Political Posts

[gfp]

"among those arrested" are criminals.  But being here illegally isn't the same as being a criminal.  There are criminals (US born and otherwise) and there are people here illegally (a civil matter).

[John Hjorth]

11 minutes ago, gfp said:

"among those arrested" are criminals.  But being here illegally isn't the same as being a criminal.  There are criminals (US born and otherwise) and there are people here illegally (a civil matter).

 

Thank you, @gfp, for stating the facts here, as clear as bent in neon tubes.

 

It's impossible to have a civil and rational discussion of the matter in a big bunch, because it's two dimensional, with four combinations of the answers to the two questions (US born or otherwise) and (criminal or not criminal).

Edited November 20, 2025 by John Hjorth

[Sweet]

27 minutes ago, dealraker said:

Without a doubt the most worthless lying comment I have ever read.

You wrote the following just hours previous.

 

4 hours ago, dealraker said:

Can you imagine, if you are a "let's go back to the 50's of MAGA dreams" --- and you've got all these family cultures built upon attaining disability as it is truly a culture or subculture now in the US, living fearless and knowing nothing but sit down and draw and bitch- bitch- bitch about brown skinners....who work.  Verses all these hard working people living in fear who work hard every day who are being chased around by masked men.  I thought MAGA wouldn't dare wear a mask much less showing up on work sites to arrest people...while sending a huge part of their paycheck to couch potatoes.

 

My nephew who runs the builders supply just told me, "The thing that our contractors are all saying is that their workers are now both asking for more pay and gyrating around from one employer to another based on who is desperate enough to to pay the most."

 

 

I don’t really see how you can complain.

[cubsfan]

4 minutes ago, gfp said:

"among those arrested" are criminals.  But being here illegally isn't the same as being a criminal.  There are criminals (US born and otherwise) and there are people here illegally (a civil matter).

 

 

You left out the best part: There are illegal immigrants that commit crimes that 

are shielded from deportation.  I think that number was actually 600,000.

 

There is quite an extensive list of immigrant criminals in the DHS filing. 

 

And of course, the real shame is: if you as an illegal immigrant gives shelter or hangs around illegal immigrant criminals- you are going to get removed yourself.

 

That is the stupidity of not fully co-operating with ICE.

 

Oh, well - I don't make the laws - Congress did and refused to change them.

 

[gfp]

2 minutes ago, cubsfan said:

 

 

You left out the best part: There are illegal immigrants that commit crimes that 

are shielded from deportation.  I think that number was actually 600,000.

 

There is quite an extensive list of immigrant criminals in the DHS filing. 

 

And of course, the real shame is: if you as an illegal immigrant gives shelter or hangs around illegal immigrant criminals- you are going to get removed yourself.

 

That is the stupidity of not fully co-operating with ICE.

 

Oh, well - I don't make the laws - Congress did and refused to change them.

 

 

We're gonna organize an Ebenezer Scrooge type experience for you Mike, where you wake up as a hardworking Latino down in Carpentersville, IL putting food on the table for your family and paying nine kinds of tax into the US economy.  

[Sweet]

15 minutes ago, gfp said:

"among those arrested" are criminals.  But being here illegally isn't the same as being a criminal.  There are criminals (US born and otherwise) and there are people here illegally (a civil matter).

Entering the US illegally is a crime.

 

Overstaying your visa is civil.

 

@John Hjorth

[gfp]

1 minute ago, Sweet said:

Entering the US illegally is a crime.

 

Overstaying your visa is civil.

 

@John Hjorth

 

In my experience, entering a second time AFTER being deported is when it becomes criminal.  YMMV

[Sweet]

5 minutes ago, gfp said:

 

In my experience, entering a second time AFTER being deported is when it becomes criminal.  YMMV

Entering illegally the first time is treated as a misdemeanour (still a crime), entering again AFTER you are deported is a felony (serious crime).

 

edit - your comment reads as if you were deported and entered again illegally - ‘my experience’ lol

 

Edited November 20, 2025 by Sweet

[gfp]

I already regret stumbling into this neighborhood of the forum, but one more story...

 

I am the "parent" of Eduardo who was completely undocumented in the United States, having crossed the border from Mexico with no papers.  We raised him from age 15 and he is an adult now, almost 26 years old.  He didn't even have a Mexican birth certificate, no paper trail whatsoever.

 

Because I am very good at research and paperwork and dealing with the State Department, Mexican Government, and annoying the Social Security administration staffers until they finally give in, he has a US Passport, a Social Security card, a USCIS certificate of citizenship and a birth certificate (Mexican).

