How old are you?

[tede02]

On 5/7/2024 at 12:44 PM, rkbabang said:

 

 

You could be right, now that I think about it.  He made a lot on the Fairfax options, but the BAC leaps could have been the BIG one.  I don't remember.

 

 

Yeah, I always think about this and the Cornwall Capital guys. I missed an opportunity in November 2022 when Facebook was bombed out. I knew it was cheap. Had a limit order on leaps placed near the bottom that never hit. Wasn't tryting to go all in or anything but it would have been a multi-bagger in short order. That one still smarts! 

 

Did good on the equity directly but sold too early! 

Edited May 10 by tede02

[ValueArb]

When I was 57 I had surgery to compensate for a torn tendon in my right ankle and caused it to deteriorate over 30 years, giving me plantar fasciitis and pronating enough to make it impossible to run any more. 

 

When I was 58 I had my left hip replaced, probably because it wore heavily due to the asymmetry caused by that missing tendon.

 

When I was 59 I was 40 lbs over weight because of a decade of poor diet, combined with increasing sedentary lifestyle  from work, divorce, and that bad ankle. I sometimes found myself wheezing when I walked, which was incredibly scary during COVID, and unfathomable to me given I was a college athlete (practice dummy) on a national championship wrestling team, rode as much as a hundred miles a day in the off season, and after college ran 40 miles a month, half marathons, etc until my late 40s. 

 

Today I'm 60 and have to take THC edibles to sleep through the night because of the pain of a (presumably) torn rotator cuff in my shoulder.  But I've lost 33 lbs doing hot yoga almost every day for the last 15 months, along with some improvements to my diet. And I got on a weight lifting program this year (along with TRT) which has increased my muscle mass noticeably, even though every morning I wake up with an aching shoulder, and I have to skip some exercises (haven't bench pressed in months) because of the pain. I have an MRI next week, hoping there is an easy arthroscopic fix because shoulder replacement is way harder and rehab takes far longer than hip replacement.

 

The lesson I wished I had learned before this is that I can't get back all those days I woke up healthy and skipped my run or workout, and ate whatever I wanted. Instead I was forced to put myself through incredibly hard workouts and food choices for over a year just to get back close (but not there) to where my health should have been naturally. Maintenance is so much easier than undoing a decade of bad choices. So my advice to others is, don't take health for granted. Every day I'm grateful that I'm still healthy enough and the pain is not so great that I can still push through it enough to slowly improve my fitness, even if its nowhere near as easy or fast as it was when I was younger.

 

One of my yoga buddies and me talked about the need to stay ahead of the curve, and how Charlie Munger proactively moved to walkers/wheelchairs to avoid the falls that commonly rapidly accelerate our declines in our last years of life.  I am witnessing what can happen in stark terms today.  Our best dog ever who would turn 12 this summer and was so active and energetic that people thought she was half her age. Three weeks ago she yelped from pain jumping out of the car and it started a downward spiral to where now her back legs are so weak she needs my help to stand, and all she can do is rest all day. I'm in $2,500 into tests and x-rays without a clear diagnoses or treatment plan for recovery, and on the cusp of the decision whether to put her down or not today.

 

So my advice to everyone is, stay active even if you don't feel like it. Find something you like, or can tolerate, enough to do regularly. If you can't/won't run, then swim or bike or go to fitness classes, or take up weight lifting. Or just go for long walks or take up hiking. Podcasts can make long workouts more tolerable, but they are also useful times to meditate on your day and your life and think more deeply and clearly. Find and create your own healthy habits that can last you a lifetime so when the inevitable setbacks occur, your body is stronger and more ready to help you recover from them. Because it's the setback we can't recover from that is often the cause of our end.

[Luke]

7 minutes ago, ValueArb said:

When I was 57 I had surgery to compensate for a torn tendon in my right ankle and caused it to deteriorate over 30 years, giving me plantar fasciitis and pronating enough to make it impossible to run any more. 

