Russia-Ukrainian War

[Viking]

18 minutes ago, Gregmal said:

The reaction to Poland offering some old fighter jets is all one needs to see to understand the situation. “Oh no, no, no you don’t. That’ll trigger a conflict and we would likely get dragged in! No!”…..far cry from the “we banded together and showed Russia who’s boss!” Narrative. 
 

In North America we re peddling our propaganda and some are buying it as always. In Russia they’re pushing their propaganda, and some are probably buying it too. China is loving it. And in Ukraine their lives and country are destroyed. This is what happens when a peon country flirts with the xenophobic big boys.

OK, i’ll bite… if Poland flies the jets into Germany and then the US flies them into Ukraine (which i think was the proposal) would that not give Putin the ability to ‘claim’ that NATO was now directly involved? And give Putin carte blanche to respond how he saw fit? 
 

Are you suggesting NATO should get involved? That “we banded together and showed Russia who’s boss!” thing you mentioned above?

 

i think it is smart for NATO to be very careful… Putin is a snake and will twist anything he is given.

[changegonnacome]

14 minutes ago, Viking said:

Europe is taking unprecedented actions to support Ukraine. You might want to expand your sources. Quick Google search and you should be on your way. Not sure if you are aware but Ukraine is NOT part of NATO. 

 

Sorry you posted while i was writing the below - Europe's response to Ukraine should not be seen in the context of supporting Ukraine.....it should be seen in the context of blind self interest.......if they cared about Ukraine they'd go fight there......they aren't, not a drop of blood has been spilt by the EU27, because they don't really care............what they care about is the even dim prospect that Putin would continue on past Ukraine into Poland etc. THIS is what Europe is reacting to and why the solidarity was found to come together.

 

 

 1 hour ago, Viking said:

Europe’s reaction to the Russian invasion of Ukraine has been a BIG surprise to me. First, the solidarity in the EU right now is nuts - getting 27 diverse nations to ALL agree on anything is pretty much impossible. Even the Swiss are involved. This is highly instructive: they are unified like never before on the threat Putin and Russia pose today.

 

Yep its amazing when a country/bloc feels an existential threat isn't how they'll react, so I'm not that amazed on the solidarity of the Europeans????Existential threats get reactions....Cuban Missle crisis?........& I dunno like NATO/EU/USA encroaching into Ukraine set off existential threat thoughts in Russia.....well mind fuck guys.....Putin just did to the Europeans/NATO/USA what they had been doing to him for the last 10 years......Putin/Russia encroached  into Ukraine and made it not neutral and not a buffer state.....and the West literally shit its pants and managed to rally together on sanctions etc................so...............how does everybody stop wearing adult diapers in the West and in Russia?............well Ukraine goes back to being a buffer state again and everybody behind closed doors agrees it was madness to ever get into a tangle ever again over Ukraine. 

Edited March 10, 2022 by changegonnacome
Just made one post

[Viking]

4 minutes ago, changegonnacome said:

 

Putin just did to the Europeans/NATO/USA what they had been doing to him for the last 10 years......

Clearly i am an idiot. I missed that war (or was it more than one?). Please answer:
1.) What country did Europeans/NATO/USA invade in the last 10 years?

2.) How long did the war last?
3.) How many people were killed by the Europeans/NATO/USA?

4.) How many soldiers did the Europeans/NATO/USA lose?

5.) What was the economic cost to the country that was invaded?

6.) What was the international communities response?

[Gregmal]

8 minutes ago, Viking said:

Ukraine is NOT part of NATO.

Interesting. You don’t think hanging that carrot to trigger aggression had anything to do with this whole thing? You’re boasting that these politicians are what? Talking about getting energy elsewhere? Self interest I’d say? You say what? Sending big bad Vlad a message? Definitely not standing with Ukraine. None are standing behind Ukraine even as Zaleski begs them yet the media tells you otherwise and you believe them?

 

You say Europe is taking unprecedented action, even though you offer few real specifics and those you cite have very little to do with actually helping Ukraine, but then ask me to Google things?

