What’s a good car choice for the value investor?

[BPCAP]

What’s a good car choice for the value investor?

Not looking for the car equivalent of a cigar butt stock.

Looking for value, not cheap. Obviously looking used. Appreciate quality.

 

Thanks for the help!

[sarganaga]

KIA Sorrento. Drive about 30,000 miles annually. On my third. Great ride, dependable, CHEAP.

[Lance]

Hyundai Equus.  Discontinued.  A poor man’s Audi A8, S Class, 750, etc.

 

Thanks

Lance

[KJP]

What’s a good car choice for the value investor?

Not looking for the car equivalent of a cigar butt stock.

Looking for value, not cheap. Obviously looking used. Appreciate quality.

 

Thanks for the help!

 

Size? What are you going to do with it, e.g., 50-mile daily highway commute, zipping around town on the weekends, bringing a family of seven camping? 

[muscleman]

whats your budget and intended purpose of the vehicle? Are you able to do maintainence yourself?

[CGJB]

Sir John Templeton was driving a Kia Opirus in the years before his passing. The Oprius was marketed as the Kia Amanti in the US. It's now called the Cadenza.

 

https://money.cnn.com/2008/11/27/news/newsmakers/john_templeton.fortune/index.htm

 

"Each morning, he drove his four-door Kia Opirus - which he told me had the same qualities as a high-end German luxury car but was a good deal cheaper - a few blocks down to his office, where he sat on a butterfly-upholstered couch to review proposals and take notes."

 

 

[no_free_lunch]

Buy Toyota for the reliability and reasonable price.  You will pay a small premium but it should make up for it over the long haul.  The other manufacturers, kia/hyundai in particular, are catching up but I am not convinced they are there yet.  You pick the model.

 

These things will do 200k miles no problem, if you can just do the basic maintenance.

[wondering]

Jim Kenize, an automotive journalist, once wrote the most sensible car purchase would be buy a 3-4 year old Buick - drive it into the ground, and repeat.

 

Full disclosure - that is exactly what I did.  So far it has worked out for me.

 

PS, I don't know if this advice is still applicable, since if I am not mistaken, GM is discontinuing the Buick line.(Perhaps parts will be more difficult to get - I am just guessing)

 

PPS, I also agree with the cars mentioned above

[Spekulatius]

Since we moved to the NE, I bought a basic model Subaru Forester new. We paid $25k. It has been a great ride. Used cars arn’t  as good as a deal relative to new cars as they used to be before the GFC. For Subaru’s, you can do better buying new, imo.

[Gregmal]

I'd echo Subaru's and also add Mazda. Both are totally underrated, high quality yet affordable cars that dont get talked about enough.

 

 

[muscleman]

I'd echo Subaru's and also add Mazda. Both are totally underrated, high quality yet affordable cars that dont get talked about enough.

 

LOL Subaru is known for cheap quality interior even for its highest end models. Its boxer engine is also an outdated gas guzzler

[LC]

Toyota or Honda.

 

Look at what the Uber/lyft drivers use.

[Orchard]

If you want a particularly good deal you would scour a marketplace such as Craigslist when in need of a new used car. Unlike most people you wouldn't anchor yourself to a given brand or model. Instead you would look for what the best deal would be at that particular time. Sometimes people are forced to move and sell their cars quickly and that would be your opportunity.

[Gregmal]

Toyota or Honda.

 

Look at what the Uber/lyft drivers use.

 

To truly answer the question, we can likely deduce the average value investor is not an Uber driver but rather a white collar worker who earns a reasonable amount more than the Uber/lyft driver. Therefor, the answer is Lexus and Acura’s.

[Guest longinvestor]

If you want a particularly good deal you would scour a marketplace such as Craigslist when in need of a new used car. Unlike most people you wouldn't anchor yourself to a given brand or model. Instead you would look for what the best deal would be at that particular time. Sometimes people are forced to move and sell their cars quickly and that would be your opportunity.

+1

 

We’re at the cusp of / in for a giant buyer’s market. Especially for used cars. I don’t have the numbers in hand but there’s been reportedly a disproportionately larger  number of leases and all those cars are entering the used car market! Not being anchored to a brand could be a great attitude to have.

[Spekulatius]

If you want a particularly good deal you would scour a marketplace such as Craigslist when in need of a new used car. Unlike most people you wouldn't anchor yourself to a given brand or model. Instead you would look for what the best deal would be at that particular time. Sometimes people are forced to move and sell their cars quickly and that would be your opportunity.

 

I have bought (and sold) cars as well as a motorcycle on Craigslist, but you really have to be careful there. There are a lot of crooks and tire kickers there. I almost look at the person who is going to buy or sell more so than at the vehicle before ai buy. If the person looks shady, I would walk away no matter what the deal with the vehicle is.

[Sullivcd]

We have a leaf for getting around town and I recommend to everyone. I got it a year old with 500 miles for 10k. I've had it for 2 years now and only maintenance is a tire that caught a nail. For longer distance we have a 2018 f150 and it has been great. Also would look at an older v6 4runner or Lexus SUV. Can't go wrong with a manual civic or accord either.

[muscleman]

Toyota or Honda.