 

When I was 58 I had my left hip replaced, probably because it wore heavily due to the asymmetry caused by that missing tendon.

 

When I was 59 I was 40 lbs over weight because of a decade of poor diet, combined with increasing sedentary lifestyle  from work, divorce, and that bad ankle. I sometimes found myself wheezing when I walked, which was incredibly scary during COVID, and unfathomable to me given I was a college athlete (practice dummy) on a national championship wrestling team, rode as much as a hundred miles a day in the off season, and after college ran 40 miles a month, half marathons, etc until my late 40s. 

 

Today I'm 60 and have to take THC edibles to sleep through the night because of the pain of a (presumably) torn rotator cuff in my shoulder.  But I've lost 33 lbs doing hot yoga almost every day for the last 15 months, along with some improvements to my diet. And I got on a weight lifting program this year (along with TRT) which has increased my muscle mass noticeably, even though every morning I wake up with an aching shoulder, and I have to skip some exercises (haven't bench pressed in months) because of the pain. I have an MRI next week, hoping there is an easy arthroscopic fix because shoulder replacement is way harder and rehab takes far longer than hip replacement.

 

The lesson I wished I had learned before this is that I can't get back all those days I woke up healthy and skipped my run or workout, and ate whatever I wanted. Instead I was forced to put myself through incredibly hard workouts and food choices for over a year just to get back close (but not there) to where my health should have been naturally. Maintenance is so much easier than undoing a decade of bad choices. So my advice to others is, don't take health for granted. Every day I'm grateful that I'm still healthy enough and the pain is not so great that I can still push through it enough to slowly improve my fitness, even if its nowhere near as easy or fast as it was when I was younger.

 

One of my yoga buddies and me talked about the need to stay ahead of the curve, and how Charlie Munger proactively moved to walkers/wheelchairs to avoid the falls that commonly rapidly accelerate our declines in our last years of life.  I am witnessing what can happen in stark terms today.  Our best dog ever who would turn 12 this summer and was so active and energetic that people thought she was half her age. Three weeks ago she yelped from pain jumping out of the car and it started a downward spiral to where now her back legs are so weak she needs my help to stand, and all she can do is rest all day. I'm in $2,500 into tests and x-rays without a clear diagnoses or treatment plan for recovery, and on the cusp of the decision whether to put her down or not today.

 

So my advice to everyone is, stay active even if you don't feel like it. Find something you like, or can tolerate, enough to do regularly. If you can't/won't run, then swim or bike or go to fitness classes, or take up weight lifting. Or just go for long walks or take up hiking. Podcasts can make long workouts more tolerable, but they are also useful times to meditate on your day and your life and think more deeply and clearly. Find and create your own healthy habits that can last you a lifetime so when the inevitable setbacks occur, your body is stronger and more ready to help you recover from them. Because it's the setback we can't recover from that is often the cause of our end.

Thank you for sharing and i should do more exercise! All the best!

Edited May 10 by Luca

[ValueArb]

2 minutes ago, Luca said:

Thank you for sharing and i should do more exercise! All the best!

 

Thanks!

 

And just in case anyone reading that thinks that I'm depressed or anything, I'm not. I feel better about myself now than I have in years, the shoulder pain is just a bump on the road for me. I am very sad about my dog, but optimistic about both getting healthier and maintaining my fitness for as long as I have left. Two years ago I was depressed to the point that I wondered if I would see 60 or if I even cared to, and I'm very glad to have shaken that awful mindset.

[cubsfan]

48 minutes ago, ValueArb said:

 

Thanks!

 

And just in case anyone reading that thinks that I'm depressed or anything, I'm not. I feel better about myself now than I have in years, the shoulder pain is just a bump on the road for me. I am very sad about my dog, but optimistic about both getting healthier and maintaining my fitness for as long as I have left. Two years ago I was depressed to the point that I wondered if I would see 60 or if I even cared to, and I'm very glad to have shaken that awful mindset.

