Political Posts

[73 Reds]

6 minutes ago, dealraker said:

Reds I think you've been overcome by the Trump narrative, the only possible factor that could cloud your view of the past. The sentence about Nixon is however accurate but only as it relates to our great flexibility for allowing Trump to have no accountability, others would not escape Nixon type actions.  

Hillary Clinton created the "Russian Hoax" that dwarfs Watergate and what happened?  To date, nothing.  The temperature during the time of "All in the Family" (1971-1979) was nowhere near as heated as today.  You are correct that much of this has to do with anti-Trump groupthink.  Has nothing to do with what I believe or have been overcome by; it's simply the way it is.  A more appropriate question is "why"?

Edited September 13, 2025 by 73 Reds
words

[moatrep]

This death is caused directly by a rethoric of acusing your debaters or politicals opponents of nazis, facist, etc. This rethoric will be legal until it is not. I mean you cannot go like that in Russia or China. Only in the free world you can go like that. And newspaper and corporations with cash flow push this rethoroc without facing consecuenses. You start to fine this behaviour and it will be reduced to a healthy level. Once you fine the corporations, newspapers, media, universities, you will come to a healthy level, but until them this will only scalate more and more. The left lacks the christian values as a back bone, the values that shape the society that we live in. Kirk was a good agent of the right, you will have right wing agents in the nihilistic spectrum, that will be the fascist that somewhat you will be justified to go against. Here it would be the opposite. Leftist are getting more radicalize because of nihilism, conservatives somewhat turn into religion when they go deeper, and that works against radicalization. Talking as a group, of course. Religion shaped america, the world war 2 that shaped the world was also a struggle of religions. But somehow the intellectuals rationalized everything and now the United States is ship that is loosing it's direction. Freedom is in danger more than ever.

[moatrep]

Morality is impossible to rationalize. It shapes the world because of thousand and thousands of years of wars, where people invested it's blood for it. Not an ideology of paper, a real social construct that we are risking to loose pretty soon. That is what most people defended up to the end of world war 2, that is what shapes the world and the role of america. The social construct that won over the others, were people invested their resources to get freedom, to live the lives that they want to live. That is what people like Kirk is defending against the radical left that is the opposite, and against many corporations that called him and others nazi. In short calling him radical right (what caused this assassination imo) like the mainstream media has done, it's nuts.

If we loose America were we will look to invest for morality into? Will we give or blood to which nation and which constitution? Or should we try to preserve what our ancestors fought for (for thousand of years if you follow christianity, for 200 years if we follow the US constitution). Maybe religion is the best investment in morality seeing how fragile are countries. Religion as the christian tradition, not so much the faith is what I personally think will give the best rom (return on morality). But the risk of people wanting to rationalize and create sound idealogies in paper, totally ignoring the investment vehicle that is this moral construct, is what can end up in tragedy and send us into the downfall of this cycle.

Edited September 13, 2025 by moatrep

[dealraker]

I think many of you guys fail to see how perfectly obvious it is that certain type people thrive in finding a selling pitch and then working it for dollars.  Kirk attained wealth from his manipulations and fantasy deliveries as does Trump, but success in this model it isn't a one sided thing at all --- the so called liberal themes are great models for persuaders as well.  

 

After I got old I went for a fourth college masters degree, one that greatly helped investing and clarifying people's endeavors through a more accurate perception of human behavior.  I ended up having two young people spend their last ten tears of pre college life with me 100% because of a parent's endless obsessive chase of a one-stop shopping intolerant authority for religion and politics.  A parent easily sold who often changed idols, but who went all in the to the water of whatever solve all presentation of the moment--- like our now absent but most dominant poster here --- with a 350 Chevy engine block chained to the ankles.

 

A skilled manipulator is simple nadir reality for many.  It is as simple as that.  Anything can be successfully sold, and that is literally anything.  People vastly over complicate a manipulators's use of power and persuasion, their success in making followers into puppets of rage and conflict.

