LC Posted January 18 Posted January 18 4 hours ago, Spekulatius said: All these arguments that Greenland is needed for US security are rubbish. China want to sent ships to America, they already can do this through the Pacific Ocean. There is a absolutely no reason to go over the treacherous route near Greenland. Same for Russia. They have several routes already from Murmansk to Wladiwostok. Nuclear attack submarines can tunnel dive under the north polar ice cab. American subs have demonstrated this in the late 50’s. But then again, Russia isn’t a real threat any more or is this not true? It can’t be both? It’s all BS. One day, it’s needed for national security, another day it’s for minerals. it’s just a pretense just like with drugs. most drugs get smuggled over the US Mexican birder. If Trump wanted to fix this, he would just install all the advanced equipment and put the people needed in place to inspect every truck, train and car that crosses. This would not be easy but sure be easier than to attack any country in the world where drug come from of that smuggle drugs etc because the US happens to be the largest market for this stuff. And for sure, he would not pardon one of the largest drug dealers in ever because he was treated to harshly all of a sudden. https://www.npr.org/2025/12/02/nx-s1-5628382/trump-pardons-honduran-ex-president-juan-orlando-hernandez The amount of nonsensical stuff that this administration puts out to explain the increasingly erratic actions is quite something but for sure not 4 D chess . Going to quote your entire post here because IMO it's spot on. The one thing I'll add is how Trump is pushing Canada towards China - something that actually creates national security risk to the States. Of course MAGA ignores this because daddy Trump told them to. Just like his Venezuela oil grift. But hey, at least it's entertaining watching MAGA contort themselves into knots to swallow all the BS that Trump feeds them.
DooDiligence Posted January 18 Posted January 18 A Mexican, a filipino and a meth head walk into a bar... heil hitler.mp4
Sweet Posted January 18 Posted January 18 (edited) 1 hour ago, cubsfan said: You don't need to believe Bessent. Take it from Denmark's Defense Intelligence Services. While Danish politicians lie through their teeth, they suppress the truth from their "Intelligence Outlook Report 2025". "Denmark's Danish Defense Intelligence Service (DDIS) recently released an assessment bluntly warning of Russian and Chinese military ambitions toward and expansion around Greenland and the Arctic." But the "Intelligence Outlook 2025" report on the security of the Kingdom of Denmark, released just last month, had warned at great length that “China is preparing for a military presence in the Arctic” and that “China’s long-term Arctic interests include Greenland.” The report highlighted Chinese air-based, seaborne, and submersible activities in the Arctic. The Danish intelligence report had further assessed that the militaries of China and Russia were collaborating more closely in the Arctic, displaying the growing “DragonBear” alliance between Chinese President Xi Jinping and Russian President Vladimir Putin. But the Danish intelligence report painted a much more complicated picture than the denials from Danish politicians would suggest, laying out Chinese and Russian military objectives in the Arctic and interest in the Greenland region in particular as well. The report also found that the Russians viewed the ocean to the east of Greenland as key in any future war with NATO, and that China was eyeing Greenland for long-term strategic purposes as well. Putin and Xi declared a “no limits” partnership in early 2022, just ahead of Russia’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine, a war in which China has offered key assistance to the Russians in the subsequent years. The spy report said the partnership extends to the Arctic. Russia remains the strongest military power in the Arctic but sees itself as being challenged by the West. Western sanctions and will therefore seek to deepen its Arctic cooperation with China and allow China greater access to the Russian Arctic.” “China will also seek to tap into Russian expertise and experience in the Arctic as a military theatre. Russia retains a technological and operational edge, particularly in operating attack submarines under the ice and building nuclear-powered icebreakers. The two countries may conduct joint exercises in the Russian Arctic in 2026. For both countries, joint exercises both inside and outside the Arctic would also serve as strategic signaling to the United States and the West.” 1 hour ago, cubsfan said: All you need to do is listen to Danish Intelligence while European leaders lie their ass off. They are warning their own Danish leadership that Denmark can not protect Greenland. Like a good lawyer would say "Deny, Deny, Deny" It doesn't take a genius to figure these things out. https://www.fe-ddis.dk/globalassets/fe/dokumenter/2025/-fe-intelligenceoutlook-25-.pdf I don’t dispute that, I’m posting Bessents comments only because parts of it were strange. Edited January 18 by Sweet
