Iran - Israel - Gaza Conflict

[Gregmal]

12 minutes ago, John Hjorth said:

 

Greg [ @Gregmal ],

 

Are you above here [as quoted above] referring to the military industrial complex?, or what else?

The amount of money and power available to the incestuous complex during times of “war” is too attractive to them. The complex includes military industrial but they’re just a piece of it. The powers that be love war. Look at how much freedom some were willing to give away to the government because of a bad flu strain a few years ago! Telling people they are in danger and in need of protection is the easiest snake oil to sell. 

[Xerxes]

47 minutes ago, cubsfan said:

The hallmark of a true sociopath 

Not much different than Netanyahu himself. Who just happened to be democratically elected. So he gets a pass and Westerner are required to bend-knee and repeat and carry his words like gospel. 
 

Looks like he is got a new lease on his current job, and manage to get aid unblocked, divert attention from Gaza. 
 

Truth political survivor. 
 

I personally am an admirer of Moshe Dayan. The Israeli defence minister with the eye patch. Bygone era. That is when men were men. And soldiers were true soldiers. But that’s just me.  
 

Nowadays, people going around on twitter making meme on how their “truth” is more true than other side. Politicians just lie through their teeth. 
 

Anyways, enough of me talking in this thread. None of this is investment related. 

[Ulti]

1 hour ago, Xerxes said:

I personally am an admirer of Moshe Dayan. The Israeli defence minister with the eye patch.

+1

[cubsfan]

3 hours ago, Xerxes said:

Not much different than Netanyahu himself.  So he gets a pass and Westerner are required to bend-knee and repeat and carry his words like gospel. 

 

Netanyahu is definitely a man made for this time, to save Israel.  Hamas is NO different than ISIS, Al Qaeda or the KKK. If Bebe can destroy Hamas, then the Palestinians will ask themselves how stupid they were to put their future into the hands of a terrorist government. What fools.

 

And the world will be grateful to Netanyahu, regardless if he is re-elected or not.

[John Hjorth]

What a disaster.

 

Pretty much everyone in charge of staying cool and to think twice based on reason, and that have that obligation to their own citizens, have lost about all natural sense and reason.

 

What a disgraceful chapter in the history of human mankind. It's soo embarrassing.

[Xerxes]

55 minutes ago, cubsfan said:

 

Netanyahu is definitely a man made for this time, to save Israel.  Hamas is NO different than ISIS, Al Qaeda or the KKK. If Bebe can destroy Hamas, then the Palestinians will ask themselves how stupid they were to put their future into the hands of a terrorist government. What fools.

 

And the world will be grateful to Netanyahu, regardless if he is re-elected or not.

That is fair. Cannot argue with the logic that one needs a sociopath brute to beat the other guy’ sociopath brute. 
 

I don’t have a problem with that logic. Though it aches my body. 
 

As long we understand we are not confusing him with some modern version of FDR, Woodrow Wilson or Sir Winston. Men with vision of not only today but the day after. 
 

Have a nice weekend 

[Xerxes]

46 minutes ago, John Hjorth said:

What a disaster.

 

Pretty much everyone in charge of staying cool and to think twice based on reason, and that have that obligation to their own citizens, have lost about all natural sense and reason.

 

What a disgraceful chapter in the history of human mankind. It's soo embarrassing.

Couldn’t agree more. That said this happens all over the world.
 

But for some reason this Israeli-Palestinian issue gets a lot of oxygen, from both sides and their unconditional-unbending-supporters talking their pre-established talking points. 
 

A tragedy but not the only one in the world.   
 

I think I am going to start a thread about the end-game of Azerbaijani and Armenian. There were three wars in the past 30 years, and just like the three Punic Wars each shorter than the one before. 
 

The end results is exodus of Armenian from their historical lands, which was part of formal post-Soviet Azerbaijan territory.

 

One of the many frozen conflict that came because Soviet Union disintegrated so fast. 

 

 

[Sweet]

4 hours ago, Gregmal said:

The amount of money and power available to the incestuous complex during times of “war” is too attractive to them. The complex includes military industrial but they’re just a piece of it. The powers that be love war. Look at how much freedom some were willing to give away to the government because of a bad flu strain a few years ago! Telling people they are in danger and in need of protection is the easiest snake oil to sell. 

