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randomep
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Hi all,

I just turned 50 and work in chip design in the US. Wife but no kids and don't
plan on it.  I am financially comfortable but yearn for more.  I am at lost for
direction and was reading some threads and it dawned on me there are many here
who are over 50 with lots of life and financial experience.  So I'd like to
start this thread to get advice and anecdotal experiences from you older folks.

My first question concerns career path. So I have worked continuously in the  
same area, which happens to be very hot right now.  I am still technical but it  
has been several years since I really did any big coding tasks. I mostly direct
young guys who are a few years out of school.  I am not high up on the totem  
pole, mostly just a technical lead.  So my question is how long can I carry on
like this?  There aren't a lot of 50 yr olds doing technical work.  I see
mostly people my age are in high level management or as technical architects or
they are barely scraping by and close to obsolesce.  At my age it seems like
you either soar or crash and burn.  Although I seem to be the exception.  Also
I wonder about my cognitive skills, I can do this in my 50s, but 60? I
seriously doubt it.

My second question is about financial health. I presume if you are here and  
over 50 you are probably reasonably well off, so when did you make the most yoy
percentage gain? Was it early in life like in your 30s and 40s when it was a
lot easier to compound money? or could it be later when you got better
financial acumen?

any comments great appreciated in advance




 

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5 hours ago, randomep said:


Hi all,

I just turned 50 and work in chip design in the US. Wife but no kids and don't
plan on it.  I am financially comfortable but yearn for more.  I am at lost for
direction and was reading some threads and it dawned on me there are many here
who are over 50 with lots of life and financial experience.  So I'd like to
start this thread to get advice and anecdotal experiences from you older folks.

My first question concerns career path. So I have worked continuously in the  
same area, which happens to be very hot right now.  I am still technical but it  
has been several years since I really did any big coding tasks. I mostly direct
young guys who are a few years out of school.  I am not high up on the totem  
pole, mostly just a technical lead.  So my question is how long can I carry on
like this?  There aren't a lot of 50 yr olds doing technical work.  I see
mostly people my age are in high level management or as technical architects or
they are barely scraping by and close to obsolesce.  At my age it seems like
you either soar or crash and burn.  Although I seem to be the exception.  Also
I wonder about my cognitive skills, I can do this in my 50s, but 60? I
seriously doubt it.

My second question is about financial health. I presume if you are here and  
over 50 you are probably reasonably well off, so when did you make the most yoy
percentage gain? Was it early in life like in your 30s and 40s when it was a
lot easier to compound money? or could it be later when you got better
financial acumen?

any comments great appreciated in advance




 

 

Not much older than you at 52, but I'll try to relate some of what I'm going through.  

 

If you find that you love the technical work you do, don't let age constrain you.  Like a good athlete, you'll know when your skills are truly diminished.  If you think that there are other things you want to explore, then this is probably the time to do it.  Theoretically, you'll live to 80 or so...so this is essentially the 2nd 30 year period you will get after reaching adulthood.  If you can afford it financially, go for it!  You don't have kids...your wife at this point has her own interests and friendships...nothing is holding you back.

 

In terms of when it was easier to make money...it's never been easy!  When you are younger, you have less to compound and it takes forever to save it.  When you are older, the amount compounds faster, but the time seems far less to grow it.  The economy has always been volatile, but opportunities always do present themselves.  Patience is what is needed.

 

Lastly, something you didn't ask about, but I would recommend you consider more and more...your health.  My last few years have been very challenging.  When we work hard, we always take our health for granted, and ignore the time that needs to be allocated to maintain it.  Health deterioration can come fast and furiously, beating you up faster than you would have ever imagined.  So prioritize it if you want to hit that 80 mark!  Cheers!

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You can do it when you are 60, or even 70 or 80.

 

I am 69 and I don’t feel I have lost any cognitive abilities. I have older colleagues who have maintained the size and success of their research programs.

 

Your brain is 2% of your bodies’ mass but utilizes 20% of the oxygen you breath and the food you consume. What you do for your bodies’ health is even more critical for your brain.

 

MRI scans show that the brain of someone who spent their life on a typical Western diet has suffered much more brain atrophy than someone who instead was on a Mediterranean diet. (L. Mosconi, et. al., "Mediterranean Diet and Magnetic Resonance Imaging-Assessed Brain Atrophy in Cognitively Normal Individuals at Risk for Alzheimer's Disease," Journal of Prevention of Alzheimer's Disease, vol. 1, pp. 23-32, 2014.)

