Leaving New York City

[John Hjorth]

I just want to schime in here and say as an European CoBF member, that reading this topic as of lately, is simply heartbreaking.

 

Reading this makes me appreciate my own living conditions up here in the northern part of Europe.

 

Here, we certainly have our challenges with getting our public health care system to work properly, but nothing like the described societal problems recently in this topic here.

[Castanza]

1 hour ago, Parsad said:

 

Canada is presently taking in 1M immigrants a year for a country that only has 38M people altogether.  We don't have the same problem with mass shootings or gun fatalities here even though gun ownership is pretty high.  Immigration is just an excuse for gun violence in the U.S. because of the sheer amount of guns per capita the U.S. owns.  The numbers are just stupid!  I do agree though that prosecution of those that are involved with gun-related criminal activities is also lax in the U.S.  Cheers!

 

https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/26/world/us-gun-culture-world-comparison-intl-cmd/index.html

 

I'm not talking about standard banana immigration (see prior post above). I have zero issue with that. I've been working with a group locally (Thrive) who is helping Syrian and Ukranian refugees get settled in my immediate area.  Canada does not have the cartels and gang problems that the US has. Much of which is from illegal immigration. The buffer zone Canada benefits from is Priceless. 

 

Poorly managed immigration (legal and illegal) has brought down countless empires throughout history. That is the only point I am making. It's not a but that China has been around for 5k years while always having a heavy hand on new cultural entrants in their lands. I am not saying the US should be China in any way shape or form. I think a lot of their policies are detrimental. But you can see things that they have identified and are cracking down on because they know the danger they pose to the greater structure of society. 

 

Social Media nonsense: While our High School and College age adults are busy twerking in the Taco Bell and making TikToks about being "mis-gendered" China is having more kids graduate with American Law, Engineering, and Healthcare degrees than we have in total college population every year.

 

Strong Family Values: While China is incentivizing family building we here in the west are telling young women that having a child is one of the most disadvantageous things you can do in life. Never mind the nonsense of Men can have babies. My Nephew was told by their 10th grade biology teacher that men and women can be born with the wrong brain. 

 

This is not a recipe for long-term success in the West. relating this back to "cities" .... they lead the way and are the indicators of life here in the States. Things happen there first and then everywhere else. There is a sickness of the mind destroying the Western nations. Look at people and the general lack of respect people have for each other. A man got stabbed to death at Starbucks and a guy sat there in the background sipping his coffee as he bled out in front of his child. 

 

Look at the artwork, the cinema, the architecture and the institutions....shambles

 

To channel my inner @Dave86ch the West could benefit from some Marcus Aurelius: "If it is not true, do not say it. If is should not be done, do not do it."

Edited April 12, 2023 by Castanza

[cubsfan]

 @Castanza - makes an excellent point about immigration. You can only handle so much immigration reliably - or watch a breakdown in your country. You can't take in millions of unskilled, poor, uneducated to your country without destroying public education. Witness our leader, California, always on the forefront of social change. Schools canceling Advance Placement classes, lowering standards, failing people upwards through higher education. Academic standards are almost gone. The burden on the schools to handle different languages is crippling to these institutions.

 

With California being our leading laboratory for social change and immigration nonsense - it's coming to a city or state near you. 

 

It's literally impossible to assimilate millions at this rate - without destroying what the citizens have worked for so hard - for their children. It almost doesn't make any sense to be a citizen anymore.

 

The rich & elite, of course, advocate for this nonsense, but are totally exempt. Look no further than

Martha's Vineyard.

Edited April 12, 2023 by cubsfan

[rkbabang]

34 minutes ago, John Hjorth said:

I just want to schime in here and say as an European CoBF member, that reading this topic as of lately, is simply heartbreaking.

 

Reading this makes me appreciate my own living conditions up here in the northern part of Europe.

 

Here, we certainly have our challenges with getting our public health care system to work properly, but nothing like the described societal problems recently in this topic here.