 

Dont know what to tell you Viking. As others have pointed out, thinking for yourself involves criticism from folks who tout the headline narratives. Differing opinions are not welcomed, sure. You talk about thinking for yourself but have repeatedly since I’ve been a member here fallen victim to swallowing headline narrative and agenda inspired rhetoric. The polls in 2016 and again last cycle. Trump/Russia. You were up in arms several times about Russian interference in the US elections because of tweets but when confronted about what the US did in Ukraine asked “where were the tanks”!
 

Somehow “we won and Putin is fucked” is all you get out of this which given the backdrop(Xenophobia towards Russia) isn’t surprising. If you want detail go back through all of this. Weird how it’s playing out very different from what was brandished the last few weeks. Where are the nukes? Who’s next up for the USSR conquest? Oh no, now it’s that Putin is stupid and all of Russia military is crumbling because they suck, that’s the prevailing MSM portrayal and not surprisingly, your perspective as well…coincidence? Weird.

 

Or maybe Russia finally drew a line in the sand and war broke out. Their goal was….exactly consistent with what they’ve repeatedly stated for almost 2 decades and in line with the release on Monday? US/EU/NATO fuck off in Ukraine or we ll take action.  Nah, too farfetched. Market reads that and realizes it’s been duped again? Another weird coincidence. Or I guess you think Monday around the same release they got wind that some Russian military tanks were too poorly engineered and things would turn out differently than they thought 2 weeks ago?
 

but sure, let’s talk about thinking for oneself as you lazily revert to pigeon holing the stance I’ve taken and described it, just the way the MSM has taught its disciples, as “Putin is a swell guy”. LOL it’s almost as if the responses and interpretations are from the textbook. And then on top like you’ve done before when called out will say I’m “personally attacking” even though making the previous assertions doesn’t qualify….it’s all so strange. 
 

also, cardboard still reads some of the stuff here. He s been on point with the markets lately to a crazy degree. He wanted me to ask how you took profits when you’re so heavily in cash and Fairfax is lower than the price you paid for it a couple days ago? Ok that’s in gest but I laughed when he emailed me about it. 

 

[Gregmal]

20 minutes ago, Viking said:

Putin is a snake and will twist anything he is given.

Interesting. Again. This seems so….consistent in all your stuff, and so inspired by…..can’t put my finger on it. MSM inspired?

 

and of course, if I do what we all “say” we aspire to do, “think for ourselves”, I must think Putin is a “swell guy”. No other in between I guess. He can’t possibly be an old school dictator who’s rationally telling foreign meddlers to get the fuck out of his backyard. Nope. Gotta be something else. Let me search around CNN or Wapo for a bit and I’ll get back to you on what that something else is.

 

cheers

[changegonnacome]

I think you missed my earlier point @Viking.......which was to point out that the EU27's reaction to this is not surprising at all, you seem impressed & surprised by the coordination & solidarity.......and I'm simply explaining the fact that when a buffer state like Ukraine that sits between two opposing factions (the West & Russia) becomes not a buffer state.......which by the way can happen either through MILITARY intervention or POLITICAL intervention......one faction on either side shits its pants.......so i just neatly explained two things......Why Russia Invaded Ukraine while ALSO explaining the EU27's solidarity that your surprised by and reading hell of alot into without considering the obvious which is the EU/NATO feels threatened ITSELF by Ukraine not being the buffer they thought it was. The EU/NATO couldn't give a shit about Ukraine, if they did they would be there fighting right now.

Edited March 10, 2022 by changegonnacome

[nsx5200]

21 hours ago, cubsfan said:

^^^ Gimme a break. The Palestinians don't leave Israel because it's the safest and best place to live 

precisely BECAUSE the Israeli's are in charge. You think they want to live in the hell hole West Bank, Jordan,

Gaza or Lebanon with the criminals terrorist Fatah, Hezbollah or Hamas in charge? Really?

 

The displaced Palestinians have been offered their own homeland AND peace 3X since 1999 - and of course

the criminals terrorist WILL NOT ALLOW IT. Those are the facts - and you can't change them with this 

stupid "narrative" bullshit.  The only "peace" that the Iranian backed criminals will accept is for Israel

to be wiped off the map.

 

The Palestinians can have peace, prosperity , jobs and safety IF they just stop killing people. PERIOD.

Seems that what the term "civilization" actually means.

