Leaving New York City

[Blugolds]

1 hour ago, Sweet said:

Lots of other countries have widespread gun ownership, but something about mass shootings, and murder rates in the USA that is sort of unique to Western countries.

 

Plenty of other countries with much higher murder rates than the US, but normally countries run by gangs.

 

I understand the pro-gun side, why should responsible owners give up their guns.  But I also think that if they are to keep their guns some sensible restrictions are going to be necessary.  Nobody with priors for serious crimes, or someone with certain types of mental illness, should ever own a gun.

 

There is bound to be some laws that a large majority can get behind.

 

Many other countries with widespread gun ownership also have better provisions for mental health issues. Finland/Switzerland/Norway etc. Look at how they live, they get many things "right" IMO that cant even get discussed in the US and wouldnt have a chance. They are different cultures and mental health overall in the pop is probably better I would imagine in general. (I have no facts to back that up) But looking at the overall happiest countries list, Finland is the reigning champ for half a decade at least and the other Nordic countries are right behind them. 

 

I think the problem as far as litigation is concerned is the same as the political divide now. There is no rational/reasonable common sense discussion looking for a solution. Anti-gun folks call everything a "high powered rifle" as if there were any "low" powered rifles. Everything is an "assault rifle, even though any semi automatic rifle fires just as fast as an AR. A Corolla and a Ferrari with the same engine will have the same top speed. 

 

Pro-gun folks say, drugs are also illegal and yet there are users on every street corner, if someone wants a firearm they will still get one. There are already provisions to guard against those with prior serious crimes from owning a firearm, they still get them. And ultimately, they worry that if they give an inch it will be the beginning of the gov slowly picking away more and more with added restrictions. I think thats the big one, everyone knows that the gov starts small, and then gradually over the years they want more control etc. We see it in many different areas that they have their fingers in. 

 

I also think/I believe polls show, that the avg gun owner DOES support increased regulation. Hell I have a gun safe full of firearms, including "assault rifles" and I dont care what you want to make me do to get one. Doesn't bother me, it wont be worse than hoops you have to jump through to obtain/purchase a suppressor. Backgrounds, cool off periods, fine, doesnt bother me. But I honestly dont think it will help, but if it would make people feel better that SOMETHING is being done, I welcome it. The issue is that when these shooting continue to happen, they will want to take the next step, and the next step, and the next step. 

 

I dont have the answer, but I see both sides, and I think the majority of people are for a reasonable/rational attempt/discussion. As with many things, the extreme viewpoints, with neither side willing to give an inch creates a stalemate and nothing gets done. No real desire to reach a compromise and both sides blaming the other. And here we are. 

 

 

[cubsfan]

^^^ great post. Chicago has the toughest gun ownership laws in the USA, yet it’s the shooting capital of America. I hate guns, don’t own one, but if I moved back to Chicago, I’d sure as shit buy one. The Chicago politicians scream for more restrictions, yet when they catch someone, they take the gun and let ‘em go, even if they’re a felon. So now they want to keep the law abiding from protecting themselves…

 

 

[cubsfan]

Also , lost in a lot of the media attention: 3% of the murders are due to rifles/assault weapons, so that doesn’t buy you much. Most everything is handguns. 
 

And school shootings are way less than 100 deaths per year - of the 50,000 fatalities from guns. 
 

 

[rkbabang]

You have to be careful with gun statistics, because they love to lump in suicides with "gun deaths".  Which makes places where guns are more readily available look worse in the "gun deaths" statistics, because in heavy gun controlled cities and states people tend to find other ways to off themselves.   The focus on crime in SF right now is probably due to the stabbing of the Cash App founder Bob Lee a few days ago.  