 

Great stuff @ValueArb -- at this point, what mostly matters is health and strength in general.

 

I have gone through the exact journey. After being extremely unhealthy for many years due to work - no sleep, too much alcohol, smoking, eating like shit, stress - everything has changed.

 

Just turned 70, and I'm way healthier (and happier) than in my late 40's. Never been stronger.

 

Know that you can turn all of this around with the right program and some discipline.

The human body has amazing regeneration capabilities.

[boilermaker75]

I just turned 71. Advice I can give to you youngsters is use it or loose it,

 

https://www.bettermovement.org/blog/2012/use-or-lose-looks-like

 

I still do Tae Kwon Do, among many other physical activities, and I can still kick above my head. 

 

Keep active mentally. I can't imagine ever retiring. I just published a book last July and this past academic year I taught a new course I created that has nothing to do with electrical engineering, my main field.

[dealraker]

Being a month from 70 I am physically active and capable.  But age is more than a number and I'm constantly grinding through health issues as are most at my age.  I have no suggestions for others dealing with aging other than Mungers "soldier on" without complaint.  And maybe be thankful for today's medical technology.

Edited May 11 by dealraker

[james22]

 

 

[rkbabang]

21 hours ago, ValueArb said:

 

Thanks!

 

And just in case anyone reading that thinks that I'm depressed or anything, I'm not. I feel better about myself now than I have in years, the shoulder pain is just a bump on the road for me. I am very sad about my dog, but optimistic about both getting healthier and maintaining my fitness for as long as I have left. Two years ago I was depressed to the point that I wondered if I would see 60 or if I even cared to, and I'm very glad to have shaken that awful mindset.

Thanks for these posts, they are very helpful.  I’m just a little younger than you (51) and by the end of last year was letting myself get obese again.  I’ve lost just over 40 lbs since Christmas but have been a little discouraged the last 2 weeks because I bruised and fractured a couple of ribs doing a home project and have had to stop any workouts except walking.  I’m going to get back to lifting weights and my rowing machine again as soon as I can. The Dr said at least 6 weeks. Staying motivated to stay in shape isn’t always easy and getting older isn’t always fun. 

[DooDiligence]

On 5/10/2024 at 11:48 AM, ValueArb said:

When I was 57 I had surgery to compensate for a torn tendon in my right ankle and caused it to deteriorate over 30 years, giving me plantar fasciitis and pronating enough to make it impossible to run any more. 

 

When I was 58 I had my left hip replaced, probably because it wore heavily due to the asymmetry caused by that missing tendon.

 

When I was 59 I was 40 lbs over weight because of a decade of poor diet, combined with increasing sedentary lifestyle  from work, divorce, and that bad ankle. I sometimes found myself wheezing when I walked, which was incredibly scary during COVID, and unfathomable to me given I was a college athlete (practice dummy) on a national championship wrestling team, rode as much as a hundred miles a day in the off season, and after college ran 40 miles a month, half marathons, etc until my late 40s. 

 

Today I'm 60 and have to take THC edibles to sleep through the night because of the pain of a (presumably) torn rotator cuff in my shoulder.  But I've lost 33 lbs doing hot yoga almost every day for the last 15 months, along with some improvements to my diet. And I got on a weight lifting program this year (along with TRT) which has increased my muscle mass noticeably, even though every morning I wake up with an aching shoulder, and I have to skip some exercises (haven't bench pressed in months) because of the pain. I have an MRI next week, hoping there is an easy arthroscopic fix because shoulder replacement is way harder and rehab takes far longer than hip replacement.

 

The lesson I wished I had learned before this is that I can't get back all those days I woke up healthy and skipped my run or workout, and ate whatever I wanted. Instead I was forced to put myself through incredibly hard workouts and food choices for over a year just to get back close (but not there) to where my health should have been naturally. Maintenance is so much easier than undoing a decade of bad choices. So my advice to others is, don't take health for granted. Every day I'm grateful that I'm still healthy enough and the pain is not so great that I can still push through it enough to slowly improve my fitness, even if its nowhere near as easy or fast as it was when I was younger.