Some of this is of course true but I also think some of it verges on conspiracy theory as well.  I don’t think there is some plot to hand more control to government, either with the Ukraine or Israel war.

[Gregmal]

50 minutes ago, Sweet said:

Some of this is of course true but I also think some of it verges on conspiracy theory as well.  I don’t think there is some plot to hand more control to government, either with the Ukraine or Israel war.

Sure there is. Look at all the spending packages being promoted as immediate and urgent. And all the other stuff they’re jamming in. War is always a great excuse to move money around 

[Sweet]

18 minutes ago, Gregmal said:

Sure there is. Look at all the spending packages being promoted as immediate and urgent. And all the other stuff they’re jamming in. War is always a great excuse to move money around 

War is expensive.  
 

The package is immediate and urgent, it perhaps doesn’t feel that way in the US, but it’s very different in Ukraine.

 

I know many Americans don’t give a crap about Ukraine and that Russia threatening to overrun their country.  The benefits to America from a defeated Russia aren’t immediately obvious either.
 

In recent history America stood for something, it exported its values and beliefs to other countries, helped defend them and along the way made friends and became most powerful country in the world.  

 

That sphere of influence are a buffer to hostile nations.  If America had withdrew from WW2 or the Cold War, its friends could have been overrun and America would have been less prosperous, more isolated and less secure.

 

Is America secure if China and Russia team up whilst they simultaneously chip away at Americas friends?  
 

Of course not.

 

That sphere of influence that America has in Europe and Asian contributes massively to its security.  It’s in the best interest of the US and the West generally to ensure Ukraine survives.

 

Trump was right about European nations.  They don’t pay enough to their own defence, they aren’t grateful for US assistance, and they were beholden to Russian energy.  I remember he got shit for this but he nailed it.  Europeans know the value of American support now:

 

 

[lnofeisone]

12 hours ago, whatstheofficerproblem said:

https://www.theverge.com/2024/4/17/24133700/google-fires-28-employees-protest-israel-cloud-contract

 

Why did Google fire them, it shouldn't have. In fact, the employees must have willfully resigned as a sign of protest.

 

Sincerely,

All undergrad & grad students.

There is more to this story than being published. 

[SharperDingaan]

On 4/19/2024 at 5:56 PM, Gregmal said:

Sure there is. Look at all the spending packages being promoted as immediate and urgent. And all the other stuff they’re jamming in. War is always a great excuse to move money around 

 

The down-side to this is that senior officials have begun talking about a 'pre-war' stage; and war occurs in Europe about every 70+ years (i.e: overdue). 2%+ spending targets have now become priorities (Russia/Trump effect). And seem to be getting met through ramped up new weapons production (shells, drones, rockets, etc.), logistics rotating through existing hot zones for 'practice', and a build-up of mass deployable 'inventory' outside of domestic budget controls (US/Ukraine), etc. Alongside quiet re-militarisation of Germany and Japan.

 

Not a bad thing; but if you want to get that European travel in .... do it sooner rather than later.

 

SD 

Edited April 21 by SharperDingaan

[Spekulatius]

1 hour ago, SharperDingaan said:

Not a bad thing; but if you want to get that European travel in .... do it sooner rather than later.

I booked a vacation during Gulf War I. It was very cheap.

 

So, if you are cheap, you could get better airfare prices if this escalates. In any case, the Gaza Strip is not in Europe, so it’s not going to affect European travel directly. Flights to Israel, or travel from Europe to India or Gulf States is a different story.

[Xerxes]

2 hours ago, SharperDingaan said:

Not a bad thing; but if you want to get that European travel in .... do it sooner rather than later.

 

SD 

That is a little bit overdramatic.
 

Europe is fine for vacationing. All the way to Poland.
 

My biggest regret is not being

able to see St Petersburg and Moscow and do the transiberian train.  
 

That is a goner for the next 10-15 years 

[SharperDingaan]

Quite agree! for the next few years Europe is fine for vacation.

But as pointed out, if you want to do the more 'exotic' stuff (Trans Siberian, Orient Express, etc.); get it done, or risk losing the opportunity - which may not come round again during your remaining go-go/slow-go years. I have been waiting for years to finish travelling overland from London to Capetown via the old 'Red Route'; but so long as the Sudan conflict continues - one has to overfly the Sahara crossing, and there is no overland travel to Abu Simbel from the Ethiopian highlands (source of the Nile) via the desert.

