ERICOPOLY Posted May 23, 2020 Posted May 23, 2020 In fact, the founder of Planned Parenthood was a big into eugenics. In fact, George Washington was a slavemaster. This isn't coronavirus though. Can abortion be discussed elsewhere?
Guest Posted May 23, 2020 Posted May 23, 2020 In fact, the founder of Planned Parenthood was a big into eugenics. In fact, George Washington was a slavemaster. This isn't coronavirus though. Can abortion be discussed elsewhere? okay, okay! ;) Just trying to understand the logic of it (or lack thereof).
Investor20 Posted May 23, 2020 Posted May 23, 2020 https://news.bloomberglaw.com/coronavirus/adding-zinc-to-malaria-drug-mix-may-help-covid-19-patients-heal Adding zinc to a cocktail of medicines touted by President Donald Trump may help Covid-19 patients survive and recover enough to be sent home from the hospital, according to researchers in New York City. A group of 411 patients given zinc along with the malaria medicine hydroxychloroquine and the antibiotic azithromycin for five days were 44% less likely to die and 50% more likely to be discharged home than a comparison group of 521 patients who didn’t get the supplement. What would the numbers be for taking zinc by itself, or for the cocktail without adding the hydroxychloroquine? The study says patients treated with hydrochloroquine benefit from zinc, but perhaps a more important question is whether patients treated with zinc benefit from the potentially deadly hydrochloroquine? Eric, the study is between Zinc, HCQ +Azithromycin vs HCQ+Azithromycin. The authors believe that HCQ helps zinc absorb and Zinc has antiviral properties. https://www.sciencetimes.com/articles/25658/20200512/hydroxychloroquine-azithromycin-zinc-triple-combo-proved-effective-coronavirus-patients-study.htm In the study, half of 900 COVID-19 patients were given the triple-drug combo of hydroxychloroquine, zinc, and azithromycin. The other half were given only hydroxychloroquine and the antibiotic, azithromycin. I just take zinc and save myself the rest. Great benefit cost ratio. The rest I am not sure about. Does Zinc alone work as a prophylactic? I dont know but the authors of this article don't believe so. Unlike what Eric said, their theory is just not an hypothesis. They gave two citations. From the article: Zinc inhibits RNA dependent RNA polymerase, and has been shown to do this in vitro against SARS-CoV[13]. However, it is difficult to generate substantial intracellular concentrations of zinc, therefore prophylactic administration of zinc alone may not play a role against SarCoV-2[14]. When combined with a zinc ionophore, such as chloroquine (hydroxychloroquine), cellular uptake is increased making it more likely to achieve suitably elevated intracellular concentrations[15]. The Citation 13: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2973827/ Zn2+ Inhibits Coronavirus and Arterivirus RNA Polymerase Activity In Vitro and Zinc Ionophores Block the Replication of These Viruses in Cell Culture; Published online 2010 Nov 4. The Citation 15: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4182877/ Chloroquine Is a Zinc Ionophore; Published online 2014 Oct 1 The article also says "However, our findings do not suggest a prophylactic benefit of zinc sulfate in the absence of a zinc ionophore, despite interest in this therapy for prevention. A prophylactic strategy of zinc sulfate should be evaluated to help answer this question." Its upto you whether you want to take Zinc alone as supplement. Just stating whats in the article.
mattee2264 Posted May 23, 2020 Posted May 23, 2020 https://www.researchsquare.com/article/rs-21211/v1 Ensuring adequate vitamin D levels also seems to be helpful. A vitamin D deficiency would also help to explain why the elderly and those in care homes and nursing homes are suffering so much. And more anecdotally in the UK where I'm from we've had a massive heatwave and true to form Brits have ignored lockdown regulations and flocked to the parks and beaches and getting as much sun as they can and cases have continued to drop.
orthopa Posted May 23, 2020 Posted May 23, 2020 CDC just came out with their new estimate for the infection fatality ratio (IFR) - 0.27%. Are we just dealing with something as deadly as the flu but since it's novel, it's far more easily spread? Hey! Can people who have no idea what the IFR of the flu is please stop saying Covid "is just as deadly as the flu"? Hey! With the CDCs latest best estimate we maybe getting close to that. Keep in mind that the flu has that IFR with a widely available cheap vaccine and now 2 approved medications to treat it. Corona of course has neither a vaccine or approved widely available meds. So looking at it this way if there was not a flu shot available, and no meds to treat it, how high would its IFR be?