I remember having a mock debate on this back in high school decades ago.  Back then both sides more or less came to the conclusion that Israel invaded and took over West Bank territories without any real good reason.  All the safety and other reasonings were pretty much not really significant.  At the end of the day, Israel just wanted more land.  Why?  Couldn’t explain it then, still can’t explain it today.  The closest thing I can think of is some ‘divine’ prophecy about some promised land leading to entitlement complex, which I think is what Putin is suffering from right now.  Over the decades of accumulating casual readings, my impression is that they are treating the Palestinians as second class citizens, if at that, and continuing to take over land while asking why the Palestinians are so angry.  In a way, it reminds me of the Angry Bird game…. In a very sad way.

 

I guess the short summary is that we see countries suffering from the Karen syndrome as well.  On a country-wide scale.

 

It makes me wonder.  Does having more land really mean a country is great?  We see countries with relatively small land area and natural resources accomplish great stuff like UK, Japan, Singapore, etc.   Doesn’t it show that to make a country great, it does not take land, but the quality of the people/government?

 

I find it amusing that great country have problems trying to keep people out where bad countries have issues keeping people in.  Use that yard stick to measure Russian in regards to what it is trying to do with the Ukrainian refugees.

 

The US immigration problem is a good problem to have compared to the alternative.

[Viking]

18 minutes ago, changegonnacome said:

 

Sorry you posted while i was writing the below - Europe's response to Ukraine should not be seen in the context of supporting Ukraine.....it should be seen in the context of blind self interest.......if they cared about Ukraine they'd go fight there......they aren't, not a drop of blood has been spilt by the EU27, because they don't really care............what they care about is the even dim prospect that Putin would continue on past Ukraine into Poland etc. THIS is what Europe is reacting to and why the solidarity was found to come together.

 

 

 1 hour ago, Viking said:

Europe’s reaction to the Russian invasion of Ukraine has been a BIG surprise to me. First, the solidarity in the EU right now is nuts - getting 27 diverse nations to ALL agree on anything is pretty much impossible. Even the Swiss are involved. This is highly instructive: they are unified like never before on the threat Putin and Russia pose today.

 

Yep its amazing when a country/bloc feels an existential threat isn't how they'll react, so I'm not that amazed on the solidarity of the Europeans????Existential threats get reactions....Cuban Missle crisis?........& I dunno like NATO/EU/USA encroaching into Ukraine set off existential threat thoughts in Russia.....well mind fuck guys.....Putin just did to the Europeans/NATO/USA what they had been doing to him for the last 10 years......Putin/Russia encroached  into Ukraine and made it not neutral and not a buffer state.....and the West literally shit its pants and managed to rally together on sanctions etc................so...............how does everybody stop wearing adult diapers in the West and in Russia?............well Ukraine goes back to being a buffer state again and everybody behind closed doors agrees it was madness to ever get into a tangle ever again over Ukraine. 

As a result of the unprecedented sanctions on Russia, Europe is tanking its economy. The sanctions are being applied in support of Ukraine - to help force a Russian exit. If not in support of Ukraine, why do you think Europe is applying sanctions and tanking their economy?

[Blugolds11]

9 hours ago, mcliu said:

Some more background on the Azov regiment fighting in Ukraine.

Seems like the West has no problem supporting these guys.

 

 

https://time.com/5926750/azov-far-right-movement-facebook/

Within days of his release, Biletsky set out to assemble a far-right militia. “That was our rise to the surface after a long period underground,” Biletsky told TIME in an interview that winter in Ukraine. The insignia he chose for the militia combined two symbols—the “black sun” and the “wolf’s hook”—both of which were used by the German Nazis during World War II.

Among the militias that formed to resist the Russian forces, Biletsky’s followers turned out to be among the most disciplined and battle-ready. “They held the line even after everybody left,” says Serhiy Taruta, a metals magnate and former governor of the frontline region of Donetsk who helped finance and equip Azov in the early months of the war. For their bravery on the battlefield, Biletsky and other Azov commanders were lauded as national heroes. “These are our best warriors,” then President Petro Poroshenko said at an award ceremony in 2014. “Our best volunteers.”

From across Europe and the U.S., dozens of fighters came to join Azov that year, many of them bearing tattoos and rap sheets earned in the neo-Nazi underground back home. The Ukrainian authorities welcomed many of them, and in some cases granted them citizenship. Within the war’s first year, Biletsky’s militia was officially absorbed into the National Guard, becoming a regiment within Ukraine’s armed forces.