 

When we can visit anytime, we take it for granted; and assume the destination will always be there, and/or look the same. We just recognise that the world is changing, and it wouldn't hurt to be a lot more appreciative of our current abilities.

 

SD      

 

[Dinar]

1 hour ago, Xerxes said:

That is a little bit overdramatic.
 

Europe is fine for vacationing. All the way to Poland.
 

My biggest regret is not being

able to see St Petersburg and Moscow and do the transiberian train.  
 

That is a goner for the next 10-15 years 

I am with you.  I wanted to do this during the world cup in 2018, but my wife would not let me (we had a 2 year old and she was pregnant - she could not go, while she thought I'd come back with a girlfriend from there...)

 

The country in incredibly beautiful both nature wise and architecture wise, while we are on the subject of regrets, I'd add Kiev, Palmyra & Damascus.  I cannot wait for regime change in Iran - I would love to visit Isfahan, Shiraz, Persepolis, et all.

 

 

[Luca]

21 hours ago, Sweet said:

War is expensive.  
 

The package is immediate and urgent, it perhaps doesn’t feel that way in the US, but it’s very different in Ukraine.

 

I know many Americans don’t give a crap about Ukraine and that Russia threatening to overrun their country.  The benefits to America from a defeated Russia aren’t immediately obvious either.
 

In recent history America stood for something, it exported its values and beliefs to other countries, helped defend them and along the way made friends and became most powerful country in the world.  

 

That sphere of influence are a buffer to hostile nations.  If America had withdrew from WW2 or the Cold War, its friends could have been overrun and America would have been less prosperous, more isolated and less secure.

 

Is America secure if China and Russia team up whilst they simultaneously chip away at Americas friends?  
 

Of course not.

 

That sphere of influence that America has in Europe and Asian contributes massively to its security.  It’s in the best interest of the US and the West generally to ensure Ukraine survives.

 

Trump was right about European nations.  They don’t pay enough to their own defence, they aren’t grateful for US assistance, and they were beholden to Russian energy.  I remember he got shit for this but he nailed it.  Europeans know the value of American support now:

 

 

North Stream never was a problem for Germany, putin would still deliver if the german government wouldn't act against their own interest with joining the US in supporting the war against Russia. 

 

We will also build out our own defenses (see the 100b+ packages etc) because the US is becoming less reliable with trump and independency is preferable. 

 

Its not even preferrable for Europe to get closer to the US than to russia and china, that's preferrable for the US but europe would do better with a EURASIA axis then a position with the US. 

 

I have said before, Blinken said it himself, they happily sells us the expensive "freedom gas"

 

 

Edited April 20 by Luca

[Luca]

22 hours ago, Sweet said:

That sphere of influence are a buffer to hostile nations.  If America had withdrew from WW2 or the Cold War, its friends could have been overrun and America would have been less prosperous, more isolated and less secure.

A "buffer" that is 10000km away?? 

 

Understandable that russia gets uneasy with those kind of statements, the US will find a reason to invade and fight anyone that doesn't adhere to US interests. 

 

22 hours ago, Sweet said:

Is America secure if China and Russia team up whilst they simultaneously chip away at Americas friends?  
 

Of course not.

In which world is a war between the US and China/Russia realistic? The only reason ukraine is relatively peaceful is because they have no nukes, otherwise we would have had tactical nuclear warfare a long time ago, or just a MAD situation, which is how it will always be between nuclear powers. 

 

Who cares about those tiny regions close to the border of ukraine? There are millions of other problems where people are suffering and the US could throw money at to help them but of course ukraine now is of special interest because this is a perfect proxy war to weaken russia and damage europe, driving them closer to US than what we planned before, closer relations to russia. 

22 hours ago, Sweet said:

Trump was right about European nations.  They don’t pay enough to their own defence, they aren’t grateful for US assistance, and they were beholden to Russian energy.  I remember he got shit for this but he nailed it.  Europeans know the value of American support now:

We decided for this dependence ourselves and it would have been fine if we would have acted rational. The US bombed north stream away and that is all we need why the US is not an ally. 

[Sweet]

42 minutes ago, Luca said:

North Stream never was a problem for Germany, putin would still deliver if the german government wouldn't act against their own interest with joining the US in supporting the war against Russia. 

 

We will also build out our own defenses (see the 100b+ packages etc) because the US is becoming less reliable with trump and independency is preferable. 

