cubsfan Posted February 4 Posted February 4 21 minutes ago, flesh said: I think the birth rates and the ballooning costs of socialistic aspects of western govt's is all you need to know to know the west needs immigrants. Increasing birth rates seems to be an intractable problem, I have my thoughts why, but for example, in the countries where there is more money thrown at the problem, longer maternity/paternity leave, child care subsidies, etc, there's lower birth rates than those without and the declining trend remains. Implicit here is that the immigrants are adding value to society, net tax payers, in the USA this is only the top half of the country on average, obviously there's plenty of exception here. Also, second and third generations, in the past have generally improved on this metric. Increasingly what's being discussed is should we or should we not identify which immigrants bring the most value and target them. I don't see anything wrong with optimizing your immigration if you have the ability to do so. For example, one problem is if you only bring in low wage workers it brings down the wages of low wage workers, hurting those hurting most to varying degrees, making them more likely to be dependent on govt and creating the vicious cycle that is generational welfare. Therefore, ideally you'd bring in proportionate amounts of people at all socioeconomic stages thereby simply duplicating what already exists in your country and growing gdp and fed total tax revenue in kind. Also the age of immigrants, if they are old, on average they'll be less productive, if young, they'll contribute for decades. Shouldn't we target them them? If done advantageously, USA could assimilate maybe a couple million a year and spread them around the country. I can see reason in arguments for helping some that are hurting most however that doesn't mean you can't mostly focus on being pragmatic. 90/10 More controversially, if a country has an average IQ of 80, shouldn't you be more careful about who you're letting in? There are many countries like this, look it up. I think it'd be easy to include something like this in immigration requirements. You can look up videos of interviews with people who have 60-85 Iq's, it's quite shocking. For context: The U.S. military does not use traditional IQ tests, but requires a minimum score on the Armed Services Vocational Aptitude Battery (ASVAB), which functions similarly. Most branches require an Armed Forces Qualification Test (AFQT) percentile score of at least 31 for high school graduates, roughly equating to an IQ of 90–92 or above. Key Requirements and Information: The "83" Rule: Research indicates that, for the most part, the military does not accept individuals with an IQ below approximately 83, as this was found to be the minimum level required to train for tasks. ASVAB vs. IQ: The ASVAB is highly correlated with intelligence tests (approx. 0.8 correlation). Minimum Score (AFQT): A minimum score of 31 is generally required for the Army and Navy. Other branches may have higher standards (e.g., 36 for Air Force, 32 for Marine Corps). Exceptions: Applicants with a GED may require a minimum score of 50. In some cases, the Department of Defense can accept individuals with scores as low as the 10th percentile, which roughly translates to an IQ of 83 Contextual Factors: Recruit Quality: The military generally selects from the top two-thirds of the population, excluding the bottom third of test-takers. Officers: Officers must meet much higher standards and typically take the AFOQT instead of the ASVAB. Alternatives: If an applicant scores between 21 and 30, they may be eligible for the Future Soldier Preparatory Course to improve their score. I'm definitely all for LEGAL immigration - with the right to reject candidates that are not suitable for eventual citizenship. There are many, many people that would love to come to this country LEGALLY. The USA has a right to be selective as to who this privilege is granted. Strong secure borders are the #1 safeguard. Deportation of illegal immigrants, especially criminals is the #2 safeguard. Open borders have been a disaster - everyone knows it.
Gregmal Posted February 4 Posted February 4 The clip of Scott Bessent laying the smack down on that stupid bitch from California was great.
cwericb Posted February 4 Posted February 4 3 hours ago, Mephistopheles said: This is hilarious. Why not just avoid the thread if one isn't interested in politics? Yes. And it is usually the most prolific posters on the right who complain. Is it because it must be embarrassing trying to defend Trump all the time?
