Political Posts

[73 Reds]

6 minutes ago, dealraker said:

Or is immigration an easily solved problem deliberately not solved, used as a fear based vehicle to to get votes? 

 

Yup.  Anyone have an issue with that?

[dealraker]

2 minutes ago, 73 Reds said:

Yup.  Anyone have an issue with that?

Check my rewording on that.  It ain't one sided.

 

This:

 

Or is immigration an easily planned and solved problem deliberately not solved, instead used for politics and votes? 

Edited November 21, 2025 by dealraker

[73 Reds]

Just now, dealraker said:

Check my rewording on that.  It ain't one sided.

Didn't say it was, but evidently you assumed differently.  Both sides are clearly to blame.    

[thepupil]

10 minutes ago, Marco Van Basten said:

Spek, more immigration = higher housing costs, more environmental degradation and lower wages.  It also allows us to ignore the problems with our educational system.  

 

i don't know how one would measure the quantitative impact of fewer immigrants along with the fact that immigrants build all the houses and therefore kicking them out likely curtails supply growth and significantly increases the cost of new supply. 

 

without a desire to spend real time on this, I will outsource my critical thinking to ChatGPT, as that's what everyone does. 

 

seems like a lot...

 

Quote

here’s decent estimate-level data for construction as a whole and for key homebuilding trades, but no official, precise statistic just for “new home construction” workers who are undocumented.

Here’s what we can say reliably from the best data:

---

1. What data actually exist?

Because immigration status isn’t asked in standard labor surveys, researchers have to infer who is undocumented using Census/ACS microdata and a “residual” method (subtracting out people with likely legal status). Pew Research, the Center for American Progress (CAP), NAHB, and others use this approach. Pew Research Center+1

So: numbers are estimates, but they’re generally considered the best we’ve got.

---

2. Undocumented workers in U.S. construction overall

Several recent analyses line up in roughly the same ballpark:

• The construction industry employs nearly 1.6 million undocumented workers, based on ACS data. American Business Immigration Coalition+1

• CAP’s analysis of 2018–2019 ACS data concludes that “more than 1 in 10 construction workers are undocumented” (i.e., >10%). Center for American Progress

• A 2025 brief from an industry/advocacy coalition similarly notes that immigrants make up nearly 30% of the construction workforce in total, and about 1.6 million of those workers are undocumented. American Business Immigration Coalition

• Pew’s earlier work (2012 data) estimated that unauthorized immigrants accounted for about 14% of workers in construction occupations. Pew Research Center

• A more recent commentary summarizing NAHB data puts undocumented workers at roughly 13% of the American construction industry. Edward Conard

Putting that together, nationally, the best-supported range is roughly 10–15% of all construction workers being undocumented, depending on year and method.

In some states it’s much higher. For example:

• In Texas, the American Immigration Council estimates that about 23% of all construction workers are undocumented. Urban Institute

---

3. What about homebuilding specifically?

We don’t have a “new home construction only” status flag in the data, but we can look at the trades that make up most new-home job sites:

CAP’s occupation-level estimates for workers in construction show the share of each occupation that is undocumented: Center for American Progress

• Construction laborers – 23% undocumented

• Carpenters – 19% undocumented

• Painters/paperhangers – 29% undocumented

• Roofers – 32% undocumented

• Drywall/ceiling tile installers/tapers – 38% undocumented

• Brickmasons/blockmasons/stonemasons/rebar workers – 25% undocumented

• Carpet/floor/tile installers – 24% undocumented

Those trades are core to new single-family home construction (framing, roofing, drywall, painting, finishes, etc.), so you’re looking at roughly one-fifth to over one-third of workers in many key homebuilding trades being undocumented at the national level.

NAHB’s own analysis of immigrants (legal + undocumented) using the ACS shows that: NAHB+1

• Immigrants are 24–30% of the construction labor force overall, and

• They make up 40–60% of workers in several trades essential to homebuilding (roofers, painters, drywall installers, plasterers/stucco masons, carpet/floor/tile installers).