 

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/3/1/who-are-the-azov-regiment

In January 2018, Azov rolled out its street patrol unit called National Druzhyna to “restore” order in the capital, Kyiv. Instead, the unit carried out pogroms against the Roma community and attacked members of the LGBTQ community.

“Ukraine is the world’s only nation to have a neo-Nazi formation in its armed forces,” a correspondent for the US-based magazine, the Nation, wrote in 2019.

 

In June 2015, both Canada and the United States announced that their own forces will not support or train the Azov regiment, citing its neo-Nazi connections.

The following year, however, the US lifted the ban under pressure from the Pentagon.

In October 2019, 40 members of the US Congress led by Representative Max Rose signed a letter unsuccessfully calling for the US State Department to designate Azov as a “foreign terrorist organisation” (FTO). Last April, Representative Elissa Slotkin repeated the request – which included other white supremacist groups – to the Biden administration.

 

Im no Nazi supporter obviously, their entire idea turns my stomach and makes me sick, that they would fly the Nazi flag makes me livid etc...BUT given the current circumstances...you have an already mobilized group of violent people with more experience than many in your army, ready to fight for your side against the Russians...I dont know that they can afford to tell them to "stand down and stand by" (see what I did there) when the Russians are rolling in. 

 

Im sure they figure, lets take care of the immediate threat, that we all die, first...and then work out our grievances after...America has these shit bags too, and I hate them...but if the Chinese or Russians were rolling through the streets of my town, I wouldnt ask the guy in the foxhole next to me if he was a Nazi...

[changegonnacome]

4 minutes ago, Viking said:

The sanctions are being applied in support of Ukraine - to help force a Russian exit. 

 

I've explained a couple of times now - its not in support of Ukraine.......don't you see its to protect the EU/NATO, cause it now feels threatened that Russia is now officially at its door step? See Europe liked Ukraine as a buffer too and its being reminded of that now. To support Ukraine would be to go fight there.

 

Edited March 10, 2022 by changegonnacome

[Dinar]

4 minutes ago, nsx5200 said:

I remember having a mock debate on this back in high school decades ago.  Back then both sides more or less came to the conclusion that Israel invaded and took over West Bank territories without any real good reason.  All the safety and other reasonings were pretty much not really significant.  At the end of the day, Israel just wanted more land.  Why?  Couldn’t explain it then, still can’t explain it today.  The closest thing I can think of is some ‘divine’ prophecy about some promised land leading to entitlement complex, which I think is what Putin is suffering from right now.  Over the decades of accumulating casual readings, my impression is that they are treating the Palestinians as second class citizens, if at that, and continuing to take over land while asking why the Palestinians are so angry.  In a way, it reminds me of the Angry Bird game…. In a very sad way.

 

I guess the short summary is that we see countries suffering from the Karen syndrome as well.  On a country-wide scale.

 

It makes me wonder.  Does having more land really mean a country is great?  We see countries with relatively small land area and natural resources accomplish great stuff like UK, Japan, Singapore, etc.   Doesn’t it show that to make a country great, it does not take land, but the quality of the people/government?

 

I find it amusing that great country have problems trying to keep people out where bad countries have issues keeping people in.  Use that yard stick to measure Russian in regards to what it is trying to do with the Ukrainian refugees.

 

The US immigration problem is a good problem to have compared to the alternative.

Really?  You should read it on the 1967 war.  Actually, Arab armies massed on Israeli borders and the Suez Canal was closed to Israeli shipping.  Nasser was promising to toss Jews into the sea.  You are entitled to your opinion, not to invent facts.

[Gregmal]

7 minutes ago, Viking said:

As a result of the unprecedented sanctions on Russia, Europe is tanking its economy. The sanctions are being applied in support of Ukraine - to help force a Russian exit. If not in support of Ukraine, why do you think Europe is applying sanctions and tanking their economy?

