Iran - Israel - Gaza Conflict

[Sweet]

19 minutes ago, Luca said:

Understandable, did you also want to "freeze for ukraine" lol! 

My position being "fringe" is not an argument. And referring to what the general population says as the right position is also no argument. 

If it makes you feel important, we did not spend so much because we lived in peace...now things are getting a bit more tensed and US more unreliable with leadership, yes its smart to up spending and make sure we can defend ourselves, but not more. The goal of our army is defense, not offense against Russia in a war that doesn't serve our interest whatsoever. 

 

Russia was our main ressource/energy supplier on which the industrial fundamentals of our economy were built. Russian resources and german engineering was always a threat to the US economy, now we are in a really bad place and our economy is too. Our business leaves to the US. People became so nuts to even be willing to sacrifice all of it just to help some regions in Ukraine nobody ever heard about. Then you have that Zelensky puppet...its all a farce and we should save every dollar possible. Oh, and then north stream was bombed...BY RUSSIA!!!!!

I am not "ungrateful" about you "saving" ukraine. I am ungrateful to our government who gets involved, shall the Americans save ukraine alone please. Also, saying my arguments are crap is not an argument either and doesn't strengthen your position. 

No they are not, China is not our adversarie and neither is russia, we should have a lot of trade with them, especially for resources and we shouldn't listen to the US with their moral propaganda blabla. 

I’m saying your ideas are fringe to inform others reading along that I’ve never met anybody in Europe who shares your belief.  They are fringe because it’s truly a moronic take and I think the reasons why are self-evident.

 

There is a saying Luca, ‘peace through strength’ and another which is ‘weakness invites aggression’.  Two percent was never appropriate.  Putin has been picking away at Ukraine for nearly a decade so it’s strange that Europe only just found religion.

 

Russian energy and German engineering is not an economic threat to the US.  The US has pulled away from Europe many years before the Ukraine war.  Look at the divergence in economic performance from 2008 to the Russian invasion.  There is little innovation in Europe, we are over taxed and over regulated.

 

Russia is not an adversary?  LMAO!  You’re insane.

 

Edited April 20 by Sweet

[cubsfan]

5 minutes ago, Luca said:

Maybe just stick to focusing on your own country instead of getting involved everywhere and playing global police. The same is true for Israel/Gaza. Biden is always ready to arrive with his warships haha! 

 

We should learn from China, staying neutral, and offering options for diplomatic negotiations but nothing more. 

 

You seem to be getting a little sensitive @Luca

 

The US and Europe have always been powerful, powerful allies. 

But, it's like a marriage - it takes work - so we'll keep working on that.

 

But continue to feel free and stick up for our most dangerous adversary - China.

 

You do a fine job of that, I might say.

[Luke]

6 minutes ago, Sweet said:

I’m saying your ideas are fringe to inform others read that I’ve never met anybody in Europe who shares your belief.  They are fringe because it’s truly a moronic take and I think the reasons why are self-evident.

 

There is a saying Luca, ‘peace through strength’ and another which is ‘weakness invites aggression.  Two percent was never appropriate.  Putin has been picking away at Ukraine for nearly a decade so it’s strange that Europe only just found religion.

 

Russian energy and German engineering is not an economic threat to the US.  The US has pulled away from Europe many years before the Ukraine war.  Look at the divergence in economic performance from 2008 to the Russian invasion.  There is little innovation in Europe, we are over taxed and over regulated.

 

Russia is not an adversary?  LMAO!  You’re insane.

I have moved my answer to the russia thread since we are mainly talking about that now. 

Edited April 20 by Luca

[Luke]

6 minutes ago, cubsfan said:

But continue to feel free and stick up for our most dangerous adversary - China.

I have made my position on China already very clear so no point in talking about that again. 

 

What does Israel/Iran mean for the broader geopolitical development? 

 

IMO the actions by the west are mostly symbolic, besides that Israel can be and was used a a small island of western interest compared to the surrounding countries that start to look close to china and russia. Makes sense again to me to support the heck out of that island for the west. 

[cubsfan]

5 minutes ago, Luca said:

I have made my position on China already very clear so no point in talking about that again. 

 

What does Israel/Iran mean for the broader geopolitical development? 

 

IMO the actions by the west are mostly symbolic, besides that Israel can be and was used a a small island of western interest compared to the surrounding countries that start to look close to china and russia. Makes sense again to me to support the heck out of that island for the west. 

 

I have no idea what you are saying - are you suggesting Israel should not exist?

[Luke]

7 minutes ago, cubsfan said:

I have no idea what you are saying - are you suggesting Israel should not exist?

