orthopa Posted March 27, 2020 Share Posted March 27, 2020 https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/27/health/a-heart-attack-no-it-was-the-coronavirus.html "An electrocardiogram revealed an ominous heart rhythm. The patient had high blood levels of a protein called troponin, a sign of damaged heart muscle. Doctors rushed to open the patient’s blocked arteries — but found that no arteries were blocked." "A report on heart problems among coronavirus patients in Wuhan, China, was published in JAMA Cardiology on Friday. The study, led by Dr. Zhibing Lu at Zhongnan Hospital of Wuhan University, found that 20 percent of patients hospitalized with Covid-19, the illness caused by the coronavirus, had some evidence of heart damage." When patients "code" in the hospital, it is usually due to an abnormal heart rhythm that often leads to mortality. The underlying cause does not have to be cardiac (though if you have preexisting cardiac disease you are at increased risk). For example--a virus that causes ARDS can cause severe hypoxia. Severe hypoxia can cause pulmonary hypertension (increased load for the right side of the heart to pump against) and cause cardiac ischemia/infarction, cardiac arrest, V-fib, etc. Certain viral infections are also known direct cardiomyopathy and as your article notes, that could be a factor with this but obviously lots of uncertainty at this point. Or another example: taking Trump's favorite drug Hydroxychloroquine can prolong what's called the QT interval and lead to Torsades de Pointes which is often fatal. In that case, the drug should be blamed as the culprit, not the heart. Yep definitely a psychiatrist. Didn't do to well on match day did you? So when you have no arguments left, attack individuals. Got it. No just analyzed the quality of the "data" in your post. I'm data driven yo! And your right, you haven't attacked my intellectual capacity, my analytical skills, questioned my profession, etc. What the fuck is wrong me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cobafdek Posted March 27, 2020 Share Posted March 27, 2020 We're going to get serological results quicker than I thought. Recent past CFR numbers will be coming down. A tweet from yesterday: was updated today: Definitely going to be watching this. Do you know by chance is this an independent company? What is driving this goverment? His profile is lackluster. I don't know who he is or what company is testing. I gather that Friedberg is an angel investor in venture capital. There must be dozens of start-ups, not just in the USA, that are racing with the serological testing. The Mount Sinai lab that published their results last week (https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.17.20037713v1) has a website where competing labs can order the ingredients and do the testing themselves https://labs.icahn.mssm.edu/krammerlab/covid-19/ Things are moving very fast. Good news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalal.Holdings Posted March 27, 2020 Share Posted March 27, 2020 https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/27/health/a-heart-attack-no-it-was-the-coronavirus.html "An electrocardiogram revealed an ominous heart rhythm. The patient had high blood levels of a protein called troponin, a sign of damaged heart muscle. Doctors rushed to open the patient’s blocked arteries — but found that no arteries were blocked." "A report on heart problems among coronavirus patients in Wuhan, China, was published in JAMA Cardiology on Friday. The study, led by Dr. Zhibing Lu at Zhongnan Hospital of Wuhan University, found that 20 percent of patients hospitalized with Covid-19, the illness caused by the coronavirus, had some evidence of heart damage." When patients "code" in the hospital, it is usually due to an abnormal heart rhythm that often leads to mortality. The underlying cause does not have to be cardiac (though if you have preexisting cardiac disease you are at increased risk). For example--a virus that causes ARDS can cause severe hypoxia. Severe hypoxia can cause pulmonary hypertension (increased load for the right side of the heart to pump against) and cause cardiac ischemia/infarction, cardiac arrest, V-fib, etc. Certain viral infections are also known direct cardiomyopathy and as your article notes, that could be a factor with this but obviously lots of uncertainty at this point. Or another example: taking Trump's favorite drug Hydroxychloroquine can prolong what's called the QT interval and lead to Torsades de Pointes which is often fatal. In that case, the drug should be blamed as the culprit, not the heart. Yep definitely a psychiatrist. Didn't do to well on match day did you? So when you have no arguments left, attack individuals. Got it. No just analyzed the quality of the "data" in your post. I'm data driven yo! And your right, you haven't attacked my intellectual capacity, my analytical skills, questioned my profession, etc. What the fuck is wrong me. Touché. My frustration for the lack of urgency in U.S. response got the best of me and I am probably guilty of all of those things. My apologies. I need a breather off this site, after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liberty Posted March 27, 2020 Share Posted March 27, 2020 https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/27/coronavirus-trump-told-pence-not-to-call-washington-michigan-governors.html President Donald Trump said Friday that he instructed Vice President Mike Pence not to reach out to governors who aren’t “appreciative” of his administration’s efforts to slow the spread of the coronavirus in their states. The president mentioned Washington Gov. Jay Inslee and Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer, both Democrats who have been critical of the White House’s actions to combat the deadly pandemic. Trump said that Pence “calls all the governors. And I tell him, I’m a different type of person, and I say, ’Mike, don’t call the governor of Washington. you’re wasting your time with him.” So that's how Zalensky felt... How is this not criminal? Playing games with the lives of US citizens, exchanging praise and lack of criticism for medical help? Blackmail and bribery... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drzola Posted March 27, 2020 Share Posted March 27, 2020 Maybe I should borrow a petri dish from VIDO SK of corvo19 and redeplloy it on to Trumps wife's orifices and whils the supposedly Manchild Broods with little mama he may just perish ims a week or sol? Just saying cuz you Americans our Fuked you know dominoes fell dudes so step up maybe and grow a pair maybe Enough is Enough when little Canada can put him in his place and not his own residents geesh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minten Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 https://abbott.mediaroom.com/2020-03-27-Abbott-Launches-Molecular-Point-of-Care-Test-to-Detect-Novel-Coronavirus-in-as-Little-as-Five-Minutes " delivering positive results in as little as five minutes and negative results in 13 minutes. " " Abbott expects to produce about 5 million tests per month. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alwaysdrawing Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 And your right, you haven't attacked my intellectual capacity, my analytical skills, questioned my profession, etc. What the fuck is wrong me. I think your analytical skills are not of the highest order. Can't speak to your intellectual capacity, however you have continuously minimized the threat of COVID and used your credentials as a cudgel to push your agenda. The data clearly shows you were wrong about a large number of undiagnosed cases of coronavirus in Jan/Feb, which you repeatedly claimed. Meanwhile, Dalal has been posting good info for weeks, and I don't care what his profession is. Credentialism is unnecessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Hjorth Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 Geez, & oh come on, gents, There is no need to create peer-to-peer foes individually within the CoBF community because of the situation. The whole situation is severely stressful already without that. Please, & at least, try to look ahead. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Libs Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 And your right, you haven't attacked my intellectual capacity, my analytical skills, questioned my profession, etc. What the fuck is wrong me. I think your analytical skills are not of the highest order. Can't speak to your intellectual capacity, however you have continuously minimized the threat of COVID and used your credentials as a cudgel to push your agenda. The data clearly shows you were wrong about a large number of undiagnosed cases of coronavirus in Jan/Feb, which you repeatedly claimed. Meanwhile, Dalal has been posting good info for weeks, and I don't care what his profession is. Credentialism is unnecessary. Jeez. I just have to weigh in here. Orthopa simply weighed in with some on-the-ground experience that ran counter to the prevailing wisdom. For which he was treated quite roughly. I appreciated his input, right or wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcliu Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 And your right, you haven't attacked my intellectual capacity, my analytical skills, questioned my profession, etc. What the fuck is wrong me. I think your analytical skills are not of the highest order. Can't speak to your intellectual capacity, however you have continuously minimized the threat of COVID and used your credentials as a cudgel to push your agenda. The data clearly shows you were wrong about a large number of undiagnosed cases of coronavirus in Jan/Feb, which you repeatedly claimed. Meanwhile, Dalal has been posting good info for weeks, and I don't care what his profession is. Credentialism is unnecessary. Jeez. I just have to weigh in here. Orthopa simply weighed in with some on-the-ground experience that ran counter to the prevailing wisdom. For which he was treated quite roughly. I appreciated his input, right or wrong. +1 Agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LC Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 Geez, & oh come on, gents, There is no need to create peer-to-peer foes individually within the CoBF community because of the situation. The whole situation is severely stressful already without that. Please, & at least, try to look ahead. Thank you. This is the reason that this thread, and this virus, is turning into a political talking point. It's the reason we see such clusterfuckery all abouts the US in terms of response. It's human nature, even the folks here on COBF are just as susceptible as Trump. Nobody on this forum is going to be absolutely right or wrong in terms of estimating the magnitude of this situation. And certainly nobody in the real-world who are making policy decisions will be able to do so either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocSnowball Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 Flu season looks like a blip on the NYC Influenza Like Illness data tracker. So much for orthopa's theory--deaths and illness rates now clearly indicate no widespread incidence back in Jan/Feb. https://weinbergerlab.shinyapps.io/NYC_syndromic/ OMG! Never seen anything like this graph in 15 years of tracking these seasonal flu curves!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardGibbons Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 Jeez. I just have to weigh in here. Orthopa simply weighed in with some on-the-ground experience that ran counter to the prevailing wisdom. For which he was treated quite roughly. I appreciated his input, right or wrong. That's not why he was treated roughly. He was treated roughly for ignoring evidence and continuing to push a narrative that was completely refuted by the data. On message boards, encouraging people to draw obviously incorrect conclusions almost always leads to people being attacked, and even more so during stressful times when incorrect conclusions can cause people to die or lose money. That said, I agree we should try to be nicer. I try, and often fail. :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drzola Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 DocSnowBall You just nailed it it's 50/50 time folks so be kind to all mankind maybe eh! Go Canada Go 1972 was so great ha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spekulatius Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 The Model (for which I can’t vouch for) expects max medical capacity use mid April. This assumes distancing measures in place. https://covid19.healthdata.org/projections Of course peak usage differs from state to state. 