Sweet Posted January 18 Posted January 18 1 hour ago, SharperDingaan said: The Canada 'security' argument is essentially 3-fold. 1) Control over the eastern sea entrances into the North West Passage; 2) Control over the northern non-Russian mineral wealth; 3) Eastern extension of the 'Golden Dome'. Control Canada and Russian seaborne o/g egress can be blockaded a lot more easily. Militarise the western controlled portions and you also control the shipping route from Europe to Asia. The further east the dome, the further the distance to the US eastern seaboard. Alaska was purchased from Russia and eventually became a US state; why can't Canada also be purchased, and become a US state as well? Yes things are done differently today (citizens get to vote on it), but otherwise it is no different to 1867 (Alaska purchase). Just a different POV .... SD Made a change for you, see what you think. Doesn’t fit perfectly but if you can buy Greenland why not Canada too? I don’t think anyone is disputing that US can’t make an offer, just that Denmark and Europe have been quite clear it’s not for sale. And like I said, you can equally argue Greenland is essential for European security too.
cubsfan Posted January 18 Posted January 18 2 minutes ago, Sweet said: I don’t dispute that, I’m posting Bessents comments only because parts of were strange. Oh I know that. You are one of the few reasonable open-minded guys around not blinded by TDS. We're all trying to understand what's going on. I've been floored by the Greenland thing when Trump started talking about it years ago. Personally, I don't care what happens to Greenland so long as they have a say in dumping their colonial oppressor Denmark. LOL
Sweet Posted January 18 Posted January 18 35 minutes ago, Gregmal said: I think it’s pretty clear that like with many other issues, Trump has basically weaponized the years of lies spread by politicians and media folks. All these yappers for years have told us about “Big, Bad, Evil Vlad and Russia”, “Big, Bad, Communist Dictator Xi and China”, “Drug Trafficking Dictator Maduro” in Venezuela. “Nuclear wannabe Dictators in the Middle East”…All of these “super duper bad and imminent threats” of course aren’t nearly as such…which is why you see critics now supporting Maduros civil rights(roflmao), doing ZERO with Ukraine(so much for standing up to Vlad!), undermining action against Iran(crickets there), cutting trade deals with big bad China(oh no you gave us no choice lol)! And even yes redefining “independence” for Greenland as basically just being Denmarks slave state… etc….etc…etc…never ends does it? So yea, the whole Greenland thing is stupid and the subject didn’t even exist in the realm of what anyone cared about a few months or years ago….but now like always…everyone’s a fuckin self declared expert on the subject of Greenland now….but really the underpinning of this crap is basically…”you guys all whined and warned about these “imminent threats” so now I’m going to use that hysteria to go get us some oil/minerals up over there”…. Lol, certainly part of that is true, about the hyping of threats and then a little bit of challenge they go running to sign deals with China… I mean OK. Putin though, many of the warnings have been correct, although I do still think some of it has been hyped too. Still he’s a threat, no doubt. On Greenland, don’t think you need to be an expert to have an opinion. Trump offers money, Denmark and Europe says no… Trump doesn’t like that lol.
Sweet Posted January 18 Posted January 18 3 minutes ago, cubsfan said: Oh I know that. You are one of the few reasonable open-minded guys around not blinded by TDS. We're all trying to understand what's going on. I've been floored by the Greenland thing when Trump started talking about it years ago. Personally, I don't care what happens to Greenland so long as they have a say in dumping their colonial oppressor Denmark. LOL I don't mind if the US ends up with Greenland, but if Denmark says no then say no, and Europe says no, that should be it. Most of Greenland is ethnically people from Denmark, not really true to call it a colony. It was in Denmarks control before the US was independent from Great Britain. Regarding whether they should have a say who controls them. I disagree they should have the right to decide, they are subsidised massively by Denmark, without which their existence might not even be viable. If it’s truly is of national security importance too then I think the 50,000 just have to live with their ‘colonial’ overlords. I mean does anyone think the US would allow Hawaii to become independent?