 

I would suggest the MIND (Mediterranean-DASH Intervention for Neurodegenerative Delay) diet developed at Rush University Medical Center.

 

Similarly exercise is very important. Every 7 minutes your entire volume of blood flows through your brain. Exercise not only improves the circuilatory system in your body, but also in your brain for delivering that oxygen and fuel. But something else really important occurs during exercise. Your muscles excrete compounds called myokines (hundreds of them) such as brain derived neurotropic factor (BDNF), vascular endothelial growth factor (VEGF), and insulin-like growth factor 1 (IGF-1).

 

BDNF is like fertilizer for the brain. It promotes neuroplasticity, something that happens when you are learning. Neurons are born everyday in a region of your brain called the hippocampus. The hippocampus is very important region for formation of explicit memories. BDNF is required for the survival of these new neurons, along with actually using those new neurons. Use them or lose them.

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I am in my mid fifties and doing similar works to yours, but in a different area. I think I easily can do this into the mid sixties, if I have to or feel like it. I agree with @boilermaker75 suggestion to keep fit. When you get into the fifties, health issue usually start to occur in many ways and it is important to keep your body healthy.

 

As for investing, I don't really think anything changes, but you just need to be more aware of risk. You can't really afford wipeouts at this point any more.

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14 hours ago, randomep said:


Hi all,

I just turned 50 and work in chip design in the US. Wife but no kids and don't
plan on it.  I am financially comfortable but yearn for more.  I am at lost for
direction and was reading some threads and it dawned on me there are many here
who are over 50 with lots of life and financial experience.  So I'd like to
start this thread to get advice and anecdotal experiences from you older folks.

My first question concerns career path. So I have worked continuously in the  
same area, which happens to be very hot right now.  I am still technical but it  
has been several years since I really did any big coding tasks. I mostly direct
young guys who are a few years out of school.  I am not high up on the totem  
pole, mostly just a technical lead.  So my question is how long can I carry on
like this?  There aren't a lot of 50 yr olds doing technical work.  I see
mostly people my age are in high level management or as technical architects or
they are barely scraping by and close to obsolesce.  At my age it seems like
you either soar or crash and burn.  Although I seem to be the exception.  Also
I wonder about my cognitive skills, I can do this in my 50s, but 60? I
seriously doubt it.

My second question is about financial health. I presume if you are here and  
over 50 you are probably reasonably well off, so when did you make the most yoy
percentage gain? Was it early in life like in your 30s and 40s when it was a
lot easier to compound money? or could it be later when you got better
financial acumen?

any comments great appreciated in advance




 

I am in a similar place as you.   I just turned 50 and I am an ASIC designer.   Unlike you I never wanted to manage anyone and have been doing only design my entire career.  I work at a fairly large company and know people who are still designing into their 60s and even 70s on a purely technical career track.  I have no plans to do anything else.  Good advice above about health and fitness.  I don't think cognitive decline in your 60s is a forgone conclusion, at least I hope it isn't.   As for your 2nd question, I've had great years investing in every decade of my life since my 20s and bad years as well.   My best year ever was 2021 at age 49.    I don't understand your comment about it being easier to compound money in your 30s?   I have 2 children (in their 20s now) who took a lot of my time (and money) when I was in my 30s, so if anything I have more time to dedicate to reading/investing now than I ever have in the past and more money to invest than I ever had in the past.

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Technical people are subject to product life cycle. Technical skills get progressively obsolete as new things emerge; but the cycle can be extended by adding new technical expertise (maintenance capex, and/or 'managing' vs doing). There is always someone cheaper than you that can do the required tasks, and we shop the world to find them. The job pays $X for the skill-set, that is it; if you bring more to it, good for you - but you aren't getting paid for it. Your 'best' solution is to move on. 

 

'Life' progress is driven primarily by maturity and ongoing ability to reinvent - if you have kids, reinvention occurs everyday; without kids .... you need to systematically make it. Those who have had to flee countries at some point, and rapidly think on their feet, have an advantage; they matured very quickly, and had to learn how to adapt in hostile conditions.  For the successful, ongoing reinvention became as natural as breathing, and almost always they also had good people skills, and ideally a high EQ as well. 

 

In my early investment years I was utterly useless, lost my shirt multiple times over, and fought both everybody and everything. I was told multiple times that I would be a lot smarter to just give my money to someone else to manage, 'cause I was truly sh1te!. Once financial maturity finally caught up, returns caught up, and now they are routinely very good; however, CAGR since inception suffers a very large drag from all those early losses!