 

One of my yoga buddies and me talked about the need to stay ahead of the curve, and how Charlie Munger proactively moved to walkers/wheelchairs to avoid the falls that commonly rapidly accelerate our declines in our last years of life.  I am witnessing what can happen in stark terms today.  Our best dog ever who would turn 12 this summer and was so active and energetic that people thought she was half her age. Three weeks ago she yelped from pain jumping out of the car and it started a downward spiral to where now her back legs are so weak she needs my help to stand, and all she can do is rest all day. I'm in $2,500 into tests and x-rays without a clear diagnoses or treatment plan for recovery, and on the cusp of the decision whether to put her down or not today.

 

So my advice to everyone is, stay active even if you don't feel like it. Find something you like, or can tolerate, enough to do regularly. If you can't/won't run, then swim or bike or go to fitness classes, or take up weight lifting. Or just go for long walks or take up hiking. Podcasts can make long workouts more tolerable, but they are also useful times to meditate on your day and your life and think more deeply and clearly. Find and create your own healthy habits that can last you a lifetime so when the inevitable setbacks occur, your body is stronger and more ready to help you recover from them. Because it's the setback we can't recover from that is often the cause of our end.

 

Nothing like yoga to teach you what you can and can't do, as well as how to restrain yourself from going deep into what you shouldn't. Learning to breathe into the daily motions of life, outside the classroom, has been a mini-epiphany for me. I made a New Years resolution (when I started yoga), to stop grunting whenever I get in and out of a chair, the truck, whatever. I now find that when I drop something (and I do it more frequently with age), I look at it as an opportunity to stretch (and there's no grunting). A little mindfulness goes a long ways.

 

A handful of us get to the Y 20 or 30 minutes before classes and we've never discussed politics (seriously, never in nearly 6 months). I have no idea how any of my yoga buddies and buddiette's vote and they don't know my choices either. We all like each other nonetheless.

 

On another subject, I really enjoy your writing / thoughts on businesses and other stuff.

[james22]

On 5/6/2024 at 6:33 PM, james22 said:

 

 

https://www.amazon.com/Happiness-Curve-Life-Better-After/dp/1250078806

 

Across a variety of datasets and measures, the finding of a midlife low has been consistently replicated. The U-shape has been apparent across a whole range of well-being metrics, including life satisfaction, financial satisfaction, worthwhileness, and happiness. Every U.S. state had a U-shape.

 

But not anymore.

 

Now, young adults (on average) are the least happy people. Unhappiness now declines with age, and happiness now rises with age–and this change seems to have started around 2017. The prime-age are happier than the young.

 

https://www.interdependence.org/blog/the-global-loss-of-the-u-shaped-curve-of-happiness/

 

Social media is tough.

[Paarslaars]

Yeah social media constantly confronts you with other peoples succes but not their struggles so a lot of young people constantly feel like they need to achieve more.

[rkbabang]

I would also say school has gotten worse for children as well.  My kids had a much tougher time in school than I did.  In high school I was able to skip school when I felt like it, leave during the day and come back when I felt like it.  We had a smoking area in my high school, where tobacco and things other than tobacco was frequently smoked.   I had very little homework.  An hour per day was a bad day.  My kids were in buildings locked down like prisons, they couldn't leave, the school would contact us immediately if they didn't show up.  Their homework load was insane.  I am very happy I grew up when I did.  I had it much easier than my children did.

 

[Gregmal]

1 minute ago, rkbabang said:

I would also say school has gotten worse for children as well.  My kids had a much tougher time in school than I did.  In high school I was able to skip school when I felt like it, leave during the day and come back when I felt like it.  We had a smoking area in my high school, where tobacco and things other than tobacco was frequently smoked.   I had very little homework.  An hour per day was a bad day.  My kids were in buildings locked down like prisons, they couldn't leave, the school would contact us immediately if they didn't show up.  Their homework load was insane.  I am very happy I grew up when I did.  I had it much easier than my children did.