The US is a big country with many different internal cultures.  I live in New Hampshire with the least restrictive gun laws in the US and a murder rate of about 1.55/100,000.  Which is less than Canada (~2.0/100,000) and just a little worse than France (1.3/100,000).  Overall it's one of the safest places in the world to live and everyone owns guns (even the leftists and liberals), it isn't unusual to see people open carrying firearms in public places and no license at all is needed to buy, own, carry openly, or carry concealed.  I read somewhere that New Hampshire has the highest rate of machine guns per population.   Of course if you use a gun irresponsibly in New Hampshire you will go to jail, we aren't New York or California.

 

[Gregmal]

NYC was a dump until Giuliani got creative to tackle organized crime in the 80s and that was that. Bloomberg too used common sense. All this shit is solvable but it has to come from the right place. 

[Saluki]

I went to SF last month and it's amazing how much has changed in 10 years since I was there last.  At my downtown CVS, some of the high-theft items are behind plexiglass and you have to ask someone with a key to get it for you. in the downtown CVS, most of the store was behind plexiglass, including the cashiers.  Crazy.  

 

And even though I grew up in NYC and it was kind of gritty in the 80s, I can't imagine raising kids there now. The fact that the guy who killed someone in cold blood over an argument in a vape store was already on bail for shooting at cops is ridiculous.  If you stop arresting people for people for shoplifting, why would anyone pay for stuff? And if everyone is stealing, are you surprised that companies won't put stores there?  

 

And don't get me started on releasing people with no cash bail. If you arrest someone for a violent crime and let them go the same day, what makes you think they won't do it again and get released the same day again with no bail and do it again?  

 

I'll leave NYC for the tourists.  When I quit my job I may get one of those JOE beachfront houses and start a Friday happy hour for COBF refugees.  

[Spekulatius]

2 hours ago, Parsad said:

 

Canada is presently taking in 1M immigrants a year for a country that only has 38M people altogether.  We don't have the same problem with mass shootings or gun fatalities here even though gun ownership is pretty high.  Immigration is just an excuse for gun violence in the U.S. because of the sheer amount of guns per capita the U.S. owns.  The numbers are just stupid!  I do agree though that prosecution of those that are involved with gun-related criminal activities is also lax in the U.S.  Cheers!

 

https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/26/world/us-gun-culture-world-comparison-intl-cmd/index.html

Maybe there is so much violence in the US because everyone here is an immigrant. The more I think about it, the more it makes sense.

 

On @mcliu chart, I think Russia has found a way to clear out prisons that we might want to think about as well. Sending some to Ukraine to fight the Wagner gang. I just would be careful about taking them back.

[rkbabang]

Immigration is a tricky issue.  Yes, there are many problems with taking in the poor from other countries, crime being a big one, but the problem of a shrinking and aging population without enough working age people to have a healthy growing economy is an even bigger issue in my opinion.  There are costs and benefits to immigration, but the benefits are what made the US what it is.  We should think long and hard before deciding to kill the goose that's been laying the golden eggs for well over a century.

 

[John Hjorth]

1 hour ago, rkbabang said:

The US is a big country with many different internal cultures.  I live in New Hampshire with the least restrictive gun laws in the US and a murder rate of about 1.55/100,000.  Which is less than Canada (~2.0/100,000) and just a little worse than France (1.3/100,000).  Overall it's one of the safest places in the world to live and everyone owns guns (even the leftists and liberals), it isn't unusual to see people open carrying firearms in public places and no license at all is needed to buy, own, carry openly, or carry concealed.  I read somewhere that New Hampshire has the highest rate of machine guns per population.   Of course if you use a gun irresponsibly in New Hampshire you will go to jail, we aren't New York or California.

 

 

Thanks for the color, @rkbabang.

Edited April 12, 2023 by John Hjorth

[Castanza]

11 minutes ago, rkbabang said:

Immigration is a tricky issue.  Yes, there are many problems with taking in the poor from other countries, crime being a big one, but the problem of a shrinking and aging population without enough working age people to have a healthy growing economy is an even bigger issue in my opinion.  There are costs and benefits to immigration, but the benefits are what made the US what it is.  We should think long and hard before deciding to kill the goose that's been laying the golden eggs for well over a century.

 

I would gladly ship a lot of these useless, entitled and lazy conservatives and liberals somewhere else in exchange for individuals who want to work and make a life for themselves. The difference between now and the early 1900's is we've moved from a largely industrial/agricultural society to a consumer/intellectual one. There simply are not the type of jobs for every uneducated person coming here to have a good life. In the end the lowest jobs just give you a floundering life with ever increasing costs. the cards are stacked against you in the "Land of Freedom" which leads to crime, gangs, drugs, Violence.