I mean, it has significant foreign reserves, has a reasonable economy, is Western orientated...

 

A lot of things to like for us so it makes sense to support them. 

 

There are African regions where millions day and nobody gives a shit, nobody sends them money and they just die and starve alone in the woods sooo...our support is selective. 

[Luke]

Doesn't make sense to support the religiously and culturally completely different poor peasants in Gaza that have pretty much nothing to offer to western countries. Its understandable that many then come to the conclusion that gaza lives don't matter and that there is some sort of bias happening. 

[cubsfan]

18 minutes ago, Luca said:

Doesn't make sense to support the religiously and culturally completely different poor peasants in Gaza that have pretty much nothing to offer to western countries. Its understandable that many then come to the conclusion that gaza lives don't matter and that there is some sort of bias happening. 

 

The West has sent $600M per year to Gaza for years now. That's an awful lot of money.  Gaza has had tremendous financial aid. Those funds, then are diverted to support a terrorist infrastructure instead of a rebuilt Gaza.

 

So you want to blame that one on the West? 

 

You call it "bias", actually it's "failure".

Edited April 20 by cubsfan

[Luke]

7 minutes ago, cubsfan said:

The West has sent $600M per year to Gaza for years now. That's an awful lot of money.  Gaza has had tremendous financial aid. Those funds, then are diverted to support a terrorist infrastructure instead of a rebuilt Gaza.

 

So you want to blame that one on the West? 

 

You call it "bias", actually it's "failure".

Yeah I mean that's nothing really, Israel received 250b since its founding? 

 

But also, yes, they can not be made partners or stabilized. Not worth spending money on, especially with radical Islam, etc. 

[Xerxes]

2 hours ago, Dinar said:

I am with you.  I wanted to do this during the world cup in 2018, but my wife would not let me (we had a 2 year old and she was pregnant - she could not go, while she thought I'd come back with a girlfriend from there...)

 

The country in incredibly beautiful both nature wise and architecture wise, while we are on the subject of regrets, I'd add Kiev, Palmyra & Damascus.  I cannot wait for regime change in Iran - I would love to visit Isfahan, Shiraz, Persepolis, et all.

 

 

Few years ago, I was in Beijing. Did Xian, Chengdu, Yunnan (best part of China), Guandong and came out of PRC via Hong Kong through the land border. 
 

The group I was with were mostly Europeans. And mostly British (I love the Brits for the their sense of adventurism), mostly my age, but with few elderly. One of them was a just retired Swede lady. She had taken the Transiberian train from Europe and passed through the land border into PRC and was in Beijing just in time to start this part of her trip around the world. 
 

That was 10 years and a few invasions ago. That how easy it was to get around. Today the same person wouldn’t dare plan a trip like that. But I have no doubt that the pendulum can swing that fast again. 
 

——-
 

On Isfahan, I actually been there. But barely remember anything.
 

For now both of us, we got to make do watching YouTubers eating Isfahani food. 
 

 

 

[Dinar]

2 hours ago, Luca said:

Yeah I mean that's nothing really, Israel received 250b since its founding? 

 

But also, yes, they can not be made partners or stabilized. Not worth spending money on, especially with radical Islam, etc. 

Dude, I generally agree with you, but your numbers cannot be correct.  How do you figure that Israel received $250bn since its founding.  From which governments?

[TwoCitiesCapital]

3 hours ago, cubsfan said:

 

The West has sent $600M per year to Gaza for years now. That's an awful lot of money.  Gaza has had tremendous financial aid. Those funds, then are diverted to support a terrorist infrastructure instead of a rebuilt Gaza.

 

So you want to blame that one on the West? 

 

You call it "bias", actually it's "failure".

 

I mean, the US sends Israel ~$3 billion a year to buy our military products so....

 

 

[Luke]

5 hours ago, Dinar said:

Dude, I generally agree with you, but your numbers cannot be correct.  How do you figure that Israel received $250bn since its founding.  From which governments?

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/articles/2023-10-10/how-much-aid-does-the-u-s-give-to-israel

 

The United States has given Israel more aid than any other nation since World War II, granting it more than $260 billion.

[Dinar]

6 hours ago, Luca said:

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/articles/2023-10-10/how-much-aid-does-the-u-s-give-to-israel

 

The United States has given Israel more aid than any other nation since World War II, granting it more than $260 billion.