 

Yup. When the liberals hand government more power, less freedoms for everyone is the result. I used to walk home from school. Now as a parent I have to arrive 45 minutes early just to get a parking spot and wait in line to sign out my kids. 

[nsx5200]

The type of material that they stuff into the education is absurd as well.  When was the last time you needed to know the different mechanism that cell uses to store and use energy, along with all the nomenclature?  They force them to memorize these niche information that are useless outside of the intended field, and use the result to rank the kids.  Big picture-wise, it's important to know the ideas like scientific method, math up to at least Algebra, etc... At some point, they might as well use something arbitrary like peeing contest to rank the kids (although, the female would be disadvantaged).

[73 Reds]

15 minutes ago, Gregmal said:

Yup. When the liberals hand government more power, less freedoms for everyone is the result. I used to walk home from school. Now as a parent I have to arrive 45 minutes early just to get a parking spot and wait in line to sign out my kids. 

Wait till your kids get into college.  You may have to deprogram them after they complete their coursework.  My kids would sit in class and just shake their heads at some of the nonsense being thrown at them.  I seriously question the value of a liberal arts degree today and would like to think that if it were me, I'd opt for trade school.  

[Gregmal]

6 minutes ago, 73 Reds said:

Wait till your kids get into college.  You may have to deprogram them after they complete their coursework.  My kids would sit in class and just shake their heads at some of the nonsense being thrown at them.  I seriously question the value of a liberal arts degree today and would like to think that if it were me, I'd opt for trade school.  

Yup. Wife and I have already had these thoughts. Generally speaking, the types of jobs such as electricians, plumbers, nurses, etc, can made great livings while having mobility and a degree of independence. Without the $100k+ of government/parental assistance needed to become an accountant or similar desk jockey type job. 
 

My middle brother is a white coat doctor. He’s in his mid 30s. Has 6 figures of debt. Lives with mom and dad. Just wasted 10 years in the school and residency programs. 
 

All over, top to bottom, I’m seeing little evidence that there’s material value to the higher education system relative to what it costs. 

[Paarslaars]

39 minutes ago, nsx5200 said:

The type of material that they stuff into the education is absurd as well.  When was the last time you needed to know the different mechanism that cell uses to store and use energy, along with all the nomenclature?  They force them to memorize these niche information that are useless outside of the intended field, and use the result to rank the kids.  Big picture-wise, it's important to know the ideas like scientific method, math up to at least Algebra, etc... At some point, they might as well use something arbitrary like peeing contest to rank the kids (although, the female would be disadvantaged).

How else would you know that the mitochondria is the powerhouse of the cell?

[LC]

10 minutes ago, Gregmal said:

My middle brother is a white coat doctor. He’s in his mid 30s. Has 6 figures of debt. Lives with mom and dad. Just wasted 10 years in the school and residency programs. 

 

Not sure what flavor of MD but doctors have some of the best prospects amongst the professions - from great financing deals (my ex was getting offers 0% down market rate 30 year mortgage deals), the ability to write off so many "expenses", inflation+ pricing power... doctors complain about having 300k in student debt but tell me what other profession can buy a home, have 2 nice cars 2 well educated kids, great financing and retirement options available, all while easily handling 300k of personal debt? 

 

And they can pick up and move somewhere anywhere to hit some untapped demand, start a practice, and rake it in. I know a guy who was an ER doc, started an urgent care in a mountain town - bought the building, eventually sold the urgent care biz to a University...rakes in 50K+/month just leasing the building to his old business. 

 

A doctor with a business mind can do really well in this country. 

 

I think also the situation around tradesmen is not as great as it was 2 years ago. It's still possible to do well but simply less real estate activity is naturally going to dampen activity for builds & renovations.