 

Everyone is different. It wasn't until I became familiar with Nash Game Theory, CFA 'dogma', and Nassim Talebs various risk management books, that a unifying investment model fell into place. Until then I had many of the parts, and I had come to them on my own, but it was slow going.

 

Strong in technical is a great start, and can take you a long way, but that's all it is.

Longevity lies in the soft skills, and ability to act on them.

 

SD

 

Edited by SharperDingaan
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68 and I can tell you there is ever-increasing processing decline going on with me.  I am physically fit, will compete in the USA Cycling 60-and-over mountain bike national championships this year probably for the last time.  So I have game here, I'm in the thick of it.

 

I helped write along with 5 others a 20 page document in the late 1990's that we titled, "The 12 Ways GE Misleads Investors."  Basically a presentation on the corruption of Jack Welch's accounting which all of us today consider the largest financial fraud in US history.  We all spent hundreds of hours on this work.

 

Today?  Not a snowballs chance in hell I could energy-up or think enough to do what I did with the GE report.  I also don't pull the family kids behind the wakeboard or ski boats any longer (I do pull my wife) because there is too much stimulation and I'm not quick enough to process it all.

 

So yes decline is inevitable, but in my case I just don't quit...I constantly modify and yes I reduce all things slowly but surely.  But I own 300 stocks and one of the reasons I do this is to keep up with life's happenings.  I also watch Jim Cramer a couple times and week, my wife and I enjoy that.  No, not for stock tips but to keep up with the new era businesses and such.

 

Live long and participate is one nearly 100% way to do well in the market of stocks, actually you'll likely do very well, in the stock market.  This model does have a pretty good size following- diversify and hold- but you won't read much online about it...you won't find many that promote it.  There's no reward or low fees involved- you can't build ego with it with others-  so it isn't going to be presented and sold by too many.  But it works astoundingly well.  My parents died in 1969 and 1975, I have several 100 bagger stocks from the small inheritance I received.   I own some Norfolk Southern stock, I got a tiny bit my grandfather bought.  It passed through my grandmother, my dad, then me.  I think it is 81 years now in the family...maybe 82.  My CPA friend who is into compounding figures says we've gotten 11% annual over that 80 plus years. 

 

Life is great if you can stand it.  Rambling some.

Edited by dealraker
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20 hours ago, Parsad said:

 

Not much older than you at 52, but I'll try to relate some of what I'm going through.  

 

If you find that you love the technical work you do, don't let age constrain you.  Like a good athlete, you'll know when your skills are truly diminished.  If you think that there are other things you want to explore, then this is probably the time to do it.  Theoretically, you'll live to 80 or so...so this is essentially the 2nd 30 year period you will get after reaching adulthood.  If you can afford it financially, go for it!  You don't have kids...your wife at this point has her own interests and friendships...nothing is holding you back.

 

In terms of when it was easier to make money...it's never been easy!  When you are younger, you have less to compound and it takes forever to save it.  When you are older, the amount compounds faster, but the time seems far less to grow it.  The economy has always been volatile, but opportunities always do present themselves.  Patience is what is needed.

 

Lastly, something you didn't ask about, but I would recommend you consider more and more...your health.  My last few years have been very challenging.  When we work hard, we always take our health for granted, and ignore the time that needs to be allocated to maintain it.  Health deterioration can come fast and furiously, beating you up faster than you would have ever imagined.  So prioritize it if you want to hit that 80 mark!  Cheers!

 

I agree with all your points, I'll know when it's time to hang up the gloves which doesn't appear to be anytime soon.... and ya, I cannot control the externals like my industry or my work environment but I definitely should do whatever possible to maintain my best health to be able see some "ultimate" achievement in my career.

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16 hours ago, boilermaker75 said:

 

 

 

BDNF is like fertilizer for the brain. It promotes neuroplasticity, something that happens when you are learning. Neurons are born everyday in a region of your brain called the hippocampus. The hippocampus is very important region for formation of explicit memories. BDNF is required for the survival of these new neurons, along with actually using those new neurons. Use them or lose them.

I'll look into that mediterrainean diet, and I am already trying the exercise thing but will increase my regimen as that is the thing i can control the most.