Easy. Same reason as the US. Cuz the politicians are bungling things. Between the COVID response in Europe and the inflation problem in the states. And the politicians need someone to blame. 
 

if you’re going to support Ukraine, support them! Instead we freak out when Poland offers real help and boast about how our sanctions are harming innocent Russian people because “eventually” it’ll come back to bite Putin even though we have more than enough evidence spanning decades that fucking the innocent citizens doesn’t do jack to a dictator himself. See? Shitty and rationally void arguments aren’t hard to spot, often because they make no sense. 
 

i mean it sounds like you just parroted Jen Psaki here. You realize Europe was fucked and energy prices were soaring WELL BEFORE all this? You didn’t just swallow another narrative did you? 

Edited March 10, 2022 by Gregmal

[changegonnacome]

Final thought on the motives of Europe here............is that I can almost hear the whispered voices of the diplomats & beaucrats in the Brussels......."God I wish it could just go back to the way it was, we shouldn't have encouraged Ukraine to become so Western, what we were thinking, we like peace on the continent why did we let the American's meddle on our doorstep we've seen what they do in other regions of the world. We should have told them to back the fuck away from American interventionism & tokenism in Ukraine"

 

My prediction is the EU & Russia will get to do the time warp......Russia will withdraw from Ukraine in exchange for the majority of sanctions being lifted and they'll figure out a way to go back to 2007......when the idea of Ukrainian accession to NATO was just not even imagined as possible.

Edited March 10, 2022 by changegonnacome

[nsx5200]

15 minutes ago, Dinar said:

Really?  You should read it on the 1967 war.  Actually, Arab armies massed on Israeli borders and the Suez Canal was closed to Israeli shipping.  Nasser was promising to toss Jews into the sea.  You are entitled to your opinion, not to invent facts.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Partition_Plan_for_Palestine
 

You poke the bear, expect the bear to bite.  It seems like the facts haven’t really changed.  A minority trying to rule an area due to Karen syndrome.

[Viking]

15 minutes ago, Gregmal said:

Interesting. You don’t think hanging that carrot to trigger aggression had anything to do with this whole thing? You’re boasting that these politicians are what? Talking about getting energy elsewhere? Self interest I’d say? You say what? Sending big bad Vlad a message? Definitely not standing with Ukraine. None are standing behind Ukraine even as Zaleski begs them yet the media tells you otherwise and you believe them?

 

You say Europe is taking unprecedented action, even though you offer few real specifics and those you cite have very little to do with actually helping Ukraine, but then ask me to Google things?

 

Dont know what to tell you Viking. As others have pointed out, thinking for yourself involves criticism from folks who tout the headline narratives. Differing opinions are not welcomed, sure. You talk about thinking for yourself but have repeatedly since I’ve been a member here fallen victim to swallowing headline narrative and agenda inspired rhetoric. The polls in 2016 and again last cycle. Trump/Russia. You were up in arms several times about Russian interference in the US elections because of tweets but when confronted about what the US did in Ukraine asked “where were the tanks”!
 

Somehow “we won and Putin is fucked” is all you get out of this which given the backdrop(Xenophobia towards Russia) isn’t surprising. If you want detail go back through all of this. Weird how it’s playing out very different from what was brandished the last few weeks. Where are the nukes? Who’s next up for the USSR conquest? Oh no, now it’s that Putin is stupid and all of Russia military is crumbling because they suck, that’s the prevailing MSM portrayal and not surprisingly, your perspective as well…coincidence? Weird.

 

Or maybe Russia finally drew a line in the sand and war broke out. Their goal was….exactly consistent with what they’ve repeatedly stated for almost 2 decades and in line with the release on Monday? US/EU/NATO fuck off in Ukraine or we ll take action.  Nah, too farfetched. Market reads that and realizes it’s been duped again? Another weird coincidence. Or I guess you think Monday around the same release they got wind that some Russian military tanks were too poorly engineered and things would turn out differently than they thought 2 weeks ago?
 

but sure, let’s talk about thinking for oneself as you lazily revert to pigeon holing the stance I’ve taken and described it, just the way the MSM has taught its disciples, as “Putin is a swell guy”. LOL it’s almost as if the responses and interpretations are from the textbook. And then on top like you’ve done before when called out will say I’m “personally attacking” even though making the previous assertions doesn’t qualify….it’s all so strange. 
 

also, cardboard still reads some of the stuff here. He s been on point with the markets lately to a crazy degree. He wanted me to ask how you took profits when you’re so heavily in cash and Fairfax is lower than the price you paid for it a couple days ago? Ok that’s in gest but I laughed when he emailed me about it. 

