How much does it take to be ‘rich’ now?

[Paarslaars]

4 minutes ago, Dinar said:

No, it means that while our income declined, quality of life improved because she had 40 more hours per week  to devote to our family.   Given that I came as a penniless immigrant with my parents to the US from the former USSR, your suggestion is interesting...   My parents and I lived on less than USD 20K per year in NYC in the early 1990s.  I would suggest that before giving this advice to me or anyone else, you take your family (including kids) to NYC/Tokyo/London and try to live on USD 40K a year today.   I have lived a very frugal life - no air-conditioning for me during NYC summers, worked as a garbage man to pay for college.  I started to work at 16.    

 

Then why did you disagree with james his post? Seems like you are agreeing then...

[CorpRaider]

19 hours ago, thepupil said:

yea the decision is deeply personal and extends well beyond the math. in my circle, almost all the wives work (90%+) and if I had to wager the math probably only makes sense for 25-30% of them if considering it on a near term year to year basis. The math on a long term basis gets more complex. it's not really about the money today so much as it is about career momentum/fulfillment/not wanting to stay home/etc. 

I've been toying a little with idea of going to medical school in my 40s (probably would be late by the time I got around to it) for a second career.  Maybe be a pediatrician.  I went to school with a guy who was a retired plastic surgeon, had to be at least in his 50s.  I could do a reverse that guy and get maybe 30 or 40 years of a career if I like it (would of course try to maintain personal balance sheet in a position where I could have some hand in dictating work terms; unlike many docs).

Edited June 7, 2023 by CorpRaider

[Dinar]

22 minutes ago, Paarslaars said:

 

Then why did you disagree with james his post? Seems like you are agreeing then...

I think that having more money helps to solve problems and reduce stress in life.   For each person, the optimum point is different.  Of course if you love what you do - academics, or you are workaholic (many people in finance) then that is different calculation.  

[rohitc99]

1 hour ago, james22 said:

 

Can't buy relationships.

 

What makes for a happy life, a fulfilling life? A good life? According to the directors of the Harvard Study of Adult Development, the longest scientific study of happiness ever conducted, the surprising answer is: relationships.

 

The stronger our relationships, the more likely we are to live happy, satisfying, and overall healthier lives. In fact, the Harvard Study of Adult Development reveals that the strength of our connections with others can predict the health of both our bodies and our brains as we go through life.

 

https://www.amazon.com/Good-Life-Lessons-Scientific-Happiness/dp/198216669X/

ofcourse i am only joking. None us are machines trying to maximize our networth

 

that said, somehow the stats show that as the cost of raising children rises, birth rates are falling. Me and my wife wanted kids and did not think of the economics behind it. but at the society level, this is changing

[Gregmal]

34 minutes ago, CorpRaider said:

I've been toying a little with idea of going to medical school in my 40s (probably would be late by the time I got around to it) for a second career.  Maybe be a pediatrician.  I went to school with a guy who was a retired plastic surgeon, had to be at least in his 50s.  I could do a reverse that guy and get maybe 30 or 40 years of a career if I like it (would of course try to maintain personal balance sheet in a position where I could have some hand in dictating work terms; unlike many docs).

I could never do it myself but the idea you bring up is an excellent one. Part of the reason I ended up where I did was because I just didnt want to deal with going to school more in order to become a lawyer LOL. But if you are kosher with the tedious nature of all that, spending your 40s doing med school is a great way to transition into a high earning, mobile, largely work at your own pace career. 

[CorpRaider]

4 hours ago, Gregmal said:

I could never do it myself but the idea you bring up is an excellent one. Part of the reason I ended up where I did was because I just didnt want to deal with going to school more in order to become a lawyer LOL. But if you are kosher with the tedious nature of all that, spending your 40s doing med school is a great way to transition into a high earning, mobile, largely work at your own pace career. 

Yeah I'm not sure either.  Would need some additional science.  I'm just sort of in the "messing with my wife by mentioning it" stage.  You probably didn't miss much other than being a detail monkey.  I would rather do your thing but my (4%) CAGR ain't cutting it.

Edited June 7, 2023 by CorpRaider

[james22]

1 hour ago, Dinar said:

I think that having more money helps to solve problems and reduce stress in life.

 

Sure, but how many would sell their relationships?

 

Single and wealthy, I've no problems that can't be solved with money and no stress because of it.

 

But I've no doubt I'd be happier if I were happily married and with significantly less money.

 

Sounds like you wouldn't trade your new relationship with your wife for whatever she might earn?

 

 

[Ross812]

I guess the topic should have been - define "rich" and how much money does it take for your definition?

 

To me, rich means not having to rely on selling my time to fund my life style. A very comfortable lifestyle for me costs around 100k/year excluding real estate. This lifestyle includes 3-4 international vacations each year flying economy and staying in budget friendly hotels, maintaining two homes (LCOL area), a few $25-$30 bottles of wine each week, and having a $150 night out every 2-3 weeks. It is a pretty extravagant lifestyle but doesn't include new cars, expensive collections (art, time pieces, etc.), $10k vacations, children, and hired help. At 3.5% (margin of safety to make me happy) this is about $3M in liquid savings.

