Buffett's investments in Japan

[Xerxes]

Thanks.

 

Clearly I didn’t remember correctly.

just hope the table is back 

[Luke]

Anybody an opinion on which one of the japan bets is the highest quality one? Thinking of buying one of them and using IB margin. Currently doing DD into them! 

[Thelilyinvestor]

In my opinion, is Itochu. I believe they have more non resource companies, so their cash flows are less cyclical. I am invested since 2020 and quite happy with how management is operating the business. Consistently increasing buybacks and dividends.

[nwoodman]

8 hours ago, Thelilyinvestor said:

In my opinion, is Itochu. I believe they have more non resource companies, so their cash flows are less cyclical. I am invested since 2020 and quite happy with how management is operating the business. Consistently increasing buybacks and dividends.

Not that there is much in it but 8001.T also runs a slightly higher thru-cycle ROE.  Surprisingly resilient during COVID too.  
 

All the Sogo Shosha should still provide high single/low double digits.  Not that appealing in absolute terms but becomes mildly appealing if you think Japanese rates are likely to stay lower for longer.  The old boy nailed this one
 

[hasilp89]

Ad from Mitsubishi in todays ft (mentions brk)

 

[Xerxes]

outstanding 

 

 

[dcollon]

Interesting discussion.  Thanks for posting this Xerxes. 

[Xerxes]

1 hour ago, dcollon said:

Interesting discussion.  Thanks for posting this Xerxes. 

your welcome !

 

[Xerxes]

 

https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/stock-investor-with-1-900-gain-breaks-long-silence-in-japan-1.2045946.amp.html

[bt1]

In this annual letter Buffett had written "Japanese companies calculate outstanding shares in a manner different from the practice in the U.S". Does any one know what is different in the way Japanese companies calculate outstanding share? (Apologies if this was discussed in another thread and I missed that, would be thankful if any points that out so I can search for the same.)

[LC]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/live-blog/2024-03-19/bank-of-japan-monetary-policy-decision?embedded-checkout=true

[gfp]

16 hours ago, bt1 said:

In this annual letter Buffett had written "Japanese companies calculate outstanding shares in a manner different from the practice in the U.S". Does any one know what is different in the way Japanese companies calculate outstanding share? (Apologies if this was discussed in another thread and I missed that, would be thankful if any points that out so I can search for the same.)

 

I don't know for certain, but I believe he is just referring to the practice of Japanese companies reporting their shares outstanding including treasury shares instead of the US practice of reporting shares outstanding net of any treasury shares the company owns but hasn't yet officially "cancelled."

 

To get an accurate share count of a Japanese company by the US GAAP understanding you would want to net out any treasury shares (repurchased shares) if the company wasn't reporting share count both ways.  Most of these companies, at least in the English filings, are showing the share count both ways and regularly updating their share repurchase activity by press release.

 

An amusing illustration in the US would be Biglari Holdings which has an official share count (including all GAAP treasury shares the company owns in itself through LP interests) and a GAAP share count that nets out the shares the company owns in itself as treasury shares.  It is a big difference in Biglari Holdings' case.  Since this is unusual in the US, it causes quite a bit of confusion on what the actual market cap / valuation of the firm is.

[bt1]

Thanks much for the explanation @gfp

[Xerxes]

Not much detail but better than nothing. Their exposure to resources was kind of interesting 

 

[yesman182]

More yen bonds being issues. looks like the old man found something to do!

 

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/buffett-berkshire-targets-narrower-spreads-203000948.html

[John Hjorth]

So what are we speculating? Isen't he just buying more 'Sogo Sosha'?

[yesman182]

I don't know what he will buy, probably more of what he already owns. I doubt he is raising this money, just for the sake of raising the money. 

[John Hjorth]

14 minutes ago, yesman182 said:

I don't know what he will buy, probably more of what he already owns. I doubt he is raising this money, just for the sake of raising the money. 

 

@yesman182,

 

Yeah. As if Mr. Buffett did not already have access to lot of cash and cash equivalents.

[LC]

Buffett is smart. The best time to raise money is when you don't need it. Especially if it costs 1%. That said yeah I agree he is probably buying more Japanese equities.

[John Hjorth]

Yeah, it will certainly be exciting and interesting to see, what he has been up to, over time.

[Xerxes]

https://www.msn.com/en-xl/money/other/buffett-favored-mitsui-rises-after-announcing-share-buyback/ar-AA1nXzr4

[jbwent63]

I have been looking through the annual shareholder pages on the various company websites and note the following (shares are in thousands):

 

Marubeni Corp:

BNYM AS AGT/CLTS 10 PERCENT	162,554	9.71

 

Mitsui Corp:

BNYM AS AGT/CLTS 10 PERCENT	137,862	9.16%

 

Sumitomo Corp:

BNYM AS AGT／CLTS 10 PERCENT	113,294	9.27%

 

Itochu Corp.:

BNYM AS AGT ／ CLTS 10 PERCENT

130,162

9.04%

Mitsubishi Corp.:

BNYM AS AGT / CLTS 10 PERCENT

402,862

9.78

 

Fair to assume these are holdings of NICO as of 3/31/24? Or might there be some comingling with other clients of BNYM.

Edited June 19 by jbwent63

[gfp]

17 minutes ago, jbwent63 said:

I have been looking through the annual shareholder pages on the various company websites and note the following (shares are in thousands):

 

Marubeni Corp:

BNYM AS AGT/CLTS 10 PERCENT	162,554	9.71

 

Mitsui Corp:

BNYM AS AGT/CLTS 10 PERCENT	137,862	9.16%

 

Sumitomo Corp:

BNYM AS AGT／CLTS 10 PERCENT	113,294	9.27%

 

Itochu Corp.:

BNYM AS AGT ／ CLTS 10 PERCENT

130,162

9.04%

Mitsubishi Corp.:

BNYM AS AGT / CLTS 10 PERCENT

402,862

9.78

 

Fair to assume these are holdings of NICO as of 3/31/24? Or might there be some comingling with other clients of BNYM.

 

Hard to tell for sure but it wouldn't surprise me if that was essentially Berkshire's position.  Inside NICO, these were the share counts owned at year-end 2023 and they are close -

 

[EricSchleien]

On 3/19/2024 at 6:38 PM, bt1 said:

In this annual letter Buffett had written "Japanese companies calculate outstanding shares in a manner different from the practice in the U.S". Does any one know what is different in the way Japanese companies calculate outstanding share? (Apologies if this was discussed in another thread and I missed that, would be thankful if any points that out so I can search for the same.)

 

Much of my training comes from Japanese culture and have worked with quite a few Japanese Executives over the past 10 years. Have spent quite a bit of time digging into Japanese equities over that time as part of that. Here are a few key distinctions:

1. Treasury Stock Treatment: Japanese companies often include treasury stock in their outstanding share count. In contrast, U.S. companies typically exclude these shares. Treasury stock consists of shares that were once issued and outstanding but were repurchased by the company.

2. Cross-Shareholdings: This is a big one. In Japan, it's common for companies to hold significant stakes in each other. These cross-held shares are sometimes included in the outstanding share count. This practice is less common and treated differently in the U.S.

3. Voting Rights: Japanese companies might distinguish between shares that have voting rights and those that don't, which can affect how they calculate outstanding shares. In the U.S., we often focus more on the total number of shares issued and outstanding, regardless of their voting rights.

Hope this clarifies things. If you have any more additional questions about Japanese businesses, etc - don't hesitate to reach out.

 

[Intelligent_Investor]

Do we know Berkshire's exposure amount to the Yen carry trade?