Mephistopheles Posted February 4 Posted February 4 There's open borders, there's common sense immigration policy, and then there's fascism (see clip). P.S. - remember when Bannon defrauded a whole bunch of Trump supporters over supposed "border wall funding" and Trump then pardoned him?
cubsfan Posted February 4 Posted February 4 27 minutes ago, Mephistopheles said: There's open borders, there's common sense immigration policy, and then there's fascism (see clip). P.S. - remember when Bannon defrauded a whole bunch of Trump supporters over supposed "border wall funding" and Trump then pardoned him? You forgot the punchline: Why would an illegal alien go to the voting booth? To cheat of course. Sorry, no more of that if Trump gets his way.
Mephistopheles Posted February 4 Posted February 4 7 minutes ago, cubsfan said: You forgot the punchline: Why would an illegal alien go to the voting booth? To cheat of course. Sorry, no more of that if Trump gets his way. There are close to zero instances of voter fraud, but why should facts get in the way of brainwashed fanaticism! Also, it's crazy how the cult is still litigating the 2020 election. Apparently Biden/Harris stole the 2020 election when Trump was in power but were too stupid to do the same in 2024 when they were in power. Lol
cubsfan Posted February 4 Posted February 4 1 minute ago, Mephistopheles said: There are close to zero instances of voter fraud, but why should facts get in the way of brainwashed fanaticism! Also, it's crazy how the cult is still litigating the 2020 election. Apparently Biden/Harris stole the 2020 election when Trump was in power but were too stupid to do the same in 2024 when they were in power. Lol We know that is bullshit. Why would you care about ICE at voting booths? You want your cheating to continue of course.
LC Posted February 4 Posted February 4 3 minutes ago, cubsfan said: Why would you care about ICE at voting booths? Why would you care about Americans being shot in the back 10 times?
Parsad Posted February 4 Posted February 4 2 minutes ago, cubsfan said: We know that is bullshit. Why would you care about ICE at voting booths? You want your cheating to continue of course. There was very minimal voter fraud...not enough to even come close to changing the outcome in 2020. What MAGA wants to do is ban mail in votes, because the majority of out of country voters are Dems. What happened to how faulty and fraudulent the voting machines were? Once they sued, everyone shut up, including Trump, because he knows there was no fraud...and the machines work! And what makes me laugh the most is...if there was fraud in 2020, then don't you think the Dems would be smart enough to beat Trump again in 2024? They used the same fucking machines and the same mail in voting system! Geez! Why do you think Trump is doing everything he can to redraw voting districts, ban mail in votes, demand identification at voting centers (even though they are confirmed subsequently), pull funding from Blue states and create chaos where there is none to try and win people to his side? He has to steal the vote to get MAGA re-elected in 2028! Cheers!
Mephistopheles Posted February 4 Posted February 4 8 minutes ago, LC said: Why would you care about Americans being shot in the back 10 times? lol! "Why won't you let the cop search your car/home if you have nothing to hide?"
cubsfan Posted February 4 Posted February 4 9 minutes ago, Parsad said: There was very minimal voter fraud...not enough to even come close to changing the outcome in 2020. What MAGA wants to do is ban mail in votes, because the majority of out of country voters are Dems. What happened to how faulty and fraudulent the voting machines were? Once they sued, everyone shut up, including Trump, because he knows there was no fraud...and the machines work! And what makes me laugh the most is...if there was fraud in 2020, then don't you think the Dems would be smart enough to beat Trump again in 2024? They used the same fucking machines and the same mail in voting system! Geez! Why do you think Trump is doing everything he can to redraw voting districts, ban mail in votes, demand identification at voting centers (even though they are confirmed subsequently), pull funding from Blue states and create chaos where there is none to try and win people to his side? He has to steal the vote to get MAGA re-elected in 2028! Cheers! He doesn't need to get re-elected. He will declare himself Dictator for Life - then we win!
Spekulatius Posted February 5 Posted February 5 On 2/2/2026 at 8:37 AM, Dalal.Holdings said: Now we'll get to hear more from AOC+Mamdani and maybe Lina Khan comes back someday too. Remember, no crying in the casino. LOL. Made my day.