 

But you know what?  When I talk to him on the phone now (he lives in rural Missouri currently), he sounds just like the rest of you guys complaining about the "Illegals" !

 

Unbelievable.  What do they call that - pulling up the ladder behind you or something like that?  

 

edit:  I'm running back to the value investing portion of the forum and I'm gonna forget what I saw over here on the dark side and think of you all as kind and gentle people just like that Jesus I hear so much about!

Edited November 20, 2025 by gfp

[John Hjorth]

5 minutes ago, Sweet said:

Entering the US illegally is a crime.

 

Overstaying your visa is civil.

 

@John Hjorth

 

The basic logic in what I posted still stands, @Sweet. That does not make your comment irrelevant, it's a criteria about which of the four boxes to allocate a given person to. I deliberately phrased it so that I was not bringing my self in trouble, because I as a Northern European citizen have no clue about the legal framework steering this allocation.

[cubsfan]

4 minutes ago, gfp said:

 

We're gonna organize an Ebenezer Scrooge type experience for you Mike, where you wake up as a hardworking Latino down in Carpentersville, IL putting food on the table for your family and paying nine kinds of tax into the US economy.  

 

Hahaha - good one. I actually work out with a few Mexicans from Carpentersville at my Mexican health club. Really good guys.

 

I just say Keep America Safe @gfp

 

Check this one out - I lived in San Antonio for about a year - great place.

 

A SINGLE ICE raid - 1 frickin' raid - nets 27 Tren-de-Agua Gang members.

Unfortunately, the dumb ass illegal immigrants that "hung out" with those gang members get ICE'd as well.  Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

 

150 total.

 

https://www.dhs.gov/news/2025/11/20/homeland-security-task-force-operation-results-arrest-more-150-illegal-aliens-tren

 

resulting in the arrest of more than 150 illegal aliens including 27 suspected Tren de Aragua gang members. Law enforcement also seized cocaine, three firearms, and approximately $35,000 in cash.

 

Making San Antonio safer!

 

 

[cubsfan]

5 minutes ago, gfp said:

I already regret stumbling into this neighborhood of the forum, but one more story...

 

I am the "parent" of Eduardo who was completely undocumented in the United States, having crossed the border from Mexico with no papers.  We raised him from age 15 and he is an adult now, almost 26 years old.  He didn't even have a Mexican birth certificate, no paper trail whatsoever.

 

Because I am very good at research and paperwork and dealing with the State Department, Mexican Government, and annoying the Social Security administration staffers until they finally give in, he has a US Passport, a Social Security card, a USCIS certificate of citizenship and a birth certificate (Mexican).

 

But you know what?  When I talk to him on the phone now (he lives in rural Missouri currently), he sounds just like the rest of you guys complaining about the "Illegals" !

 

Unbelievable.  What do they call that - pulling up the ladder behind you or something like that?  

 

edit:  I'm running back to the value investing portion of the forum and I'm gonna forget what I saw over here on the dark side and think of you all as kind and gentle people just like that Jesus I hear so much about!

 

That's a wonderful story @gfp - God bless the kid!

[73 Reds]

10 minutes ago, John Hjorth said:

 

The basic logic in what I posted still stands, @Sweet. That does not make your comment irrelevant, it's a criteria about which of the four boxes to allocate a given person to. I deliberately phrased it so that I was not bringing my self in trouble, because I as a Northern European citizen have no clue about the legal framework steering this allocation.

John, its mostly semantics.  For my $, all otherwise law-abiding illegals should be permitted an opportunity to stay, with conditions.  The first condition is they must identify themselves as illegals.  Then they should have to pay a fair penalty and earn their permanent stay, commensurate with what anyone else wishing to gain citizenship would have to do.  Those choosing not to self-report and begin the process are gone.   Seems so simply but for inept politicians. 

[cubsfan]

24 minutes ago, 73 Reds said:

John, its mostly semantics.  For my $, all otherwise law-abiding illegals should be permitted an opportunity to stay, with conditions.  The first condition is they must identify themselves as illegals.  Then they should have to pay a fair penalty and earn their permanent stay, commensurate with what anyone else wishing to gain citizenship would have to do.  Those choosing not to self-report and begin the process are gone.   Seems so simply but for inept politicians. 

 

Yup, best post of the day.

[LC]

37 minutes ago, 73 Reds said:

law-abiding illegals

 

You guys are hilarious 

[John Hjorth]

1 hour ago, 73 Reds said:

John, its mostly semantics.  For my $, all otherwise law-abiding illegals should be permitted an opportunity to stay, with conditions.  The first condition is they must identify themselves as illegals.  Then they should have to pay a fair penalty and earn their permanent stay, commensurate with what anyone else wishing to gain citizenship would have to do.  Those choosing not to self-report and begin the process are gone.   Seems so simply but for inept politicians. 

