Parsad Posted March 20 Posted March 20 30 minutes ago, rogermunibond said: There are plenty of MAGA influencers who see this for what it is. Tucker Carlson, Boebert, MTG, et al. Those who thought Trump would end wars that earned the US nothing but dead servicemen. 21 minutes ago, Gregmal said: What, now those are your friends? Wonder what changed LOL Nooo...I would happily punch Tucker Carlson in the face for free or without anyone asking me to. Even his parents reconsidered abortion after he grew up and became what he became! What a waste of space. Cheers!
Viking Posted March 20 Posted March 20 Interesting take on the war in Iran from a 'barrel counter.' No idea how it plays out... the longer it continues the more disruptive things get (economy, inflation, bond yields, equities etc). The solution is pretty simple: the key actors (Trump and the Iranian regime) simply need to act rationally. Of course, that is probably the biggest reason why the war continues... Perhaps another way to look at it... who gets hurt more if the war continues? I think it is Trump/US. This is because we are likely getting to an inflection point with the world economy / inflation / interest rates etc. The pressure on Trump/US will start to ratchet higher - and the severe adverse impact on the US (inflation, interest rates, economy, financial markets etc) will likely start to emerge more fully. What a crazy situation.
cubsfan Posted March 20 Posted March 20 15 minutes ago, 73 Reds said: Agreed. Pretty much every prior venture in the Middle East has resulted in failure. If we picked up and left today, the mission would be deemed a success, at least insofar as setting Iran's nuclear capabilities back. If the goal is containment we can rinse and repeat as necessary - no one can legitimately refute that with a straight face as long as we have an Administration willing to do so. But the goal for now is higher. When you have all the momentum going for you, only a fool would let up. The best chance ever to destroy a terrorist nation. But the Trump haters continue to cheer on Iran. It's comical.
73 Reds Posted March 20 Posted March 20 1 minute ago, cubsfan said: When you have all the momentum going for you, only a fool would let up. The best chance ever to destroy a terrorist nation. But the Trump haters continue to cheer on Iran. It's comical. Cubs, in their defense many of them are talking their book, i.e., their investment portfolios. No one likes to see their net worth drop (unless you are wired like Buffett, who knows what to do), especially due to issues with which you are not ideologically aligned. But this will all be short-lived. All the Trump-haters need to do is go back and listen to the man speak on these issues decades ago. Very little has changed in his thinking.
Viking Posted March 20 Posted March 20 (edited) 32 minutes ago, 73 Reds said: Agreed. Pretty much every prior venture in the Middle East has resulted in failure. If we picked up and left today, the mission would be deemed a success, at least insofar as setting Iran's nuclear capabilities back. If the goal is containment we can rinse and repeat as necessary - no one can legitimately refute that with a straight face as long as we have an Administration willing to do so. But the goal for now is higher. It takes two to tango. If the US 'packed up today and left', yes, the bombing of Iran from the US might stop. What if Iran keeps the Straight of Hormuz closed? Iran would be idiots to open the straight without guarantees from US/Israeli's. My guess is the Israeli's will not hesitate to continue taking out the Iranian leadership moving forward. Like the war in Iraq, and Afganistan, and Vietnam, etc... it is pretty hard to evaluate how the various parties have done in a war when we are three weeks in. We are still in the 'rah-rah' Disney phase of this war (for the US anyways). Edited March 20 by Viking
Xerxes Posted March 20 Posted March 20 (edited) The not so precision targeting of IDF. A 20 something year old Kurdish Iranian. Edited March 20 by Xerxes
73 Reds Posted March 20 Posted March 20 3 minutes ago, Viking said: It takes two to tango. If the US 'packed up today and left', yes, the bombing of Iran from the US might stop. What if Iran keeps the Straight of Hormuz closed? Iran would be idiots to open the straight without guarantees from US/Israeli's. My guess is the Israeli's will not hesitate to continue taking out the Iranian leadership moving forward. Like the war in Iraq, and Afganistan, and Vietnam, etc... it is pretty hard to evaluate how the various parties have done in a war when we are three weeks in. @Viking, if Iran then refused to let traffic through the Straight, perhaps the parties who need it most would get involved. If your point is that we should not have started this endeavor, I couldn't disagree more. Respectfully.