Parsad Posted February 5 Posted February 5 Maybe Trump should have the DOJ investigate how "Melania" managed nearly $10M in ticket sales in the U.S. and less than $100K globally! https://www.boxofficemojo.com/release/rl4287397889/?ref_=bo_we_table_3 Or how "Melania" had a critic score lower than Gigli, but audience score greater than "The Godfather"! https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/melania Not to mention how she was paid $28M for the "documentary"...but it isn't considered a bribe or reportable as most of it was shot during the runup to Trump's re-election. MAGA really does know what is fraud and what is not! Cheers!
Luke Posted February 5 Posted February 5 12 hours ago, cubsfan said: He doesn't need to get re-elected. He will declare himself Dictator for Life - then we win! Alright - we all understood you enjoy fascism. Only problem will be that once your rights are slowly stripped away they will also come for your rights and then you will end up in an oligarchy where also our "native americans" like @cubsfan (lol) will suffer...
Castanza Posted February 5 Posted February 5 On 2/3/2026 at 4:29 PM, LC said: They've invested so much emotional capital into Trump/MAGA etc. that they can't back out now. It's literally watching the 'sunk cost' fallacy in real time. Spot on....I know quite a few people who cling to Trump 1.0 ignoring the musings of Trump 2.0. Trump is rapidly becoming if not already a Fascist leader. One would think on an investment forum that individuals would be able to pivot....I guess this highlights the blinders everyone bears and the subjective context in which choose to don them. I voted for Trump in his first term and largely have no major qualms with the results of the term outside of the final year. Barring covid, I think most reasonable individuals could find many favorable outcomes (and some negatives). I did not vote for him in the next two elections as I recognized the changes in his appetite for power. To be fair, I do not blame individuals for choosing to vote Trump over Biden nor Trump over Kamala...the political field was dogshit and anyone grandstanding on their vote for the opposing party is standing on thin ground. The below podcast (Sam Harris) and the article discussed ("Yes, It's Fascism" by Jonathan Rauch) are well worth the time. https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/456-american-fascism/id733163012?i=1000748249740 https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/2026/01/america-fascism-trump-maga-ice/685751/ @cubsfan Do you reject the below definition? This doesn't even touch on the blatant abuse of powers for personal gain to the tune of 1-3B. See (Vietnam resort in exchange of tariffs amendments) Fascism - Ultra Nationalist, anti liberal political project organized around a promise of national rebirth, a cleansing restoration after a story of humiliation and decay. It rejects pluralism as a sham, treats opposition as an enemy rather than a rival; and elevates coercion often outright elevates violence as morally necessary to purge internal traders and reassert collective greatness. In it's mature form it becomes a leader centered mass movement that fuses with the state corrodes neutral institutions and renders general political competition impossible.
cubsfan Posted February 5 Posted February 5 1 hour ago, Castanza said: Spot on....I know quite a few people who cling to Trump 1.0 ignoring the musings of Trump 2.0. Trump is rapidly becoming if not already a Fascist leader. One would think on an investment forum that individuals would be able to pivot....I guess this highlights the blinders everyone bears and the subjective context in which choose to don them. I voted for Trump in his first term and largely have no major qualms with the results of the term outside of the final year. Barring covid, I think most reasonable individuals could find many favorable outcomes (and some negatives). I did not vote for him in the next two elections as I recognized the changes in his appetite for power. To be fair, I do not blame individuals for choosing to vote Trump over Biden nor Trump over Kamala...the political field was dogshit and anyone grandstanding on their vote for the opposing party is standing on thin ground. The below podcast (Sam Harris) and the article discussed ("Yes, It's Fascism" by Jonathan Rauch) are well worth the time. https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/456-american-fascism/id733163012?i=1000748249740 https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/2026/01/america-fascism-trump-maga-ice/685751/ @cubsfan Do you reject the below definition? This doesn't even touch on the blatant abuse of powers for personal gain to the tune of 1-3B. See (Vietnam resort in exchange of tariffs amendments) Fascism - Ultra Nationalist, anti liberal political project organized around a promise of national rebirth, a cleansing restoration after a story of humiliation and decay. It rejects pluralism as a sham, treats opposition as an enemy rather than a rival; and elevates coercion often outright elevates violence as morally necessary to purge internal traders and reassert collective greatness. In it's mature form it becomes a leader centered mass movement that fuses with the state corrodes neutral institutions and renders general political competition impossible. Lots of pretty words there @Castanza Racist, fascist, bigot - whatever you say. Crime down huge, border secure, no more castrating kids unless you want to be sued. The list of positives is huge - he's the right President for the right time. I call it populism.
