Cryptocurrencies

[dealraker]

47 minutes ago, Viking said:

@Gregmal, you have a far better example than SBF. Trump is in a class of his own when it comes lying/doing unethical & questionable things. All the while being  “shamelessly unapologetic and blaming everyone else”. Come on… Trump is the GOAT. 
 

Every once in a while we get a glimpse into how rotten the US political system is. Its not a liberal or conservative thing.

If the word blame is brought up then the world's greatest piece of worthless garbage named Trump and his near 5,000 lawsuits must be proclaimed now and forevermore the champion of all time.  The man is the most pathetic human being who has ever walked the face of the earth.  

[Castanza]

For those who follow the crypto markets what’s the thoughts on how far this spreads? How many other exchanges will collapse? What happens to liquidity if Genesis goes under? 

[Gregmal]

16 minutes ago, Castanza said:

For those who follow the crypto markets what’s the thoughts on how far this spreads? How many other exchanges will collapse? What happens to liquidity if Genesis goes under? 

I’m watching this bc that’s when you’ll want to buy BTC. It’s not something you can destroy, literally…so you wanna wait til the selling is all forced, fear, panic…all hope is lost. Then wait a few weeks or months and 3-4 bag it. But all hope has to be lost first. Need to see a few more big guys go under for the setup to occur.

Edited November 18, 2022 by Gregmal

[Gregmal]

31 minutes ago, dealraker said:

If the word blame is brought up then the world's greatest piece of worthless garbage named Trump and his near 5,000 lawsuits must be proclaimed now and forevermore the champion of all time.  The man is the most pathetic human being who has ever walked the face of the earth.  

Absolutely. And he was, for 90% of his life? A de……

 

His closest friends and kids closest friends were the Clintons lol.

Edited November 18, 2022 by Gregmal

[Parsad]

16 minutes ago, Castanza said:

For those who follow the crypto markets what’s the thoughts on how far this spreads? How many other exchanges will collapse? What happens to liquidity if Genesis goes under? 

 

They haven't stopped the contagion.  We know that other brokerages are restricting withdrawals.  We don't know how many more will topple.  We also don't know which large funds have exposure to other crypto investments that are now going to have to be written down.  

 

The one good thing is that this didn't get as big as it could have, nor was it fully legalized or sanctioned unlike many other securities bubbles.  It looks like at the end of the day, the implosion will have more of a lasting effect on people's net worth's, rather than any huge systemic issue outside of the crypto space.  The outcome will most likely be restrained spending and a sense of being poorer on average.

 

Essentially a "Buyer Beware!" exercise rather than a push into a deep, deep, painful recession.  Cheers!

[Parsad]

5 minutes ago, Gregmal said:

Absolutely. And he was, for 90% of his life? A de……

 

His closest friends and kids closest friends were the Clintons lol.

 

Yeah, it all got fucked up when he spent the last 10% of his life as a Rep...

 

They both suck in my opinion!  Cheers!

[dealraker]

9 minutes ago, Gregmal said:

Absolutely. And he was, for 90% of his life? A de……

 

His closest friends and kids closest friends were the Clintons lol.

I enjoy your over-the-top beyond extreme bias' Greg, they are as plain and simple...and blazingly obvious... as anything I've ever seen, but dead genuine.  Not being facetious either when I write that.  Interesting that you post often on the cyrpto site where to me there's a huge attempt to playtime visionaries as to things so untouchably bizarre that there's no human capable of predicting any of it.  Why?  Because you are such a nuts and bolts type, basic to the bone.  It is an interesting intersection of people to say the least.

 

Life is great...if you can stand it.  

[Gregmal]

Ha. I think what I like about crypto is the degree to which a lot of it is just trading psychology. The fear and the greed. The panic both up and down. There’s also an element that eliminates risk…no earnings no underlying value. So to a degree your underlying driver is predictable human nature inspired behavior. Been watching for a decade and am 2/2 trading the mania. Hoping to get another shot.

 

I think I mentioned before but my get the fuck out sell signal last time was an old acquaintance, dumb as a fuckin brick, boasting he mortgaged his home to buy 13 BTC(his equity was maybe $100k but hey there’s crypto lending margin now!) back in late 2021. That and Mia Khalifa telling everyone they were missing out!

