73 Reds Posted January 4 Posted January 4 13 hours ago, John Hjorth said: Geez, @73 Reds, Who has told you that Greenland is a country? Where have you got that from? You obviously have opinions about things you have absolutely no clue - master no basic conceptual insights, 101-basic facts - about! - No knowledge, at all - It seems! - - - o 0 o - - - Like Mike [ @cubsfan ] posted not so long ago today, in one of his usual 'half liners' : "Who cares", right? - - - o 0 o - - - -So, let's just flood CofB&F with nonsense, rubbish! Sorry, John. Meant to say large hunk of ice. Good for making drinks and as a talking point.
73 Reds Posted January 4 Posted January 4 12 hours ago, dealraker said: Disappointing opinions and facts; just disappointing. It isn't the lack of accuracy, its the lack of even caring. Caring about what? The bully pulpit is alive and well this weekend. Stale whining uttered every time something happens that in any way may be attributable to Trump. Yet how quickly each and every event seems to get lost or forgotten when the next such event surfaces. Epstein who? Then there are those who pretend to play judge and jury without the legal training a TV Matlock. Good thing we have a justice system in place that despite its deficiencies is still better than any other place in the World. All the while, the vast silent majority who voted for Trump and his policies sits back largely content that what they voted for is actually being put in place. When did those on the other side parse every action by the prior Administration as if the world were ending every day? Oh wait, there was no action from four years of Weekend at Bernies other than allowing the Country to slowly degrade into a form of socialistic chaos. Trump had and has a lot of cleaning up to do. Janitor in chief who can still run circles around those of you who claim he is too old. Don't like his polices? There is another election coming up in a few years. Until then the words "elections have consequences" should remain etched in all our brains, particularly those who decided that voting in the last election was not a worthwhile endeavor. One can only wonder how many of Trump's most harshest critics decided to sit out the last election. The hypocrisy of inaction.
Mephistopheles Posted January 4 Posted January 4 Gotta give Trump credit for pulling this off with a scalpel with probably close to zero civilian casualties. Let’s see if he can pull some similar shit in Iran.
John Hjorth Posted January 4 Posted January 4 Almost full and total radio silence from the Danish Government this weekend. All this Venezuela & Greenland stuff everywhere in the Danish news media to an extent that is to me nauseating.
Gregmal Posted January 4 Posted January 4 There were quite a few people here, opining quite emphatically on Elon Musks “Nazi Salute” a year ago. I’d imagine they’re just on vacation now or haven’t yet seen Mamdani doing the “Nazi thing” but upon learning of it, will bombard us with similar hot takes!
cwericb Posted January 4 Posted January 4 16 hours ago, Spooky said: I'm starting to doubt the credibility of the FIFA peace prize. Haha!! Good one!
cwericb Posted January 4 Posted January 4 19 hours ago, RichardGibbons said: I think Canada is in jeopardy. I'd give it a 2% chance. I think it'd happen roughly the same way that it happened with VZ--yelling about drugs and socialism, with the added justification that it is necessary for American defence. And, because Trump would be doing it, I'd expect some people on COBAF to say it was justified. At this point, it's pretty clear how this stuff works to anyone who cares to think. Agreed. He would do his best to economically strangle us and reduce opposition to the idea. But Canada is a huge, well educated country and a lot of Canadians would simply not stand for it. Look at how many small countries have successfully kicked the US out of their countries. I mean if you can't even handle Afghanistan ......
cubsfan Posted January 4 Posted January 4 1 hour ago, Mephistopheles said: Gotta give Trump credit for pulling this off with a scalpel with probably close to zero civilian casualties. Let’s see if he can pull some similar shit in Iran. @Mephistopheles - I'm sending you a MAGA hat!
John Hjorth Posted January 4 Posted January 4 1 hour ago, Gregmal said: There were quite a few people here, opining quite emphatically on Elon Musks “Nazi Salute” a year ago. I’d imagine they’re just on vacation now or haven’t yet seen Mamdani doing the “Nazi thing” but upon learning of it, will bombard us with similar hot takes! I've seen both, Greg [ @Gregmal ], US Politics is so strange, foreign compared to Northern European Politics for a Northern European citizen, almost incomprehendable at times. But Itry I do my best to understand it, but it's really hard.