 

@Gregmal i love to debate ideas. People post lots of things i don’t understand. So i ask questions about the ideas they post. What is the build? What is the actual logical argument? I ask questions because i am hoping to learn something new. I think my posts have more information than most posters provide (including links) so i try an do my part to let others see what my logic is and where i am getting my information from. And i welcome a healthy debate on the facts. When people ask specific questions i try and answer them, usually in a thoughtful way. 
 

1.) “You don’t think hanging that carrot to trigger aggression had anything to do with this whole thing?” - My view, and i have stated it multiple times, is Ukraine is a sovereign country and its citizens have the right to self determination. Yes, Putin disagreed. That does not give him the right to invade a sovereign country and bomb and kill its inhabitants. And i thought the exact same thing when the US/West (including Canada) went into Iraq - it was a humanitarian disaster. And wrong. Idiotic. Just like what Putin is doing now.
2.) “You’re boasting that these politicians are what? Talking about getting energy elsewhere? Self interest I’d say? You say what? Sending big bad Vlad a message? Definitely not standing with Ukraine. None are standing behind Ukraine even as Zaleski begs them yet the media tells you otherwise and you believe them?” i stand by what i just said about Europe and what i think so i do not need to repeat it here. What is your infatuation with “the media tells you” thing? Why is it when someone says somethoing you do not understand or agree with that its “the media tells you”? FYI, there are lots of great ways to very good information on different topics other than the media… 

3.) “You say Europe is taking unprecedented action, even though you offer few real specifics and those you cite have very little to do with actually helping Ukraine, but then ask me to Google things?” You are right, i did not provide specifics of what Europe was doing… my posts tend to be too long to begin with… instead, I presented two broad themes of why i felt we were seeing unprecedented action from Europe to support Ukraine: one political and one economic. Are you seriously suggesting Europe is NOT doing anything of substance to help Ukraine? Military aid? Intelligence aid? Supplies (pretty much everything you can think of)? Massive sanctions on Russia? Humanitarian aid? Support for millions of refugees? The list goes on and on. 
4.) “Differing opinions are not welcomed.” Diversity of opinion is what makes the world go round. You might want to re-read some of your past posts see how ‘welcoming’ you sound to the opinions of others. 

Now you have lots more questions in your post… and i am not sure if you want me to answer them or not… let me know if you want me to carry on. 
————-

You did ask one investing question at the end of your post. “also, cardboard still reads some of the stuff here. He s been on point with the markets lately to a crazy degree. He wanted me to ask how you took profits when you’re so heavily in cash and Fairfax is lower than the price you paid for it a couple days ago? Ok that’s in gest but I laughed when he emailed me about it.”

- Did i say i sold Fairfax today? To clarify I did not sell any Fairfax. Forestry is a sector i have been posting lots about lately. Resolute is my favourite name to trade of the lumber stocks; it is wicked volatile. I think i have said pretty consistently that i think Resolute is a buy in at US$12. That was one of the positions i was happy to sell today for a decent short term gain.  And i will be happy to buy back should it fall back to $12 (although lumber prices have started to come down the last 2 days so i will be paying attention to that moving forward). Say ‘hey’ to Cardboard from me  

 

[cubsfan]

39 minutes ago, nsx5200 said:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Partition_Plan_for_Palestine
 

You poke the bear, expect the bear to bite.  It seems like the facts haven’t really changed.  A minority trying to rule an area due to Karen syndrome.

 

^^^ Don't post useless wikipedia passages to make your argument - I hope you are better than that.

 

Yeah, the Palestinians may well be treated as second class citizens in Israel - is that so bad given the alternative?

Don't be a snowflake - their lives in the West Bank and other Arab nations are totally shit - relegated to squalid 

refugee camps where they have no hope. Of course, the PLO leadership and Hamas WANTED it that way.

It provides the criminal terrorist with an endless supply of suicide bombers with no hope but to go down

as martyrs fighting the PLO/Hezbollah cause.

 

Meanwhile, your "second class citizens" in Israel can live a safe and prosperous life for their FAMILIES,

so long as they behave like civilized people. 

 

Tell me one country that has taken the Palestinians in and shown them a decent life?