 

Its not even preferrable for Europe to get closer to the US than to russia and china, that's preferrable for the US but europe would do better with a EURASIA axis then a position with the US. 

 

I have said before, Blinken said it himself, they happily sells us the expensive "freedom gas"

 

 

I’m European Luca, and I find some of your beliefs astonishing.

 

Your view that we should be closer to Russia and China is fringe and that’s a charitable interpretation.  I don’t know anybody else, especially after the invasion of Ukraine, who thinks we would be better off closer to Russia.

Many European countries have not been meeting their 2% defence spending commitment for a long time.  Our security has been subsidised by the US for decades.  We should have been more independent militarily decades ago.  We need to get real.
 

And instead of thanking Americans from saving Eastern Europe from Russian domination and subsidising our security we get ungrateful comments like yours?  Are you serious with that crap?

 

Trump and Blinken are also right on trade.  By trading with nations which are our adversaries we are helping them get strong and then they use that to undermine our values and way of life.  No thank you. 
 

Edited April 20 by Sweet

[Sweet]

19 minutes ago, Luca said:

A "buffer" that is 10000km away?? 

 

Understandable that russia gets uneasy with those kind of statements, the US will find a reason to invade and fight anyone that doesn't adhere to US interests. 

 

In which world is a war between the US and China/Russia realistic? The only reason ukraine is relatively peaceful is because they have no nukes, otherwise we would have had tactical nuclear warfare a long time ago, or just a MAD situation, which is how it will always be between nuclear powers. 

 

Who cares about those tiny regions close to the border of ukraine? There are millions of other problems where people are suffering and the US could throw money at to help them but of course ukraine now is of special interest because this is a perfect proxy war to weaken russia and damage europe, driving them closer to US than what we planned before, closer relations to russia. 

We decided for this dependence ourselves and it would have been fine if we would have acted rational. The US bombed north stream away and that is all we need why the US is not an ally. 

Yes Luca, a sphere of influence thousands of miles away.  It’s not a new concept.

 

A war between the US and China in the Eastern Pacific is a real possibility in the future, not according to me, but according to the US military.  Nuclear war - unlikely.

 

You don’t know who bombed the Nord pipeline anymore than I do.

[cubsfan]

22 hours ago, Sweet said:

That sphere of influence that America has in Europe and Asian contributes massively to its security.  It’s in the best interest of the US and the West generally to ensure Ukraine survives.

 

I'd agree with just about everything in your rant. It's in the best interest of the US for a secure Asia and Europe.  In this instance, Russia needs to be stopped and Europe has woken up. You can thank Obama & Biden for telegraphing US weakness to Putin, enabling him to grab Crimea and now eastern Ukraine.

 

The political situation here in the US currently is first and foremost, the Southern Border. Most of the country is now united about sealing the border - the country is - but not the politicians. While the country was solidly behind Ukraine these past 2 years - support has greatly diminished once the destruction of our own country continues at a rapid pace. Citizens are fed up.

 

So the easiest bill to pass would be sealing the border - everyone knows it - and now citizens are pissed beyond belief it's not being done, whilst DC wants billions for other countries.

 

House Speaker Mike Johnson is in a real pickle trying to pass a huge foreign aid bill while ignoring his constituents. These issues may not be settled until the election once and for all.

[Sweet]

7 minutes ago, cubsfan said:

 

I'd agree with just about everything in your rant. It's in the best interest of the US for a secure Asia and Europe.  In this instance, Russia needs to be stopped and Europe has woken up. You can thank Obama & Biden for telegraphing US weakness to Putin, enabling him to grab Crimea and now eastern Ukraine.

 

The political situation here in the US currently is first and foremost, the Southern Border. Most of the country is now united about sealing the border - the country is - but not the politicians. While the country was solidly behind Ukraine these past 2 years - support has greatly diminished once the destruction of our own country continues at a rapid pace. Citizens are fed up.

 

So the easiest bill to pass would be sealing the border - everyone knows it - and now citizens are pissed beyond belief it's not being done, whilst DC wants billions for other countries.

 

House Speaker Mike Johnson is in a real pickle trying to pass a huge foreign aid bill while ignoring his constituents. These issues may not be settled until the election once and for all.