UK Posted January 4 Posted January 4 https://www.cnbc.com/2017/02/15/charlie-munger-says-trump-is-not-wrong-on-everything-so-roll-with-it.html President Trump “is not wrong on everything. Just because he isn’t like us, roll with it. And if there is a little danger, what the hell, you’re not going to live forever anyway.”
changegonnacome Posted January 4 Posted January 4 14 hours ago, Spekulatius said: I don’t think the Venezuelan happy to become an US colony. How does Trump government want to run the country and what happens if the election outcome is not to Trump’s liking? For sure - the range of outcomes from this point are very very large. re: VZ. The most hilarious thing on X are the MAGA folks who in their gullibility and naivety really do think that everything got fixed last night in Venezuela with the extraction of Maduro and that just like that Trump/USA are now "running" Venezuela because Trump told them so from a beach club in Florida. 'The remote colonization of Venezuela complete. Its just all oil cash dividends from now to eternity. The End.' Its a bit like Iran and the "obliterated" nuclear capability stuff. The threat is over because Donald said so. Reality is Iran is now racing towards a bomb at light speed with no international inspectors with eyeballs on anything....the next you'll hear about the Iranian nuclear program will be a seismic event or a joint US/Israel ground invasion to stop a seismic event. Meanwhile back in the real world you can see how the table is now set for serious trouble down the line. The reality is Donald has dragged the US now deep into the mud with Iran (as per the above) and the buffoon is knee deep into getting the US stuck in the mud in Venezuela.....perhaps the timeline will exceed his Presidency (that's the bull case for him).....but the Iranian nuclear story is not over and I can assure you the Venezuelan story isn't over and to believe Donald's marketing huckster overlay on both....well I guess you graduated with honors from Trump University.
73 Reds Posted January 4 Posted January 4 1 hour ago, changegonnacome said: For sure - the range of outcomes from this point are very very large. re: VZ. The most hilarious thing on X are the MAGA folks who in their gullibility and naivety really do think that everything got fixed last night in Venezuela with the extraction of Maduro and that just like that Trump/USA are now "running" Venezuela because Trump told them so from a beach club in Florida. 'The remote colonization of Venezuela complete. Its just all oil cash dividends from now to eternity. The End.' Its a bit like Iran and the "obliterated" nuclear capability stuff. The threat is over because Donald said so. Reality is Iran is now racing towards a bomb at light speed with no international inspectors with eyeballs on anything....the next you'll hear about the Iranian nuclear program will be a seismic event or a joint US/Israel ground invasion to stop a seismic event. Meanwhile back in the real world you can see how the table is now set for serious trouble down the line. The reality is Donald has dragged the US now deep into the mud with Iran (as per the above) and the buffoon is knee deep into getting the US stuck in the mud in Venezuela.....perhaps the timeline will exceed his Presidency (that's the bull case for him).....but the Iranian nuclear story is not over and I can assure you the Venezuelan story isn't over and to believe Donald's marketing huckster overlay on both....well I guess you graduated with honors from Trump University. Re. Iran an emphatic Nope. Imminent threats must be removed. Over and over again as long as necessary. There is, and never was an alternative.
dealraker Posted January 4 Posted January 4 58 minutes ago, changegonnacome said: For sure - the range of outcomes from this point are very very large. re: VZ. The most hilarious thing on X are the MAGA folks who in their gullibility and naivety really do think that everything got fixed last night in Venezuela with the extraction of Maduro and that just like that Trump/USA are now "running" Venezuela because Trump told them so from a beach club in Florida. 'The remote colonization of Venezuela complete. Its just all oil cash dividends from now to eternity. The End.' Its a bit like Iran and the "obliterated" nuclear capability stuff. The threat is over because Donald said so. Reality is Iran is now racing towards a bomb at light speed with no international inspectors with eyeballs on anything....the next you'll hear about the Iranian nuclear program will be a seismic event or a joint US/Israel ground invasion to stop a seismic event. Meanwhile back in the real world you can see how the table is now set for serious trouble down the line. The reality is Donald has dragged the US now deep into the mud with Iran (as per the above) and the buffoon is knee deep into getting the US stuck in the mud in Venezuela.....perhaps the timeline will exceed his Presidency (that's the bull case for him).....but the Iranian nuclear story is not over and I can assure you the Venezuelan story isn't over and to believe Donald's marketing huckster overlay on both....well I guess you graduated with honors from Trump University. Billions...trillions...coming our way from oil...nothing like it ever before...greatest ever...they will pay for all of it...drug trade (like drug costs) will be down 500%... Simple terms for simple minds.
73 Reds Posted January 4 Posted January 4 3 minutes ago, dealraker said: Billions...trillions...coming our way from oil...nothing like it ever before...greatest ever...they will pay for all of it...drug trade (like drug costs) will be down 500%... Simple terms for simple minds. New math?