 

36 minutes ago, cubsfan said:

Yup, best post of the day.

 

@73 Reds and Mike [ @cubsfan ],

 

That is exctly where the chain on the bicycle jumps off for you, and it saturates all argumentation here in this topic from you about the matter hand here. It's not for you to decide nor have an opinion about, it should be the US justice system for any unhappy and dissatisfified with in which box to be allocated to, to get it tried and tested in the US legal system, that's certainly not 'mostly semantics'.

Edited November 20, 2025 by John Hjorth

[73 Reds]

2 minutes ago, John Hjorth said:

 

 

@73 Reds and Mike [ @cubsfan ],

 

That is exctly where the chain on the bicycle jumps off for you, and it saturates all argumentation here in this topic from you about the matter hand here. It's not for you to decide nor have an opinion about, it should be the US justice system for any unhappy and dissatisfified with in which box to be allocated to, to get it tried and tested in the US legal system, that's certainly 'not mostly semantics'.

John, all due respect, arguing the definition of "criminal" in this context is semantics.  They broke the law.  Happy now? 

Edited November 20, 2025 by 73 Reds
missed word

[cubsfan]

30 minutes ago, 73 Reds said:

John, all due respect, arguing the definition of "criminal" in this context is semantics.  They broke the law.  Happy now? 

 

I'm glad you answered @John Hjorth - cause I have NO idea what he just said.

All I could figure out is he doesn't care for my opinion.

 

Now that is a shocker! LOL

[Spekulatius]

Yea, but the USA and Allied did not best the Nazis by cozying up to them. I don’t have a strong view on MBS and the Saudis but they are not our friends. They play both sides, trade with Russia, (white wash their oil), China - whatever, any dealing with them should be transactional at best.

 

Also, the numbers do notmake sense. the Saudis won’t invest a trillion in the USA because they simply don’t have the money. their wealth fund is only ~$950B and they run a fiscal deficit of $60B. the law of large numbers that make no sense.

 

https://www.whitehouse.gov/fact-sheets/2025/11/fact-sheet-president-donald-j-trump-solidifies-economic-and-defense-partnership-with-the-kingdom-of-saudi-arabia/

 

Everyone (even the Swiss) figured out by now that you just need to pay a little personal tribute to get tariffs lowered from 39% to 15%:

https://www.axios.com/2025/11/14/trump-swiss-gifts-gold-rolex

 

I wonder when Putin gets the idea just to invest a billion in Trump’s bribecoin and bring some gold for Trumps library in exchange for Ukraine.

Edited November 21, 2025 by Spekulatius

[Grenville]

9 hours ago, gfp said:

I already regret stumbling into this neighborhood of the forum, but one more story...

 

I am the "parent" of Eduardo who was completely undocumented in the United States, having crossed the border from Mexico with no papers.  We raised him from age 15 and he is an adult now, almost 26 years old.  He didn't even have a Mexican birth certificate, no paper trail whatsoever.

 

Because I am very good at research and paperwork and dealing with the State Department, Mexican Government, and annoying the Social Security administration staffers until they finally give in, he has a US Passport, a Social Security card, a USCIS certificate of citizenship and a birth certificate (Mexican).

 

But you know what?  When I talk to him on the phone now (he lives in rural Missouri currently), he sounds just like the rest of you guys complaining about the "Illegals" !

 

Unbelievable.  What do they call that - pulling up the ladder behind you or something like that?  

 

edit:  I'm running back to the value investing portion of the forum and I'm gonna forget what I saw over here on the dark side and think of you all as kind and gentle people just like that Jesus I hear so much about!

beautiful story, kudos to you for being a human and being selfless to this kid! I wish more of us treated each other like humans instead of what we’ve become. 
 

you have my respect

[Spekulatius]

17 hours ago, gfp said:

I already regret stumbling into this neighborhood of the forum, but one more story...

 

I am the "parent" of Eduardo who was completely undocumented in the United States, having crossed the border from Mexico with no papers.  We raised him from age 15 and he is an adult now, almost 26 years old.  He didn't even have a Mexican birth certificate, no paper trail whatsoever.

 

Because I am very good at research and paperwork and dealing with the State Department, Mexican Government, and annoying the Social Security administration staffers until they finally give in, he has a US Passport, a Social Security card, a USCIS certificate of citizenship and a birth certificate (Mexican).

