How old are you?

[Irv72]

I would advise my kids to become dentists rather than medical doctors.

Obamacare has destroyed non-corporate medicine in this country. A medical degree nowadays is just a ticket to a blue collar assembly line job.

Edited July 31 by Irv72

[boilermaker75]

On 12/23/2013 at 7:17 AM, boilermaker75 said:

I'm 60, but I feel like I did when I was 30. I have always worked out an hour every day.

 

With this thread becoming active again, I found this post of mine.

 

"..and then one day you find ten years have got behind you," Pink Floyd.

Edited July 31 by boilermaker75

[Irv72]

2 minutes ago, boilermaker75 said:

 

With this thread becoming active again, I found this post of mine.

 

"..and then one day you find ten years have got behind you," Roger Waters.

And then one day you find out that Roger Waters is a neo-nazi, and his name should be forgotten.

[Gregmal]

1 hour ago, LC said:

 

Not sure what flavor of MD but doctors have some of the best prospects amongst the professions - from great financing deals (my ex was getting offers 0% down market rate 30 year mortgage deals), the ability to write off so many "expenses", inflation+ pricing power... doctors complain about having 300k in student debt but tell me what other profession can buy a home, have 2 nice cars 2 well educated kids, great financing and retirement options available, all while easily handling 300k of personal debt? 

 

And they can pick up and move somewhere anywhere to hit some untapped demand, start a practice, and rake it in. I know a guy who was an ER doc, started an urgent care in a mountain town - bought the building, eventually sold the urgent care biz to a University...rakes in 50K+/month just leasing the building to his old business. 

 

A doctor with a business mind can do really well in this country. 

 

I think also the situation around tradesmen is not as great as it was 2 years ago. It's still possible to do well but simply less real estate activity is naturally going to dampen activity for builds & renovations.

He’s a dermatologist and just wasted the core of his 20s and early 30s being a slave to the institution. AND all he has to show for it is tons of student loans. You couldn’t PAY me to do that. 
 

And yes, as mentioned in the following post, the MD world has changed drastically the last decade.

[Eldad]

30 minutes ago, thepupil said:

I went to a top 10 school. my fraternity brothers (all about 35 now)

 

quant trader

Restructuring lawyer

VC *2

Equity research consultant

dentist * 2

pain medicine doctor 

senior person at asset manager

founder w/ decent exit to FAANG, started 2-3 companies so far 

wanderer (w/ varying degrees of employment)

teacher

don't know

big law

engineer @ defense company

executive at railroad

med tech executive

CEO small software co

non-profit stuff / development

mgt consultant at MBB *2

 

now lots of these people would have been successful if they went to public school and plenty had lots of family connections / help, but it's tough for me to conclude the money our families spent on education was a waste.

 

most of the above, except for the engineers have "useless" liberal arts degrees.

 

I'd struggle to find someone making less than $400K (exception: teacher/nonprofit folks) and there are a few nice right tail outcomes as well. most are doing what they wanted to do or at the very least making a lot of $$$ in prep to do what they want to do. 

 

my school cost about $320K now for 4 years. we don't live in a meritocracy and the network / opportunities offered by elite education have significant value. maybe it won't always be like that, but it's hard to undo 300-400+ years of precedent. it's not necessary to succeed, but the base rate for success seems quite high based on my anecdata and objective rankings of schools w/ median income at 10 years after graduation.

 

and it's practically free for families making <$100K at this point. <$150K at the best schools. so from my standpoint, most people who get in, should go. some edge cases (like say someone whose family makes $200K, but doesn't have a lot of savings and the person knows they want to be something where the network/branding/etc is of little value). but if family makes $700K or $100K, then I'd say that person should still go. 

 

pls excuse the poor writing/punctuation, wrote this quickly b/w stuff.

I went to an expensive east coast school and then moved back to my somewhat small, backward, good ole boy state. 
 

My college buddies mainly live in big cities and have large incomes but are not wealthy for the most part. 
 

My high school buddies all went to the state school and are fraternity brothers with a member of every wealthy family in every town in the state. I would say their network has yielded more fruit and many of them have used it to become actually wealthy. 
 

Just another perspective. I will be encouraging my kids to pick the state school with a full ride. 
 

Edited July 31 by Eldad

[cubsfan]

1 hour ago, 73 Reds said:

Wait till your kids get into college.  You may have to deprogram them after they complete their coursework.  My kids would sit in class and just shake their heads at some of the nonsense being thrown at them.  I seriously question the value of a liberal arts degree today and would like to think that if it were me, I'd opt for trade school.  