 

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2023-04-06/i-just-lost-my-best-friend-friends-family-mourn-cash-app-founder-after-fatal-stabbing-in-san-francisco

 

I agree with @Blugolds11 above where he says "they will want to take the next step, and the next step, and the next step", which is why this is my position on the matter:

 

 

[rkbabang]

6 minutes ago, cubsfan said:

Also , lost in a lot of the media attention: 3% of the murders are due to rifles/assault weapons, so that doesn’t buy you much. Most everything is handguns. 
 

And school shootings are way less than 100 deaths per year - of the 50,000 fatalities from guns. 
 

 

 

You are lumping in suicides in that number.  I'm not afraid of suicide when I'm walking the streets.

 

[cubsfan]

Correct, suicides are over 50% of gun deaths. But deaths from school shootings & mass shootings is pretty small.

[rkbabang]

2 minutes ago, cubsfan said:

Correct, suicides are over 50% of gun deaths. But deaths from school shootings & mass shootings is pretty small.

 

 

Exactly.  And "Assault Riffles" is a red herring.  In many years the murders from hammers exceed the number of murders from riffles of all types.

 

[gfp]

Personally I don't understand the focus on fatalities.  I am not worried about being murdered, I am worried about being shot.  My wife worries about me getting murdered.

 

It never made much sense to me when cities tout a falling homicide rate when shootings and violent crimes involving guns are way up in the next statistic over.  Like we are celebrating that the kids shooting the guns are getting less precise in their aim?

Edited April 12, 2023 by gfp

[Castanza]

 

Here is your 2020 mass shooters club. Majority.....gang related. 

 

To ban guns because the criminals use them is to tell the law-abiding that their rights and liberties depend not on their own conduct, but on the conduct of the guilty and lawless. 

 

FBI estimates that 500k-1.5m people use firearms to defend themselves every year in the US. 

Edited April 12, 2023 by Castanza

[cubsfan]

Of course, a huge problem is the one no leader wants to talk about: at least in Chicago, it’s black on black crime. 95% of those murders are black on black - and include many, many children. It’s not a gun problem or a racist problem- it’s a family problem. Homes with no fathers. But if you talk about, you get branded a racist. Murder rates won’t go down until you attack that issue - and there is no political courage to do so in this country.

[Spekulatius]

@Gregmal no disagreement here. SF is a dumpster fire and in but in a way it's is relative. SF used to be a safe city - heck I even went out with my wife in Tenderloin in the evening a few times about 20 years ago. Do this now and you might get mugged or worse. I did post a couple of years ago about a story in NBC where and elderly lady ( a friend of my inlaws was stabbed by a loonie for no good reason in bright daylight.

Had friends who were travelling and got their rental car smashed and robbed at daytime in a busy shopping center parking lot in the North Bay area (Rohnert Park). The police pretty much told them that they don't pursue these property crimes any more. At some point, people are going to wake up and elected somebody who actually does something. SF is already pretty close. Right now, they still have boiling frog syndrome.

Edited April 12, 2023 by Spekulatius

[Castanza]

3 minutes ago, cubsfan said:

Of course, a huge problem is the one no leader wants to talk about: at least in Chicago, it’s black on black crime. 95% of those murders are black on black - and include many, many children. It’s not a gun problem or a racist problem- it’s a family problem. Homes with no fathers. But if you talk about, you get branded a racist. Murder rates won’t go down until you attack that issue - and there is no political courage to do so in this country.

 

Nobody wants to talk about immigration as well. I'm sorry, but when you import hundreds of thousands of people from differing cultures (many 3rd world countries) every year you're going to have problems. Notice how Canada just came to an agreement to "send back" illegal immigrants to the US. Most of the countries that have low gun violence and like 98% the same in regards to demographics across race, religion, cultural background. The US is also the only 1st world nation to border a country like Mexico and subsequently the rest of SA. Ban guns in the US and they will flood into this country through the black market. 

 

At the end of the day politicians will do what they do best. Fuck everything up. 