Cigarbutt Posted May 23, 2020 Posted May 23, 2020 https://www.researchsquare.com/article/rs-21211/v1 Ensuring adequate vitamin D levels also seems to be helpful. A vitamin D deficiency would also help to explain why the elderly and those in care homes and nursing homes are suffering so much. And more anecdotally in the UK where I'm from we've had a massive heatwave and true to form Brits have ignored lockdown regulations and flocked to the parks and beaches and getting as much sun as they can and cases have continued to drop. i'm presently involved (on a personal and otherwise level) in the circumstances described in the above bolded part and reading your post induced a cardiac pause. If you read this, could you elaborate (bcoz there must be something i'm missing)?
Peregrine Posted May 23, 2020 Posted May 23, 2020 CDC just came out with their new estimate for the infection fatality ratio (IFR) - 0.27%. Are we just dealing with something as deadly as the flu but since it's novel, it's far more easily spread? Hey! Can people who have no idea what the IFR of the flu is please stop saying Covid "is just as deadly as the flu"? Hey! With the CDCs latest best estimate we maybe getting close to that. Keep in mind that the flu has that IFR with a widely available cheap vaccine and now 2 approved medications to treat it. Corona of course has neither a vaccine or approved widely available meds. So looking at it this way if there was not a flu shot available, and no meds to treat it, how high would its IFR be? There's also the matter of counting. It isn't at all clear what deaths are caused by the flu, so the numerator and denominator are all guesses. While standard practice (likely for expediency) for counting COVID deaths is to count all deaths for which the deceased tested positive for it. So the stated IFRs may not be as comparable as one might think.
KCLarkin Posted May 23, 2020 Posted May 23, 2020 Hey! With the CDCs latest best estimate we maybe getting close to that. 4x isn't close**. It is a dangerous, BS narrative. CDC "best estimate" of Covid IFR-S = 0.4 CDC estimate of flu IFR-S last year (my calculations)* = 0.095 * 2018/2019 Estimated deaths / est. symptomatic illness = 34,000 / 35,000,000 = 0.095 Source: https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/past-seasons.html ** And the CDC estimate is low compared to other experts. For example, Dr. Fauci estimates 10x. Source: https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/11/top-federal-health-official-says-coronavirus-outbreak-is-going-to-get-worse-in-the-us.html
ERICOPOLY Posted May 23, 2020 Posted May 23, 2020 Hey! With the CDCs latest best estimate we maybe getting close to that. 4x isn't close**. It is a dangerous, BS narrative. CDC "best estimate" of Covid IFR-S = 0.4 CDC estimate of flu IFR-S last year (my calculations)* = 0.095 * 2018/2019 Estimated deaths / est. symptomatic illness = 34,000 / 35,000,000 = 0.095 Source: https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/past-seasons.html ** And the CDC estimate is low compared to other experts. For example, Dr. Fauci estimates 10x. Source: https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/11/top-federal-health-official-says-coronavirus-outbreak-is-going-to-get-worse-in-the-us.html Is the CDC calculation of these numbers going to be affected by their admissions of reporting overcounted testing data? Scientists Warn CDC Testing Data Could Create Misleading Picture Of Pandemic https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/05/21/860480756/scientists-warn-cdc-testing-data-could-create-misleading-picture-of-pandemic
Spekulatius Posted May 23, 2020 Posted May 23, 2020 Hey! With the CDCs latest best estimate we maybe getting close to that. 4x isn't close**. It is a dangerous, BS narrative. CDC "best estimate" of Covid IFR-S = 0.4 CDC estimate of flu IFR-S last year (my calculations)* = 0.095 * 2018/2019 Estimated deaths / est. symptomatic illness = 34,000 / 35,000,000 = 0.095 Source: https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/past-seasons.html ** And the CDC estimate is low compared to other experts. For example, Dr. Fauci estimates 10x. Source: https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/11/top-federal-health-official-says-coronavirus-outbreak-is-going-to-get-worse-in-the-us.html I do not know where the CDC’s IFR rate comes from, it I think it is possible to get the IFR rate to 0.4% (my current ballpark numbers are roughly 2x that). other countries have shown IFR rates of 0.4% and Less than that, it might be as simple as protecting the elderly better. Still, if you go herd immunity - 0.4% with 200M infections are 800k death. That needs to be seem relative to the 2.5M people dying in the US naturally, but even though. In addition to the just binary dead or alive after infection discussion, I have some concerns about those that survive severe episodes as far as quality of life and LT morbidity is concerned.