cubsfan Posted January 18 Posted January 18 35 minutes ago, LC said: The one thing I'll add is how Trump is pushing Canada towards China - something that actually creates national security risk to the States. Of course MAGA ignores this because daddy Trump told them to. No one is ignoring this - it will be a huge issue later this year with trade talks. Feel free to endear yourself to the benevolent dictator of China who will attempt to steal your IP, trade secrets, send you fentanyl and kill your unsuspecting population with biological weapons while they bribe your politicians with vast wealth and hollow out your manufacturing base. Your globalists clowns like China Carney will get rich along with his friends - just keep an eye on your citizens. It's definitely your call. Once the "strategic" relationship between the two of you blossoms into military bases, ports, etc, etc - then it will be FAFO. Good luck with China - we keep them at arm's length and wish to distance ourselves from their destruction of the USA.
Gregmal Posted January 18 Posted January 18 14 minutes ago, Sweet said: Putin though, many of the warnings have been correct, although I do still think some of it has been hyped too. Still he’s a threat, no doubt. I mean sure....way to show us how big a threat he was.... funneling money into Russia for decades so on the "energy front" we can boast about how "green" we are at Davos....and then not once, but twice when it came to standing up for Ukraine...their strategy for "showing Russia who's boss" was to....look at the US and whine about "not doing enough". No wonder people think European leaders are just a bunch of hollow academic oriented losers.
LC Posted January 18 Posted January 18 14 minutes ago, cubsfan said: It's definitely your call. Once the "strategic" relationship between the two of you blossoms into military bases, ports, etc, etc - then it will be FAFO. You don't want China in your backyard but you refuse to criticize Trump who opened the door and let them in. MAGA in a nutshell, folks. Remember Sanjeev's old signature: "No man is a failure who has friends" The US is exemplifying the total opposite... And unsurprisingly, this happens to be an exact reflection of its dear leader!
cubsfan Posted January 18 Posted January 18 53 minutes ago, Sweet said: I don't mind if the US ends up with Greenland, but if Denmark says no then say no, and Europe says no, that should be it. Most of Greenland is ethnically people from Denmark, not really true to call it a colony. It was in Denmarks control before the US was independent from Great Britain. Regarding whether they should have a say who controls them. I disagree they should have the right to decide, they are subsidised massively by Denmark, without which their existence might not even be viable. If it’s truly is of national security importance too then I think the 50,000 just have to live with their ‘colonial’ overlords. I mean does anyone think the US would allow Hawaii to become independent? Like I said, I'm a hard no at taking Greenland by military force. But I'm not Trump. If he works it out with NATO and/or the Danish blowhards - I'm all for it. It's quite interesting how this President works: he now has the whole world's attention on the strategic subject of Greenland. So much so, that European leaders lie to their populations about the situation. But the subject is squarely on the table. As @73 Reds insists. The big winner is likely to be Greenland and the 20% living in poverty because of their colonial oppressor Denmark. And it's a no on Hawaii - it's been tried before and cost Japan big-time.
