When Will You Take a Vaccine?

[SouthernYankee]

"It just won't take with them."

 

-Seriously? Very silly statement. Fauci has flip-flopped more than a politician the last year, even more than he did in his previous 30+ years as a government hack.

 

"The problem is that there is an inherent skepticism for science and statistics."

 

-I think skepticism is the key to science, not the problem.

 

As for statistics, as a US citizen, I see 50 states worth of data. Eventually, I will look to live in a state like Fl, SD, TX, etc, where there seems to be more of a balance between freedom and government "caring". 

 

I don't understand why those willing to take the vaccine have to say anything about those who won't. I know I don't opine on your decision to take it. I stated my reasons to not take the vaccine prior to this, so go back and check them out. Beyond that, take your "for the common good" claptrap and stick it.

 

Cheers!

[AzCactus]

"It just won't take with them."

 

-Seriously? Very silly statement. Fauci has flip-flopped more than a politician the last year, even more than he did in his previous 30+ years as a government hack.

 

"The problem is that there is an inherent skepticism for science and statistics."

 

-I think skepticism is the key to science, not the problem.

 

As for statistics, as a US citizen, I see 50 states worth of data. Eventually, I will look to live in a state like Fl, SD, TX, etc, where there seems to be more of a balance between freedom and government "caring". 

 

I don't understand why those willing to take the vaccine have to say anything about those who won't. I know I don't opine on your decision to take it. I stated my reasons to not take the vaccine prior to this, so go back and check them out. Beyond that, take your "for the common good" claptrap and stick it.

 

Cheers!

 

+100

[Parsad]

"It just won't take with them."

 

-Seriously? Very silly statement. Fauci has flip-flopped more than a politician the last year, even more than he did in his previous 30+ years as a government hack.

 

"The problem is that there is an inherent skepticism for science and statistics."

 

-I think skepticism is the key to science, not the problem.

 

As for statistics, as a US citizen, I see 50 states worth of data. Eventually, I will look to live in a state like Fl, SD, TX, etc, where there seems to be more of a balance between freedom and government "caring". 

 

I don't understand why those willing to take the vaccine have to say anything about those who won't. I know I don't opine on your decision to take it. I stated my reasons to not take the vaccine prior to this, so go back and check them out. Beyond that, take your "for the common good" claptrap and stick it.

 

Cheers!

 

First, I didn't say you should take the vaccine...that's your choice.  And I certainly wasn't specifically talking about you...so not sure why you flipped out on me.

 

Second, your discounting the opinion of all health officials in virtually every country around the entire world.  Again your choice.

 

Lastly, I said that getting the bulk of citizens inoculated will benefit society, even if others don't get it.  Again, no mention of you or anyone specifically.

 

Cheers! 

[wachtwoord]

Why is never not an option here?

 

Why get inoculated for polio or hepatitis?  Because the cost/benefit ratio is extraordinary.

 

Cause Polio is actually dangerous and the available vaccines are well tested and in use for a long time (making the chance of unknown long term side effects negligable). I'm innocolated for a number of other dangerous deseases (the ones that I'm likely enough to run into) with tried and true vaccines available.

 

I don't take vaccines for non-dangerous deseases, it' much wiser to let your own imune system handle it. It's not like I get the yearly flu shot (do you?) and influenza viruses are generally much more dangerous than Corona viruses. Furthermore the available deseases are not even out of stage 2 testing.And we didn't even start talking about possible unknown long term side effects.

 

In fact, I would call taking this vaccine reckless if you fall outside the primary risk groups (and unwise otherwise). I consider injecting your children with this failing at your parental duty of care.

 

The politicians are also highly reckless in my opinion. Vaccination 101 is that you don't start vaccinating during an active outbreak as that risks strengthening the virus. Aren't we in one right now? Dangerous game they are playing with all of our futures ...

 

I don't take issue with you being concerned about taking a new and unproven vaccine.

 

I do take issue with underselling the dangers of Covid though. With 550k dead in the US in just a year, and near 3 million worldwide, I would think this has proven far deadlier than polio ever was.

 

And while polio paralyzed just 0.5% of people who caught it (see attached), Covid is estimated to cause long term cardiovascular and/or respiratory issues for up to 1/3 of people who have had it regardless if the severity of symptoms (source is CDC). And we still really don't know how severe that impact will be or HOW long it lasts.