Castanza Posted February 5 Posted February 5 5 minutes ago, cubsfan said: Lots of pretty words there @Castanza Racist, fascist, bigot - whatever you say. Crime down huge, border secure, no more castrating kids unless you want to be sued. The list of positives is huge - he's the right President for the right time. I call it populism. Lots of pretty words there @Castanza Thanks Racist, fascist, bigot - whatever you say. You said those not me... Crime down huge, border secure. Civilian crime* .... I'm sure the SS didn't commit crime when Hitler was in power either.... no more castrating kids unless you want to be sued. Good - yet I'm not sure Trumps unhinged political crusade of the entire gambit is what was needed to accomplish this. The list of positives is huge List just 10 for me and then let me know how bringing the USA the closest it's ever been to the brink of full blown fascism is an acceptable tradeoff. he's the right President for the right time. I would agree for the first term he served. I call it populism Ignorance is bliss....we are well beyond populism
Gregmal Posted February 5 Posted February 5 They dont realize it's largely just reaping what theyve sown....As was mentioned earlier in the thread, they've made a lot of these words utterly meaningless because they lied constantly and overused the heck out of most of them. They called EVERYONE racists and Nazis and now....those terms are devalued in terms of potency. Similar now to how theyve begun declaring that ANYONE they dont like who's ever been in the same room as Jeffrey Epstein is "besties with a pedophile".....it's almost as if theyre trying to get the reactions theyve gotten from the Trump clan. Cuz everything they do just feeds into what has worked for him....
Libs Posted February 5 Posted February 5 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Gregmal said: They dont realize it's largely just reaping what theyve sown....As was mentioned earlier in the thread, they've made a lot of these words utterly meaningless because they lied constantly and overused the heck out of most of them. They called EVERYONE racists and Nazis and now....those terms are devalued in terms of potency. Similar now to how theyve begun declaring that ANYONE they dont like who's ever been in the same room as Jeffrey Epstein is "besties with a pedophile".....it's almost as if theyre trying to get the reactions theyve gotten from the Trump clan. Cuz everything they do just feeds into what has worked for him.... Yep, and now they've devalued the term 'fascism' as well. Its's bizarre. As if the 'No Kings' marches and the Minnesota stuff could ever happen in a fascist country. These people would be squashed like bugs. There's plenty about Trump to loathe- no disagreement there. But the overreach is continuous, and obnoxious. Edited February 5 by Libs
cubsfan Posted February 5 Posted February 5 4 minutes ago, Gregmal said: They dont realize it's largely just reaping what theyve sown....As was mentioned earlier in the thread, they've made a lot of these words utterly meaningless because they lied constantly and overused the heck out of most of them. They called EVERYONE racists and Nazis and now....those terms are devalued in terms of potency. Similar now to how theyve begun declaring that ANYONE they dont like who's ever been in the same room as Jeffrey Epstein is "besties with a pedophile".....it's almost as if theyre trying to get the reactions theyve gotten from the Trump clan. Cuz everything they do just feeds into what has worked for him.... Definitely. @Castanza reminded me that POTUS is a NAZI too. I plumb forgot!