[Marco Van Basten]

1 hour ago, dealraker said:

I think many of you guys fail to see how perfectly obvious it is that certain type people thrive in finding a selling pitch and then working it for dollars.  Kirk attained wealth from his manipulations and fantasy deliveries as does Trump, but success in this model it isn't a one sided thing at all --- the so called liberal themes are great models for persuaders as well.  

 

After I got old I went for a fourth college masters degree, one that greatly helped investing and clarifying people's endeavors through a more accurate perception of human behavior.  I ended up having two young people spend their last ten tears of pre college life with me 100% because of a parent's endless obsessive chase of a one-stop shopping intolerant authority for religion and politics.  A parent easily sold who often changed idols, but who went all in the to the water of whatever solve all presentation of the moment--- like our now absent but most dominant poster here --- with a 350 Chevy engine block chained to the ankles.

 

A skilled manipulator is simple nadir reality for many.  It is as simple as that.  Anything can be successfully sold, and that is literally anything.  People vastly over complicate a manipulators's use of power and persuasion, their success in making followers into puppets of rage and conflict.

Charlie, could you please share what that fourth master's degree was in?  Thank you.

[Spekulatius]

19 hours ago, Parsad said:

 

You guys know I'm joking right? 

 

It was actually her mother!    Cheers!

Well to win over the daughter , you have to go through the mother first, although I never thought in such literal terms.

[oscarazocar]

2 hours ago, 73 Reds said:

Sanjeev, Viet Nam was ending; Presidents' lives were not being threatened; inflation was an issue but that was hardly divisive because it affected everyone; Nixon was impeached for activity that today would be punishable by a slap on the wrist, if at all.  Get some perspective.  

 

In September 1975, there were two serious assassination attempts on President Ford within a few weeks of each other.  In one case, the woman attemped to fire a gun at Ford from two feet away.  She hadn't correctly loaded a round into the chamber so the shot didn't go off, and she was tackled by Secret Service.  In the other case, the woman got off two rounds from 40 feet away, one missing Ford's head by 5 inches, the other striking a bystander.

 

https://www.history.com/articles/gerald-ford-assassination-attempts-1975-lessons

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attempted_assassination_of_Gerald_Ford_in_Sacramento

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attempted_assassination_of_Gerald_Ford_in_San_Francisco

 

Bryan Burroughs, co-author of the excellent Barbarians at the Gate, wrote a terrific book a few years ago on radical violence in the 1970's, Days of Rage, that I highly recommend.  The number of politically motivated bombings and hijackings then dwarfs what we see today.

 

https://www.amazon.com/Days-Rage-Underground-Forgotten-Revolutionary/dp/0143107976

[Spekulatius]

3 hours ago, moatrep said:

Morality is impossible to rationalize. It shapes the world because of thousand and thousands of years of wars, where people invested it's blood for it. Not an ideology of paper, a real social construct that we are risking to loose pretty soon. That is what most people defended up to the end of world war 2, that is what shapes the world and the role of america. The social construct that won over the others, were people invested their resources to get freedom, to live the lives that they want to live. That is what people like Kirk is defending against the radical left that is the opposite, and against many corporations that called him and others nazi. In short calling him radical right (what caused this assassination imo) like the mainstream media has done, it's nuts.

If we loose America were we will look to invest for morality into? Will we give or blood to which nation and which constitution? Or should we try to preserve what our ancestors fought for (for thousand of years if you follow christianity, for 200 years if we follow the US constitution). Maybe religion is the best investment in morality seeing how fragile are countries. Religion as the christian tradition, not so much the faith is what I personally think will give the best rom (return on morality). But the risk of people wanting to rationalize and create sound idealogies in paper, totally ignoring the investment vehicle that is this moral construct, is what can end up in tragedy and send us into the downfall of this cycle.

I think you are wrong about religion. America was not designed as a religious state- the founding father were very smart and ahead of their time on this matter. Religion has nothing to do with WW2 either as the Nazis readily enlisted religion for their cause.

 

I think religion had justification to create a legitimacy and foundation for nation but that was 1500 years ago. In the medieval ages relation started act as break and human progress ever since and I think we would be better off without them altogether. I’d we had abandoned religion around 1000 AD altogether, there had been much less wars and I think  humans would be 100-200 years more technologically advanced than we are now.