So while NAHB doesn’t split those immigrants into legal vs undocumented, combining their immigrant shares with CAP’s undocumented shares implies that a significant chunk of the on-site workforce for new homes is both immigrant and, in many markets, undocumented.

---

4. Why there’s no single clean number for “new home construction”

A few limitations:

1. Surveys don’t label “new home vs. remodel vs. commercial.” BLS/ACS know a worker is in construction and what their occupation/industry is, but not the exact type of project they’re on.

2. Status is modeled, not self-reported. The “undocumented” label is a statistical estimate, not a direct survey question.

3. Huge regional variation. States like California, Texas, Florida, Nevada, Arizona, etc. have much higher immigrant and undocumented shares than, say, the Midwest or New England. NAHB+2HBI+2

Because of that, no major data source publishes a single, official percentage for “undocumented share of the new home construction workforce” nationwide. What we have instead are:

• Good national estimates for construction overall (about 10–15% undocumented),

• Very good estimates for specific homebuilding trades (19–38% undocumented in many of the main occupations), and

• State-level and occupation-level breakdowns showing that in high-immigration states, the jobsite share can be substantially higher.

---

Bottom line

• Yes, there is reasonably reliable data, but it’s indirect and not broken out cleanly for “new home construction” only.

• The best evidence suggests:

  • Roughly 10–15% of all U.S. construction workers are undocumented nationally,

  • Around 20–35% of workers in several key homebuilding trades (laborers, carpenters, roofers, drywall, etc.) are undocumented, on average across the country,

  • With higher shares (20–25%+ overall) in some states like Texas and parts of the Southwest.

If you’d like, I can walk through how those percentages would translate to rough counts for a specific state or metro area you’re interested in.

Recent coverage on immigrant labor and construction

 

[dealraker]

3 minutes ago, 73 Reds said:

Didn't say it was, but evidently you assumed differently.  Both sides are clearly to blame.    

I wasn't referring to anything you wrote Reds, just trying to figure out how to write what I'm thinking...something I'm not good with.  

[73 Reds]

Just now, dealraker said:

I wasn't referring to anything you wrote Reds, just trying to figure out how to write what I'm thinking...something I'm not good with.  

Your message was fine - immigration is easily solvable.  Yet some posters here (not you) find the concept funny.  That's the part I don't understand.

[cubsfan]

Let's be honest about illegal immigration.  Republicans want cheap labor, Democrats want to buy votes.  It's been a 2 party problem.

 

American citizens get screwed - bad schools, crime, lower wages, overtaxed social services, etc.  

 

Elites have a workaround for all of this because of their wealth. 

"Not in my neighborhood"

 

No one talks about those who wait in line legally as immigrants are screwed.

A country can only absorb so much - before it starts to change your country/culture dramatically.

 

No on hates immigrants - just uncontrolled immigration.

 

BTW- My mom is Paraguayan not Cuban (no big deal)

She and my French wife waited in line as others did legally.

They learned to speak English, obeyed the law always, respected the culture.

[Gregmal]

29 minutes ago, dealraker said:

Or is immigration an easily planned and solved problem deliberately not solved, instead used for politics and votes? 

 

Ding, ding, ding

[73 Reds]

4 minutes ago, cubsfan said:

Let's be honest about illegal immigration.  Republicans want cheap labor, Democrats want to buy votes.  It's been a 2 party problem.

 

American citizens get screwed - bad schools, crime, lower wages, overtaxed social services, etc.  

 

Elites have a workaround for all of this because of their wealth. 

"Not in my neighborhood"

 

No one talks about those who wait in line legally as immigrants are screwed.

A country can only absorb so much - before it starts to change your country/culture dramatically.

 

No on hates immigrants - just uncontrolled immigration.