orthopa Posted May 23, 2020 Posted May 23, 2020 Hey! With the CDCs latest best estimate we maybe getting close to that. 4x isn't close**. It is a dangerous, BS narrative. CDC "best estimate" of Covid IFR-S = 0.4 CDC estimate of flu IFR-S last year (my calculations)* = 0.095 * 2018/2019 Estimated deaths / est. symptomatic illness = 34,000 / 35,000,000 = 0.095 Source: https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/past-seasons.html ** And the CDC estimate is low compared to other experts. For example, Dr. Fauci estimates 10x. Source: https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/11/top-federal-health-official-says-coronavirus-outbreak-is-going-to-get-worse-in-the-us.html My "getting close to that" references the fact that your comparing a virus with a widely available, cheap vaccine and 2 widely available medications to a novel one with neither. So yeah the comparison is BS. Not because its a narrative but because your naively comparing death rates between a treated disease to a non treated disease. We are at 4x worse comparing the flu with a vaccine, some acquired herd immunity and meds to a virus with none. Whats your best estimate for the flu with neither a vaccine, tamiflu, and xofluza? Historically ~40% (83,600,000) of the adult US population gets the flu vaccine and in 2009 during h1n1 the vaccine was 56% effective. One of the higher effectiveness rates in recent time. Let vaccinate 40% of the US population with a corona vaccine (how about we start with the immunocompromised and nursing home pts) and get 2 meds FDA approved showing efficacy comparable to what we have the flu and see where we are. Whats your best guess there 1.5-2x worse tops? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Influenza_vaccine Like I said I think we are getting close to that. **edit Fauci early on also postulated that HIV could spread via respiratory droplets and other then body fluids making it far more dangerous then it was. Point being I would take all early assumptions with a novel virus with a grain of salt. That article is 2 months old.
KCLarkin Posted May 23, 2020 Posted May 23, 2020 We are at 4x worse comparing the flu with a vaccine, some acquired herd immunity and meds to a virus with none. Even blindly accepting the CDC 4x number, that is the IFR. Given the lack of a vaccine or partial herd immunity, the attack rate would be much higher too. Maybe 4x? So the total mortality would be ~16 times higher? Okay. I understand now. Covid = flu. We just need a vaccine and effective treatments?
StubbleJumper Posted May 23, 2020 Posted May 23, 2020 We are at 4x worse comparing the flu with a vaccine, some acquired herd immunity and meds to a virus with none. In some respects, you are actually being a little generous on this. From an individual's perspective, we are hoping that covid is a "one and done" infection. Whether that is ultimately true remains to be seen, but that's the hope anyway. On the other hand, influenza is a recombinant virus, meaning that it gets a fresh new crack at you every couple of years. So which is worse, a one-time risk of covid or a dozen cases of different strains of influenza over your lifetime? SJ
wescobrk Posted May 23, 2020 Posted May 23, 2020 When the "stimulus" package was passed I posted about why would people go back to work making minimum wage when they can stay home and collect more money at home and watch Netflix. Pelosi said she didn't have any concerns about this and it wouldn't delay people going back to work. This economist says that the bottom 5th of workers make twice as much with this new stimulus bill than going back to work. This will delay people going back to work. Unemployment could be at 7-10% for the next few years without a very robust vaccine. pretty fascinating how many permanent changes will come from this such as permanent remote workers being announced at Spotify, Facebook, Twitter and others. Finally the medical industry will be more efficient. Why the fuck are people driving to a medical office to get a refill on their prescription or ask a question to their dr when they can just do a zoom video? This will finally make the medical industry part of the 21st century.