 

So we can stop pretending like Polio was this big bad thing and Covid isn't. Covid, by the numbers, is way worse

 

The problem is that there is an inherent skepticism for science and statistics.  Masks, vaccines, etc seem no different among the skeptics than when they first heard about smoking being dangerous to your health.  It took decades to convince the skeptics.  We're expecting Fauci and others to convince these similarly-minded people that Covid is bad in less than two years.  It just won't take with them. 

 

Even though today, smokers are about as rare as a poodle with a mohawk, some continue smoking decades after the statistics were more than proven and they are treated as pariahs in society.  There will always be the diehards...but if you can get the bulk of the population to change behavior, get inocculated, etc...it still ends up benefitting society overall.  Cheers!

 

Dude now I am taking offense. I am a scientist by education and trade. The scientific method is the best method of truthfinding. Trying to paint me (and all others with a similar opinion) as science sketics (I am sceptic of people not science) is intelectual laziness at best and blatant manipulation at worst. It's literally using ad hominems to "win" your argument (meanwhile use ad auctoritatems to make your own point).

 

Please don't believe scientists blindly. Not everything they say is an outcome of the scientific method. They will also state things that are simply their opinion or make mistakes in study or analysis (papers on global warming tend to have large statistical mistakes mainly to do with statistical significance). Besides that, scientists are people with motivations: e.g. of selfish or political nature or coming out of fear. Stop worshipping people, that's an obvious mistake (look at history). Academia (not science!) is starting to take the position of organized religion in society based on how its used to contral people (not content wise of course).

 

Trust the scientific method, not a group of people society declared defacto experts that can only speak truth. That is an extremely naive notion. (for a historic example look at the communistic revolution in Russia).

 

Otherwise wouldnt all I say be true as well? ;)

 

Finally @TwocitiesCapital I am most definitely NOT underselling Corona (Covid-19). First it is less lethal than many flu outbreaks that occured over recent decades (and before you say: of course individual flu outbreaks tend to be more local, but there's a lot more of them).

 

Second: really, for people outside the risk groups you consider Corona dangerous based on the statistics? Now you are just being dishonest in an attempt to convince others (or you actually haven't analyzed the data in the proper context).

[StevieV]

We shouldn’t be skeptical of health officials, drug companies and government?  Huh. The same group that gave us trans fats for a couple decades.  The group that touted the widespread use of opioids.  The same group that has brought the public to unprecedented levels of obesity.

 

Health officials like Dr. Fauci who caused a panic that HIV could be spread by routine contact.  Like Niall Ferguson, an expert whose models are never right and can’t follow his own rules.  Officials like Dr. Rachel Levine who sent COVID patients back to nursing homes, while taking their own mother out.  Authorities that harmfully put too many people on ventilators early in the pandemic.

 

We shouldn’t question it when officials say that Georgia and Florida’s actions were going to lead to disaster.  We shouldn’t question lockdowns and masks though prior to the pandemic it was common consensus that neither should be part of the response to a pandemic like COVID.  Even though you have to squint to try to see the effects of either among the states.

 

Who isn’t changing their mind with evidence?  How about people who want to keep schools closed even though children aren’t at particular risks and schools haven’t been shown to be big spreaders.  CDC officials who say 3 feet of distancing is fine until teacher unions tell them they need to recant and say 6 feet.  People who won’t even give any press to the only controlled real-world mask study we have.

 

If you want to argue that people should take the vaccine, that is one thing.  To suggest that skepticism is unwarranted and a bad thing, I can't disagree more.

[rolling]

Why is never not an option here?

 

Why get inoculated for polio or hepatitis?  Because the cost/benefit ratio is extraordinary.

 

Cause Polio is actually dangerous and the available vaccines are well tested and in use for a long time (making the chance of unknown long term side effects negligable). I'm innocolated for a number of other dangerous deseases (the ones that I'm likely enough to run into) with tried and true vaccines available.

 

I don't take vaccines for non-dangerous deseases, it' much wiser to let your own imune system handle it. It's not like I get the yearly flu shot (do you?) and influenza viruses are generally much more dangerous than Corona viruses. Furthermore the available deseases are not even out of stage 2 testing.And we didn't even start talking about possible unknown long term side effects.

 

In fact, I would call taking this vaccine reckless if you fall outside the primary risk groups (and unwise otherwise). I consider injecting your children with this failing at your parental duty of care.