 

BTW- My mom is Paraguayan not Cuban (no big deal)

She and my French wife waited in line as others did legally.

They learned to speak English, obeyed the law always, respected the culture.

<No one hates immigrants - just uncontrolled immigration>  Bingo.  Yet corrupt media and corrupt politicians lump it all into one and make it a divisive issue.  

[Marco Van Basten]

3 hours ago, gfp said:

 

I remember when I was a young child and I asked my Mom, "Mommy, where do houses come from?" and she didn't say anything.  Just pointed at the group of Latino men loading supplies into their truck at 5am

I didn't know that Latino men built my parents house in 1927 or my apartment in 1910.  On a more serious note, if you did not have immigrants depressing wages, and propaganda telling every high school kid to go to college rather than trade school, you'd see Americans building houses.  Using your logic, let's bring in 5MM Eastern European, Chinese and Indian immigrants, and drive all Americans out of computer science and medicine!

[Marco Van Basten]

3 hours ago, dealraker said:

Or is immigration an easily planned and solved problem deliberately not solved, instead used for politics and votes? 

 

You and I both know the answer that it is deliberate not being solved.   I am all for bringing in doctors and nurses on special visas on the condition that they work in rural areas.   

[cubsfan]

1 hour ago, Marco Van Basten said:

 On a more serious note, if you did not have immigrants depressing wages, and propaganda telling every high school kid to go to college rather than trade school, you'd see Americans building houses.

 

The problem lies here with our educational system - totally misguided with emphasis on the soft social sciences and the ridiculous degrees, like "studies" degrees - Gender Studies, Black Studies, Psychology.  These largely worthless degrees are kidding our kids, leaving them with little in terms of valuable skills.

You could learn as much from these degrees by watching TV.  They can't earn any money and get saddled with debt they can't pay off.

 

You're totally right - we need to teach kids how to make things so they can earn a decent living.

[Parsad]

Great job by Trump and his team!  Essentially gave Putin most everything he wants. 

 

This guy is a great negotiator!  Now the Russia-US deals come at the expense of the Ukrainian people. 

 

Probably the same long-term outcome for Gaza as well.  Cheers!
 

https://www.cnn.com/2025/11/21/europe/ukraine-russia-trump-peace-analysis-intl

[dwy000]

Wow, did not see the Mamdami/Trump love fest coming!  They look like besties.  Would have loved to have been a fly on the wall in the closed door session that led to this. 

[John Hjorth]

14 hours ago, Parsad said:

Great job by Trump and his team!  Essentially gave Putin most everything he wants. 

 

This guy is a great negotiator!  Now the Russia-US deals come at the expense of the Ukrainian people. 

 

Probably the same long-term outcome for Gaza as well.  Cheers!
 

https://www.cnn.com/2025/11/21/europe/ukraine-russia-trump-peace-analysis-intl

 

I was about to post yesterday evening about this, but decided to let it go, it got too much out of balance, but the thuth is, that the Ukranian President as per the Ukrainian Constitution, not even the whole Ukranian parlament possesses the competence, nor powers to give up Ukranian territories.

 

In the mean time, all while POTUS has developed the US  relationship to the situation via NATO to become a cold hearted opportunisc arms dealer, making US companies lots of money on weapon deliveries to the Russian-Ukrainian war financed by means and economic ressources financed by the European contries, that are NATO members and participants in The Coalition of the Willing.

 

POTUS hasen't realized, that his pushing hard for European NATO members to actually do their by NATO agreement appropriate and sufficient defence related to fullfill NATO obligations [rightfully stated and called by POTUS, certainly], and distancing it self from involvement in the Russian-Ukrainian war, and turning coat to become an in the situation opportunistic arms dealer, also implies, that all US chips and cards to play related to the situation by that disappear! Disgusting American hypocrisy, double standards when best! - Likely because of the need to divert the US domestic political attention from some highly political sensitive US domestic file case related to some kinky American thug and his buddies!