cubsfan Posted January 18 Posted January 18 (edited) 42 minutes ago, LC said: You don't want China in your backyard but you refuse to criticize Trump who opened the door and let them in. I have no idea what you mean about "letting them in". But that's ok - I'll take your word for it. If you think it was a mistake - then maybe you learn from Trump: keep a close eye on them lest they work to destroy Canada. Edited January 18 by cubsfan
Sweet Posted January 18 Posted January 18 (edited) 29 minutes ago, cubsfan said: The big winner is likely to be Greenland and the 20% living in poverty because of their colonial oppressor Denmark. You’re trolling. 1 hour ago, Gregmal said: I mean sure....way to show us how big a threat he was.... funneling money into Russia for decades so on the "energy front" we can boast about how "green" we are at Davos....and then not once, but twice when it came to standing up for Ukraine...their strategy for "showing Russia who's boss" was to....look at the US and whine about "not doing enough". No wonder people think European leaders are just a bunch of hollow academic oriented losers. Exactly. Not only have the European been doing this, but both the US and Europe took China from an economic backwater to an economic and military superpower to rival the US and Europe. We knew China were a rival, we realised our mistake in opening them up for trade, and yet we still continued to do it until Trump - and even now we are still doing it. Just total stupidity. Edited January 18 by Sweet
SharperDingaan Posted January 18 Posted January 18 (edited) 3 hours ago, Sweet said: Made a change for you, see what you think. Doesn’t fit perfectly but if you can buy Greenland why not Canada too? Trump already tried, by floating the '51st State' thing. Of course; to be negotiated, and not as a single state ... bigger, and hence with more 'say', than every other state in the US! Notable was that there was no offer for Mexico; and as with Greenland, he was politely reminded to eff off . Quite a bit more difficult with Canada, as the two economies are functionally very integrated, and citizenry vote with their pocketbooks. Boycotts on US products, travel/rail/port traffic through anywhere but the US, direct trade and manufacture with Asia, etc, etc are hurting. It's also a lot smarter for both, to let Canada remain independent, contribute to the cost of the dome, and strengthen the Canadian economy by reducing reliance on the US. Northern defence is as much a direct threat to Canada as it is to the US; hence NORAD cooperation. Much less the case with Europe, with more interest in defending against attack from the east (and badly), versus an attack from the North ... and where the intent seems to be primarily one of slowing down the advance, should the aggressor choose to call the bluff. Not great if you're a Scandinavian nation, or you are reliant upon Scandinavian forces to hold their side of the dome up; hence the 'we gotta have Greenland'. There will be a lot of shitting on the carpet to get it done, but it will occur. You want defence you gotta put up the equipment, troops, money, and reliability. SD Edited January 18 by SharperDingaan
cubsfan Posted January 18 Posted January 18 9 minutes ago, Sweet said: You’re trolling. Yup just like the other posters that tell you my Greenland comments are garbage and nonsense. And the others that tell you the Americans have no "Arctic experience" despite having some of the best Arctic defenses in the world. There is plenty of nonsense and ridicule to go around.
Sweet Posted January 18 Posted January 18 3 minutes ago, cubsfan said: Yup just like the other posters that tell you my Greenland comments are garbage and nonsense. And the others that tell you the Americans have no "Arctic experience" despite having some of the best Arctic defenses in the world. There is plenty of nonsense and ridicule to go around. lol, you got me.
cubsfan Posted January 18 Posted January 18 10 minutes ago, SharperDingaan said: Trump already tried, by floating the '51st State' thing. Of course; to be be negotiated, and not as a single state ... bigger, and hence with more 'say', than every other state in the US! Notable was that there was no offer for Mexico; and as with Greenland, he was politely reminded to eff off . Quite a bit more difficult with Canada, as the two economies are functionally very integrated, and citizenry vote with their pocketbooks. Boycotts on US products, travel/rail/port traffic through anywhere but the US, direct trade and manufacture with Asia, etc, etc are hurting. It's also a lot smarter for both, to let Canada remain independent, contribute to the cost of the dome, and strengthen the Canadian economy by reducing reliance on the US. Northern defence is as much a direct threat to Canada as it is to the US; hence NORAD cooperation. Much less the case with Europe, with more interest in defending against attack from the east (and badly), versus an attack from the North ... and where the intent seems to be primarily one of slowing down the advance, should the aggressor choose to call the bluff. Not great if you're a Scandinavian nation, or you are reliant upon Scandinavian forces to hold their side of the dome up; hence the 'we gotta have Greenland'. There will be a lot of shitting on the carpet to get it done, but it will occur. You want defence you gotta put up the equipment, money, and reliability. SD +1 - cage match time!
LC Posted January 18 Posted January 18 1 hour ago, cubsfan said: I have no idea what you mean about "letting them in". But that's ok - I'll take your word for it. Ostrich, meet sand?