 

The politicians are also highly reckless in my opinion. Vaccination 101 is that you don't start vaccinating during an active outbreak as that risks strengthening the virus. Aren't we in one right now? Dangerous game they are playing with all of our futures ...

 

I don't take issue with you being concerned about taking a new and unproven vaccine.

 

I do take issue with underselling the dangers of Covid though. With 550k dead in the US in just a year, and near 3 million worldwide, I would think this has proven far deadlier than polio ever was.

 

And while polio paralyzed just 0.5% of people who caught it (see attached), Covid is estimated to cause long term cardiovascular and/or respiratory issues for up to 1/3 of people who have had it regardless if the severity of symptoms (source is CDC). And we still really don't know how severe that impact will be or HOW long it lasts.

 

So we can stop pretending like Polio was this big bad thing and Covid isn't. Covid, by the numbers, is way worse

 

The problem is that there is an inherent skepticism for science and statistics.  Masks, vaccines, etc seem no different among the skeptics than when they first heard about smoking being dangerous to your health.  It took decades to convince the skeptics.  We're expecting Fauci and others to convince these similarly-minded people that Covid is bad in less than two years.  It just won't take with them. 

 

Even though today, smokers are about as rare as a poodle with a mohawk, some continue smoking decades after the statistics were more than proven and they are treated as pariahs in society.  There will always be the diehards...but if you can get the bulk of the population to change behavior, get inocculated, etc...it still ends up benefitting society overall.  Cheers!

 

Dude now I am taking offense. I am a scientist by education and trade. The scientific method is the best method of truthfinding. Trying to paint me (and all others with a similar opinion) as science sketics (I am sceptic of people not science) is intelectual laziness at best and blatant manipulation at worst. It's literally using ad hominems to "win" your argument (meanwhile use ad auctoritatems to make your own point).

 

Please don't believe scientists blindly. Not everything they say is an outcome of the scientific method. They will also state things that are simply their opinion or make mistakes in study or analysis (papers on global warming tend to have large statistical mistakes mainly to do with statistical significance). Besides that, scientists are people with motivations: e.g. of selfish or political nature or coming out of fear. Stop worshipping people, that's an obvious mistake (look at history). Academia (not science!) is starting to take the position of organized religion in society based on how its used to contral people (not content wise of course).

 

Trust the scientific method, not a group of people society declared defacto experts that can only speak truth. That is an extremely naive notion. (for a historic example look at the communistic revolution in Russia).

 

Otherwise wouldnt all I say be true as well? ;)

 

Finally @TwocitiesCapital I am most definitely NOT underselling Corona (Covid-19). First it is less lethal than many flu outbreaks that occured over recent decades (and before you say: of course individual flu outbreaks tend to be more local, but there's a lot more of them).

 

Second: really, for people outside the risk groups you consider Corona dangerous based on the statistics? Now you are just being dishonest in an attempt to convince others (or you actually haven't analyzed the data in the proper context).

You lethality argument only has one little flaw: since nobody had any kind of immunity there was, and still is, the possibility of a system overwhelm. Over here (even with masks, movement restrictions, healthcare professionals in vaccination process and commerce restrictions) we had it last january. It is ugly, lethality rose and in the absence of measures things would only have been worse. Get a truly overwhelmed system and the 0,6 or lower mortality will easily rise over 3% or even more (people waiting for death outside emergency rooms due to lack of space, people inside being chosen to live or let die, hospital oxygen systems collapsing (!!!)). Yes this is not the US, but the healthcare system is probably the best thing in this country, and still collapsed.

And then you have people dying from other diseases because of coronavirus overwhelm (these don't show up n the statistics). And people who decide the will rather die at home than waiting outside an emergency room... in a system overwhelm even low risk groups are at risk

 

[wachtwoord]

Why is never not an option here?

 

Why get inoculated for polio or hepatitis?  Because the cost/benefit ratio is extraordinary.

 

Cause Polio is actually dangerous and the available vaccines are well tested and in use for a long time (making the chance of unknown long term side effects negligable). I'm innocolated for a number of other dangerous deseases (the ones that I'm likely enough to run into) with tried and true vaccines available.

 

I don't take vaccines for non-dangerous deseases, it' much wiser to let your own imune system handle it. It's not like I get the yearly flu shot (do you?) and influenza viruses are generally much more dangerous than Corona viruses. Furthermore the available deseases are not even out of stage 2 testing.And we didn't even start talking about possible unknown long term side effects.