 

Yes there is a big need in the trades, but much of this could be solved from within if out shit education system, didn't tell the last two generations that an Accounting/Business degree is far more valuable than learning to be a dumb plumber or electrician. 

 

I think the US specifically is in a place where it needs to be picky with immigration. Recruit the best and bring them here. I'm sorry but you simply can't bring large amounts of people from third world countries here and expect them to fit in. At least not without some type of program etc. As I said above, I work with some and let me tell you they STRUGGLE hard at first. It takes a shit ton of effort to help them understand simple societal norms. But being they are human beings, they are able to learn and generally adapt. But it can take years. 

 

When I was in HS, I had a summer gig driving a Jeep Wrangler around to Shale pads and testing water in their retention ponds. There was a story I was told by a few gas workers about some well guys from Bolivia who hit a deer in a company truck, then took it to their hotel bathroom and gutted it in the bathtub. Grocery store across the street and a TGI Fridays below. 

Edited April 12, 2023 by Castanza

[cubsfan]

2 minutes ago, rkbabang said:

Immigration is a tricky issue.  Yes, there are many problems with taking in the poor from other countries, crime being a big one, but the problem of a shrinking and aging population without enough working age people to have a healthy growing economy is an even bigger issue in my opinion.  There are costs and benefits to immigration, but the benefits are what made the US what it is.  We should think long and hard before deciding to kill the goose that's been laying the golden eggs for well over a century.

 

It's not that immigration is an issue - it's the rate of immigration and open borders that doesn't work. We are just dumping these masses of people into communities with no process of assimilation. You do want them to keep their culture, but before this, you made sure they respected your laws, culture, language and way of life. You try and teach them what it is to be American. It's good for everyone.

 

Immigration has definitely built America - but it was controlled. This is totally out of control.

I have a niece that is a doctor in Latin America - it takes her 18 months to get an immigration interview in order to come into this country to participate in a 6 week pharmacological program at Columbia. She might even like to practice here.  Finally I told her - she ought to just walk to the Mexican border and walk across. Biden will give her a plane ticket to NYC.  Those are the kind of people that will help advance this country. 

[Saluki]

There is also the question of what the mix of immigrants is with regard to skills and education. In the UK, they have historically allowed skilled migrants (Indian doctors) to emigrate easilly, but made it harder for low skilled labor. So if you have a lot of skilled immigrants, it pushes down wages for the upper class, like doctors, and makes professions like plumbers more well off than in the US. 

 

In the US we have a lot of unskilled immigrants from Mexico. That makes labor cheap for things like building houses and hurts the wages of construction workers but helps the wages of the constrained supply of highly skilled labor like doctors and lawyers. 

[Sweet]

53 minutes ago, Saluki said:

There is also the question of what the mix of immigrants is with regard to skills and education. In the UK, they have historically allowed skilled migrants (Indian doctors) to emigrate easilly, but made it harder for low skilled labor. So if you have a lot of skilled immigrants, it pushes down wages for the upper class, like doctors, and makes professions like plumbers more well off than in the US. 

 

In the US we have a lot of unskilled immigrants from Mexico. That makes labor cheap for things like building houses and hurts the wages of construction workers but helps the wages of the constrained supply of highly skilled labor like doctors and lawyers. 

 

Maybe the UK used to permit high skill immigration, and restrict low skill immigration, but definitely not recently.

Edited April 12, 2023 by Sweet

[Parsad]

3 hours ago, Castanza said:

Ban alcohol 

 

Cheers!

 

Pppphhhtt!  Legal age to access alcohol in the U.S. is 21...whereas the legal age to possess an assault rifle is 18.  Talk about f**ked up!  Cheers!

[rkbabang]

^^Immigration is always a hot button for many.  The fact is that our demographics suck in the US (although not as bad as some other countries), we aren't even having enough kids to replace ourselves.  Immigration is the ONLY thing standing in between us and a shrinking population.   Yes, it should be far easier to bring in professionals like Doctors and Engineers, and yes it should be far easier to come in if your poor as well.  People look down on the immigrants who break the law to come here.  I don't.  We grew up here and literally didn't lift a finger to get here, while these people risked their lives and freedom to get here.  That's the kind of can-do grit I respect.   If the laws are stupid, ignore them.  