Edited November 18, 2022 by Gregmal

[Castanza]

9 minutes ago, Gregmal said:

I’m watching this bc that’s when you’ll want to buy BTC. It’s not something you can destroy, literally…so you wanna wait til the selling is all forced, fear, panic…all hope is lost. Then wait a few weeks or months and 3-4 bag it. But all hope has to be lost first. Need to see a few more big guys go under for the setup to occur.

 

4 minutes ago, Parsad said:

 

They haven't stopped the contagion.  We know that other brokerages are restricting withdrawals.  We don't know how many more will topple.  We also don't know which large funds have exposure to other crypto investments that are now going to have to be written down.  

 

The one good thing is that this didn't get as big as it could have, nor was it fully legalized or sanctioned unlike many other securities bubbles.  It looks like at the end of the day, the implosion will have more of a lasting effect on people's net worth's, rather than any huge systemic issue outside of the crypto space.  The outcome will most likely be restrained spending and a sense of being poorer on average.

 

Essentially a "Buyer Beware!" exercise rather than a push into a deep, deep, painful recession.  Cheers!

I was listening to a few podcasts today while traveling for work. Idk if it’s just me but my God the whole system seems likes it’s bubble gum and shoe strings. Even the journalists covering this stuff sound like complete shills. The big names all have nicknames and are viewed as Gods. The terminology surrounding the industry, insider “beef” between different founders. It’s insane. The complete lack of due diligence by anyone is astounding. It’s bizarro world. Memes meet finance.

[UK]

1 hour ago, Castanza said:

 

I was listening to a few podcasts today while traveling for work. Idk if it’s just me but my God the whole system seems likes it’s bubble gum and shoe strings. Even the journalists covering this stuff sound like complete shills. The big names all have nicknames and are viewed as Gods. The terminology surrounding the industry, insider “beef” between different founders. It’s insane. The complete lack of due diligence by anyone is astounding. It’s bizarro world. Memes meet finance.

 

It is like a different galaxy, former Valeant's corporate cotrol looks like almost taintless comparing to this:)))

 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/ceo-overseeing-ftx-restructuring-calls-it-an-unprecedented-mess-11668707836?mod=hp_lead_pos1

 

“Never in my career have I seen such a complete failure of corporate controls and such a complete absence of trustworthy financial information as occurred here,” Mr. Ray said in the filing. “From compromised systems integrity and faulty regulatory oversight abroad, to the concentration of control in the hands of a very small group of inexperienced, unsophisticated and potentially compromised individuals, this situation is unprecedented.”

 

On Wednesday, the news website Vox posted an article featuring screenshots of direct messages exchanged on Twitter between Mr. Bankman-Fried and a reporter, Kelsey Piper. In a part of the exchange, he said “f— regulators” and asserted that “they make everything worse.” He also implied that his advocacy for better crypto regulation in Washington was “just PR.”

 

 

[Gregmal]

The crypto space is basically where everyone without fancy degrees gets to behave like they work on Wall Street. For a while they got paid like it too. Soon they’ll be back to selling cars, miracle supplements, CBD, and prepaid phone cards.

[Blugolds]

1 hour ago, Gregmal said:

The crypto space is basically where everyone without fancy degrees gets to behave like they work on Wall Street. For a while they got paid like it too. Soon they’ll be back to selling cars, miracle supplements, CBD, and prepaid phone cards.

 

^ please add, involvement in every new/hot multi-level marketing "opportunity"... 

 

Speaking to your other post above about a sign to get out, I also had several coworkers with zero regard for risk management making moves to free up cash in order to DCA down in various crypto names, Im talking about serious life altering steps with retirement accounts, mortgage, etc.

 

It gave me anxiety just hearing it (honestly a sick feeling).

 

The irony....an attempt to get back to even after GME/AMC et al didnt hit. 

 

You're dead on about human psychology, thats exactly what it is. Many of the same folks betting big on the hot tip meme stonks are/have done the same with crypto. Its the same psychology, fear of missing out, bias etc seen in any casino. And what surprises me is that there is more creditability from commercials with famous people etc that attracts the sheep. 