John Hjorth Posted January 4 Posted January 4 (edited) Danish Prime Ministers Office [January 4th 2026] : Opinion "I have to say this very directly to the United States: It makes absolutely no sense to talk about the need for the United States to take over Greenland. The United States has no right to annex any of the three countries in the Commonwealth. The Kingdom of Denmark - and thus Greenland - is part of NATO and is therefore covered by the alliance's security guarantee. We already have a defense agreement between the Kingdom and the United States today, which gives the United States wide access to Greenland. And we, on the part of the Kingdom, have invested significantly in security in the Arctic. I would therefore strongly urge the United States to stop the threats against a historically close ally and against another country and another people who have said very clearly that they are not for sale.” - - - o 0 o - - - It popped up at 21:00, 9:00 PM on my devices, now ~50 minutes ago. - - - o 0 o - - - - - - o 0 o - - - European Union - External Action Statement [January 4th 2025] : Venezuela: Statement by the High Representative on the aftermath of the U.S. intervention in Venezuela Edited January 4 by John Hjorth
Sweet Posted January 4 Posted January 4 (edited) 20 hours ago, TwoCitiesCapital said: Right is what Trump does. Wrong is anything said by liberals. It's easy in MAGA-land. Most of the people here aren't defending Maduro - they're defending against the ideas of extrajudicial murders and targeting of civilian crafts, non-sanctioned invasions, and kidnapping world leaders i.e. things that are wrong regardless of who the target is and who is committing them. There's been a long line for Presidents on the right and left which committed similar actions - Trump isn't alone here. Just another on a long list of sins from this shit stain of a President. I'm very much the libertarian stand that your rights end where someone else's begin. Trump doesn't have the right to invade sovereign nations to do as he pleases - even if those sovereign nations are run by bad guys. Ends don't justify means. Unless if a direct threat to us, we shouldn't involve ourselves. The Venezuelans, or their neighbors, have more of a right to govern and engage here. If they didn't like Maduro, they should be the ones to do something about it. If that's being done, and there are ways we can provide aid, I'm ok with that. But unilaterally installing leaders and taking them out based on our political whims? Hasn't worked out so great for us over the decades as it often ends up the guys we installed are the bad guys we later removed. Trump's value is himself and his own interests and the Republican party only cares about "winning" and has abandoned all of their principles to do it in support of him. It's why he can run on releasing the Epstein files and then fight with every fiber of political capital to prevent it from happening. It's why he can run on not involving us in foreign wars while bombing Iran and Venezuela and selling arms to Israel less than a year into his term. It's why he can promise to balance the budget while running the largest ever peace time deficits outside of recessions....for a SECOND time!!! There's no guiding principals except what Trump wants and that changes with the wind. And the Republicans contort themselves into pretzels to defend it because their whole identity is wrapped up in this guy because there's nothing else to wrap it in - they've abandoned every principal the party used to stand for and it is ONLY Trump's party now. I agree largely with your post with caveats. Rights abusers have less right, criminals go to jail, Maduro and his predecessor stole elections, stole the people of VZ freedom, wrecked the country and the economy. Worse, they trafficked drugs and the regimes instability was causing large amount of illegal immigrants to enter the US. The US isn’t at war with VZ, unsure if anyone was even killed during the operation. Really don’t know what this could ever be compared to. On the rest of your post, about balance, guiding principles… that was partly the point I was making too. Edited January 4 by Sweet
Sweet Posted January 4 Posted January 4 (edited) 20 hours ago, RichardGibbons said: The answer is that the western world has been incredibly successful under the rules-based international order. It lead to unprecedented peace and prosperity for westerners, to the extent that westerners believe that peace and prosperity is the norm. Disrupting that order has the potential for chaos and really bad outcomes for westerners (wars, lower standards of living, reduction in freedoms, assassinations of leaders....) Risking that amazing prosperity for something that isn't that important is a terrible idea. And yeah, you may believe that's just handwaving, but I think one must recognize that increasing chaos in the world is a really bad strategy for the people who are massive winners in the existing political order. Maybe everything doesn't fall apart, but taking the risk when you're already way ahead is still a bad bet. It's roughly the same as Buffett's statement, paraphrased roughly as, "why the fuck would I play Russian roulette for any amount of money and any arbitrarily large number bullets when I'm already a multi-billionaire?" The Western world was a wildly successful and constantly at war until one side and one culture dominated. This liberal rules based order didn’t just emerge from talking, it emerged from hard power. I don’t disagree with the potential for a bad precedent and slippery slope, but can we stop pretending that Maduro was one of these guys who followed international rules? And if you haven’t noticed, that Western lead order has been crumbling for some time. Our values have been slipping, our culture being eroded. Give me post world war 2 political leaders who understood just how close liberal democracies came to an end, knows where our strength lies, and understands the compromises to our values it sometimes takes to survive. Because I don’t think anyone currently really gets it like an Eisenhower or Truman or Churchill. Edited January 4 by Sweet
cubsfan Posted January 4 Posted January 4 7 minutes ago, Sweet said: And if you haven’t noticed, that Western lead order has been crumbling for some time. Our values have been slipping, our culture being eroded. Give me a post world war 2 political leaders who understood just how close liberal democracies came to an end, knows where our strength lies, and the compromises to our values it sometimes takes to survive. Because I don’t think anyone currently really gets it like an Eisenhower or Truman or Churchill. That's right...liberalism is a disease that transforms great countries into soft & weak countries. You don't just "throw out" values and principles that have worked for ages - for the sake of transformations that the academics want.
