc Rowan at APO has a strategy. Many may think it is insurance, and it is, but it is also credit origination. Plus, he's chosen Australia, Japan and Europe geographically. Bruce Flatt (Brookfield) has a strategy and that is pushing hard into infrastructure, energy transition and, I believe, Asia. BX has gone hard into real estate and retail distribution. KKR is always talking about their proliferation of strategies. As I see it, everyone is trying to position themselves to be able to grow double digits not just for the next few years, but in 5 and 10 years, and hopefully beyond. I'm not sure who has the best strategy, but I think each company is pursuing a strategy. CG just really hasn't had the leadership stability for me to have as much confidence in the same. In 2018 they named co-CEOs. In 2020, Youngkin left and Kew was sole CEO. In 2022, Kew left and they have been without a CEO for a number of months. From my vantage point, I thought Kew was very effective. I thought it was a big mistake not to run with Kew and am concerned it was a personalities clash and not performance. That's just speculation of course. I mean, I listened to at least most available interviews and I'm not sure Kew and I would be best friends (that's not a knock on Mr. Lee - his public persona seemed perfectly fine), but I think he was doing the job and had the company headed in the right direction. I got off on a bit of a tangent there, but the point is that leadership is critical and CG hasn't had enough stability in the recent past. Here's hoping the new CEO gets them onto the right track. Imagine Brookfield acquiring CG and then allocating the balance sheet to BN and the asset manager to BAM. If they used a combination of shares at let’s say a 50% premium it would still be accretive, and presumably this could help achieve scale and aum growth for BN to rival BX. Probably would never happen, but I think it would create value for shareholders of both companies. This discussion makes me want to add at least a starter position to CG. I have a starter position in ARES I picked up around $62 at recent lows, and will hold and add if the valuation becomes more reasonable. Picked up a LOT of BX in October through December bringing my cost basis from the $30s up to about $80 (and now my largest position). Added to APO in the mid $50s which is almost equal weight with BX and BN. KKR is my best performer (initiated in 2020 Covid crash) but the one that got away since it’s only about 2/3 of a full position just missed my buy orders in the low $40s. Edited February 8, 2023 by RedLion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave86ch Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 Added to Bitcoin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n.r98 Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 (edited) 6 hours ago, RedLion said: Imagine Brookfield acquiring CG and then allocating the balance sheet to BN and the asset manager to BAM. If they used a combination of shares at let’s say a 50% premium it would still be accretive, and presumably this could help achieve scale and aum growth for BN to rival BX. Probably would never happen, but I think it would create value for shareholders of both companies. This discussion makes me want to add at least a starter position to CG. I have a starter position in ARES I picked up around $62 at recent lows, and will hold and add if the valuation becomes more reasonable. Picked up a LOT of BX in October through December bringing my cost basis from the $30s up to about $80 (and now my largest position). Added to APO in the mid $50s which is almost equal weight with BX and BN. KKR is my best performer (initiated in 2020 Covid crash) but the one that got away since it’s only about 2/3 of a full position just missed my buy orders in the low $40s. Don't have much knowledge in this space but what are the probabilities that CG tries to sell itself to a bigger player like Brooksfield for e.g.? Why can't that happen? Brooksfield did acquire Oaktree Cap Mgmt a couple years back after all. Some other catalysts not oft mentioned re this space is S&P inclusion - the firms have slimmed their share structures etc. Also @StevieV, think Kew left because he wasn't granted the pay package he demanded https://www.ft.com/content/0d0187d3-e0fb-4e87-bbfb-2e63f467f9f4 Edited February 8, 2023 by n.r98 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregmal Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 On 8/2/2022 at 12:19 PM, Gregmal said: For those that were interested in UBER a few weeks ago todays release somewhat validates the thesis. I added a smidge more at the open. More thesis validation today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevieV Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 2 hours ago, n.r98 said: Also @StevieV, think Kew left because he wasn't granted the pay package he demanded https://www.ft.com/content/0d0187d3-e0fb-4e87-bbfb-2e63f467f9f4 I have apparently run out of FT free articles. If I recall correctly, most of the reporting was that Kew left when the board wouldn't discuss his $300 million pay package proposal. $300 million is obviously a huge number, but probably not out of line for this type of position. The new CG CEO has a $180 million incentive program, so the board isn't opposed to a large incentive pay package. I think there was other reporting about him being pushed out as well. I'm out of Bloomberg articles as well apparently, but the part of the below article that I can see says Kew was abruptly pushed out. I don't know how accurate the reporting is and only the parties closer to this know for sure, but I don't think it is plausible that it was only a pay dispute. If the board wanted to keep Kew, I think they would have negotiated a deal. The targets are a huge factor in these incentive deals along with the headline numbers. The new CEO isn't getting $180 automatically; it requires 110% stock appreciation in 5-years. If Kew wanted a higher headline number, the board could have put a higher target - 150%, 180% in 5-years. In any event, neither here nor there at this point. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-08-17/carlyle-ceo-drama-exposes-fault-lines-between-old-guard-and-new?leadSource=uverify wall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cod Liver Oil Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 (edited) More Nintendo since there seems to be no obvious catalyst. Edited February 8, 2023 by Cod Liver Oil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fareastwarriors Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 3 hours ago, StevieV said: I have apparently run out of FT free articles. If I recall correctly, most of the reporting was that Kew left when the board wouldn't discuss his $300 million pay package proposal. $300 million is obviously a huge number, but probably not out of line for this type of position. The new CG CEO has a $180 million incentive program, so the board isn't opposed to a large incentive pay package. I think there was other reporting about him being pushed out as well. I'm out of Bloomberg articles as well apparently, but the part of the below article that I can see says Kew was abruptly pushed out. I don't know how accurate the reporting is and only the parties closer to this know for sure, but I don't think it is plausible that it was only a pay dispute. If the board wanted to keep Kew, I think they would have negotiated a deal. The targets are a huge factor in these incentive deals along with the headline numbers. The new CEO isn't getting $180 automatically; it requires 110% stock appreciation in 5-years. If Kew wanted a higher headline number, the board could have put a higher target - 150%, 180% in 5-years. In any event, neither here nor there at this point. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-08-17/carlyle-ceo-drama-exposes-fault-lines-between-old-guard-and-new?leadSource=uverify wall here you go https://archive.is/q3XOU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paarslaars Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 2 hours ago, Cod Liver Oil said: More Nintendo since there seems to be no obvious catalyst. Same Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAK Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 5 hours ago, fareastwarriors said: here you go https://archive.is/q3XOU Nice, this might have solved a problem for me actually. Needed a copy of something from a site that’s down for work, and Google cache doesn’t store images. On the FT issue.. a way around lots of paywall sites is to Google the title of the article in Cognito mode. No cookies and the native search hit is accessible… Sometimes you might need to delete cookies on Chrome anyway, but I’d say 90% of the time, you don’t. Doesn’t work on all paywalls, but it works on enough! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aws Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 This site helps with lots of paywalls: https://12ft.io/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paarslaars Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 Alphabet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedLion Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 Added APO with cash in 401k. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevieV Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 Well, now I know what you thought of the earnings report without asking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castanza Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 (edited) GOOGL In case non of you are aware. Alphabet is going out of business, everyone will download Edge as their mobile browser and Bing with ChatGPT integration will be the new king and everyone will forego the rest of the Chrome suite. Edited February 9, 2023 by Castanza Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorpRaider Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 (edited) Clippah Edited February 9, 2023 by CorpRaider Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedLion Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, StevieV said: Well, now I know what you thought of the earnings report without asking. Seems pretty crazy to sell off shares because of higher expenses that seem to be largely related to the Griffin acquisition which seems obviously related to Apollo's plans to supercharge retail HNW fundraising. I haven't fully parsed everything yet, I'm halfway through the CC now and read the press releases, and I see the stock thesis intact and in play. I hesitate to buy more because I'm technically a little bit over my maximum allocation here, but business is good and I think I'll be upping my stock max position sizes (by invested capital not market value) in the next few months. Meanwhile, the market seems to be ignoring the rollout of insurance sidecar #2 which management expects will be bigger than #1 and will take up a larger % of new Athene annuities than sidecar #1, thus creating additional fees and turning their "asset heavy" insurance business back to a more asset light mix over time. This seems like great news to me. Edited February 9, 2023 by RedLion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkbabang Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 Jan 2025 Overstock $40 calls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fareastwarriors Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 43 minutes ago, CorpRaider said: Clippah CLPR? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorpRaider Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 (edited) 8 minutes ago, fareastwarriors said: CLPR? Yah. In the interest of disclosure, I've been taking crazy pills about buying these big REITs at like Detroit SFH rental home multiples and listening to real estate grifter audiobooks. Edited February 9, 2023 by CorpRaider Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spooky Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 7 minutes ago, CorpRaider said: listening to real estate grifter audiobooks Any good ones? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorpRaider Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Spooky said: Any good ones? Nah, just Kyosaki. I like the first few chapters of RD,PD and CF-Q. Listened to the UHAL and EQC calls recently too, could be relevant. EQC likes self storage and SFH. Variant perception there. Edited February 9, 2023 by CorpRaider Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fareastwarriors Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 1 hour ago, Castanza said: GOOGL +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
throw123 Posted February 10, 2023 Share Posted February 10, 2023 nestle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now