 

Ha!   You need to get lucky after you drop them off - and hope they don't scream at you about why you are celebrating Thanksgiving and oppressing native populations. My alma mata does an apology to the local native peoples every convocation 3X per year.

 

I graduated with a liberal arts degree but wouldn't waste my time today. The hard sciences and math are great places to be. But now a days all you have to do is watch TV all day long and you'll come out the same as these liberal arts or "studies" majors.

[thepupil]

7 minutes ago, Eldad said:

I went to an expensive east coast school and then moved back to my somewhat small, backward, good ole boy state. 
 

My college buddies mainly live in big cities and have large incomes but are not wealthy for the most part. 
 

My high school buddies all went to the state school and are fraternity brothers with a member of every wealthy family in every town in the state. I would say their network has yielded more fruit and many of them have used it to become actually wealthy. 
 

Just another perspective. I will be encouraging my kids to pick the state school with a full ride. 
 

fair counterpoint, definitely know some folks who fit this narrative.

 

real takeaway is that drinking a lot in college leads to strong professional outcomes 

Edited July 31 by thepupil

[73 Reds]

2 minutes ago, cubsfan said:

 

Ha!   You need to get lucky after you drop them off - and hope they don't scream at you about why you are celebrating Thanksgiving and oppressing native populations. My alma mata does an apology to the local native peoples every convocation 3X per year.

 

I graduated with a liberal arts degree but wouldn't waste my time today. The hard sciences and math are great places to be. But now a days all you have to do is watch TV all day long and you'll come out the same as these liberal arts or "studies" majors.

My daughter's alma mater now has a mandatory course in DEI.  Mind you, tuition is $65k/year.  I'd refuse to pay for those so-called credits.   

[Eldad]

2 minutes ago, thepupil said:

fair counterpoint, definitely know some folks who fit this narrative.

 

real takeaway is that drinking a lot in college leads to strong professional outcomes 

Haha yes. The difference is probably at the super elite level and obviously depends on the person. Is your goal world domination or a fairly big fish in a small pond. Ivy League still clearly has the edge for the right type of person looking for world domination. 

[boilermaker75]

24 minutes ago, 73 Reds said:

My daughter's alma mater now has a mandatory course in DEI.  Mind you, tuition is $65k/year.  I'd refuse to pay for those so-called credits.   

 

I was in our undergraduate advising office the other day talking to one of the advisors.

 

Students usually make appointments to see their advisors, but they also have "walk-in" hours in case someone can't wait for an appointment.

 

They were told they cannot use the term "walk-in" anymore because it is a micro-aggression.

[boilermaker75]

43 minutes ago, Irv72 said:

And then one day you find out that Roger Waters is a neo-nazi, and his name should be forgotten.

 

Done.

[Irv72]

50 minutes ago, Gregmal said:

He’s a dermatologist and just wasted the core of his 20s and early 30s being a slave to the institution. AND all he has to show for it is tons of student loans. You couldn’t PAY me to do that. 
 

And yes, as mentioned in the following post, the MD world has changed drastically the last decade.

OMG! If a dermatologist can't make it... That used to be the most sought after specialty.

 

We used to joke that they take the best medical school graduates and make them forget everything they studied so hard.

Edited July 31 by Irv72

[73 Reds]

10 minutes ago, boilermaker75 said:

 

I was in our undergraduate advising office the other day talking to one of the advisors.

 

Students usually make appointments to see their advisors, but they also have "walk-in" hours in case someone can't wait for an appointment.

 

They were told they cannot use the term "walk-in" anymore because it is a micro-aggression.

That would put every barber shop in the country out of business.

[james22]

In 2022, 40 percent of all American children were born to single mothers.

 

Black newborns faced a catastrophic 69.3 percent illegitimacy rate, while more than 53 percent of Hispanic children were born to unmarried females.

 

Whites had a 27 percent illegitimacy rate; the rate among the white underclass is twice that. Already in 2016, 59 percent of births to white women who did not finish high school or obtain a GED occurred outside of marriage.

 

https://www.city-journal.org/article/girling-the-boy-scouts

[bargainman]

Can anyone see the results of this poll?  I only see the following

[[Template core/global/global/poll is throwing an error. This theme may be out of date. Run the support tool in the AdminCP to restore the default theme.]]

[Gregmal]

2 hours ago, james22 said:

In 2022, 40 percent of all American children were born to single mothers.

 

Black newborns faced a catastrophic 69.3 percent illegitimacy rate, while more than 53 percent of Hispanic children were born to unmarried females.

 

Whites had a 27 percent illegitimacy rate; the rate among the white underclass is twice that. Already in 2016, 59 percent of births to white women who did not finish high school or obtain a GED occurred outside of marriage.