dwy000 Posted January 4 Posted January 4 10 minutes ago, Sweet said: The Western world was a wildly successful and constantly at war until one side and one culture dominated. This liberal rules based order didn’t just emerge from talking, it emerged from hard power. I don’t disagree with the potential for a bad precedent and slippery slope, but can we stop pretending that Maduro was one of these guys who followed international rules? And if you haven’t noticed, that Western lead order has been crumbling for some time. Our values have been slipping, our culture being eroded. Give me post world war 2 political leaders who understood just how close liberal democracies came to an end, knows where our strength lies, and understands the compromises to our values it sometimes takes to survive. Because I don’t think anyone currently really gets it like an Eisenhower or Truman or Churchill. I've yet to hear anybody on either side argue that Maduro was anything other than an evil dictator (like probably a dozen other ones that exist in the world today). And his post didn't even have a mention of Maduro (or even Venezuela). The issue here is not whether dictators exist it is whether the actions taken were legal.
Sweet Posted January 4 Posted January 4 3 minutes ago, cubsfan said: That's right...liberalism is a disease that transforms great countries into soft & weak countries Yes, we can’t be soft and weak about certain things.
Sweet Posted January 4 Posted January 4 1 minute ago, dwy000 said: I've yet to hear anybody on either side argue that Maduro was anything other than an evil dictator (like probably a dozen other ones that exist in the world today). And his post didn't even have a mention of Maduro (or even Venezuela). The issue here is not whether dictators exist it is whether the actions taken were legal. This is the issue with modern liberals - is it ‘legal’. Not if it was right or wrong? Not if it is good or bad that Maduro gone? Nothing like this has happened in recent times, it’s not something we look for precedents - legal or otherwise.
dwy000 Posted January 4 Posted January 4 Just now, Sweet said: This is the issue with modern liberals - is it ‘legal’. Not if it was right or wrong? Not if it is good or bad that Maduro gone? Nothing like this has happened in recent times, it’s not something we look for precedents - legal or otherwise. Right or wrong depends entirely upon who youre asking. Its why the law exists. Its the entire basis for our western culture.
Spekulatius Posted January 4 Posted January 4 (edited) 17 hours ago, scorpioncapital said: Because Putin has nuclear weapons. Russia is by far the most dangerous country after North Korea on the planet, because here you have near-failed states run by mob-like crazy dictators - and with Earth destroying weapons. How do you remove them from power?? If you separate the head from the snake, it is probably not going to bite you any more. Do you think the leadership that remains in place would launch nuclear weapons to avenge a dead leader. they probably would bee happy to be rid of him, not because they are necessarily much better, but because he threatens everyone including them. These regimes are run on bribery and fear just like a mobsters. The reason it’s not done is because Putin is part of the right wing leader brotherhood. Edited January 4 by Spekulatius
Spekulatius Posted January 4 Posted January 4 49 minutes ago, Sweet said: I agree largely with your post with caveats. Rights abusers have less right, criminals go to jail, Maduro and his predecessor stole elections, stole the people of VZ freedom, wrecked the country and the economy. Worse, they trafficked drugs and the regimes instability was causing large amount of illegal immigrants to enter the US. The US isn’t at war with VZ, unsure if anyone was even killed during the operation. Really don’t know what this could ever be compared to. On the rest of your post, about balance, guiding principles… that was partly the point I was making too. So if any foreign nation would remove Trump in a special operation and capture him and his wife and throw them in a detention center (let’s say on a foreign diplomat trip etc) you do not think we would be at war with them? I think Maduro deserves to be removed but we have to be clear about what is done here. Also, one has to be really careful about the end result justifying the means. Thats a slippery slope that lead to many really bad outcomes before.
cubsfan Posted January 4 Posted January 4 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Sweet said: This is the issue with modern liberals - is it ‘legal’. Not if it was right or wrong? Not if it is good or bad that Maduro gone? Nothing like this has happened in recent times, it’s not something we look for precedents - legal or otherwise. A very similar episode happened with Osama bin Laden. The USA was NOT at war with Pakistan, who was in fact an ally. President Obama chose an act of war by invading Pakistan and murdering several civilians, along with Osama's family. No "permission" from the UN, Pakistan, etc, etc. But, as you point out, Obama was correctly hailed as a hero in this illegal action. Trump did the exact same thing. Edited January 4 by cubsfan
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