 

In fact, I would call taking this vaccine reckless if you fall outside the primary risk groups (and unwise otherwise). I consider injecting your children with this failing at your parental duty of care.

 

The politicians are also highly reckless in my opinion. Vaccination 101 is that you don't start vaccinating during an active outbreak as that risks strengthening the virus. Aren't we in one right now? Dangerous game they are playing with all of our futures ...

 

I don't take issue with you being concerned about taking a new and unproven vaccine.

 

I do take issue with underselling the dangers of Covid though. With 550k dead in the US in just a year, and near 3 million worldwide, I would think this has proven far deadlier than polio ever was.

 

And while polio paralyzed just 0.5% of people who caught it (see attached), Covid is estimated to cause long term cardiovascular and/or respiratory issues for up to 1/3 of people who have had it regardless if the severity of symptoms (source is CDC). And we still really don't know how severe that impact will be or HOW long it lasts.

 

So we can stop pretending like Polio was this big bad thing and Covid isn't. Covid, by the numbers, is way worse

 

The problem is that there is an inherent skepticism for science and statistics.  Masks, vaccines, etc seem no different among the skeptics than when they first heard about smoking being dangerous to your health.  It took decades to convince the skeptics.  We're expecting Fauci and others to convince these similarly-minded people that Covid is bad in less than two years.  It just won't take with them. 

 

Even though today, smokers are about as rare as a poodle with a mohawk, some continue smoking decades after the statistics were more than proven and they are treated as pariahs in society.  There will always be the diehards...but if you can get the bulk of the population to change behavior, get inocculated, etc...it still ends up benefitting society overall.  Cheers!

 

Dude now I am taking offense. I am a scientist by education and trade. The scientific method is the best method of truthfinding. Trying to paint me (and all others with a similar opinion) as science sketics (I am sceptic of people not science) is intelectual laziness at best and blatant manipulation at worst. It's literally using ad hominems to "win" your argument (meanwhile use ad auctoritatems to make your own point).

 

Please don't believe scientists blindly. Not everything they say is an outcome of the scientific method. They will also state things that are simply their opinion or make mistakes in study or analysis (papers on global warming tend to have large statistical mistakes mainly to do with statistical significance). Besides that, scientists are people with motivations: e.g. of selfish or political nature or coming out of fear. Stop worshipping people, that's an obvious mistake (look at history). Academia (not science!) is starting to take the position of organized religion in society based on how its used to contral people (not content wise of course).

 

Trust the scientific method, not a group of people society declared defacto experts that can only speak truth. That is an extremely naive notion. (for a historic example look at the communistic revolution in Russia).

 

Otherwise wouldnt all I say be true as well? ;)

 

Finally @TwocitiesCapital I am most definitely NOT underselling Corona (Covid-19). First it is less lethal than many flu outbreaks that occured over recent decades (and before you say: of course individual flu outbreaks tend to be more local, but there's a lot more of them).

 

Second: really, for people outside the risk groups you consider Corona dangerous based on the statistics? Now you are just being dishonest in an attempt to convince others (or you actually haven't analyzed the data in the proper context).

You lethality argument only has one little flaw: since nobody had any kind of immunity there was, and still is, the possibility of a system overwhelm. Over here (even with masks, movement restrictions, healthcare professionals in vaccination process and commerce restrictions) we had it last january. It is ugly, lethality rose and in the absence of measures things would only have been worse. Get a truly overwhelmed system and the 0,6 or lower mortality will easily rise over 3% or even more (people waiting for death outside emergency rooms due to lack of space, people inside being chosen to live or let die, hospital oxygen systems collapsing (!!!)). Yes this is not the US, but the healthcare system is probably the best thing in this country, and still collapsed.

And then you have people dying from other diseases because of coronavirus overwhelm (these don't show up n the statistics). And people who decide the will rather die at home than waiting outside an emergency room... in a system overwhelm even low risk groups are at risk

 

Nobody has (any) immunity? Against a Corona virus? Really?

 

Are you serious right now or taking the piss? :/

 

Edit:

 

For people reading actually wondering: With no immunity there'd be extinction rate death rates just like when the conquistadors introduced the flue and common cold (Corona) to the new world.