 

As for assimilation, that has always been a problem.  People in the 1800s complained that the Irish wouldn't work, they were violent criminals, and even questioned if they should be considered human.  They were considered to be nothing but drunkards and criminals.  Every wave of immigration from the Irish, to the German, to the Jewish immigrants in the early 20th century created hatred of the main group immigrating in at the time.  But immigrants have lots of kids and those kids grow up as Americans.  I'm the son of an immigrant myself and I don't speak a word of Portuguese (my father's 1st language) .   While he never learned how to read or write in any language, my brother and I are both college graduates and have professional careers.  I only have one brother, but some of my father's sisters have as many as 8 kids.   Immigrants  have lots of kids and while they themselves may not assimilate completely their children do.

 

[Castanza]

2 minutes ago, Parsad said:

 

Pppphhhtt!  Legal age to access alcohol in the U.S. is 21...whereas the legal age to possess an assault rifle is 18.  Talk about f**ked up!  Cheers!

 

Yeah and how many kids die from drinking and driving every year regardless of the price restriction on purchase. It's the same argument you make that "because guns are available it creates problems." Well so does alcohol....you are picking and choosing what you want to live with. 

 

18 = Adult in case you forgot. Congress can send an 18 year old to war to die for their country. 

[Parsad]

2 hours ago, Castanza said:

 

Social Media nonsense: While our High School and College age adults are busy twerking in the Taco Bell and making TikToks about being "mis-gendered" China is having more kids graduate with American Law, Engineering, and Healthcare degrees than we have in total college population every year.

 

Strong Family Values: While China is incentivizing family building we here in the west are telling young women that having a child is one of the most disadvantageous things you can do in life. Never mind the nonsense of Men can have babies. My Nephew was told by their 10th grade biology teacher that men and women can be born with the wrong brain. 

 

This is not a recipe for long-term success in the West. relating this back to "cities" .... they lead the way and are the indicators of life here in the States. Things happen there first and then everywhere else. There is a sickness of the mind destroying the Western nations. Look at people and the general lack of respect people have for each other. A man got stabbed to death at Starbucks and a guy sat there in the background sipping his coffee as he bled out in front of his child. 

 

Look at the artwork, the cinema, the architecture and the institutions....shambles

 

To channel my inner @Dave86ch the West could benefit from some Marcus Aurelius: "If it is not true, do not say it. If is should not be done, do not do it."

 

I think these are the complaints that every generation has..."things were better in the past."  Some things maybe...generally, a lot of things weren't!  Cheers!

[Parsad]

7 minutes ago, Castanza said:

 

Yeah and how many kids die from drinking and driving every year regardless of the price restriction on purchase. It's the same argument you make that "because guns are available it creates problems." Well so does alcohol....you are picking and choosing what you want to live with. 

 

18 = Adult in case you forgot. Congress can send an 18 year old to war to die for their country. 

 

I'd be happy to get rid of alcohol, gambling, smoking and all non-prescription drugs other than weed.  You can also count guns in that...all guns!  I'm just saying the rules are completely stupid in the U.S. between alcohol possession and gun possession.  Cheers!

[Castanza]

52 minutes ago, Parsad said:

 

I think these are the complaints that every generation has..."things were better in the past."  Some things maybe...generally, a lot of things weren't!  Cheers!

Idk man this time feels different. Leaders of the free world embrace this shit below. The internet and technology has exacerbated the worst of humanity. A society that can’t even protect its kids is a failed one imo. Drugs are rampant all over as well. Stores are big. Looted in masses. None of this has happened before. 
 

 

Kensington Ave

Edited April 12, 2023 by Castanza

[Gregmal]

See the problem is not the rules or even the guns or cocaine. It’s when we have rules that aren’t enforced or there are double standards. The guy in the above video should have been locked away. He wasn’t. And Alan Weaselberg or whoever the Trump CFO is at Rikers for an apartment and school tuition LOL?
 