 

I have known a couple people in my life that were what I would consider degenerate gamblers. At the casino more days of the week than not, always looking for that next big hit, always talking about "that one hand" or someone they know or heard about that hit it big, play the roll and act like they have a strategy system with no regard for statistics of casino games, refuse to acknowledge the house advantage and instead think that some mystical ability or strategy they have/know gives THEM the edge, many times doubling down in an attempt to avoid the pain of accepting the loss. None of these things are new. 

 

Even with all the above behavior, the ones I have known at least, still would not mortgage the house, or tap the 401k (if they contributed) to gamble. They might have spent nearly ALL the extra money they had each month and then some, charge daily expenses on the CC so that more can go to the casino, but in a way there were some sort of "protection" there either mentally or legally to prevent them from some kind of serious life altering mistakes. (a reason you have to buy lotto tickets with cash and not a credit card) Dont get me wrong, there ARE people that throw it all away at the casino also, I realize that...but these are what I would call "functioning chronic gamblers"....like alcoholics, the behavior is unhealthy, no rational person would do it, its detrimental and will eventually cause an undesirable end result, but from the outside they seem to be in control. 

 

With the "legitimacy" of the term "investment" (and I say that loosely) people are more willing to take even greater risk. Surely so-and-so (insert name of celebrity, fund manager, youtube star, pro athlete here) wouldnt be involved if it wasnt legit. So rather than taking the couple grand a month they spend at the casino and dropping it into their brokerage account to buy shitcoins...they are looking for ways to pull their 401k out of "mediocre" vanguard funds and buy crypto, or HELOC, tapping serious capital to "invest" in something that they wouldnt be as likely to do playing blackjack, slots, poker. But the consequences on their financial future will be far greater. 

 

Meanwhile they will lose on the meme stonks, lose on crypto shitcoins, blow their accounts up and then be so jaded that they start to say things like, "the markets are rigged" and like a beat dog, be apprehensive to even contribute again to the original vanguard funds they were in to begin with...compounding the future problem. 

 

 

[fareastwarriors]

No one wants to listen to me when I tell them you can be a multi-millionaire by just DCA'ing an index fund in your 401k and IRA.

Meh, what can you do? 

 

[Parsad]

4 hours ago, Gregmal said:

Ha. I think what I like about crypto is the degree to which a lot of it is just trading psychology. The fear and the greed. The panic both up and down. There’s also an element that eliminates risk…no earnings no underlying value. So to a degree your underlying driver is predictable human nature inspired behavior. Been watching for a decade and am 2/2 trading the mania. Hoping to get another shot.

 

I think I mentioned before but my get the fuck out sell signal last time was an old acquaintance, dumb as a fuckin brick, boasting he mortgaged his home to buy 13 BTC(his equity was maybe $100k but hey there’s crypto lending margin now!) back in late 2021. That and Mia Khalifa telling everyone they were missing out!

 

Who is Mia Khalifa?  Cheers!

[Castanza]

Well they definitely have the attention of regulators now. The fact is this is a major headwind moving forward for crypto in general. Why? Because what politician is going to be comfortable with these exchanges moving forward? I don’t think it’s out of the realm of possibility they all get shut down. 
 

Crypto bulls might say, well what about the REAL decentralized exchanges. Does it matter? You have to explain that to a body of curmudgeons in the government who are now more apprehensive than ever. That’s going to dry up liquidity and accessibility to the average person. 
 

The technology is irrelevant at this point imo. There are billions gone into thin air. Crypto is at odds with the greater direction of society. It embodies personal responsibility and accountability while governments around the world move towards more control and more safety nets for their citizens. People vote for more safety nets (many of the same people speculating with crypto) which is even more ironic. 
 

If politicians ever needed a good excuse to put an end to the crypto era on the securities/investment aspect….we’ll….this is it. 
 

A whole host of new questions are now being asked. Open Source is being questioned at its core, because at the end of the day, something that is open source can still be mismanaged, misused, miscalculated, or bugged. It can still cost people equity in some form. The crypto space has basically been using that to remove culpability from these “projects”. Someone or some institution is going to demand responsibility and accountability. 
 

 

@Blugolds11 My wife has a colleague who’s husband was putting damn near 50% of their income in NFTs. The husband liquidated the wife’s 401k and started an LLC making NFTs. They’re in their late 30’s have two kids and still have student debt. She’s a nurse and he has a lawncare business.    