 

Why do people THIS unknowledgable are unaware they are unkowledgable AND like to spread their distorted views for absolute truths. It'd be hilarious if it wasnt so sad and scary.

[DooDiligence]

Donuts, not Dunkin donuts, but the gold standard of donuts, Krispy Kreme.

 

Now, someone give me shit over the way I spell donuts.

 

:)

[Cigarbutt]

FWIW,

Regularly, a part of the dialogue involves people asking for vaccines in general or vaccines for Covid-19. Does it work? Is it safe? (Is it part of a larger plan?)

Before answering and to prevent destroying the communication alliance, it's important to differentiate in which group the person belongs:

1st group: vaccine hesitancy

In this group, an engaging conversation that avoids direct confrontation and condescending remarks can help (fact and evidence sharing meshed with the conversation can help people to think and perhaps come closer to the other side)

2nd group: (small minority 2-5%?, but growing in this era)

In this group, the strategy used in the first group does NOT work and in fact has the opposite effect as there is a visceral tendency to recoil.

 

This is also a feature in certain investment threads: Tesla, Peloton, bitcoin. i'm not saying people who are long (or short) these ideas are wrong (or right), i'm just saying that visceral responses often take a larger role than fundamental analysis. It's an interesting phenomenon.

Sometimes, it's not clear where people belong and humor can be used for the evaluation phase and before using type 1 or type 2 strategy.

Donuts can do the trick. Sometimes it's beer and pizza.

[wachtwoord]

@cigarbutt Do you realize the strategies you describe are strategies of manipulation not strategies of how to argue a point? (and the direct and indirect implications of you choosing the former over the latter)

[Gregmal]

Interesting points from everyone. One really does need to wonder and be skeptical of much of the handling, especially the motive. For instance you had 25% crowd  capacity at sporting events in FL/TX etc, back in December and January, meanwhile in NY they didnt allow ANYTHING until a week or two ago and even still, its only 10%....when calls for doom and gloom are made, and the makers of the calls are WRONG, you NEVER get a mea culpa or an apology....you just get the next iteration of the agenda driven story or some stupid aphorism like "better safe than sorry". Much like how Ive regularly, for most of my career heard people saying the "doing this or that" in the markets will "eventually blow you up"....except when it never does they never eat their words they just double down on an unprovable reiteration of their same academically inspired jargon...at some point you have to just say fuck em. Theyre the ones who have no clue what they are doing. Which for private persons/businesses, is OK...as capitalism weeds this shit out. For public officials who have control over peoples lives....its entirely NOT acceptable.

 

Personally, Dr. Fauci was saying no masks at the height of the panic in March/April 2020 and now after being vaccinated he's wearing not one, but two masks. All I know is I dont want to be like THAT GUY....

 

 

I got the 1st shot a few weeks ago and am scheduled for the second one next week. I've done enough shit in my life that if a vaccine does me in....so be it.

[Spekulatius]

I would be interested to know what makes all of your eligible to get the vaccine. I thought I am one of the older guys here being in my mid fifties. Are hedge fund managers and financial advisors now a preferred group? I haven't seen anything on that regard in my state. ;D

 

I became eligible just a few days ago because I work in the medical supply chain (CO2 filters for respirators etc.). I booked an appointment for today and had to work the system at CVS because I was unable to simultaneously book a first and second appointment because there were no second ones available. So I signed up for my second shot in the system to get going. I think this was mentioned upstream as a workaround. Hopefully it works out.

 

The system in MA here sucks, but what really sucks is Europe. My parents are 79 and 84 and no visibility on when to get the vaccine. That's one thing that Trump's Warp speed team did largely right, they bet on the right vaccines and ordered quite a bit of them. Maybe not quite enough and could have been done better but also could have been a whole lot worse. Compared to Europe, we are in great shape as far as vaccine's are concerned.

[Gregmal]

Everyone on my wife's side of the family is a nurse. So probably preferential treatment lol. My attitude was that I'll get it when its available and I dont really care too much when that actually is. Could be next year for all I care. Mother in law said they had an opening and booked me for the following week. Shrugged my shoulders and said "ok"...its more important to other people than it is to me but in terms of peace of mind, especially for others in the family.....it is what it is.

 

I'd also caution anyone that they seemed to make a very big deal about "keeping the card"....the doctor indicated that doing so may be helpful for traveling in the future....