If you are making guns and drugs legal…do it. What you have now though is people who don’t follow the laws endangering people who do. A law abiding citizen goes into an urban area behaving as if guns and drugs are illegal and is a sitting duck target for people who just don’t care or know they’ll be home inside 24 hours. Same with the tax code. It’s systemic to a degree, but also massively regional. How many people in Nevada or Florida are being bothered by the state over their tax returns?

[Castanza]

50 minutes ago, Gregmal said:

See the problem is not the rules or even the guns or cocaine. It’s when we have rules that aren’t enforced or there are double standards. The guy in the above video should have been locked away. He wasn’t. And Alan Weaselberg or whoever the Trump CFO is at Rikers for an apartment and school tuition LOL?
 

If you are making guns and drugs legal…do it. What you have now though is people who don’t follow the laws endangering people who do. A law abiding citizen goes into an urban area behaving as if guns and drugs are illegal and is a sitting duck target for people who just don’t care or know they’ll be home inside 24 hours. Same with the tax code. It’s systemic to a degree, but also massively regional. How many people in Nevada or Florida are being bothered by the state over their tax returns?

Yup just like the UK. Ban guns ok, then end up with increased stabbing and burglars with a license to rob knowing they have nothing to worry about.  UK solution: metal detectors on sidewalks. 
 

 

 

 

[Parsad]

5 hours ago, rkbabang said:

The US is a big country with many different internal cultures.  I live in New Hampshire with the least restrictive gun laws in the US and a murder rate of about 1.55/100,000.  Which is less than Canada (~2.0/100,000) and just a little worse than France (1.3/100,000).  Overall it's one of the safest places in the world to live and everyone owns guns (even the leftists and liberals), it isn't unusual to see people open carrying firearms in public places and no license at all is needed to buy, own, carry openly, or carry concealed.  I read somewhere that New Hampshire has the highest rate of machine guns per population.   Of course if you use a gun irresponsibly in New Hampshire you will go to jail, we aren't New York or California.

 

 

Actually, homicide rates by gun violence in Canada is about 0.6...2.0 includes suicides as well.

 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/canada-gun-facts-crime-accidental-shootings-suicides-1.4803378

 

In New Hampshire, homicide rates by gun violence is about 1.1 excluding suicides.

 

https://everystat.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/Gun-Violence-in-New-Hampshire-1.pdf

 

Anyway you slice it, looser gun regulations means more deaths by gun homicide.  Cheers!

 

 

[Parsad]

2 hours ago, Castanza said:

Idk man this time feels different. Leaders of the free world embrace this shit below. The internet and technology has exacerbated the worst of humanity. A society that can’t even protect its kids is a failed one imo. Drugs are rampant all over as well. Stores are big. Looted in masses. None of this has happened before. 
 

 

I can't speak to specific shows, but drag/homosexuality has been around as long as human beings.  Hijras have around in India for 2000 years plus.  I'm sure this has existed in most cultures for millennia.  

 

Are there those that push an agenda that might not be prudent for society...for sure!  That is done by both sides.  And while certain things may seem worse, for the most part, the world is becoming a better place to live for all...including those that are disenfranchised, suffering from centuries of economic disparity and lack of poor healthcare.  The world just got through a global pandemic relatively intact!  Not sure that would have been as successful 100 years ago.

 

What intrigues me is why drag or transgenderism is such a hot topic among conservatives.  They account for less than half of 1% of the population, yet conservatives feel that their spouse, kids and pets will all be converted in some way!  If the Mormons and Jehovah's Witness haven't had such success, why would transgenders?

 

Thirty years ago, I would have been like most young people and been uncomfortable around homosexuality, drag queens or transgendered people.  A real twat!  I'm glad that thirty years later that discomfort and unintentional bigotry is gone.  Mainly due to one of my brother's close friends coming out as gay after high school, and I watched my brother go to gay bars to support his friend as a wing man, who for years went to straight bars to support my brother as his wing man...how enlightened my brother is!  Another family friend had struggled for years with his gender and it showed up in mental issues because of the ambiguity...a destroyed and sad life because it was not diagnosed until his 40's.

 

I'm glad I'm no longer an ignorant twat!  All I can say is Castanza...don't be an ignorant twat!  History will not be on your side. 