 

If you define rich as spending whatever you want (within reason) without thought, I stand by my $30M assessment.     

[Dinar]

1 hour ago, james22 said:

 

Sure, but how many would sell their relationships?

 

Single and wealthy, I've no problems that can't be solved with money and no stress because of it.

 

But I've no doubt I'd be happier if I were happily married and with significantly less money.

 

Sounds like you wouldn't trade your new relationship with your wife for whatever she might earn?

 

 

Correct.  The only reason that she worked, and unfortunately will have to go back at some point is health insurance.  

[james22]

2 hours ago, Dinar said:

Correct.  The only reason that she worked, and unfortunately will have to go back at some point is health insurance.  

 

Better than those who learn, once retired and spending more time together, they don't like each other that much.

[Gamecock-YT]

Being able to do what you want, when you want, how you want. And the price of that depends on where you are choosing to do it at. First world that figure is a lot higher than going to the second or third world. Also depends if you want lifestyle signaling/keeping up with the Joneses. To each their own. 

Edited June 8, 2023 by Gamecock-YT

[jfan]

On 6/7/2023 at 9:59 AM, CorpRaider said:

I've been toying a little with idea of going to medical school in my 40s (probably would be late by the time I got around to it) for a second career.  Maybe be a pediatrician.  I went to school with a guy who was a retired plastic surgeon, had to be at least in his 50s.  I could do a reverse that guy and get maybe 30 or 40 years of a career if I like it (would of course try to maintain personal balance sheet in a position where I could have some hand in dictating work terms; unlike many docs).

I have a friend who was a successful CEO of a public traded company that got bought out. His dream was always to become a doctor. He got into medical school in his 40s and trained for 8 years to become a specialist. He is now in his 60s. Still practicing and working harder than most people younger than himself. I think he loves the work, but I know he doesn't love the healthcare system and all its friction points. Being a doctor, you have a different set of task masters you have to answer to and the constant grind of interpersonal conflict is, imo, the source of their burnout. But if it is a passion of yours, do it earlier, the training demands good health and fair degree of energy. 

 

[ICUMD]

11 hours ago, jfan said:

I have a friend who was a successful CEO of a public traded company that got bought out. His dream was always to become a doctor. He got into medical school in his 40s and trained for 8 years to become a specialist. He is now in his 60s. Still practicing and working harder than most people younger than himself. I think he loves the work, but I know he doesn't love the healthcare system and all its friction points. Being a doctor, you have a different set of task masters you have to answer to and the constant grind of interpersonal conflict is, imo, the source of their burnout. But if it is a passion of yours, do it earlier, the training demands good health and fair degree of energy. 

 

MD here. Late 40s, mid career. Agree with this.  The medicine is the easy and interesting part.  Add money and Type A personalities and it can be a grind.  See tons of burnout in my colleagues. Love my work, but personally wouldn't enter the field late in life. Especially if I was already super successful doing something else.

 

I will say that being a physician does have a way of becoming your identity making it hard to stop, regardless of pay.  I see many senior physicians who simply can't walk away.

[John Hjorth]

2 minutes ago, ICUMD said:

... I will say that being a physician does have a way of becoming your identity making it hard to stop, regardless of pay.  I see many senior physicians who simply can't walk away.

 

That is called a calling.  It is certainly a thing for doctors and nurses, and a good one! Some day - within the next decade or so - , I expect you will reveal what the rest of the remaining three letters in your CoBF board handle is about.  [Intensive Care Unit?]

[sswan11]

My dad is a 90 year old neurologist who is still working.  We (his kids) have to drive him to work, as he has macular degeneration, but he still practices (at a large teaching hospital).

[ICUMD]

56 minutes ago, John Hjorth said:

 

That is called a calling.  It is certainly a thing for doctors and nurses, and a good one! Some day - within the next decade or so - , I expect you will reveal what the rest of the remaining three letters in your CoBF board handle is about.  [Intensive Care Unit?]

Yes, I'm an Intensive Care Physician aka Critical Care.  Sometimes we're called Intensivists.

[Spekulatius]

On 6/5/2023 at 8:03 AM, Jaygo said:

This stuff is all so relative. Here in the northern burbs of Toronto  I would say around 20 million. Some guy on my street has that much Parked in his garage and I’m over here with a mortgage and leaving the house at 530am every morning. When I was in Spain this past winter I’d put it around 2 mill or less in most places (not Marbella or Madrid) 
 

my number is 2 mill and no mortgage, I couldn’t care less about displaying wealth so that helps. I’ll be rich enough not to worry and poor enough my kids will still have to work

 

on average I’d say 12 million is the new millionaire. 