[73 Reds]

10 minutes ago, Gregmal said:

Yup. Wife and I have already had these thoughts. Generally speaking, the types of jobs such as electricians, plumbers, nurses, etc, can made great livings while having mobility and a degree of independence. Without the $100k+ of government/parental assistance needed to become an accountant or similar desk jockey type job. 
 

My middle brother is a white coat doctor. He’s in his mid 30s. Has 6 figures of debt. Lives with mom and dad. Just wasted 10 years in the school and residency programs. 
 

All over, top to bottom, I’m seeing little evidence that there’s material value to the higher education system relative to what it costs. 

There is value to the college experience if, going in, kids understand that they are there to learn a skillset or prepare for whatever further education is necessary to ultimately make a living.  I gave my kids the option of going anywhere they wanted with that understanding in mind.  They chose expensive private schools but to their credit they worked all through school and used their work experience to go on to successful careers.  Funny you mention accounting; I hated accounting in college (nearly flunked) and didn't realize until later on how important fundamental accounting is to investing.  I insisted that my kids take at least one accounting class and they did better than their dad. 

[Paarslaars]

1 minute ago, LC said:

 

Not sure what flavor of MD but doctors have some of the best prospects amongst the professions - from great financing deals (my ex was getting offers 0% down market rate 30 year mortgage deals), the ability to write off so many "expenses", inflation+ pricing power... doctors complain about having 300k in student debt but tell me what other profession can buy a home, have 2 nice cars 2 well educated kids, great financing and retirement options available, all while easily handling 300k of personal debt? 

 

And they can pick up and move somewhere anywhere to hit some untapped demand, start a practice, and rake it in. I know a guy who was an ER doc, started an urgent care in a mountain town - bought the building, eventually sold the urgent care biz to a University...rakes in 50K+/month just leasing the building to his old business. 

 

A doctor with a business mind can do really well in this country. 

 

I think also the situation around tradesmen is not as great as it was 2 years ago. It's still possible to do well but simply less real estate activity is naturally going to dampen activity for builds & renovations.

My youngest brother and his GF just graduated, bought a 1.3M house and still plan on renovating. Both dentists... But then again I still consider that trade school.

[Irv72]

2 hours ago, LC said:

 

Not sure what flavor of MD but doctors have some of the best prospects amongst the professions - from great financing deals (my ex was getting offers 0% down market rate 30 year mortgage deals), the ability to write off so many "expenses", inflation+ pricing power... doctors complain about having 300k in student debt but tell me what other profession can buy a home, have 2 nice cars 2 well educated kids, great financing and retirement options available, all while easily handling 300k of personal debt? 

 

And they can pick up and move somewhere anywhere to hit some untapped demand, start a practice, and rake it in. I know a guy who was an ER doc, started an urgent care in a mountain town - bought the building, eventually sold the urgent care biz to a University...rakes in 50K+/month just leasing the building to his old business. 

 

A doctor with a business mind can do really well in this country. 

 

I think also the situation around tradesmen is not as great as it was 2 years ago. It's still possible to do well but simply less real estate activity is naturally going to dampen activity for builds & renovations.

Doctors did well before Obamacare, not since. I wouldn't advise anybody to go into medicine nowadays. When you take the hourly rate, and the sacrifices, it's not what it used to be. (The poor quality of the medical students and graduates nowadays is related to that.)

Edited July 31 by Irv72
I was impolite.

[thepupil]

40 minutes ago, 73 Reds said:

There is value to the college experience if, going in, kids understand that they are there to learn a skillset or prepare for whatever further education is necessary to ultimately make a living. 

I went to a top 10 school. my fraternity brothers (all about 35 now)

 

quant trader

Restructuring lawyer

VC *2

Equity research consultant

dentist * 2

pain medicine doctor 

senior person at asset manager

founder w/ decent exit to FAANG, started 2-3 companies so far 

wanderer (w/ varying degrees of employment)

teacher

don't know

big law

engineer @ defense company

executive at railroad

med tech executive

CEO small software co

non-profit stuff / development

mgt consultant at MBB *2

 

now lots of these people would have been successful if they went to public school and plenty had lots of family connections / help, but it's tough for me to conclude the money our families spent on education was a waste.