Edited September 13, 2025 by Spekulatius

[Spekulatius]

1 minute ago, oscarazocar said:

 

In September 1975, there were two serious assassination attempts on President Ford within a few weeks of each other.  In one case, the woman attemped to fire a gun at Ford from two feet away.  She hadn't correctly loaded a round into the chamber so the shot didn't go off, and she was tackled by Secret Service.  In the other case, the woman got off two rounds from 40 feet away, one missing Ford's head by 5 inches, the other striking a bystander.

 

https://www.history.com/articles/gerald-ford-assassination-attempts-1975-lessons

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attempted_assassination_of_Gerald_Ford_in_Sacramento

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attempted_assassination_of_Gerald_Ford_in_San_Francisco

 

Bryan Burroughs, co-author of the excellent Barbarians at the Gate, wrote a terrific book a few years ago on radical violence in the 1970's, Days of Rage, that I highly recommend.  The number of politically motivated bombings and hijackings then dwarfs what we see today.

 

https://www.amazon.com/Days-Rage-Underground-Forgotten-Revolutionary/dp/0143107976

Crime rate were so much higher overall in the 60’s and 70’s that I don’t get how anyone would want to have those “good times” back. Thats even discounting the Vietnam war debacle.

[whiskybravo]

51 minutes ago, Spekulatius said:

I think you are wonrg about religion. America was not designed as a religious state- the founding father were very smart and ahead of their time on this matter. Religion has nothing to do with WW2 either as the Nazis readily enlisted religion for their cause.

 

I think religion had justification to create a legitimacy and foundation for nation but that was 1500 years ago. In the medieval ages relation started act as break and human progress ever since and I think we would be better off without them altogether. I’d we had abandoned religion around 1000 AD altogether, there had been much less wars and I think  humans would be 100-200 years more technologically advanced than we are now.

 

That’s one way to look at it, but I think Moat’s point about religion is about cultural resilience. The argument isn’t that religion made America or won WWII, but that religious tradition provided a moral framework that helped hold Western societies together.

 

Moat’s posts reminded me of views I’ve heard from people who grew up in former Soviet countries. A lot of them are really skeptical of the Western left.  Not because of economics, but because of how ideology tends to creep into media, schools, and institutions.

 

For them, things like calling someone a fascist feels familiar as a way to shut down debate. They’ve seen how moral certainty can become a weapon. And Christian tradition often gets seen as the last line of defense, not just for religion, but for preserving a deeper moral order that resists that kind of top down control.

 

 

Edited September 13, 2025 by whiskybravo

[SharperDingaan]

We live in a world where we have the technology to both greatly manipulate and fine tune a minority message in real time. If I tell you that black is white, millions of times over, via an increasing number of different sources, and periodically reward for accepting the 'new reality' ..... you will eventually accept it. A standard interrogation technique, and well documented in the various propaganda manuals.

 

Of course it isn't new, there have always been people very good at it, but control largely remains the same; problems encounter an untimely end. Before the Russians switched to high buildings, bathtubs were very dangerous places.

 

Friends advise that the radical is only as good as their chief publicist/strategist; conveniently kept out of the public eye. A small 'elimination' in the 'brain-trust' often has a disproportionate chilling effect. Would the French far-right leader Marine Le Pen really have the same influence, were some of her key people suddenly no longer there? Statecraft.

 

Back in the day the British were losing to the 'troubles' in Ireland; until they eventually learned to stop playing nice, and bug the coffins of prominent opponents. Everytime a prominent opponent got shot, the leadership would use the opportunity to publicly meet around the coffin and discuss 'business'. Not long thereafter there would be another sudden organisational change, and another coffin.

 

Point? It would appear that the pendulum has begun to swing back, and playtime is over.

 

SD

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 13, 2025 by SharperDingaan

[Eldad]

At least it now seems that people on the left are being swiftly fired for their inappropriate reactions to CK death. That treatment was not equal before. 