 

https://www.city-journal.org/article/girling-the-boy-scouts

Numbers are racist which is why we need to stop emphasizing math.

[Spekulatius]

7 hours ago, 73 Reds said:

But even you would acknowledge that you and your frat brothers are, as a group, exceptional.  I'm not arguing that college education is a waste; in fact you can probably get a decent education almost anywhere if you stick with useful curriculum that can help you succeed in life.  From my vantage point, colleges and universities offer all too many "degrees" and pathways that tend to lead nowhere without proper values or guidance.  

The top schools are not about the education, it’s about the prestige and the connections. you get that you won’t get at a state college.

The problem is when the family income $200-300K and don’t get a good ride. Then the cost of the top schools can be daunting.

[boilermaker75]

49 minutes ago, Spekulatius said:

The top schools are not about the education, it’s about the prestige and the connections. you get that you won’t get at a state college.

The problem is when the family income $200-300K and don’t get a good ride. Then the cost of the top schools can be daunting.

 

I tend to agree the connections you make in college can be a big factor.

 

But here is a study from a highly selective top-ranked university that is interesting about what in college is important for "success,"

 

https://ed.stanford.edu/sites/default/files/challenge_success_white_paper_on_college_admissions_10.1.2018-reduced.pdf

[Spekulatius]

41 minutes ago, boilermaker75 said:

 

I tend to agree the connections you make in college can be a big factor.

 

But here is a study from a highly selective top-ranked university that is interesting about what in college is important for "success,"

 

https://ed.stanford.edu/sites/default/files/challenge_success_white_paper_on_college_admissions_10.1.2018-reduced.pdf

Some of these factors are confounded. For example, I bet it will be much easier to find a great internship if you study at MIT or Stanford than from a state folge. The colleges also have stats about the income of the alumni and they show that the Ivy League alumni have much higher income than students from lesser ranked schools.

 

I do agree that engagement is what really matters but I think that’s partly what those top schools are about - they offer more ways for student to be engaged in ways that are harder to accomplish then for students  from other schools.

FWIW, my son is going to a state college (Umass) and fairly happy there. He did not get in one of the top schools and we decided that other schools especially  out of state schools are not worth the much higher tuition and cost relative to a pretty decent state college. We are also in an income bracket where we would have to pay full tuition. 

[boilermaker75]

@Spekulatius That is great your son is having a good college experience. Being engaged in college can really be a life changing time.

[ICUMD]

18 hours ago, Irv72 said:

OMG! If a dermatologist can't make it... That used to be the most sought after specialty.

 

We used to joke that they take the best medical school graduates and make them forget everything they studied so hard.

Likely a lot of personal factors for that person. Regardless of what one earns, it can always be outspent or mismanaged. Also, having a degree or skill doesn't equate to using that degree to it's full potential.  

[texual]

Mid 30's physician. Disagree on the posts about our profession being somehow eroded - Medscape and all measures of income, growth and demand are across the board up, and continuing to project that trend. I've never heard of a physician worse off 3-5-7 years after graduating residency. But your milage can vary. Blue collar assembly line job? Is there any more detail to where this comes from?

 

I worked both in hospitals and state facilities, W2, now 1099. I now command my own hours and pay. I use an LLC. I've got more business sense than my peers - but for the most part I don't know anyone who would believe they're not well compensated for their work.

[james22]

1 hour ago, texual said:

Mid 30's physician. Disagree on the posts about our profession being somehow eroded . . .

 

I don't know anyone who would believe they're not well compensated for their work.

 

Docs do well compared to their age cohort still, sure, but not as well as previous generations of docs did.

[ICUMD]

9 minutes ago, james22 said:

 

Docs do well compared to their age cohort still, sure, but not as well as previous generations of docs did.

Value of primary care (Family) physicians being eroded in Canada. Nurse practitioners and pharmacists now diagnosing and prescribing. Ironically,  MDs are bound to a government set fee schedule for remuneration while RN practitioners and pharmacists can bill patients privately. 

 

 

[whatstheofficerproblem]

On 7/31/2024 at 8:11 PM, Spekulatius said:

For example, I bet it will be much easier to find a great internship if you study at MIT or Stanford than from a state folge.

 

On the money, this also depends on what field you're going into. Might as well give up on a career in high finance if you go to a state school, tech and most core engineering jobs on the other hand will welcome state school students with open arms. UMass like you mention is a good state college, places well across fields.

 

The primary reason, from my observation, for state schools to be bad pipelines is because the alumni at state schools very rarely give back. This is not the case with legacy institutions where your alumni bend over backwards for you if you network with them.