 

most of the above, except for the engineers have "useless" liberal arts degrees.

 

I'd struggle to find someone making less than $400K (exception: teacher/nonprofit folks) and there are a few nice right tail outcomes as well. most are doing what they wanted to do or at the very least making a lot of $$$ in prep to do what they want to do. 

 

my school cost about $320K now for 4 years. we don't live in a meritocracy and the network / opportunities offered by elite education have significant value. maybe it won't always be like that, but it's hard to undo 300-400+ years of precedent. it's not necessary to succeed, but the base rate for success seems quite high based on my anecdata and objective rankings of schools w/ median income at 10 years after graduation.

 

and it's practically free for families making <$100K at this point. <$150K at the best schools. so from my standpoint, most people who get in, should go. some edge cases (like say someone whose family makes $200K, but doesn't have a lot of savings and the person knows they want to be something where the network/branding/etc is of little value). but if family makes $700K or $100K, then I'd say that person should still go. 

 

pls excuse the poor writing/punctuation, wrote this quickly b/w stuff.

Edited July 31 by thepupil

[LC]

5 minutes ago, Irv72 said:

Your post reeks of envy. Doctors did well before Obamacare, not after. I wouldn't advise anybody to go into medicine nowadays.

 

Not sure where you sense envy, but I'll say if I had kids who wanted to be doctors...I wouldn't be advising them to become electricians or mechanics instead. If you feel differently then that is your prerogative. 

 

And @thepupil : I totally agree. In fact even the "edge case" you refer to - probably still better to take on 300k of debt and go to a great school. You are buying a practically-guaranteed worst-case outcome of a 200k/year position, with plenty of upside potential. For a fixed debt that can be extended for decades and withered away by inflation? That's a smart bet in my opinion.

[73 Reds]

10 minutes ago, thepupil said:

I went to a top 10 school. my fraternity brothers (all about 35 now)

 

quant trader

Restructuring lawyer

VC *2

Equity research consultant

dentist * 2

pain medicine doctor 

senior person at asset manager

founder w/ decent exit to FAANG, started 2-3 companies so far 

wanderer (w/ varying degrees of employment)

teacher

don't know

big law

engineer @ defense company

executive at railroad

med tech executive

CEO small software co

non-profit stuff / development

mgt consultant at MBB *2

 

now lots of these people would have been successful if they went to public school and plenty had lots of family connections / help, but it's tough for me to conclude the money our families spent on education was a waste.

 

most of the above, except for the engineers have "useless" liberal arts degrees.

 

I'd struggle to find someone making less than $400K (exception: teacher/nonprofit folks) and there are a few nice right tail outcomes as well. most are doing what they wanted to do or at the very least making a lot of $$$ in prep to do what they want to do. 

 

my school cost about $320K now for 4 years. we don't live in a meritocracy and the network / opportunities offered by elite education have significant value. maybe it won't always be like that, but it's hard to undo 300-400+ years of precedent. it's not necessary to succeed, but the base rate for success seems quite high based on my anecdata and objective rankings of schools w/ median income at 10 years after graduation.

 

and it's practically free for families making <$100K at this point. <$150K at the best schools. so from my standpoint, most people who get in, should go. some edge cases (like say someone whose family makes $200K, but doesn't have a lot of savings and the person knows they want to be something where the network/branding/etc is of little value). but if family makes $700K or $100K, then I'd say that person should still go. 

 

pls excuse the poor writing/punctuation, wrote this quickly b/w stuff.

But even you would acknowledge that you and your frat brothers are, as a group, exceptional.  I'm not arguing that college education is a waste; in fact you can probably get a decent education almost anywhere if you stick with useful curriculum that can help you succeed in life.  From my vantage point, colleges and universities offer all too many "degrees" and pathways that tend to lead nowhere without proper values or guidance.