If you read the article, you will realize that the numbers are cooked, they are simply NOT correct.

a) The figures are adjusted for inflation, however not properly.  If the money for arms purchases was granted in 1960, but not spent until 1970, there is no adjustment for the fact that 1970 dollar bought far less than 1960 dollar.   So when the article translates 1960 dollar into 2021 dollar, it does not differentiate between the 1960 aid spent in 1960 and in 1970.   So methodology is fatally flawed.  

b) The chart does NOT support the $260 bn figure, more like half that.  

[Xerxes]

I need to retake my geography class.

 

If bad guys* are in Gaza, than what is going in West Bank that is so bad, that your biggest fan wants to sanctions you for it. 

 

https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/22/middleeast/israeli-military-us-sanctions-west-bank-intl?cid=ios_app

 

* bad guys = everyone in Gaza (Hamas or not). 

[Ulti]

13 minutes ago, Xerxes said:

If bad guys* are in Gaza, than what is going in West Bank that is so bad, that your biggest fan wants to sanctions you for it. 

My off the cuff thought is that the current US admin is trying to play both sides ( esp. after the latest UN vote ). They need the votes.

[cubsfan]

11 minutes ago, Ulti said:

My off the cuff thought is that the current US admin is trying to play both sides ( esp. after the latest UN vote ). They need the votes.

yeah, that seems right. Every Middle East decision this administration has made has been disastrous, so they’ve no idea how to handle it.

[Ulti]

47 minutes ago, cubsfan said:

Every Middle East decision this administration has made has been disastrous, so they’ve no idea how to handle it.

I'll have to respectfully disagree (and I'm a moderate and have many issues with this admin as well as the last.) They must be doing something right with all these left wing protest against them going on.

[cubsfan]

6 minutes ago, Ulti said:

I'll have to respectfully disagree (and I'm a moderate and have many issues with this admin as well as the last.) They must be doing something right with all these left wing protest against them going on.

 

No problem. My point is deeper than that. This administration has destroyed the peace in the Middle East.  Jake Sullivan , Biden's key national security advisor, said last summer, this period of the Middle East has been the "most peaceful in 2 decades". So of course, administration policy reinstated funding for Iran and Gaza, in addition to removing Houthis off the designated terrorist list. 

 

And who are the 3 groups attacking Israel full throttle?

 

Every key decision has been a disaster.  Quite frankly, I'm surprised this administration has not cancelled the Abraham Accords.

[Eldad]

Columbia cancels classes due to anti-Israel protests. 
 

If you combine this situation, the powerful alumni’s vocal disgust, and the removal of standardized testing as a selection criteria: I am wondering how much longer these institutions have? 
 

When corporate America refuses to pay extra for these kids and the best recruiting grounds move elsewhere and the Ivys still need 60k a year per student to survive, it is going to get very ugly for them. 

[Malmqky]

21 minutes ago, Eldad said:

Columbia cancels classes due to anti-Israel protests. 
 

If you combine this situation, the powerful alumni’s vocal disgust, and the removal of standardized testing as a selection criteria: I am wondering how much longer these institutions have? 
 

When corporate America refuses to pay extra for these kids and the best recruiting grounds move elsewhere and the Ivys still need 60k a year per student to survive, it is going to get very ugly for them. 

Imagine paying $60k per year to have classes canceled because of protests.

 

If I was a student I’d be pissed. And yes, I know they were moved online but that’s besides the point.

Edited April 22 by Malmqky

[Gregmal]

Bet the teachers are still getting paid though. 

[Gamecock-YT]

Must be a slow news day, got to love the 24 hour news cycle. If you want to read up on something that matters that isn’t getting any publicity anywhere look up the recent developments in Myanmar. More productive use of your time than caring about college kids protesting. 

Edited April 23 by Gamecock-YT

[Spekulatius]

7 hours ago, Gamecock-YT said:

Must be a slow news day, got to love the 24 hour news cycle. If you want to read up on something that matters that isn’t getting any publicity anywhere look up the recent developments in Myanmar. More productive use of your time than caring about college kids protesting. 

Myanmar is an interesting situation because it looks like the Junta running the country may lose the Guerilla war and get toppled. Could happen quicker then many people think. China is also vying for influence there, of course. Hopefully our folks from the state department are also paying  attention.

[Xerxes]

7 hours ago, Gamecock-YT said:

Must be a slow news day, got to love the 24 hour news cycle. If you want to read up on something that matters that isn’t getting any publicity anywhere look up the recent developments in Myanmar. More productive use of your time than caring about college kids protesting. 

not good enough. I don’t who is good guy and who is bad guy in Burma. They all look the same. 
 

I want a juicy conflict where I am able to walk on the street and able to point a finger to a random person and say you are a Bad Guy ! We can do that only in Gaza. It is so perfect and so unbiased.