Hektor Posted October 14 Posted October 14 1 hour ago, dealraker said: Somebody is in process of leapfrogging both these guys. We just don't know it yet. +1
Dalal.Holdings Posted October 14 Posted October 14 18 minutes ago, Milu said: You seem quite hung up on what degree type somebody has and how that should prevent them from innovating in certain industries. Didn't realise this was still a thing for people. I actually don't trust Buffett to make good investments because he does not have an MBA, CPA, etc... As far as "leapfrogging", I don't think history has too many individuals who have simultaneously started & run two wildly groundbreaking businesses. I would not bet on it happening again anytime soon.
Dalal.Holdings Posted October 14 Posted October 14 The great thing about private businesses is that there is someone in charge who can overrule committees. Committees are the death of innovation.
John Hjorth Posted October 14 Posted October 14 <No comments>, other than : It's all about [bad a**] attitude. Fly, fail, fix. Nothing is impossible.
Luke Posted October 14 Posted October 14 1 hour ago, UK said: Now, I do not like everything Elon says or does...but how come one can even doubt his brains or achievements at this point? And Luke, IIRC, at the same time you think that Putin and Xi are great and/or smart:)? With respect, but I personally think there are some serious flaws in your judgments:) Its astonishing how you get from Xi and Putin to Elon Musk in this thread but okay. These things are totally different, rocket science and governance. I dont think both would be able to do what the tesla team does and do I even have to explain that? With respect, please move on from the China and Russia debate. Elon has a giant team behind everything that he markets under his name, many of them smarter than him and those people are left out of the picture completely. I think there are judgement errors on your part too. Him not having a proper degree that is a basic necessity to do one simple thing in this field shows me that he has some mighty smart workers that drive innovation and I am highly skeptical how much of the innovation of these firms is just due to his bachelor level physics input. Now i will leave you guys to further fanboy about Elon
rkbabang Posted October 14 Posted October 14 Any multi-millionaire/billionaire could just do what Musk did, he's just got a bachelor's degree, he's only a salesman, etc. Please point me to all of the other billionaires that have outcompeted nation-states in the space industry with reusable rockets and grown successful automobile companies from scratch in modern times producing a type of vehicle even the major manufacturers had no success producing. I can't seem to find any info on them. I know you don't like the fact that he supports free speech online, but really, you're full of crap and you know it. He's probably the most important human being that has lived in our life time.
dealraker Posted October 14 Posted October 14 (edited) Elon's gunslinger "disruptive" personality is hugely attractive to many and magnifies his presence everywhere. Over the years though all this is absolutely forgotten or never even known as the next round of achievers and/or those needing/succeeding at gaining attention blanket the last bunch. Elon's thus far achievements will seem rediculously minimal. Edited October 14 by dealraker Spelling
rkbabang Posted October 14 Posted October 14 Even at Twitter/X he got rid of 80% of the employees and has introduced more features and upgrades than pre-Musk twitter had in many years before he bought it. X is thriving under Musk. He over-paid sure, but it is the lone place online where the average person can talk without being censored. I know I quit FB 2 years ago after getting sick of having my posts removed. The political censoring on every other platform is ubiquitous, even though a leftists would probably never see it. SpaceX just had to rescue astronauts Boing left stranded in orbit. Yet most people don't even know this happed. If it was the other way around (SpaceX trapping people in space with a defective spacecraft and Boing had to rescue them) there would have been wall-to-wall coverage on every media outlet, demands for congressional investigations, Hollywood/Netflix would be doing TV series or made for TV movies, etc. But because it was Boing being shown as incompetent on their over-budget spacecraft it was barely mentioned and largely ignored.
UK Posted October 14 Posted October 14 (edited) 18 minutes ago, dealraker said: Elon's gunslinger "disruptive" personality is hugely attractive to many and magnifies his presence everywhere. Over the years though all this is absolutely forgotten or never even known as the next round of achievers an/or those needing/succeeding at gaining attention blanket the last bunch. Elon's thus far achievements will seem rediculously minimal. His personality is exactly a thing I do not like the most about him. In some way it is simillar with Trump. Perhaps Jobs or even Gates were not exatly flawless personalities either:)? I also never owned TSLA, to the contrary, only its put options:). He is promotional. He will do mistakes. But despite this I just can not understand how one can see him as underachiever or not inhumanely smart:). Of course he is not God, neither does everything alone, but boy he has achieved a lot as I see it. Edited October 14 by UK
rkbabang Posted October 14 Posted October 14 11 minutes ago, UK said: I also never owned TSLA, to the contrary, only its put options:) I've owned Tesla early on and sold after a little more than a double. I've subsequently lost more money in put options than I originally made owning Tesla. I'd have been better off if I had never bought puts and I'd have been much, much, much better off if I had never sold my Tesla stock.