 

Please give me a break, It could as well by now have been that 'Greenland-thingy' instead!

 

[I expect next thing to happen here because of this post of mine will be one of 'filthy few' pulling the TDS card, perhaps other kinds of name calling considered rude, by others here on CofB&F, against me ...]

Edited November 22, 2025 by John Hjorth

[Jay Rent]

Very sad day for US politics and terrible for the Ukrainian people.     Private BoneSpurs meeting w/Putin in Alaska will go down as one of the top 10 worse things a US President has done in its 250 years.   

 

No US president should ever meet directly with a foreign adversary without the assurance of receiving something beneficial in return.   Every Military General knows that.      Propaganda news networks in Russia are laughing at the USA.

 

Biden made alot of mistakes but one thing historians and independent scholars are going to give him credit for is leading a strong coalition with NATO and Europe in defense of Ukraine.     I sure the Hannity/Carlson garbage propaganda machine will get Trump's brainwashed group thinkers in line -   but its just awful.   

 

Hopefully some Republicans will push back and Finland's President will be able to sway him.

 

Trump's moronic negotiating with China (and Canada and Greenland) is incompetence but Ukraine actually affects families who died for their county and he does not give a shit, just doing it so he can tell his followers he deserves the Nobel Peace Price.    Pathetic!

[Dalal.Holdings]

Not to worry, Ukraine’s European allies have been preparing for this moment since 2014.
 

They will surely be able to provide the intelligence and logistics that Ukraine needs to continue fighting. Surely!

[cubsfan]

Tough decision for Ukraine and Europe - you want an end to the war or not??

 

It's your war, not the USA's war.  You let this fiasco go on for 5 years now, with no plan to win it or settle it. NONE.

 

Looks like you have very tough decisions to make. President Trump doesn't fall for your plan to drag the USA into YOUR war that you have NO intention of fighting with your own sons and daughters.

 

Quite a sad day for Europe.

[Dalal.Holdings]

1 minute ago, cubsfan said:

Tough decision for Ukraine and Europe - you want an end to the war or not??

 

It's your war, not the USA's war.  You let this fiasco go on for 5 years now, with no plan to win it or settle it. NONE.

 

Looks like you have very tough decisions to make. President Trump doesn't fall for your plan to drag the USA into YOUR war that you have NO intention of fighting with your own sons and daughters.

 

Quite a sad day for Europe.

Yeah. When is France going to deploy its aircraft carrier and supposed advanced military to support Ukraine?

Doesn’t the ESA have the satellites to replace U.S. intelligence gathering ? 

[cubsfan]

Just now, Dalal.Holdings said:

Yeah. When is France going to deploy its aircraft carrier and supposed advanced military to support Ukraine?

Doesn’t the ESA have the satellites to replace U.S. intelligence gathering ? 

 

Several months ago, big talking bullshitter President Macron spoke about sending Frenchman to help in Ukraine - he got bitch-slapped by his own people - no fucking way you're sending our French kids to fight Russia.

 

Like most of the European leaders - they are ALL TALK.

 

 

[LC]

29 minutes ago, Jay Rent said:

Trump's moronic negotiating with China (and Canada and Greenland) is incompetence but Ukraine actually affects families who died for their county and he does not give a shit, just doing it so he can tell his followers he deserves the Nobel Peace Price.    Pathetic!

 

100% - Another embarrassment on the world stage. 

[Spekulatius]

11 hours ago, Marco Van Basten said:

Spek, more immigration = higher housing costs, more environmental degradation and lower wages.  It also allows us to ignore the problems with our educational system.  

Emigration is not a zero sum game. for example how many homes are build by emigrants / emigrant labor versus how much do they occupy. I think they build a lot of more they occupy.

 

I am not against uncontrolled emigration either , but the USA has been build on emigration during the hole existence. It’s has become a problem because there is no political will to create a sensible framework.