[Parsad]

4 hours ago, Castanza said:

 

I was listening to a few podcasts today while traveling for work. Idk if it’s just me but my God the whole system seems likes it’s bubble gum and shoe strings. Even the journalists covering this stuff sound like complete shills. The big names all have nicknames and are viewed as Gods. The terminology surrounding the industry, insider “beef” between different founders. It’s insane. The complete lack of due diligence by anyone is astounding. It’s bizarro world. Memes meet finance.

 

It's essentially what Wall Street would be like without any regulation.  Almost Lord of the Flies type behavior. 

 

Are we all really surprised that an unregulated securities industry would have the founder and employees of a company using investor capital to buy homes in the Bahamas and monitored by the first auditor from the Metaverse!

 

For years people have known that cryptocurrencies were used for the underground economy, criminal activity, money laundering and to get money offshore from China and elsewhere.  Yet, everyone was tickled pink by the prospects of easy money under the guise of replacing fiat currency and new technology.  

 

I posted on here that all of the pharmacists at my local pharmacy had invested in cryptocurrency.  Every Tom, Dick and Harry was starting to buy this stuff.  You knew it wouldn't end well! 

 

My question is where the fuck were the regulators?!  This wasn't MBS...this was clear as day!  What was the SEC doing...or the provincial securities regulators in Canada...or just about any securities regulator around the world?  Hopefully some of them invested too and lost a shitload! 

 

Cheers!

[Parsad]

8 minutes ago, Castanza said:

Well they definitely have the attention of regulators now. The fact is this is a major headwind moving forward for crypto in general. Why? Because what politician is going to be comfortable with these exchanges moving forward? I don’t think it’s out of the realm of possibility they all get shut down. 
 

Crypto bulls might say, well what about the REAL decentralized exchanges. Does it matter? You have to explain that to a body of curmudgeons in the government who are now more apprehensive than ever. That’s going to dry up liquidity and accessibility to the average person. 
 

The technology is irrelevant at this point imo. There are billions gone into thin air. Crypto is at odds with the greater direction of society. It embodies personal responsibility and accountability while governments around the world move towards more control and more safety nets for their citizens. People vote for more safety nets (many of the same people speculating with crypto) which is even more ironic. 
 

If politicians ever needed a good excuse to put an end to the crypto era on the securities/investment aspect….we’ll….this is it. 
 

A whole host of new questions are now being asked. Open Source is being questioned at its core, because at the end of the day, something that is open source can still be mismanaged, misused, miscalculated, or bugged. It can still cost people equity in some form. The crypto space has basically been using that to remove culpability from these “projects”. Someone or some institution is going to demand responsibility and accountability. 
 

 

@Blugolds11 My wife has a colleague who’s husband was putting damn near 50% of their income in NFTs. The husband liquidated the wife’s 401k and started an LLC making NFTs. They’re in their late 30’s have two kids and still have student debt. She’s a nurse and he has a lawncare business.    

 

No, this is the best thing that could have ever happened to crypto or blockchain!  This is exactly what the industry needed.  You will now have companies that have to register, provide financial statements, have a proper board, bylaws, corporate governance, filings, audits by a real auditor, disclosures, etc.  Yes, it will slow it down in the short-term, but will create innovation and bring in legitimate builders/investors to bring blockchain technology to fruition.  Cheers!

[Parsad]

What Sam Bankman-Fried has in store for his future:

 

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/elizabeth-holmes-sentencing-theranos-222120101.html

 

Can't see him getting much less!  Cheers!

[Castanza]

2 minutes ago, Parsad said:

 

No, this is the best thing that could have ever happened to crypto or blockchain!  This is exactly what the industry needed.  You will now have companies that have to register, provide financial statements, have a proper board, bylaws, corporate governance, filings, audits by a real auditor, disclosures, etc.  Yes, it will slow it down in the short-term, but will create innovation and bring in legitimate builders/investors to bring blockchain technology to fruition.  Cheers!

I can see that argument as well but that will take more willingness from the regulating bodies to thresh out. I can see them being lazy and in turn stifling the industry. At least from the “investment” / speculation side which is what 90% of retailers care about currently. 

[backtothebeach]

Warren: Bitcoin is worthless, it does not produce anything.