Milu Posted October 14 Posted October 14 34 minutes ago, UK said: His personality is exactly a thing I do not like the most about him. In some way it is simillar with Trump. Perhaps Jobs or even Gates were not exatly flawless personalities either:)? I also never owned TSLA, to the contrary, only its put options:). He is promotional. He will do mistakes. But despite this I just can not understand how one can see him as underachiever or not inhumanely smart:). Of course he is not God, neither does everything alone, but boy he has achieved a lot as I see it. I've been a fan of Musk for a long time. Bought the stock in 2011 I think for an initial price of $32 a share(it's split so many times I don't even know what my split adjusted price was), I believe it IPO'd in the high teens so I've done quite well to say the least. While I think he's great it doesn't mean I agree with everything he does. Wish he didn't waste so much of his time on twitter, didn't like it when he accused that cave diver guy of being a pedo, shilling for Trump is likley something he will come to regret. But as you said above anybody who calls him overrated or a charlatan needs top get their head checked. The guy is without doubt the most transformational Entrepreneur any of us will ever see in our lifetime when it comes to doing the impossible. That type of person isn't going to fit into the mould of a manager-operator like Tim Cook or Satya Nadella so you kind of have to accept the good and the bad of such an extreme personality.
dealraker Posted October 14 Posted October 14 1 hour ago, Milu said: I've been a fan of Musk for a long time. Bought the stock in 2011 I think for an initial price of $32 a share(it's split so many times I don't even know what my split adjusted price was), I believe it IPO'd in the high teens so I've done quite well to say the least. While I think he's great it doesn't mean I agree with everything he does. Wish he didn't waste so much of his time on twitter, didn't like it when he accused that cave diver guy of being a pedo, shilling for Trump is likley something he will come to regret. But as you said above anybody who calls him overrated or a charlatan needs top get their head checked. The guy is without doubt the most transformational Entrepreneur any of us will ever see in our lifetime when it comes to doing the impossible. That type of person isn't going to fit into the mould of a manager-operator like Tim Cook or Satya Nadella so you kind of have to accept the good and the bad of such an extreme personality. Could absolute not disagree more intensely. Musk is in the moment...next guy will be even more so.
backtothebeach Posted October 14 Posted October 14 2 hours ago, dealraker said: ... Over the years though all this is absolutely forgotten or never even known as the next round of achievers and/or those needing/succeeding at gaining attention blanket the last bunch. Elon's thus far achievements will seem rediculously minimal. Like that Henry Ford guy that hardly anyone remembers ... lol
thowed Posted October 14 Posted October 14 Thinking 'personalities' like Musk are all good (fans) or all bad (haters) is hopefully not what anyone on this board will do. Because I think we all know that if you transfer to thinking that about a company, it means you're going to be unable to perform any sort of analysis with any detail or nuance. Personally I have a problem with Musk's risk management. With both Tesla and Space X, it seems that he came incredibly close to going bust. So sure, he's achieved some amazing things with the companies, but he came too close to the sun, and so it very nearly didn't happen. This is one of the things with Buffett - he did it without basically 'playing the lottery'.
Gregmal Posted October 14 Posted October 14 8 minutes ago, thowed said: Thinking 'personalities' like Musk are all good (fans) or all bad (haters) is hopefully not what anyone on this board will do. Because I think we all know that if you transfer to thinking that about a company, it means you're going to be unable to perform any sort of analysis with any detail or nuance. Personally I have a problem with Musk's risk management. With both Tesla and Space X, it seems that he came incredibly close to going bust. So sure, he's achieved some amazing things with the companies, but he came too close to the sun, and so it very nearly didn't happen. This is one of the things with Buffett - he did it without basically 'playing the lottery'. Listen Warren is great and all, but if everyone decided they’d never take risks, hoard an obscene amount of cash most of the time, and then look to cash in when there’s “blood in the streets”, ie the majority of the system and those in it are hurting, I don’t think we d have ANY sort of innovations, ever.
boilermaker75 Posted October 14 Posted October 14 15 minutes ago, thowed said: Thinking 'personalities' like Musk are all good (fans) or all bad (haters) is hopefully not what anyone on this board will do. Because I think we all know that if you transfer to thinking that about a company, it means you're going to be unable to perform any sort of analysis with any detail or nuance. Personally I have a problem with Musk's risk management. With both Tesla and Space X, it seems that he came incredibly close to going bust. So sure, he's achieved some amazing things with the companies, but he came too close to the sun, and so it very nearly didn't happen. This is one of the things with Buffett - he did it without basically 'playing the lottery'.