[Castanza]

Intellectuals will be "intellectuals"

 

 

 

 

[wachtwoord]

Intellectuals will be "intellectuals"

 

Be wary of anyone who refers to themselves using that term or accepts others doing so.

[AzCactus]

In Arizona anyone can sign up for a vaccine. 

[DooDiligence]

Everyone on my wife's side of the family is a nurse. So probably preferential treatment lol. My attitude was that I'll get it when its available and I dont really care too much when that actually is. Could be next year for all I care. Mother in law said they had an opening and booked me for the following week. Shrugged my shoulders and said "ok"...its more important to other people than it is to me but in terms of peace of mind, especially for others in the family.....it is what it is.

 

I'd also caution anyone that they seemed to make a very big deal about "keeping the card"....the doctor indicated that doing so may be helpful for traveling in the future....

 

Just to add to this; shot cards are not something new. I've had to maintain one for decades, in order to travel to areas where cholera, yellow fever, etc., are still present.

[Spekulatius]

Everyone on my wife's side of the family is a nurse. So probably preferential treatment lol. My attitude was that I'll get it when its available and I dont really care too much when that actually is. Could be next year for all I care. Mother in law said they had an opening and booked me for the following week. Shrugged my shoulders and said "ok"...its more important to other people than it is to me but in terms of peace of mind, especially for others in the family.....it is what it is.

 

I'd also caution anyone that they seemed to make a very big deal about "keeping the card"....the doctor indicated that doing so may be helpful for traveling in the future....

 

Interesting, my wife is a nurse too (frontline workers and deals a lot with COVID-19 patients) but that got my nothing. It is probably because she works at various hospitals as a contractor.

 

The strange thing is that many nurses refuse to take the vaccine themselves (~30-40% in my wife's group).

[Longnose]

I am in my 30's and my state just opened up to most everyone. I got my first does of Pfizer yesterday.  I am grateful I have avoided getting COVID up till this point. My father in law died from COVID last April and I have a friend who is a little younger than me that spent 10 weeks on a ventilator and just got off last week. Granted I have hundreds of friends with minimal symptoms. But that doesn't stop me from doing my part.

 

I would love ten years from now to add COVID to the list of viruses like smallpox and polio that have been eliminated in the US because of vaccines. Don't know if it will happen, but a man can hope.

[Ice77]

The problem is that the spread of viruses is governed by the science of networks more than just the nature of the disease (ref. Nexus by Mark Buchanan) in large complex interconnected systems. If a significant chunk of population do not vaccinate in the name of some conspiracy or pseudo science or real science or freedom or whatever individually justifiable reason, they are rendering the whole network potentially vulnerable to perennial exposure to the virus...provided this group has a significant critical mass/membership. I suspect governments will eventually be forced down the road of mandatory vaccinations in the future. May not be this epidemic but eventually that is coming. 

 

 

[Spekulatius]

For me, getting vaccinated for COVID-19 is a decision with a wide margin of safety:

 

1) risk of serious side effects after vaccination:  few ppm (1/ millions)

2) chance of having serious side effects (ICU visit, death) after infection a few percent or ~10,000 ppm

 

Now we need to put in the distributions for moderate side effects after vaccination or getting infected but i think those skew in favor of the vaccine too. Than, last there is a risk of getting infected, which i think over time is going to be very high, almost approaching one.

 

Those are just the individual health benefits not the societal ones which are suppressing the infection to unvaccinated, easier travel etc.

 

Anyways that's how I look at. Due to the nature of the disease (stealthy due to asymptomatic infection and time lag) as well as the high R0 rate it is unlikely that we eradicate COVID-19 ever. I think COVID will become endemic. I also believe we will get an vaccine update probably next year to enhance the profile against the troublesome mutant variants.

[Ross812]

For me, getting vaccinated for COVID-19 is a decision with a wide margin of safety:

 

1) risk of serious side effects after vaccination:  few ppm (1/ millions)

2) chance of having serious side effects (ICU visit, death) after infection a few percent or ~10,000 ppm

 

Now we need to put in the distributions for moderate side effects after vaccination or getting infected but i think those skew in favor of the vaccine too. Than, last there is a risk of getting infected, which i think over time is going to be very high, almost approaching one.

 

Those are just the individual health benefits not the societal ones which are suppressing the infection to unvaccinated, easier travel etc.