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11 hours ago, dealraker said:

 

Live long and participate is one nearly 100% way to do well in the market of stocks, actually you'll likely do very well, in the stock market.  This model does have a pretty good size following- diversify and hold- but you won't read much online about it...you won't find many that promote it.  There's no reward or low fees involved- you can't build ego with it with others-  so it isn't going to be presented and sold by too many.  But it works astoundingly well.  My parents died in 1969 and 1975, I have several 100 bagger stocks from the small inheritance I received.   I own some Norfolk Southern stock, I got a tiny bit my grandfather bought.  It passed through my grandmother, my dad, then me.  I think it is 81 years now in the family...maybe 82.  My CPA friend who is into compounding figures says we've gotten 11% annual over that 80 plus years. 

 

Life is great if you can stand it.  Rambling some.

 

wow 11% over 80+ years, by the rule of 72, you are up 2048 in those 80 years. If you started with 10k you are at 20mil today, or maybe you started with more. And sure there are many others here with just as much, as I saw from a survey post a while back.

 

But ya I have come to the conclusion also that  the easiest way for a diy investor to manage a big personal portfolio over a lifetime it is best just to accumulate and hold..... FOREVER!  I learned the hard way but will no longer consider 5 years average holding period and 20% annual turnover as long term investing, 10 years is a minimum!

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11 minutes ago, randomep said:

I'll look into that mediterrainean diet, and I am already trying the exercise thing but will increase my regimen as that is the thing i can control the most.

Great suggestions on this discussion.   I'd also recommend not to stress too much about things that 'could happen'.  It's a rabbit hole that has no end. 

 

Rather, count your luck. Make good 'in the moment' decisions and try to maintain a balanced healthy lifestyle.  The rest is really out of your control.  

 

May we all be so lucky to live as long and strong as Buffet and Munger.

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12 hours ago, rkbabang said:

I am in a similar place as you.   I just turned 50 and I am an ASIC designer.   Unlike you I never wanted to manage anyone and have been doing only design my entire career.  I work at a fairly large company and know people who are still designing into their 60s and even 70s on a purely technical career track.  I have no plans to do anything else.  Good advice above about health and fitness.  I don't think cognitive decline in your 60s is a forgone conclusion, at least I hope it isn't.   As for your 2nd question, I've had great years investing in every decade of my life since my 20s and bad years as well.   My best year ever was 2021 at age 49.    I don't understand your comment about it being easier to compound money in your 30s?   I have 2 children (in their 20s now) who took a lot of my time (and money) when I was in my 30s, so if anything I have more time to dedicate to reading/investing now than I ever have in the past and more money to invest than I ever had in the past.

 

ASIC verification here.  That's good to know designers still doing their trade over 60 although in my 25yr experience I can only recall 2 or 3.

 

My point about a life of investing is that when you are young you can have all your net worth in your retirement account and cash account and you go can go all in on growth stocks.  When you are near retirement you are supposed to take less risk and your accumulated is more spread out, like in maybe businesses, home equity and stocks etc.

 

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Check out the two interviews Tim Ferriss did with Edward Thorp this year.  Thorp is 90, yet looks 60 and has reinvented himself multiple times.  Lots of topics are covered, including aging, investing and as an added bonus a few Buffett anecdotes.

 

I prefer transcripts, so here are the links:

 

https://tim.blog/2022/05/28/ed-thorp-transcript/

 

https://tim.blog/2022/06/30/edward-o-thorp-2-transcript/

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I work for a 200 employee engineering company.  Mostly electrical engineers.

 

Over half of our retirees are/were non-managers.  I hate to lose our technical staff to retirement… how cruel that people get to retire when they have the most wisdom and experience.

 

I believe the non-managers are happier than the managers.  Lower stress, often taking time off for surfing/biking/etc.

 

 

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As far as health and diet?  A guy named Marshall Johnson who ran the stock broker firm McDaniel Lewis and Company out of Greensboro NC put every client who was willing into Berkshire stock.  This was the late 1970's.

 

Many in my family, a bunch of very stable and reasonable people, chose somewhere along the line to go "diet perfect" or what I would call "diet latest trend for longevity" and such.  The tendency is to switch up some along the way, new things come and obsessions go there...the text messages and emails flow while meals together get either delicate or downright funny.

 

So too much money (Marshall helped a bunch of his clients get there compared to most people) and too much free time (which comes with the money) means a trend towards going psycho.  Skinner maybe?

 

Then more age comes, same ole health problems come for the diet perfect bunch and...