Edited September 13, 2025 by Eldad

[Sweet]

12 hours ago, Parsad said:

was talking about the 1960's and 1970's...73Reds has an extremely rosy view of what it was like back then.  There was as much divisiveness...even more than today

Thanks for clarifying.  I don’t know much about that period.  I was referring to late 80s, 90s and early 00s.

 

Edited September 13, 2025 by Sweet

[Spekulatius]

On 9/11/2025 at 8:29 PM, Spekulatius said:

Since I live in Charlotte - this has gotten pretty decent media coverage locally. Why do you have think a single murder deserves national coverage?  Murders do occur every day.

Actually, if you really want to know why this incident deserves more attention, check the full video that was released and in particular the aftermath. There were half a dozen of people on this train wagon while the. murder happened who all happened to look way or pretended to see nothing and scrolled on their phone. two guys carefully stepped around the blood spots on the floor.

 

Perhaps better not to watch it if you want to keep your faith in humans. I don’t know what I would have done either.

 

You can make whatever you want into this - a dangerous criminal who should not be out there, DEI (not sure what it has to do with it but have at it), or a public murder in a commuter train (which I have used myself on occasion).

 

For me, the part of the story that is most relevant that this fellow can murder a woman in a train and the people around do nothing and keep looking away or at their phones. No politics, just apathy.

Edited September 13, 2025 by Spekulatius

[dealraker]

8 hours ago, Marco Van Basten said:

Charlie, could you please share what that fourth master's degree was in?  Thank you.

LOL...I have - as termed by the university at the time of my graduation -  a masters of management and a masters in counseling and psychology.  The management one is still named that today but I'm not sure where the counseling/psychology one is presently as far as wording or curriculum.  Sort of interesting that the counseling psychology program was headed by Dr. Mary Burke, a nun, who kicked anyone who even mentioned religion out of the program immediately.  She was legendary in the Charlotte community, particularly the Charlotte business community that kept her in a new model Mercedes her entire reign!

Edited September 13, 2025 by dealraker

[Eldad]

1 hour ago, Spekulatius said:

Actually, if you really want to know why this incident deserves more attention, check the full video that was released and in particular the aftermath. There were half a dozen of people on this train wagon while the. murder happened who all happened to look way or pretended to see nothing and scrolled on their phone. two guys carefully stepped around the blood spots on the floor.

 

Perhaps better not to watch it if you want to keep your faith in humans. I don’t know what I would have done either.

 

You can make whatever you want into this - a dangerous criminal who should not be out there, DEI (not sure what it has to do with it but have at it), or a public murder in a commuter train (which I have used myself on occasion).

 

For me, the part of the story that is most relevant that this fellow can murder a woman in a train and the people around do nothing and keep looking away or at their phones. No politics, just apathy.

Bystander effect or Genovese effect is unfortunately real and has been around a long time. But looking at your phone is another level. Probably thinking “don’t make eye contact” but still horrifying apathy/cowardice. I’m not going to watch it. 

[Eldad]

Killer had a trans partner. Ouch that doesn’t help. 

[Sweet]

40 minutes ago, Eldad said:

Killer had a trans partner. Ouch that doesn’t help. 

Would like to wait and see it confirmed by a couple more sources before I start believing that.

 

Funny seeing some people like Bill Maher saying, ‘oh we don’t know his politics’ lol.  

 

Come on, stop worrying about sanitising your side.  The whole left vs right stuff is generalised bs anyway, it’s a sloppy and lazy characterisation.  
 

Call it what it is, extremism.  Those extremists types, ‘left or right’, have much more important things in common with each other than they do to centrist ‘left and right’ - like I’d kill you disagreeing with me.

 

And the permanently hyper political people are a major problem.  Bill Maher again, the guy has nothing in his life other than politics, it’s his religion.  Ben Shapiro types as well, although at least Ben actually has other things going on (Jewish, family etc) - it’s not his entire shtick unlike Maher.