But - why would you live in Toronto, if you have $20M? The reason to live in megacities is make money for the most part. There is no reason to stay in big cities if you have the money unless you really like living there for personally reasons.

[Jaygo]

14 minutes ago, Spekulatius said:

But - why would you live in Toronto, if you have $20M? The reason to live in megacities is make money for the most part. There is no reason to stay in big cities if you have the money unless you really like living there for personally reasons.

If I had tons of money I’d still stay here at least part time, my roots are here, my friends and most importantly my kids friends are here so they would want to stick around. 
 

at this point in life my priorities place my children and our relationship above everything else. 
 

Canadians bitch and complain with the best of them but it’s not a bad place to be despite what we say. 
 

just curious spek, where would you be?

[Ulti]

2 hours ago, ICUMD said:

I will say that being a physician does have a way of becoming your identity making it hard to stop, regardless of pay.  I see many senior physicians who simply can't walk away.

On the flip side of the coin, I have many colleagues (covering all specialties in medical\dental ) who have walked away and never looked back....Between factors such as Covid, PE, complexity of cases combined with Type A patients,

etc.; leaving was a simple decision. Many just " dabble a little "... hard to turn down friends\colleagues who want a "second opinion" on a case. None , if they used their hands for a living, are still " operating ".

 

[rohitc99]

2 hours ago, sswan11 said:

My dad is a 90 year old neurologist who is still working.  We (his kids) have to drive him to work, as he has macular degeneration, but he still practices (at a large teaching hospital).

+100 ! wow, talk of contributing to the society and others 

[maxthetrade]

On 6/6/2023 at 5:08 PM, Blugolds11 said:

Costco offers some of the best of the best wagyu beef. Wagyu typically refers to a specific breed of cow from Japan and has a reputation for having some of the most flavorful, marbled beef in the world. It's also known for being the most expensive—starting at around $250 per pound.

The name is typically misused by imitators trying to hop on the bandwagon, but Costco's Wagyu is the real deal. They import their A5 Wagyu (the highest quality distinction available) from the Kagoshima Prefecture in Japan. They offer several different cuts at steep discounts. For example, their thinly sliced striploin is sold for $99.99 a pound, less than half the price at specialty butcher shops

 

Looks like it's the real deal, amazing price! 

 

[Red Lion]

19 hours ago, jfan said:

I have a friend who was a successful CEO of a public traded company that got bought out. His dream was always to become a doctor. He got into medical school in his 40s and trained for 8 years to become a specialist. He is now in his 60s. Still practicing and working harder than most people younger than himself. I think he loves the work, but I know he doesn't love the healthcare system and all its friction points. Being a doctor, you have a different set of task masters you have to answer to and the constant grind of interpersonal conflict is, imo, the source of their burnout. But if it is a passion of yours, do it earlier, the training demands good health and fair degree of energy. 

 

Your friend sounds like a truly impressive person.

[CorpRaider]

On 6/9/2023 at 1:56 AM, jfan said:

I have a friend who was a successful CEO of a public traded company that got bought out. His dream was always to become a doctor. He got into medical school in his 40s and trained for 8 years to become a specialist. He is now in his 60s. Still practicing and working harder than most people younger than himself. I think he loves the work, but I know he doesn't love the healthcare system and all its friction points. Being a doctor, you have a different set of task masters you have to answer to and the constant grind of interpersonal conflict is, imo, the source of their burnout. But if it is a passion of yours, do it earlier, the training demands good health and fair degree of energy. 

 

Interesting.  Thank you for sharing.  There are some driven, accomplished people out there.  My classmate was a retired partner in a plastic surgery practice from a famous a HNW community in L.A. and I think he started out with one of the white shoe wall street firms after graduation.  I find it useful to keep those examples in mind. 

Edited June 10, 2023 by CorpRaider

[Guest]

A decent way to look at this is by a percentage of the population and see what net worth relates. So is "rich" the top 5%? 1%? .000001?

If it's 1%, that's about $5 million in US.

 

https://fortune.com/2023/05/16/us-one-percent-net-worth-monaco-switzerland-australia/

Edited June 10, 2023 by stahleyp

[Guest]

On 6/5/2023 at 3:19 PM, Blugolds11 said:

 

We went with a foreign Au Pair. Was cheaper than daycare by a couple hundred a month, but the real "value" is in the flexibility, no need to take and pick up from a location outside the home. can set their hours as you wish, up to 46/week I believe and if you do the math, it works out to be like $8/hr. Work hours can change week to week so if parents want to plan a getaway they can for an evening etc. Also, they can watch more than one child, and thats when the savings really pile up, rather than paying for two kids in daycare. 

 

Childcare costs are staggering no matter how you slice it. 

 

Where is your au pair from? What agency? Our au pair is from Brazil. We pay $200 a week (about $9,000 in yearly agency fees) for 45 hours a week. We also cover her food, car insurance, and phone. Quite a bit cheaper than a nanny.