 

Their neighbors don't give a living shit about them - the are just useful idiots for the destruction of Israel.

[Dinar]

1 hour ago, nsx5200 said:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Partition_Plan_for_Palestine
 

You poke the bear, expect the bear to bite.  It seems like the facts haven’t really changed.  A minority trying to rule an area due to Karen syndrome.

Read up on the 1948 war and read up on 1967 war.  Arab armies attacked in 1948 and were planning to attack in 1967.  Link that you posted has nothing to do with the discussion.  

[Blugolds11]

@cubsfan refugees anywhere generally dont enjoy the same standard of living as citizens, thats part of the deal...theyre refugees... But since you asked..Jordan has taken in 20% of the total Palestinian refugees. 

 

I've never been in a refugee camp, but I've been to Amman, it's no Omaha, but I enjoyed my time there. 

 

 

[Ulti]

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2022-03-09/niall-ferguson-ukraine-invasion-struggles-could-be-the-end-for-putin?srnd=premium

[Parsad]

1 hour ago, Gregmal said:

Interesting. You don’t think hanging that carrot to trigger aggression had anything to do with this whole thing? You’re boasting that these politicians are what? Talking about getting energy elsewhere? Self interest I’d say? You say what? Sending big bad Vlad a message? Definitely not standing with Ukraine. None are standing behind Ukraine even as Zaleski begs them yet the media tells you otherwise and you believe them?

 

You say Europe is taking unprecedented action, even though you offer few real specifics and those you cite have very little to do with actually helping Ukraine, but then ask me to Google things?

 

Dont know what to tell you Viking. As others have pointed out, thinking for yourself involves criticism from folks who tout the headline narratives. Differing opinions are not welcomed, sure. You talk about thinking for yourself but have repeatedly since I’ve been a member here fallen victim to swallowing headline narrative and agenda inspired rhetoric. The polls in 2016 and again last cycle. Trump/Russia. You were up in arms several times about Russian interference in the US elections because of tweets but when confronted about what the US did in Ukraine asked “where were the tanks”!
 

Somehow “we won and Putin is fucked” is all you get out of this which given the backdrop(Xenophobia towards Russia) isn’t surprising. If you want detail go back through all of this. Weird how it’s playing out very different from what was brandished the last few weeks. Where are the nukes? Who’s next up for the USSR conquest? Oh no, now it’s that Putin is stupid and all of Russia military is crumbling because they suck, that’s the prevailing MSM portrayal and not surprisingly, your perspective as well…coincidence? Weird.

 

Or maybe Russia finally drew a line in the sand and war broke out. Their goal was….exactly consistent with what they’ve repeatedly stated for almost 2 decades and in line with the release on Monday? US/EU/NATO fuck off in Ukraine or we ll take action.  Nah, too farfetched. Market reads that and realizes it’s been duped again? Another weird coincidence. Or I guess you think Monday around the same release they got wind that some Russian military tanks were too poorly engineered and things would turn out differently than they thought 2 weeks ago?
 

but sure, let’s talk about thinking for oneself as you lazily revert to pigeon holing the stance I’ve taken and described it, just the way the MSM has taught its disciples, as “Putin is a swell guy”. LOL it’s almost as if the responses and interpretations are from the textbook. And then on top like you’ve done before when called out will say I’m “personally attacking” even though making the previous assertions doesn’t qualify….it’s all so strange. 
 

also, cardboard still reads some of the stuff here. He s been on point with the markets lately to a crazy degree. He wanted me to ask how you took profits when you’re so heavily in cash and Fairfax is lower than the price you paid for it a couple days ago? Ok that’s in gest but I laughed when he emailed me about it. 

 

 

Greg, this is out of line...consider this a warning!  Cardboard is not a member here because of his behavior.  Throwing around something you discussed with him privately at another member isn't appropriate.  And what does it have to do with the discussion you were having with the party involved?  Let's leave that stuff out.  Cheers!

[Gregmal]

Just now, Parsad said:

 

Greg, this is out of line...consider this a warning!  Cardboard is not a member here because of his behavior.  Throwing around something you discussed with him privately at another member isn't appropriate.  And what does it have to do with the discussion you were having with the party involved?  Let's leave that stuff out.  Cheers!