 

Also, to ask a personal question - you or your parents emigrated here from Russia. If current MAGA politics were in place back then, you or your parents emigrated would rot in Russia and you may be drafted to a frontline in Luhansk and get killed by a Ukrainian drone.

 

Why do you pull up a ladder after you made it to safety? What is the moral framework here?

Edited November 22, 2025 by Spekulatius

[Spekulatius]

On 11/20/2025 at 1:10 PM, cubsfan said:

 

Read it and weep @dealraker   -- you can thank POTUS later.

 

In a major win for residents of the Charlotte, North Carolina area, the U.S. Department of Homeland Security (DHS) announced that it has arrested over 250 illegal aliens from the Charlotte area. Among those arrested are numerous criminal illegal aliens with extensive immigration and criminal histories, including domestic violence, assault, breaking and entering, larceny, and driving while intoxicated.

 

https://www.dhs.gov/news/2025/11/19/dhs-continues-catch-worst-worst-during-operation-charlottes-web

 

Just think - that's only 2/3 days work.

 

Ok, since I actually  live in Charlotte  now - it’s true they got some folks with criminal records but most people were just illegal ( undocumented) here. My wife actually worked at a hospital where the ICE paraded with their black SUV’s and patrolled the hospital foyer. Not sure what this was about but they carried a in a poor sob who got a seizure when the ICE caught him in for treatment. They posted 3 (!)  Guys with para military dress up in front of his room to make sure the 60 ‘s year old guy with obvious medical issues didn’t go on a rampage.

 

So yes, they did get some but man does this look like performance art.

Edited November 22, 2025 by Spekulatius

[Parsad]

3 hours ago, Dalal.Holdings said:

Yeah. When is France going to deploy its aircraft carrier and supposed advanced military to support Ukraine?

Doesn’t the ESA have the satellites to replace U.S. intelligence gathering ? 

 

3 hours ago, cubsfan said:

 

Several months ago, big talking bullshitter President Macron spoke about sending Frenchman to help in Ukraine - he got bitch-slapped by his own people - no fucking way you're sending our French kids to fight Russia.

 

Like most of the European leaders - they are ALL TALK.

 

 

 

You guys bitch about the communists and leftists in the U.S., but you're 100% ok with the President of the world's greatest democracy (or what used to be) give a sweetheart deal to the a former lieutenant colonel of the KGB, former director of the FSB, and the biggest proponent of Communist Russia!  Trump is Putin's bitch...plain and simple!

 

It's not about saving lives, it's about making money with Russia at Ukraine's expense going forward.  The same thing will happen to Gaza. 

 

Cheers!

[Marco Van Basten]

3 hours ago, Spekulatius said:

Emigration is not a zero sum game. for example how many homes are build by emigrants / emigrant labor versus how much do they occupy. I think they build a lot of more they occupy.

 

I am not against uncontrolled emigration either , but the USA has been build on emigration during the hole existence. It’s has become a problem because there is no political will to create a sensible framework.

 

Also, to ask a personal question - you or your parents emigrated here from Russia. If current MAGA politics were in place back then, you or your parents emigrated would rot in Russia and you may be drafted to a frontline in Luhansk and get killed by a Ukrainian drone.

 

Why do you pull up a ladder after you made it to safety? What is the moral framework here?

Former USSR, no, we had alternatives, US was not the only place to go. there were other countries. Millions of Russians fled Russia after the 2022 invasion of Ukraine.   As times change, you adjust.  What was right for the US in the 1800s is not necessarily right today.  Also immigration allows US to ignore major problems  like horrendous public education system.  You also do not take into account that immigration changes society.  Would you like to live in India, China, Russia, Indonesia, Yemen, Pakistan, Columbia, Venezuela, Ukraine, Sudan, Nigeria, Zimbabwe, Mali, etc...?  If you allow major immigration from these countries, they will turn the US into the disaster these people left.