 

Charlie: Invert, always invert!

 

Greg: There’s also an element that eliminates risk…no earnings no underlying value.

 

 

[dealraker]

The right-hand man for Zeek Rewards's billion dollar pyramid scheme fouder Paul Burks was guy named Cory.  Zeek was headquartered directly across the street from our 130 year old family owned builders supply business (see link below).  Cory leads the Tuesday night crypto meeting at the two local (hugely successful pubs) in my town.  These pubs are very large and have elaborate and well-designed outdoor areas.  The crypto gathering is so large that the pub owners made them meet in the outdoor area on Tuesday's.  So in 2016 once a month this massive gathering required many to park (and there is a large parking area) a quarter mile away.  

 

My wife and I play trivia on Tuesday's here and my investment club also meets on Tuesday.  We held one of our club meetings at the crypto meeting because we thought the older memebers of the club would get their old age restricted/limited world rocked a tad...and they did, they absolutely loved it!

 

Cory leads the meetings.  Can't wait to see if the next meeting is even larger than last months.

 

By the way rumor is that Cory has shut down his crypto mining business and gone back to work in the sign business he sold (and signed a non-compete agreement).  He'd invested $150k in it just last year and told me the energy bill had hit $1000 a month at one point.  

 

Before I post the link below...the Zeek thing was so big locally that our school system had to shut down for a day while the Superintendent and her crew lectured principal's/staff in attempts to withdraw them from their all day Zeek addictions.  Our trivia cohorts state that the faculty meetings were Zeek promotions...profits were to be made!

 

The link:  https://www.justice.gov/usao-wdnc/pr/former-zeekrewards-ceo-convicted-federal-charges-operating-900-million-internet-ponzi

 

 

Edited November 18, 2022 by dealraker

[Spekulatius]

Crypto is pure play on human psychology, greed and fear. You don’t have to worry about fundamentals or earnings , there aren’t any. In a way that makes it the ideal trading sardine.

[dealraker]

I'll add one thing that is so relevant to all ponzi's - from my local scene and all should take this in.

 

A huge number of people locally blame the government for shutting down Zeeks.  They chant in union that all was fine and that the gov is to blame for their losses.  This grievance theme people, grievance as to "the guv", is the psychological world of communties like mine.  If you aren't aware of that then you do not know middle class America today.  

 

The small minority of us that do not think this way?  Well, we just watch and keep our views amoung us only.

 

Bitcoin is very popular among people with minimal investments and literally no concept of long term investing in the markets.

Edited November 18, 2022 by dealraker

[Gregmal]

37 minutes ago, Spekulatius said:

Crypto is pure play on human psychology, greed and fear. You don’t have to worry about fundamentals or earnings , there aren’t any. In a way that makes it the ideal trading sardine.

Exactly. When you look to size up a trade, the more variables you can eliminate, the more precise your sequencing of potential outcomes gets to be. With stocks, you have these annoying things called earnings, intrinsic value, and even the random 8k which can always go in your direction, or against it. Crypto you dont have most of that. 

[Castanza]

10 hours ago, UK said:

 

It is like a different galaxy, former Valeant's corporate cotrol looks like almost taintless comparing to this:)))

 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/ceo-overseeing-ftx-restructuring-calls-it-an-unprecedented-mess-11668707836?mod=hp_lead_pos1

 

“Never in my career have I seen such a complete failure of corporate controls and such a complete absence of trustworthy financial information as occurred here,” Mr. Ray said in the filing. “From compromised systems integrity and faulty regulatory oversight abroad, to the concentration of control in the hands of a very small group of inexperienced, unsophisticated and potentially compromised individuals, this situation is unprecedented.”

 

On Wednesday, the news website Vox posted an article featuring screenshots of direct messages exchanged on Twitter between Mr. Bankman-Fried and a reporter, Kelsey Piper. In a part of the exchange, he said “f— regulators” and asserted that “they make everything worse.” He also implied that his advocacy for better crypto regulation in Washington was “just PR.”

 

 

 

"FTX Employees submitted payment requests through a chat platform, which were approved with personalized emojis."

 

There is no official employee roster so Ray cannot find who actually worked for the company. There is also no records of major business decisions as SBA used auto deleting messages.