Gregmal Posted May 23, 2020 Posted May 23, 2020 Its all intentional. As I said in the other thread, the left has gotten so mad and full of TDS that they are full throttle trying to destroy the economy just to get rid of Trump. Of course, most of them are in cash and bonds...preserving "their" interests while doing everything they can to destroy those of the American people, and further, making a full wave of new generations likely dependent upon the government. Its disgusting
dwy000 Posted May 23, 2020 Posted May 23, 2020 The stimulus package was approved by both the Senate and the President. Any new stimulus package will be the same. Hard to see this as a Democrat initiative when 2 out of the 3 approves are Republican.
vinod1 Posted May 23, 2020 Posted May 23, 2020 Its all intentional. As I said in the other thread, the left has gotten so mad and full of TDS that they are full throttle trying to destroy the economy just to get rid of Trump. Of course, most of them are in cash and bonds...preserving "their" interests while doing everything they can to destroy those of the American people, and further, making a full wave of new generations likely dependent upon the government. Its disgusting I hope you really do not believe what you are writing. You are far too thoughtful and intelligent person for that. I am sure they are nut jobs on both left and the right, but the vast majority of the people of either party just want to do what is best for economy. They are just coming from different angles and I can see the logic in both. For these vast majority if you give them an option of getting rid of the virus and economy getting back to normal on the condition that the party they oppose would win the elections for President, Congress and Senate, they would take that option in a heartbeat. I was in the camp of leaning to vote for Trump (60/40) by end of January. Because on the whole, despite so many negative things, he did get one major critical priority right: confronting China, trying to get back some of the manufacturing back to US, etc. To me his actions since start of March are absolutely unacceptable. I can see both views of keeping an economy open and shutting down. And neither is a simple obvious choice. Pros and cons to both. But once you make a decision, you should proceed forward with that. Look at what Trump has done. He is both for and against lockdowns. What kind of message does that send to people? Fed should have been the primary entity in trying to get PPE and other medical equipment and then distributing to the states. It makes so much sense. We should have had a massive program like the Apollo mission to try to produce PPE in massive quantities once he declared an emergency on March 13. Say being able to deliver a bunch of masks for every family every week. Sanitizing stations every street corner, testing at a massive scale, etc. He defanged CDC and drug approvals at FDA are politicized. It is not that Trump is evil, he is just plain incompetent for this situation. Almost any past President of either party would have done so much better. Just look at Amazon. Read the annual letter if you have not. That is how competent people with power would behave. There are lots of things which are shades of grey and it is difficult to say right or wrong except in hindsight. This is not the case with Trump's actions during the Covid period. They are simply idiotic. People who cannot see that are being blinded by hate towards the other party. It is precisely what you are complaining about with TDS. Vinod
cubsfan Posted May 23, 2020 Posted May 23, 2020 Its all intentional. As I said in the other thread, the left has gotten so mad and full of TDS that they are full throttle trying to destroy the economy just to get rid of Trump. Of course, most of them are in cash and bonds...preserving "their" interests while doing everything they can to destroy those of the American people, and further, making a full wave of new generations likely dependent upon the government. Its disgusting I hope you really do not believe what you are writing. You are far too thoughtful and intelligent person for that. I am sure they are nut jobs on both left and the right, but the vast majority of the people of either party just want to do what is best for economy. They are just coming from different angles and I can see the logic in both. For these vast majority if you give them an option of getting rid of the virus and economy getting back to normal on the condition that the party they oppose would win the elections for President, Congress and Senate, they would take that option in a heartbeat. I was in the camp of leaning to vote for Trump (60/40) by end of January. Because on the whole, despite so many negative things, he did get one major critical priority right: confronting China, trying to get back some of the manufacturing back to US, etc. To me his actions since start of March are absolutely unacceptable. I can see both views of keeping an economy open and shutting down. And neither is a simple obvious choice. Pros and cons to both. But once you make a decision, you should proceed forward with that. Look at what Trump has done. He is both for and against lockdowns. What kind of message does that send to people? Fed should have been the primary entity in trying to get PPE and other medical equipment and then distributing to the states. It makes so much sense. We should have had a massive program like the Apollo mission to try to produce PPE in massive quantities once he declared an emergency on March 13. Say being able to deliver a bunch of masks for every family every week. Sanitizing stations every street corner, testing at a massive scale, etc. He defanged CDC and drug approvals at FDA are politicized. It is not that Trump is evil, he is just plain incompetent for this situation. Almost any past President of either party would have done so much better. Just look at Amazon. Read the annual letter if you have not. That is how competent people with power would behave. There are lots of things which are shades of grey and it is difficult to say right or wrong except in hindsight. This is not the case with Trump's actions during the Covid period. They are simply idiotic. People who cannot see that are being blinded by hate towards the other party. It is precisely what you are complaining about with TDS. Vinod Boy, oh, boy - if you believe that bullshit - you must really hate Cuomo and DeBlasio - considering they are responsible for so many deaths with their catastrophic decisions to jam the elderly sick into nursing homes.... And of course, idiot Joe Biden, Pelosi, Schumer wanted nothing to do with travel bans..... let's just let 'em in from China and Europe.