Gregmal Posted February 5 Posted February 5 1 minute ago, Libs said: Yep, and now they've devalued the term 'fascism' as well. Its's bizarre. As if the 'No Kings' marches and the Minnesota stuff could ever happen in a fascist country. These people would be squashed like bugs. There's plenty about Trump to loathe- no disagreement there. But the overreach is continuous, and obnoxious. Yup. So now we just point and laugh at their anguish LOL
Libs Posted February 5 Posted February 5 7 minutes ago, Gregmal said: Yup. So now we just point and laugh at their anguish LOL Not me. I fear what the left will do when they get back in power. As an example of what we face here in CA, even though it should be obvious to any clear-thinking person that the CA wealth tax would be stupid and self-destructive- we may very well get it on the ballot and pass it. Silicon Valley pays 35% of CA's taxes. So let's drive them out! A recent poll said 52% of those polled who understood the likely economic impacts of the tax STILL SUPPORT IT. It's the same mentality attached to climate change- let's crush the economy even though it won't help (thanks to China's emissions). Greg I may have to move to JOE territory after all!
Sweet Posted February 5 Posted February 5 13 minutes ago, Gregmal said: They dont realize it's largely just reaping what theyve sown....As was mentioned earlier in the thread, they've made a lot of these words utterly meaningless because they lied constantly and overused the heck out of most of them. They called EVERYONE racists and Nazis and now....those terms are devalued in terms of potency. Similar now to how theyve begun declaring that ANYONE they dont like who's ever been in the same room as Jeffrey Epstein is "besties with a pedophile".....it's almost as if theyre trying to get the reactions theyve gotten from the Trump clan. Cuz everything they do just feeds into what has worked for him.... 100%. I’m definitely past the point of caring about these labels. Views which would have been centrist 20 years ago - control migration, preserve culture, little bit of patriotism - was a fascist, racist etc. There are genuine criticisms about Trumps actions and behaviours, and more generally about some of the people on the political ‘right’. However, if the same people screaming fascism and racism constantly for 15 years think they are the ones the deliver this lecture they can swivel on it.
Castanza Posted February 5 Posted February 5 (edited) 1 hour ago, Gregmal said: They dont realize it's largely just reaping what theyve sown....As was mentioned earlier in the thread, they've made a lot of these words utterly meaningless because they lied constantly and overused the heck out of most of them. They called EVERYONE racists and Nazis and now....those terms are devalued in terms of potency. Similar now to how theyve begun declaring that ANYONE they dont like who's ever been in the same room as Jeffrey Epstein is "besties with a pedophile".....it's almost as if theyre trying to get the reactions theyve gotten from the Trump clan. Cuz everything they do just feeds into what has worked for him.... Sure I don't disagree....However on the flip side of this you've had how many conservative politicians and talking heads excusing POTUS remarks as just "Trump speech" that shouldn't be taken serious. It was easy to buy and easy to excuse....remind you Hitler and Mussolini were both seen a buffoons in their early years of campaign and office who shouldn't have been taken seriously....I mean it's right out of the fascist playbook. Mein Kampf: "It doesn't matter if they laugh at us or ridicule us. All that matters is they can't stop thinking about us." Trump is a master of this no doubt, which has lead to some of the "boy cries wolf" point you framed. However I don't think it's wise to lose track of the game we are in...A spade is still a spade and I think it's undeniable that Trump has permanently introduced this new flavor of fascism into American politics. My concern is beyond Trump....How does American pivot from this course? An authoritarian left leaning electorate that dismantles the Trump legacy through similar means? Where does MAGA go? Trump has patented a deck of political cards that EVERY conservative politician will have to pick from and play in order to gain favor from the MAGA faithful which is what at a minimum 50% of the conservative party voter base? To summarize, Trump has ushered in a new era of American Politics and the floor for election is much higher up the radical political ideology ladder than I and many are comfortable with. Be careful what you wish for....The durability of American institutions is being tested... Edited February 5 by Castanza
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