John Hjorth Posted January 18 Posted January 18 3 hours ago, SharperDingaan said: ... Even if Greenlander's vote to stay in Denmark; nothing subsequently prevents Denmark from selling Greenland, and saving the annual 600 million Euro block grant. ... SD [ @SharperDingaan ], This statement of yours is not correct : Wikipedia : Greenlandic Independence Quote ... As part of the self-rule law of 2009 (section §21), Greenland can declare full independence if it wishes to pursue it, but it would have to be approved by a referendum among the Greenlandic people[23] and by the Danish parliament. ... There is nothing to sell, a bird already, a priori, set free sh*tting it's own birdcage with food consumed, the cost of the food and birdcage cleaning, vet bills etc. per year summing up to USD 600 million, can't be sold at positive value, if the buyer has to open the cage and let the bird fly on demand by the bird.
John Hjorth Posted January 18 Posted January 18 (edited) Danish Prime Ministers Office [January 18th 2026] : Common Statement by 'The Eight' [click on the download button] Edited January 18 by John Hjorth
cubsfan Posted January 18 Posted January 18 3 minutes ago, John Hjorth said: Danish Prime Ministers Office [January 18th 2026] : Common Statement by 'The Eight' [click on the download button] Brilliant! Trump sure gets people moving after all the lying.
SharperDingaan Posted January 18 Posted January 18 (edited) It's also only a matter of time until NATO has to put up ongoing adequate manpower, via some kind of systematic national draft for a minimum period of time; each NATO nation contributing X people, as they see fit, according to the size of their population. The men and women in support that keep the background ops going, and from which the front line operations can draw for recruitment. Part of the draft served at home, part served abroad, and a contribution to further education at a domestic university/college at the end of the draft; as most nations already do in some fashion. Domestic service might include fire fighting, medical, and rescue; after the draft - more mature students going to school and getting more out of it. Strengthened national identity by sharing the load across the nation, across more sections of society, and across multiple generations; versus just relying on the same few ... continuously putting up. Not likely to be popular amongst NATO's various politicians, so expect a lot more shitting on the carpet Last time there was something similar was WWII, and the benefits lasted generations; fortunately, another world war isn't required, if it is to be done again. Money, men/women, and equipment. SD Edited January 18 by SharperDingaan
John Hjorth Posted January 18 Posted January 18 Politico.eu - News - Trade [January 18th 2026] : Hit back at Trump? Europe mulls unthinkable options as Greenland threats ramp up tensions Subttitle : Senior politicians want the EU to deploy its trade bazooka against the United States over Trump’s Greenland claims. Capitals aren’t so sure. - - - o 0 o - - - Wikipedia : [EU] Anti-Coercion Instrument - - - o 0 o - - - All good, just great, right? - Please give me a break.
Spekulatius Posted January 18 Posted January 18 (edited) So, ICE indeed has arrest quotas , regardless of the arrested being legit here or not. Show me the incentives and I show you the outcome. https://www.wsj.com/us-news/the-standoff-that-has-turned-minnesota-into-a-tinderbox-a3a7e672?mod=lead_feature_below_a_pos3 BS incentives —> BS outcomes. Quote officers are rewarded for making arrests, even if the immigrants they take in are later released. Edited January 19 by Spekulatius
SharperDingaan Posted January 18 Posted January 18 19 minutes ago, John Hjorth said: SD [ @SharperDingaan ], This statement of yours is not correct : Wikipedia : Greenlandic Independence There is nothing to sell, a bird already, a priori, set free sh*tting it's own birdcage with food consumed, the cost of the food and birdcage cleaning, vet bills etc. per year summing up to USD 600 million, can't be sold at positive value, if the buyer has to open the cage and let the bird fly on demand by the bird. Great for Greenlander's so long as Denmark doesn't overtly interfere. In Orange Boys eyes it's just a real estate deal with negative carry, that Denmark should be happy to get rid of. That ongoing USD 600 million simply becomes the US contribution to arctic defence (in weapons), that the 8 NATO members need to collectively put up every year ... or better. USD 1.2 billion+ spent on Greenland every year ... Hardly surprising that NATO doesn't appreciate the squeeze. SD
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