 

Anyways that's how I look at. Due to the nature of the disease (stealthy due to asymptomatic infection and time lag) as well as the high R0 rate it is unlikely that we eradicate COVID-19 ever. I think COVID will become endemic. I also believe we will get an vaccine update probably next year to enhance the profile against the troublesome mutant variants.

 

That's similar to the way I am looking at it. Also, no one really knows the long term effects from covid. My friend is an OBGYN and had one of her patients to in her late 20's catch a very mild case of covid about 6 months before her due date. Near the due date, the woman was extremely fatigued and had low blood oxygen saturation. They did an x-ray and her lungs were wrecked with the common glass like appearance from Covid. The woman would have been termed asymptomatic with a cough she thought was just seasonal allergies that only lasted a few days. She was only tested as a requirement for office visits. They think her condition will be permanent.

 

I was able to get the shot I'm my 30s due to being an essential worker which extends to finance and lawyers in my state. I would imagine the vaccine supply is ample in my very red state with a liberal governor.

 

 

[LC]

I’ve got friends who are just getting their taste and smell back after 8 months. I’m getting the vaccine because, frankly, life sucks if I can’t enjoy food and booze.

 

Plus just look at the excess deaths over the last 12-14 months. People have no problem getting vaccines during childhood and annual flu vaccines for much less.

[Jurgis]

The system in MA here sucks, but what really sucks is Europe. My parents are 79 and 84 and no visibility on when to get the vaccine.

 

You should not generalize across Europe. In Lithuania anyone above 70 can get vaccine already and possibly even above 65. To be fair, Lithuania is still way behind US.

[TwoCitiesCapital]

Why is never not an option here?

 

Why get inoculated for polio or hepatitis?  Because the cost/benefit ratio is extraordinary.

 

Cause Polio is actually dangerous and the available vaccines are well tested and in use for a long time (making the chance of unknown long term side effects negligable). I'm innocolated for a number of other dangerous deseases (the ones that I'm likely enough to run into) with tried and true vaccines available.

 

I don't take vaccines for non-dangerous deseases, it' much wiser to let your own imune system handle it. It's not like I get the yearly flu shot (do you?) and influenza viruses are generally much more dangerous than Corona viruses. Furthermore the available deseases are not even out of stage 2 testing.And we didn't even start talking about possible unknown long term side effects.

 

In fact, I would call taking this vaccine reckless if you fall outside the primary risk groups (and unwise otherwise). I consider injecting your children with this failing at your parental duty of care.

 

The politicians are also highly reckless in my opinion. Vaccination 101 is that you don't start vaccinating during an active outbreak as that risks strengthening the virus. Aren't we in one right now? Dangerous game they are playing with all of our futures ...

 

I don't take issue with you being concerned about taking a new and unproven vaccine.

 

I do take issue with underselling the dangers of Covid though. With 550k dead in the US in just a year, and near 3 million worldwide, I would think this has proven far deadlier than polio ever was.

 

And while polio paralyzed just 0.5% of people who caught it (see attached), Covid is estimated to cause long term cardiovascular and/or respiratory issues for up to 1/3 of people who have had it regardless if the severity of symptoms (source is CDC). And we still really don't know how severe that impact will be or HOW long it lasts.

 

So we can stop pretending like Polio was this big bad thing and Covid isn't. Covid, by the numbers, is way worse

 

 

Finally @TwocitiesCapital I am most definitely NOT underselling Corona (Covid-19). First it is less lethal than many flu outbreaks that occured over recent decades (and before you say: of course individual flu outbreaks tend to be more local, but there's a lot more of them).

 

Second: really, for people outside the risk groups you consider Corona dangerous based on the statistics? Now you are just being dishonest in an attempt to convince others (or you actually haven't analyzed the data in the proper context).

 

1. More than 50% of the U.S. population is currently living with a co-morbidity. Even outside of that population and the death rate, a significant amount of those who have had Covid are currently suffering from seemingly long-term impacts of the virus regardless of the presence of co-morbidities. So what is the "risk group" if not 1/2 of the population or 1/3 of the people who get Covid? or the whole population because once it's the majority of people the segregation matters less?

 

2. Would love to see you make the case that Polio was more dangerous for the small percentage of the population it affected versus the "small" percentage of the population covid affects since you think I'm being disingenuous with numbers to demonstrate that Covid is worse than polio.