John Hjorth Posted March 20 Posted March 20 25 minutes ago, Parsad said: ... Even his parents reconsidered abortion after he grew up and became what he became! What a waste of space. ... Now that's really mean! -and then on a Friday and at Equinox!
Viking Posted March 20 Posted March 20 (edited) 9 minutes ago, 73 Reds said: @Viking, if Iran then refused to let traffic through the Straight, perhaps the parties who need it most would get involved. If your point is that we should not have started this endeavor, I couldn't disagree more. Respectfully. @73 Reds, I have no opinion today on if the war should have been started. I do not have enough information. Like why the US/Israeli's did what they did - we will find out when memoirs are written down the road. My point is we are in the very early stages (the '*uck around' part) - the fun part. The 'find out' part is coming - sometimes the not so fun part. All I am saying is I also have no idea how this is going to play out. Is it proper to characterize what the US/Israeli's have done so far as 'reckless'. Given every thing we have been told it certainly points in that direction to me. But I remain open minded. Again, we will only know with the passage of time. "*uck around and find out" (FAFO) is a slang phrase acting as a warning that reckless actions (*ucking around) will lead to severe consequences (finding out). It implies a direct relationship between irresponsible behavior and negative outcomes, acting as a "told-you-so" retort or a cautionary threat regarding natural consequences. Edited March 20 by Viking
cubsfan Posted March 20 Posted March 20 1 minute ago, Viking said: @73 Reds, I have no opinion today on if the war should have been started. I do not have enough information. Like why the US/Israeli's did what they did - we will find out when memoirs are written down the road. My point is we are in the very early stages (the '*uck around' part). The find out part is coming. And all I am saying is I also have no idea how this is going to play out. Is it proper to characterize what the US/Israeli's have done so far as 'reckless'. Given every thing we have been told it certainly points in that direction to me. But I remain open minded. Again, we will only know with the passage of time. "*uck around and find out" (FAFO) is a slang phrase acting as a warning that reckless actions (*ucking around) will lead to severe consequences (finding out). It implies a direct relationship between irresponsible behavior and negative outcomes, acting as a "told-you-so" retort or a cautionary threat regarding natural consequences. Amazing. "FAFO" is what Iran was saying to Israel and Trump while they negotiated. So obvious it backfired - but hey - most of them are dead now. "Oh, shit - looks like we made the wrong move!"
changegonnacome Posted March 20 Posted March 20 (edited) 2 hours ago, 73 Reds said: Good outcome: Iran's nuclear capabilities are set back for as long as possible. Better outcome: The present regime is ousted and the Iranian population chooses a new leader and government. Even better outcome: The new leaders and government are willing to work with both Arab States and the rest of the Free World to improve life for citizens of Iran. Start with the Abraham accords and trade relations outside oil with countries besides Russia and China and go from there. Agree with all that......guess the only overlay to each outcome is at what cost? Everything has a price in blood and treasure (directly borne and indirectly borne). How much are the people of the US and Israel willing to 'pay' directly for those outcomes? How much are the people of the world going to have to pay to get the US and Israel those outcomes? & finally because everybody acts like Iran has no agency and no cards left to play here when they clearly do. How much is Iran going to make the region & the world pay for each of those outcomes? My sense is your "Good Outcome" is the optimal 'price' adjusted outcome here for all. I think the US and Iran would likely walk away at this price/outcome level. The wrinkle IMO is quite understandably, from their perspective and with the bit between their teeth, Israel is going for your 'better' and 'even better' outcome. They are willing to bear themselves and inflict upon the world the highest of prices. Why wouldn't they? Iran is an existential threat to them - one could argue Israel's walk away price is close to infinity and thats the problem here IMO and it comes down to how well Trump's manages his leverage over Bibi when the time comes. Luckily for Trump....Bibi has upcoming elections and a pre-requisite for the Prime Minister of Israel is having the blessing (& security umbrella) of the sitting US President. This makes me somewhat optimistic that Trump, in this particular window, has more control of our 'partner' than is usual. Edited March 20 by changegonnacome