Jurgis Posted May 23, 2020 Posted May 23, 2020 Indiegogo project for reusable N99 masks: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/lmp-s2-reusable-protective-face-mask#/ Cautionary notes: This is not buying a mask - the project may fail. I have had both positive and negative experiences with kickstarter and indiegogo. Shipping to US is extra.
ERICOPOLY Posted May 23, 2020 Posted May 23, 2020 The angry haters are back smearing and swearing. Ha ha. The irony of it all. There's no self awareness.
Gregmal Posted May 23, 2020 Posted May 23, 2020 The stimulus package was approved by both the Senate and the President. Any new stimulus package will be the same. Hard to see this as a Democrat initiative when 2 out of the 3 approves are Republican. You will NEED stimulus to keep the economy afloat with everything shut down. So sure, its common sense and bipartisan. But when you have a rabid media controlling the narrative and big city governors mandating lockdowns/stay at home orders and refusing to let businesses open...thats where the game is being played. Theres still people apparently out there, shocked, and mentally scarred by headlines like "worst "insert data" since the Depression". Well, no shit. Thats what happens when you more or less make it illegal for businesses to operate and people to go out. While you're at it, shut the power line to your house. Then try to turn the light on. Then go be all exasperated and devastated because, "OMG we've never not had ALL the light switches in the house not working like this!". The solution is pretty straight forward and to the degree its not being implemented one can only deduce its deliberate. Its actually quite funny, these are the same folks who were whining about locking people in cages....now we're basically doing the same to law abiding citizens.
RichardGibbons Posted May 23, 2020 Posted May 23, 2020 Its all intentional. As I said in the other thread, the left has gotten so mad and full of TDS that they are full throttle trying to destroy the economy just to get rid of Trump. Of course, most of them are in cash and bonds...preserving "their" interests while doing everything they can to destroy those of the American people, and further, making a full wave of new generations likely dependent upon the government. Its disgusting I love that you didn't include a period at the end of this rant. It adds imagery of your face turning red, spittle flying everywhere. You're so furious at those damn liberals that Fox tells you are ruining the world that words and more words just need to spew out.
cubsfan Posted May 23, 2020 Posted May 23, 2020 [ Its actually quite funny, these are the same folks who were whining about locking people in cages....now we're basically doing the same to law abiding citizens. Good point. And to think, they were the ones originally locking the kids up during the Obama administration, until they got caught!
cubsfan Posted May 23, 2020 Posted May 23, 2020 I love that you didn't include a period at the end of this rant. It adds imagery of your face turning red, spittle flying everywhere. You're so furious at those damn liberals that Fox tells you are ruining the world that words and more words just need to spew out. Actually, it's more hilarious than anything. To watch this party destroy itself - they don't need our help - just watch the Primary debates to see what a joke the party has become. The MVP for Trump's re-election campaign is the LEFT!
ERICOPOLY Posted May 23, 2020 Posted May 23, 2020 While you're at it, shut the power line to your house. Then try to turn the light on. But the travel ban saved lives! So many lives! Huh, what airlines bailed out? Where? Now we have some extra lives to spare when we open the churches for no economic gain!
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