Milu Posted October 14 Posted October 14 39 minutes ago, dealraker said: Could absolute not disagree more intensely. Musk is in the moment...next guy will be even more so. Be sure to let me know who the 'next guy' is once you come across him. Would love to invest
dealraker Posted October 14 Posted October 14 Above all it is blisteringly clear to me, whether tech, innovation, politics...it simply does not matter. But we are absorbed by the cult of personalities and abrasive always gains followers best. The personal/interactive nature of distancing connections via social media has pole vaulted this theme. Add to this the effect of a successfully promoted, thus years ahead of itself stock price and you have something very easy to predict, all 7 of Cialdini's persuasions at work in lollapalooza style...a real life authority hero.
Dalal.Holdings Posted October 14 Posted October 14 (edited) 20 minutes ago, dealraker said: Above all it is blisteringly clear to me, whether tech, innovation, politics...it simply does not matter. But we are absorbed by the cult of personalities and abrasive always gains followers best. The personal/interactive nature of distancing connections via social media has pole vaulted this theme. Add to this the effect of a successfully promoted, thus years ahead of itself stock price and you have something very easy to predict, all 7 of Cialdini's persuasions at work in lollapalooza style...a real life authority hero. It's kind of funny that Elon haters remind me of Steve Jobs haters in that they aren't able to figure out that the brash personality is a key factor behind the success. Jobs believed some holistic medicine could cure his pancreatic cancer and deferred surgery despite hollering from family, doctors, friends (which would have actually cured him) and ended up having it spread to his liver which led to ultimate demise. He wasn't going to listen to anyone else. Like Jobs, you have to accept Elon the whole package. He is not going to be a smooth talking politician. That's why he achieves what he has and why there are no Elons sprouting in the EU. Edited October 14 by Dalal.Holdings
dealraker Posted October 14 Posted October 14 10 minutes ago, Dalal.Holdings said: It's kind of funny that Elon haters remind me of Steve Jobs haters in that they aren't able to figure out that the brash personality is a key factor behind the success. Jobs believed some holistic medicine could cure his pancreatic cancer and deferred surgery despite hollering from family, doctors, friends (which would have actually cured him) and ended up having it spread to his liver which led to ultimate demise. He wasn't going to listen to anyone else. Like Jobs, you have to accept Elon the whole package. He is not going to be a smooth talking politician. That's why he achieves what he has and why there are no Elons sprouting in the EU. Nah, Jobs was the real thing.
Dalal.Holdings Posted October 14 Posted October 14 3 minutes ago, dealraker said: Nah, Jobs was the real thing. This is hilarious if you actually believe this after all your posts about "cult of personality" and "abrasive" leaders. I can picture you (or some version of you) while Jobs was alive: "Why does Jobs get credit? It's really all the engineers who work at Apple that pulled this off!" "Jobs didn't start Apple it was really Steve Wozniak's company that he stole from him!" "Did you hear that story about Jobs being rude to his employees?" "Did you know no one at Apple wants to get in an elevator with Steve because he's fired people for that?" "Did you know he refused to admit that child out of wedlock was his?" And the cycle repeats...
dealraker Posted October 14 Posted October 14 (edited) Of course I'm being a tad facetious here guys, but I've witnessed so many of this same discussion so many times about so many men... I can't help but chat it up some. Time after time if you and I live a while there will be many more. People forget, they are simply not capable of meaningful comparison (I'm not either), we just live in the moment. Opinions will be endless. Edited October 14 by dealraker
Spekulatius Posted October 14 Posted October 14 11 hours ago, dealraker said: Probably the most over-rated entrepreneur. Also more groundbreaking is his skills of getting US guv funding and tax credits. He is not overrated. He clearly is instrumental with SpaceX that does things that other entities that get government funding too can’t do. Then again he is gaslighting at the same time as well, as seen with the Robotaxi event which was all vaporware. You can be a genius and shill at the same time.
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