cubsfan Posted March 20 Posted March 20 4 minutes ago, Xerxes said: Hmmm someone is getting out That's strange,,, I thought Iran was in control of the war! LOL
73 Reds Posted March 20 Posted March 20 44 minutes ago, Viking said: @73 Reds, I have no opinion today on if the war should have been started. I do not have enough information. Like why the US/Israeli's did what they did - we will find out when memoirs are written down the road. My point is we are in the very early stages (the '*uck around' part) - the fun part. The 'find out' part is coming - sometimes the not so fun part. All I am saying is I also have no idea how this is going to play out. Is it proper to characterize what the US/Israeli's have done so far as 'reckless'. Given every thing we have been told it certainly points in that direction to me. But I remain open minded. Again, we will only know with the passage of time. "*uck around and find out" (FAFO) is a slang phrase acting as a warning that reckless actions (*ucking around) will lead to severe consequences (finding out). It implies a direct relationship between irresponsible behavior and negative outcomes, acting as a "told-you-so" retort or a cautionary threat regarding natural consequences. Again, I think it would have been reckless for us NOT to have gotten involved. Also keep in mind that Israel was going to act - with or without us.
John Hjorth Posted March 20 Posted March 20 48 minutes ago, Xerxes said: Hmmm someone is getting out Direction of the plane? [Yeah, it can turn, do u-turns, whatever ..., - anyway]
cubsfan Posted March 20 Posted March 20 Iran is hiring for all government positions. 4 More IRGC Generals killed today. No experience necessary.
Gregmal Posted March 20 Posted March 20 17 minutes ago, cubsfan said: Iran is hiring for all government positions. 4 More IRGC Generals killed today. No experience necessary. That’s what it looks like to be in control according to North American Liberals!
flesh Posted March 20 Posted March 20 24 minutes ago, cubsfan said: Iran is hiring for all government positions. 4 More IRGC Generals killed today. No experience necessary. Do I get 72 virgins?
ourkid8 Posted March 20 Posted March 20 (edited) 3 hours ago, rogermunibond said: NK has nukes and the world still seems pretty safe. I thought the whole point of MAGA was to have the rest of the world bear a fair share of that price? Not what I'm seeing now. Unfortunately you won’t see it until someone starts rooting out the pariah Zionists from the US. - the time will come as the every day Americans are getting sick of it. (similar to how Trump rooted out DEI) Edited March 20 by ourkid8
backtothebeach Posted March 20 Posted March 20 32 minutes ago, cubsfan said: Iran is hiring for all government positions. 4 More IRGC Generals killed today. No experience necessary. Serious question: Where do you guys go to get factual news about this war? Ideally a place that summarizes what happened, which side hit where, without any propaganda from either side. Ideally not x.com.
cubsfan Posted March 20 Posted March 20 2 minutes ago, backtothebeach said: Serious question: Where do you guys go to get factual news about this war? Ideally a place that summarizes what happened, which side hit where, without any propaganda from either side. Ideally not x.com. This Iranian guy is well ahead of much of the mainstream media with his contacts in Iran. Turns out almost everything I've heard from him is correct.
Gregmal Posted March 20 Posted March 20 11 minutes ago, backtothebeach said: Ideally not x.com. Well I’ll be damned! How about YouTube?
backtothebeach Posted March 20 Posted March 20 2 minutes ago, Gregmal said: Well I’ll be damned! How about YouTube? Almost impossible to dig through the Youtube clickbait unless you know who you are looking for. Ok, so x.com (I sometimes use xcancel to see a feed), do you have a couple that are worth following?
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