 

 

 

 

[Castanza]

14 minutes ago, Spekulatius said:

@Gregmal no disagreement here. SF is a dumpster fire and in but in a way it's is relative. SF used to be a safe city - heck I even went out with my wife in Tenderloin in the evening a few times about 20 years ago. Do this now and you might get mugged or worse. I did post a couple of years ago about a story in NBC where and elderly lady ( a friend of my inlaws was stabbed by a loonie for no good reason in bright daylight.

Had friends who were travelling and got their rental car smashed and robbed on daytime in a busy shopping center parking lot in the North Bay area (Rohnert Park). The police pretty much told them that they don't pursue these property crimes any more. At some point, people are going to wake up and elected somebody who actually does something. SF is already pretty close. Right now, they still have boiling frog syndrome.

 

You might find this YT channel interesting. Basically a citizen journalist but just travels around the country and reports on what is seen. Some interviews etc. Equally critical of all areas. 

 

https://www.youtube.com/@NickJohnson/playlists

 

 

The fact that people live like this in the US is incredibly sad. How it got this bad is a crime in and of itself. 

Edited April 12, 2023 by Castanza

[mcliu]

The crime/violence might also have something to do with the rampant drug usage. 

The US also has one of the highest incarceration rates in the world.

 

This seems to suggest there's more fundamental/underlying issues with American society than just policing.

 

[mcliu]

13 minutes ago, Castanza said:

The fact that people live like this in the US is incredibly sad. How it got this bad is a crime in and of itself. 

Real tragic. But there are also influential people trying to continue the policies that led to this.

It's a similar situation in East Hastings part of Vancouver. Recently, the new Mayor/Premier trying to clean up the area, and has been labelled "genocidal" by the previous mayor. Lots of protestors actively trying to stop the "decampment". 

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/welcome-to-cruel-vancouver-mayor-decampment

[rkbabang]

Best tweet I've seen on the SF Whole Foods closing:

 

"BREAKING: San Francisco leaders are expressing concern that Whole Foods' exit from the city as a result of 'high theft' and 'hostile transgender customers' will make it extremely difficult for residents to steal healthy food."

 

https://twitter.com/amuse/status/1645555480704475138?s=20

 

[Castanza]

1 hour ago, mcliu said:

Real tragic. But there are also influential people trying to continue the policies that led to this.

It's a similar situation in East Hastings part of Vancouver. Recently, the new Mayor/Premier trying to clean up the area, and has been labelled "genocidal" by the previous mayor. Lots of protestors actively trying to stop the "decampment". 

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/welcome-to-cruel-vancouver-mayor-decampment

 

Strange world to live in. Maybe it's my walnut sized brain but I can't help but see how Post Modern thought has almost completely destroyed the trajectory of the "Western World". Countries and empires don't survive without agreed upon thought, honest discourse, rational thought and some objective truth (outside of religion). It's truly bizarro world when you can look at any news feed and see more nonsense than a South Park episode. I've come to the conclusion that most of these issues are impossible to solve. Our leadership hasn't been good or honest in decades. Politicians are more dishonest and uninformed than ever. There is far too much polarity among individuals. Blame is no longer directed towards the individual. Personal responsibility has gone completely out the window. 

 

The loudest individuals in society are currently the Rich who are trying to preserve their status. The Lazy who are trying to elevate theirs through theft. The Ignorant Intellectuals who blindly follow whatever nonsense the two former groups sell them. 

 

My personal solution. Direct my full attention to my family, friends and local community. At some point, this stuff will either implode or self correct. Neither I have any control over. 

Edited April 12, 2023 by Castanza

[Gregmal]

The problem in a bigger context for the US and much of Western society is that when life gets to a certain level and relatively speaking, peak quality, we begin making up problems or entertaining ourselves with bogus ones. Which is what we have now. Most of our “serious” political issues are a total joke.

[bizaro86]

1 hour ago, Castanza said:

 

Ban guns in the US and they will flood into this country through the black market. 