Biden was never going to sort the border to the satisfaction of the GOP and its supporters.  I think this was clear a good while ago.  And I think Biden was more than happy to lay the blame for Ukraine at the feet of the GOP (even though he had the power to gift weapons to Ukraine without Congress).

[Luca]

35 minutes ago, Sweet said:

I’m European Luca, and I find some of your beliefs astonishing.

Understandable, did you also want to "freeze for ukraine" lol! 

35 minutes ago, Sweet said:

Your view that we should be closer to Russia and China is fringe and that’s a charitable interpretation.  I don’t know anybody else, especially after the invasion of Ukraine, who thinks we would be better off closer to Russia.

My position being "fringe" is not an argument. And referring to what the general population says as the right position is also no argument. 

35 minutes ago, Sweet said:

Many European countries have not been meeting their 2% defence spending commitment for a long time.  Our security has been subsidised by the US for decades.  We should have been more independent militarily decades ago. 

If it makes you feel important, we did not spend so much because we lived in peace...now things are getting a bit more tensed and US more unreliable with leadership, yes its smart to up spending and make sure we can defend ourselves, but not more. The goal of our army is defense, not offense against Russia in a war that doesn't serve our interest whatsoever. 

 

Russia was our main ressource/energy supplier on which the industrial fundamentals of our economy were built. Russian resources and german engineering was always a threat to the US economy, now we are in a really bad place and our economy is too. Our business leaves to the US. People became so nuts to even be willing to sacrifice all of it just to help some regions in Ukraine nobody ever heard about. Then you have that Zelensky puppet...its all a farce and we should save every dollar possible. Oh, and then north stream was bombed...BY RUSSIA!!!!!

35 minutes ago, Sweet said:

And instead of thanking Americans from saving Eastern Europe from Russian domination we get ungrateful comments like yours?  Are you serious with that crap?

I am not "ungrateful" about you "saving" ukraine. I am ungrateful to our government who gets involved, shall the Americans save ukraine alone please. Also, saying my arguments are crap is not an argument either and doesn't strengthen your position. 

35 minutes ago, Sweet said:

Trump and Blinken are also right on trade.  By trading with nations which are our adversaries we are helping them get strong and then they use that to undermine our values and way of life.  No thank you. 

No they are not, China is not our adversary and neither is Russia, we should have a lot of trade with them, especially for resources and we shouldn't listen to the US with their moral propaganda blabla. 

Edited April 20 by Luca

[Luca]

23 minutes ago, cubsfan said:

I'd agree with just about everything in your rant. It's in the best interest of the US for a secure Asia and Europe.  In this instance, Russia needs to be stopped and Europe has woken up. You can thank Obama & Biden for telegraphing US weakness to Putin, enabling him to grab Crimea and now eastern Ukraine.

 

The political situation here in the US currently is first and foremost, the Southern Border. Most of the country is now united about sealing the border - the country is - but not the politicians. While the country was solidly behind Ukraine these past 2 years - support has greatly diminished once the destruction of our own country continues at a rapid pace. Citizens are fed up.

 

So the easiest bill to pass would be sealing the border - everyone knows it - and now citizens are pissed beyond belief it's not being done, whilst DC wants billions for other countries.

 

House Speaker Mike Johnson is in a real pickle trying to pass a huge foreign aid bill while ignoring his constituents. These issues may not be settled until the election once and for all.

Maybe just stick to focusing on your own country instead of getting involved everywhere and playing global police. The same is true for Israel/Gaza. Biden is always ready to arrive with his warships haha! 

 

We should learn from China, staying neutral, and offering options for diplomatic negotiations but nothing more. 

[Luca]

Look, every country out there is mostly doing whats in their own interest, the US is spying everywhere and listening to Angela Merkels phone, China is listening to bidens phone, the US is listening to Netanyahus phone etc...its nothing new and if you step out of your own countries position things get a lot more multipolar. All that matters is interest and we were a loser in this war and shouldn't have been. China cares about its own interests and the interests of its people, everybody throwing russia away? Sure, we will take the cheap energy no problem. They get a lot, we lose a lot. Thats life. The US doesn't care about germanys interest, or frances interest but about their own and that's totally okay. But I urge germanies and every other European government to consider the implications of the Russian cut off and the rising tensions that the US tries to push us in with china...we wont be winners but the US will be. 

 

The war in Israel is mostly meaningless but its again a show for the US and the west to demonstrate their power and their peaceful democracies