What is out of line? Viking did say he took profit today and thats the basis of where that came from. I dont know how thats out of line? It wasn't discussed privately, HE asked me to ask Viking that question. 

 

Either way Im kinda over this. Everyone always claims to be an independent and free thinker but when you always come to the same conclusions on the same things, and those things happen to mirror the prevailing opinions of the MSM...IDK. I'm sure if we put up a poll of members and let people vote on who is an independent and critical thinker the results would tell the truth. When all else fails we just call someone a Russian agent or Putin supporter because thats the textbook. EU and US didnt inherit inflation and high energy from Putin...they have themselves to thank for that but now have a convenient excuse. And no one has really supported Ukraine, just ask Zalensky....

[cubsfan]

21 minutes ago, Blugolds11 said:

@cubsfan refugees anywhere generally dont enjoy the same standard of living as citizens, thats part of the deal...theyre refugees... But since you asked..Jordan has taken in 20% of the total Palestinian refugees. 

 

I've never been in a refugee camp, but I've been to Amman, it's no Omaha, but I enjoyed my time there. 

 

 

Dude - we're talking about Palestinians that have been refugees for 30-40 years. IF their Arab brothers had any

real compassion, they'd have integrated them into their countries. What's that say about their "second class citizen" status?

 

At least the 2M living in Israel have a chance!

Edited March 10, 2022 by cubsfan

[Parsad]

12 minutes ago, Gregmal said:

What is out of line? Viking did say he took profit today and thats the basis of where that came from. I dont know how thats out of line? It wasn't discussed privately, HE asked me to ask Viking that question. 

 

Either way Im kinda over this. Everyone always claims to be an independent and free thinker but when you always come to the same conclusions on the same things, and those things happen to mirror the prevailing opinions of the MSM...IDK. I'm sure if we put up a poll of members and let people vote on who is an independent and critical thinker the results would tell the truth. When all else fails we just call someone a Russian agent or Putin supporter because thats the textbook. EU and US didnt inherit inflation and high energy from Putin...they have themselves to thank for that but now have a convenient excuse. And no one has really supported Ukraine, just ask Zalensky....

 

Saying Cardboard was wondering inflames the situation.  You could have asked the same question yourself, but saying Cardboard was asking...you know that's a trigger comment...almost like a "Your Momma".  

 

I don't need to deal with Cardboard shit.  Tell him to pay his friggin' $49.99 if he wants me to deal with it!  Really, his fee should be like $4,999.99, because he stirred the pot like no one else.  Cheers!

[Ulti]

https://warontherocks.com/2022/03/maintaining-americas-nuclear-deterrent/

[mcliu]

13 hours ago, Blugolds11 said:

 

Im no Nazi supporter obviously, their entire idea turns my stomach and makes me sick, that they would fly the Nazi flag makes me livid etc...BUT given the current circumstances...you have an already mobilized group of violent people with more experience than many in your army, ready to fight for your side against the Russians...I dont know that they can afford to tell them to "stand down and stand by" (see what I did there) when the Russians are rolling in. 

 

Im sure they figure, lets take care of the immediate threat, that we all die, first...and then work out our grievances after...America has these shit bags too, and I hate them...but if the Chinese or Russians were rolling through the streets of my town, I wouldnt ask the guy in the foxhole next to me if he was a Nazi...

 

That's my initial assessment as well. But after some research (I really recommend everyone to do their own due diligence on this rather than take the media at its word), it seems like nazi ideology is much more prevalent than I expected. Going beyond the current conflict. For example, the Azov unit has been incorporated since 2014. The Ukrainian govt has been funding far-right groups for many years.

https://www.bellingcat.com/news/uk-and-europe/2019/07/16/ukrainian-far-right-extremists-receive-state-funds-to-teach-patriotism/

 

https://www.ukrweekly.com/uwwp/canada-marking-125-years-of-ukrainian-settlement/ 

Here is the previous Ukrainian Parliament Chairman meeting Justin Trudeau in Canada. Turns out he founded the Socialist-Nationalist party in 1991. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andriy_Parubiy

 

Western media seem to be downplaying this, but I fear that a Ukrainian victory will only embolden nazi ideology in the country.

 

Here is an Azov youth training camp: Notice the background picture on their shirts. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Sun_(symbol)

 

Short documentary: https://www.jakehanrahan.com/azov-youth