 

Cheers!  

[Blugolds11]

When my grandfather was a kid they brough their guns to school, nd placed them in the back of the room, it just meant they were going squirrel hunting after class. 

 

When i was a kid we had a "cowboy" day at the local fairgrounds as a class trip. I was in kindergarten. (This was midwest also, not Texas etc) Every kid had a straw cowboy hat and wore a bandana with their "brand" that they designed on it. I remember my elementary school principle was also there dressed as a cowboy with a fake Sherriff badge. Over his arm, with the action broke open was an unloaded double barrel shotgun as part of his costume. It was real and I remember asking him about it. That would never fly today. 

 

Bombs/explosives = illegal and strict rules for possession and we still have bombings, although they are (thankfully) rare. 

 

Yes when comparing the drinking age at 21 to firearms at 18 it makes it seem out of whack. But the other side of that argument is to invert, its possible that the drinking age of 21 isnt doing much either and could still be 18. Indeed there are several countries in the world with a drinking age of 18, and some that it is not even enforced and they dont seem to have the issues that we do in the US. 

 

I would say that with regard to alcohol and firearms there seems to be a cultural element there out of whack. What has changed since my grandpa was in elementary school, or since I was? Without getting the root of the problem and addressing mental health issues, drug abuse/treatment etc I dont think you can litigate your way out of the problem. 

 

But like I said, if raising the age for firearms to 21 would help I would fully support it. Or other more stringent requirements. I think its more of a cultural problem, mental health, perhaps social media contributes, sensationalism, before when kids were teased or struggling maybe they acted out in a different manner maybe those with mental health issues committed other egregious acts. Nowadays its like they default to thinking about going on shooting spree. I dont know what has changed over the years to cause that. To make them immediately think to find/acquire a gun and go shoot up innocents someplace. I just cant fathom it. 

[Blugolds11]

20 minutes ago, Parsad said:

 

I can't speak to specific shows, but drag/homosexuality has been around as long as human beings.  Hijras have around in India for 2000 years plus.  I'm sure this has existed in most cultures for millennia.  

 

Are there those that push an agenda that might not be prudent for society...for sure!  That is done by both sides.  And while certain things may seem worse, for the most part, the world is becoming a better place to live for all...including those that are disenfranchised, suffering from centuries of economic disparity and lack of poor healthcare.  The world just got through a global pandemic relatively intact!  Not sure that would have been as successful 100 years ago.

 

What intrigues me is why drag or transgenderism is such a hot topic among conservatives.  They account for less than half of 1% of the population, yet conservatives feel that their spouse, kids and pets will all be converted in some way!  If the Mormons and Jehovah's Witness haven't had such success, why would transgenders?

 

Thirty years ago, I would have been like most young people and been uncomfortable around homosexuality, drag queens or transgendered people.  A real twat!  I'm glad that thirty years later that discomfort and unintentional bigotry is gone.  Mainly due to one of my brother's close friends coming out as gay after high school, and I watched my brother go to gay bars to support his friend as a wing man, who for years went to straight bars to support my brother as his wing man...how enlightened my brother is!  Another family friend had struggled for years with his gender and it showed up in mental issues because of the ambiguity...a destroyed and sad life because it was not diagnosed until his 40's.

 

I'm glad I'm no longer an ignorant twat!  All I can say is Castanza...don't be an ignorant twat!  History will not be on your side. 

 

Cheers!  

 

I agree with this, has always been around and arguably MORE rampant. Before the proper days of Pride and Prejudice, you had the Greeks and the Romans and anyone who has looked into history knows that anything went for them, Spartans were the same with their boy toys. We dont watch human gladiators fighting to the death anymore, so I guess that is progression! Im not saying things cant get to extremes, and perhaps some has, but it has always been around, social media and media today in general just makes you more aware of it, you arent listening to a radio anymore or getting everything from a newspaper, and that radio and newspaper isnt giving you straight facts, its a scripted news show that caters to like minded folks based on sensationalism and painting the worse possible picture of the "other side". 

 

"If the Mormons and Jehovah's Witness haven't had such success, why would transgenders?" This cracked me up, imagine transgenders going door-to-door!! Oh the uproar!