500 peak death/day for NY alone sounds pretty scary. Overall death in the US ~80k. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arcube Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 I have nothing but respect and admiration for this gentleman. Given his work conditions and boss, he still tries his best to have utmost integrity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castanza Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 The Model (for which I can’t vouch for) expects max medical capacity use mid April. This assumes distancing measures in place. https://covid19.healthdata.org/projections Of course peak usage differs from state to state. 500 peak death/day for NY alone sounds pretty scary. overal death in the US ~80k. Is the 80k projection based including the shortage of beds and ventilators? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cobafdek Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 I have nothing but respect and admiration for this gentleman. Given his work conditions and boss, he still tries his best to have utmost integrity. Consider this from January 26, 5 days before the President ordered the ban on travel from China: https://thehill.com/homenews/sunday-talk-shows/479939-government-health-agency-official-corona-virus-isnt-something-the?amp Feel any different? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EliG Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 38yo healthy guy details his experience with Covid-19. He didn't get hospitalized. It probably means that his case counts as mild. For a "mild" case, it sounds downright scary. Share with friends & family who still think "it's just like a flu". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castanza Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 I have nothing but respect and admiration for this gentleman. Given his work conditions and boss, he still tries his best to have utmost integrity. Consider this from January 26, 5 days before the President ordered the ban on travel from China: https://thehill.com/homenews/sunday-talk-shows/479939-government-health-agency-official-corona-virus-isnt-something-the?amp Feel any different? Just a few days before your article WHO was still repeating what China had “confirmed” that the virus was not transferred person to person. There is a 15-20 day window late Jan to early Feb where info was very unclear and very fast changing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spekulatius Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 The Model (for which I can’t vouch for) expects max medical capacity use mid April. This assumes distancing measures in place. https://covid19.healthdata.org/projections Of course peak usage differs from state to state. 500 peak death/day for NY alone sounds pretty scary. overal death in the US ~80k. Is the 80k projection based including the shortage of beds and ventilators? Yes, otherwise those input parameters wouldn’t matter. With these models, the absolute numbers are probably less impotent than how the output reacts to changing input parameters. not something they can be done using the website, one would need to play with their model (which is downloadable, but that’s way more than I am willing or capable of doing). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meiroy Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 If hundreds of millions or billions of people are infected with this, what is the chance it mutates and we start the whole thing all over again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minten Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 Meanwhile, Dalal has been posting good info for weeks, and I don't care what his profession is. Credentialism is unnecessary. Come on, this is turning things upside down. Credentialism is unnecessary unless you first bring it up yourself; nobody here knows my profession as I've never told you what it is. When someone first comes out saying he's an MD while making medical statements therefore sounding like someone who knows what he's saying, then later deletes that comment because perhaps he's really not, then of course that's on him. Not on the person who noticed and comments on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minten Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 If hundreds of millions or billions of people are infected with this, what is the chance it mutates and we start the whole thing all over again? it's my understanding (but perhaps an MD can correct me) the flu is quite unique in being able to mutate so fast and is therefore so succesful, while corona viruses, like most viruses, aren't. This isn't the first corona virus we have dealt with. But of course, this one might be different, who knows. There has been plenty of talk there are already two different strains of this virus, one contagious and mild, one not so contagious and harsh. But it's not really clear to me if that's fact or speculation at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwericb Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 Here is a fine example of how a dysfunctional government is fighting Covid-19... WASHINGTON – President Donald Trump said Friday he has asked Vice President Mike Pence not to call governors he says have not been "appreciative" enough of his efforts on coronavirus – a group of critics that included a governor he referred to only by gender, "Don't call the woman in Michigan," Trump said at a press conference while discussing Pence's work as head of the White House Coronavirus Task Force. Yup, that is how you pull together to fight a pandemic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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