 

 

The US is a huge exporter of black market guns. The vast majority of the guns the cartels are using in Mexico come from the USA. Mexico has extremely restrictive gun laws, but the cartels smuggle guns across the border.

 

See: https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2022/02/stopping-toxic-flow-of-gun-traffic-from-u-s-to-mexico/

[Castanza]

5 minutes ago, bizaro86 said:

 

The US is a huge exporter of black market guns. The vast majority of the guns the cartels are using in Mexico come from the USA. Mexico has extremely restrictive gun laws, but the cartels smuggle guns across the border.

 

See: https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2022/02/stopping-toxic-flow-of-gun-traffic-from-u-s-to-mexico/

Yes I am aware of this but it is a silly talking point. It’s a correlation of convenience. Ban production in the US and the gun problems go away? Wrong. They will move to another part of the world where criminals will simply shift their supply lines. Same reason the “war on drugs” has never worked.
 

I wish guns didn’t exist. But they do and they aren’t going away. You can 3D print a half dozen very reliable firearms. You can buy machining tools and make a Glock clone with little effort.  

[Parsad]

2 hours ago, cubsfan said:

Also , lost in a lot of the media attention: 3% of the murders are due to rifles/assault weapons, so that doesn’t buy you much. Most everything is handguns. 
 

And school shootings are way less than 100 deaths per year - of the 50,000 fatalities from guns. 
 

 

 

Even one death at school is a problem.  Cheers!

[Castanza]

2 minutes ago, Parsad said:

 

Even one death at school is a problem.  Cheers!

Ban alcohol 

 

Cheers!

[Castanza]

29 minutes ago, Gregmal said:

The problem in a bigger context for the US and much of Western society is that when life gets to a certain level and relatively speaking, peak quality, we begin making up problems or entertaining ourselves with bogus ones. Which is what we have now. Most of our “serious” political issues are a total joke.

Yup, people bitch and moan about so much in the US. Anti work, reparations etc. it’s hilarious. I bet most of these troglodytes don’t know that there are more slaves globally today than any point in history. 40 million. Should send them over to work in the Pakistani brick fields for a day. 

[Parsad]

1 hour ago, mcliu said:

Real tragic. But there are also influential people trying to continue the policies that led to this.

It's a similar situation in East Hastings part of Vancouver. Recently, the new Mayor/Premier trying to clean up the area, and has been labelled "genocidal" by the previous mayor. Lots of protestors actively trying to stop the "decampment". 

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/welcome-to-cruel-vancouver-mayor-decampment

 

The irony is that the Premier (equivalent to Governor) of British Columbia, who is a hard left politician, supported the decampment and clearing out of the tent cities.  Of the 100 or so tents removed, only 18 people took up the city's offer for housing.  The former mayor is just trying to get his job back!  Cheers!

[Parsad]

2 hours ago, Castanza said:

 

Nobody wants to talk about immigration as well. I'm sorry, but when you import hundreds of thousands of people from differing cultures (many 3rd world countries) every year you're going to have problems. Notice how Canada just came to an agreement to "send back" illegal immigrants to the US. Most of the countries that have low gun violence and like 98% the same in regards to demographics across race, religion, cultural background. The US is also the only 1st world nation to border a country like Mexico and subsequently the rest of SA. Ban guns in the US and they will flood into this country through the black market. 

 

At the end of the day politicians will do what they do best. Fuck everything up. 

 

 

 

 

 

Canada is presently taking in 1M immigrants a year for a country that only has 38M people altogether.  We don't have the same problem with mass shootings or gun fatalities here even though gun ownership is pretty high.  Immigration is just an excuse for gun violence in the U.S. because of the sheer amount of guns per capita the U.S. owns.  The numbers are just stupid!  I do agree though that prosecution of those that are involved with gun-related criminal activities is also lax in the U.S.  Cheers!

 

https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/26/world/us-gun-culture-world-comparison-intl-cmd/index.html