 

Look at what the Uber/lyft drivers use.

 

To truly answer the question, we can likely deduce the average value investor is not an Uber driver but rather a white collar worker who earns a reasonable amount more than the Uber/lyft driver. Therefor, the answer is Lexus and Acura’s.

 

Toyota still hasn’t fixed the automatic acceleration problem, and even in 2019 there were cases when the driver pressed the brake and the car accelerated out of control. Toyota==Russian Rullette.

[clutch]

If you could do basic maintenance yourself, then a well-maintained, low mileage Porsche Boxster / Cayman / 911 below $30k. There is a good chance that you'd be able to sell it for about the same or even at a higher price in the future.

[LC]

Toyota or Honda.

 

Look at what the Uber/lyft drivers use.

 

To truly answer the question, we can likely deduce the average value investor is not an Uber driver but rather a white collar worker who earns a reasonable amount more than the Uber/lyft driver. Therefor, the answer is Lexus and Acura’s.

 

Toyota still hasn’t fixed the automatic acceleration problem, and even in 2019 there were cases when the driver pressed the brake and the car accelerated out of control. Toyota==Russian Rullette.

Damn I was not aware. Good advice would be make sure to check the recalls for your VINs and even not the full recalls but also the service bulletins. Also check some car owner forums. My 2013 CRV hasn’t given any problems (knock on wood), bought it 3 years used with 20k miles. So there some anecdotal data if at all helpful.

[Gilp]

If you could do basic maintenance yourself, then a well-maintained, low mileage Porsche Boxster / Cayman / 911 below $30k. There is a good chance that you'd be able to sell it for about the same or even at a higher price in the future.

 

"They are endless money pits" - Scotty Kilmer

 

 

If you want reliable, no-brainer cars and you like the design, I would go with Toyota.

Most of the Hondas are great as well.

 

Recent Mazdas are great value for money, reliable almost as the Toyotas, have very nice design(I love them).

 

Also consider Hyundai/Kia - very good value/features etc..

 

If you are willing to spend more or want more premuim brands, check out Lexus/Acura/Genesis. Especially Genesis can be a great value second hand.

 

Avoid anything German, specially premium German(Mercedes/BMW/Audi), unless you really like them.

 

Also better avoid anything with CVT or Dual Clutch transmissions. They tend to have many problmes and are expensive to repair.

 

Do you have any specific models in mind? What is your budget? Willing to buy second hand?

Size/shape(passenger/SUV?).

 

[KJP]

 

If you are willing to spend more or want more premuim brands, check out Lexus/Acura/Genesis. Especially Genesis can be a great value second hand.

 

Avoid anything German, specially premium German(Mercedes/BMW/Audi), unless you really like them.

 

 

I'm going to push back on this a bit.  You have to understand the maintenance costs and what you're going to do with the car.  If you're driving 25k miles per year, I would hesitate to buy Mercedes/Audi/BMW.  But if you drive 7.5 - 10k miles per year, that's a different story.  Go sit in an A4 with a medium or above trim versus, say, a TLX.  I think there's no comparison. 

 

If you're willing to buy used you can get a 4 or 5 year old A4 with low mileage and a good maintenance history for well under $20k.  I'd take that over a TLX or Lexus.  Just look carefully at (i) the maintenance history (Carfax or owner records if you're buying in a private sale), and (ii) the interior.  You want to see regular maintenance at Audi dealers and a spotless interior.  The best deal will likely be on Craigslist from a car lover to kept the interior spotless and kept meticulous maintenance records.  Buy that one over the generic 3-year old car off lease from Staten/Long Island.

 

The G70-G90s are good looking cars (better styling than the prior Hyundai Genesis models), but I'd wait a few years to get some history on them and buy them used.

[Castanza]

Anytime I see an old guy driving an early 2000's Corolla or Camry I assume they're pocket millionaires.

 

I have had luck with Mazda, Honda and Toyota.

 

Drove a 99 Honda civic to 300k miles (no major issues).

 

2007 Mazda 3 to 240k before I sold it (had an emissions leak near the manifold towards the end).

 

I'm assuming you want something a bit nicer though. Mazda has really nice interiors for the non-luxury segment. I test drove a 2017 Mazda 6 top trim and it was nice. Not Audi or BMW nice, but it was much better than Subaru and Honda. Even better than most Acuras and VWs in my opinion.

 

If you're looking for a truck then I would suggest new. The used prices are ridiculous for what you get. When I was in the market there were used 2008-2010 Tacomas with over 100k miles on them still selling for 16-18k. Was absolutely insane.

[SharperDingaan]

Given that you're a value investor - and cheaper than sin!

Might I recommend a humble bicycle ..... with a detachable motor on the back, for the hills !!

Buy vintage, buy quality, and it could well even appreciate over time.

 

No gas or insurance, maintenance is already paid for.

And all that exercise is going to ensure that you live a lot longer - and cashing many more pension cheques.

... making the whole thing a positive cash flow, positive NPV choice  ;D

 

SD

 

[BPCAP]

Thanks everyone for the advice.

 

Seems to confirm some ideas; happily there seems to be multiple choices and be approximately right.