 

But you know what?  When I talk to him on the phone now (he lives in rural Missouri currently), he sounds just like the rest of you guys complaining about the "Illegals" !

 

Unbelievable.  What do they call that - pulling up the ladder behind you or something like that?  

 

edit:  I'm running back to the value investing portion of the forum and I'm gonna forget what I saw over here on the dark side and think of you all as kind and gentle people just like that Jesus I hear so much about!

Yes, pulling up the latter behind you is what seems to be happening.

 

For example @cubsfan mom came here from cuba as I understand it fleeing Castro. no dice she would be here with current emigration rules. That also means Cubsfan would be on Cuba if he were born at all.

 

I came here with a H1B visa. No dice for me either since I don’t think the relatively small company I started to work would have spent $100k for a H1B, nor would they have been able to bribe Trump for an exception.

 

My wife’s family came here through her Mom overstaying a tourist Visa in the early 80’s and starting to work in a Sweat shop (literally) in San Franscisco. Then she legalized through an emigration attorney, got her kids here later also legal. the same thing became harder and harder in the 90’s and would be impossible now.

 

One reason we have so many illegals immigrants is that it became impossible to legalize for most, especially after 9/11/2001 when the phobia against foreigners and immigration really started to emerge (imo).

 

Now you can argue what is right and wrong here and I am not a fan of uncontrolled emigration but I find it also mentally difficult to pull up a ladder behind me after I made it, but I guess others don’t have that issue.

[73 Reds]

34 minutes ago, Spekulatius said:

Yes, pulling up the latter behind you is what seems to be happening.

 

For example @cubsfan mom came here from cuba as I understand it fleeing Castro. no dice she would be here with current emigration rules. That also means Cubsfan would be on Cuba if he were born at all.

 

I came here with a H1B visa. No dice for me either since I don’t think the relatively small company I started to work would have spent $100k for a H1B, nor would they have been able to bribe Trump for an exception.

 

My wife’s family came here through her Mom overstaying a tourist Visa in the early 80’s and starting to work in a Sweat shop (literally) in San Franscisco. Then she legalized through an emigration attorney, got her kids here later also legal. the same thing became harder and harder in the 90’s and would be impossible now.

 

One reason we have so many illegals immigrants is that it became impossible to legalize for most, especially after 9/11/2001 when the phobia against foreigners and immigration really started to emerge (imo).

 

Now you can argue what is right and wrong here and I am not a fan of uncontrolled emigration but I find it also mentally difficult to pull up a ladder behind me after I made it, but I guess others don’t have that issue.

But that's the precise issue - uncontrolled immigration.  Why is this such a difficult concept to understand?

[Marco Van Basten]

1 hour ago, Spekulatius said:

Yes, pulling up the latter behind you is what seems to be happening.

 

For example @cubsfan mom came here from cuba as I understand it fleeing Castro. no dice she would be here with current emigration rules. That also means Cubsfan would be on Cuba if he were born at all.

 

I came here with a H1B visa. No dice for me either since I don’t think the relatively small company I started to work would have spent $100k for a H1B, nor would they have been able to bribe Trump for an exception.

 

My wife’s family came here through her Mom overstaying a tourist Visa in the early 80’s and starting to work in a Sweat shop (literally) in San Franscisco. Then she legalized through an emigration attorney, got her kids here later also legal. the same thing became harder and harder in the 90’s and would be impossible now.

 

One reason we have so many illegals immigrants is that it became impossible to legalize for most, especially after 9/11/2001 when the phobia against foreigners and immigration really started to emerge (imo).

 

Now you can argue what is right and wrong here and I am not a fan of uncontrolled emigration but I find it also mentally difficult to pull up a ladder behind me after I made it, but I guess others don’t have that issue.

Spek, more immigration = higher housing costs, more environmental degradation and lower wages.  It also allows us to ignore the problems with our educational system.  

[dealraker]

12 minutes ago, Marco Van Basten said:

Spek, more immigration = higher housing costs, more environmental degradation and lower wages.  It also allows us to ignore the problems with our educational system.  

Or is immigration an easily planned and solved problem deliberately not solved, instead used for politics and votes? 

 

Edited November 21, 2025 by dealraker

[gfp]

9 minutes ago, Marco Van Basten said:

Spek, more immigration = higher housing costs, more environmental degradation and lower wages.  It also allows us to ignore the problems with our educational system.  

 

I remember when I was a young child and I asked my Mom, "Mommy, where do houses come from?" and she didn't say anything.  Just pointed at the group of Latino men loading supplies into their truck at 5am