 

 

Edited September 13, 2025 by Sweet

[Spekulatius]

4 hours ago, dealraker said:

LOL...I have - as termed by the university at the time of my graduation -  a masters of management and a masters in counseling and psychology.  The management one is still named that today but I'm not sure where the counseling/psychology one is presently as far as wording or curriculum.  Sort of interesting that the counseling psychology program was headed by Dr. Mary Burke, a nun, who kicked anyone who even mentioned religion out of the program immediately.  She was legendary in the Charlotte community, particularly the Charlotte business community that kept her in a new model Mercedes her entire reign!

Psychology may be more usefully than any other liberal arts degree for investing. Thinking fast and also from Kahnemann is a must read for everyone interested in investing.

[dealraker]

3 minutes ago, Spekulatius said:

Psychology may be more usefully than any other liberal arts degree for investing. Thinking fast and also from Kahnemann is a must read for everyone interested in investing.

Charlie Munger's "The Psychology of Human Misjudgment" talks/writings come to mind too.  And Robert Cialdini's Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion!

[Eldad]

I didn’t get very far into it, psychology,  but at the entry level it seemed like the science of proving common sense. You did an experiment to prove dogs like food and remember the conditions of the times before when they got food? Why? 
 

But a lot of things are like that. Mendel is called the father of genetics because he realized a tall pea plant and a short pea plant would have both tall and short offspring? LOL That had been obvious to cavemen. Mendel just wrote it down in an academic way first (as far as we know). 

Edited September 14, 2025 by Eldad

[Spekulatius]

2 hours ago, Eldad said:

Killer had a trans partner. Ouch that doesn’t help. 

Why do you think it matters ?

 

The fellow grow up in Trumper environment , somehow became extremist without having clear cut political views. And then decided to shoot Kirk because he “doesn’t like the guy”. Upthread MSM and all sort of things gets blamed, but my guess is people at his age don’t really consume MSM at all. Everyone has an answer but nobody has a clue. Background checks for weapon possession would do very little as he had no blemishes on his background checks.

 

Best I can tell he was piggybacking on the Trump shooter as the case looks eerily similar. I don’t really think we can learn anything from this nor prevent similar crimes from happening in the future.

[Spekulatius]

6 minutes ago, Eldad said:

I didn’t get very far into it, psychology,  but at the entry level it seemed like the science of proving common sense. You did an experiment to prove dogs like food and remember the conditions of the times before when they got food? Why? 
 

But a lot of things are like that. Mendel is called the father of genetics because he realized a tall pea plant and a short pea plant would have both tall and short offspring? LOL That had been obvious to cavemen. Mendel just wrote it down in an academic way first (as far as we know). 

I doubt the cavemen knew about recessive and dominant genes. When you look at the progress made in breeding plants and animals since Mendel published his findings and before you may find a hockey stick chart. Of course it was not Mendel alone, there were scientists before him and after him. Fundamental breakthroughs matters as luck and chance is much slower than systematic deduction and experimentation.

[Eldad]

2 minutes ago, Spekulatius said:

Why do you think it matters ?

 

The fellow grow up in Trumper environment , somehow became extremist without having clear cut political views. And then decided to shoot Kirk because he “doesn’t like the guy”. Upthread MSM and all sort of things gets blamed, but my guess is people at his age don’t really consume MSM at all. Everyone has an answer but nobody has a clue. Background checks for weapon possession would do very little as he had no blemishes on his background checks.

 

Best I can tell he was piggybacking on the Trump shooter as the case looks eerily similar. I don’t really think we can learn anything from this nor prevent similar crimes from happening in the future.

I’m not trying to draw any conclusions.   Just the association will probably fan the flames.
 

For example cubsfan predicted it would be a trans person or trans activist and Parsad had a strong reaction and threatened to ban him. Without getting into the why, I just know it is. 
 

 

[Eldad]

Just now, Spekulatius said:

I doubt the cavemen knew about recessive and dominant genes. When you look at the progress made in breeding plants and animals since Mendel published his findings and before you may find a hockey stick chart. Of course it was not Mendel alone, there were scientists before him and after him. Fundamental breakthroughs matters as luck and chance is much slower than systematic deduction and experimentation.

So ancient herdsmen didn’t realize these things when they were selectively breeding their animals? People have always been intelligent and most learning comes from experience even if they didn’t bother to write a book about it.