 

...things wane, there's less diet intensity.  Also had a few do the extreme religion thing, or extreme exercise (that's me!) thing.  Age just ravages all the life perfect themes.

 

What I would do?  Don't get fat!  Don't drink too much...but drink!  Don't smoke of course.  And go to the damn doctor.  Yep do all the life perfect themes, diet, exercise, religion, whatever.... but be modest and accept that long life is science based and genetic for the most part.   Again as my cousin says, "Life at best is like a slow airplane crash....you may as well enjoy the ride."

Edited by dealraker
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On 10/19/2022 at 7:17 AM, SharperDingaan said:

Technical people are subject to product life cycle. Technical skills get progressively obsolete as new things emerge; but the cycle can be extended by adding new technical expertise (maintenance capex, and/or 'managing' vs doing). There is always someone cheaper than you that can do the required tasks, and we shop the world to find them. The job pays $X for the skill-set, that is it; if you bring more to it, good for you - but you aren't getting paid for it. Your 'best' solution is to move on. 

 

 

 

 

What do you mean by this? are you saying that engineers and gp doctors will only get paid a fixed rate, and there is no point in performing exceptionally cos you don't get paid for it?

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On 10/20/2022 at 10:26 AM, randomep said:

What do you mean by this? are you saying that engineers and gp doctors will only get paid a fixed rate, and there is no point in performing exceptionally cos you don't get paid for it?

 

A job is worth $X, and the employer fills it as best as they are able. If the job is not client facing, the employer will explore trying to offshore it at a lower cost. If the job is client facing, the employer will explore trying to fill it with the minimum skill/experience mix at lower cost.

 

As the employee, you have the skill set, and accumulating on-the-job experience. However, in most cases, the most the employer can incrementally pay you year over year is some % of the annual inflation increase. But after 3-4 years it will be cheaper/healthier/smarter for the employer to simply replace you entirely - with a new person who doesn't have the on-the-job experience that you have accumulated. Creating cost savings, promotion opportunities, 'fresher' workforce, etc. - rational.

 

If the employee brings to the job more than is required, that's great, but he/she will not be paid for it. That 'extra' got you the job instead, as you were selected over all the others who also had the job requirements, but not the 'extra' you bring with you. The pay for that 'extra' is 'better marketability', and it is to the employee to capitalize on that. However, the job itself will pay $X - nothing more.

 

Example: In academia, a course instructor is often a PhD student, guaranteed a minimum number of courses to teach. The pay/course ($X) is typically the pay for a full-time assistant professor divided over the annual expected teaching load, adjusted for benefits. Whether taught by a PhD student with little/no teaching experience, or a retired professional with multiple designations and years of industry/teaching experience, the pay/course ($X) is the same. The professional gets rewarded via his/her 'better marketability' instead; and the opportunity to teach multiple courses instead of just one - earning 2x $X, versus just $X plus some% increase.

 

Not what most want to hear.

 

SD  

Edited by SharperDingaan
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The replacing depends on the job. In my area of expertise (loosely related optics) engineers are hard to get - to niche and those that are working tend to be specialized. I bet ASICS and Chip design is the same thing. So if you hire a different engineer, it takes years until they know their way around.

 

In my area, the talent drag from older folks retiring is very real. Then the company hires new engineers from college and while some decide to hang around, I see more than half changing the job after 2 years and the whole training thing starts from scratch.

 

There are many engineering disciples like this. Try material science, chemical engineering, automobile and many others areas that are not flashy but keep the world moving. These areas pay decently but not enough to really attract new young engineers or scientists who are more interest in "tech" or get rich doing something crypto or something along the lines. I can't blame them either.

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On 10/19/2022 at 7:58 PM, CanadianMunger said:

Check out the two interviews Tim Ferriss did with Edward Thorp this year.  Thorp is 90, yet looks 60 and has reinvented himself multiple times.  Lots of topics are covered, including aging, investing and as an added bonus a few Buffett anecdotes.

 

I prefer transcripts, so here are the links:

 

https://tim.blog/2022/05/28/ed-thorp-transcript/

 

https://tim.blog/2022/06/30/edward-o-thorp-2-transcript/

 

thorp is a famous person who never publicizes himself, I've never seen him on TV, would love to.

 

Can you believe that he says he figured out madoff back in 1991?? wow amazing if true!

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1 hour ago, Spekulatius said:

The replacing depends on the job. In my area of expertise (loosely related optics) engineers are hard to get - to niche and those that are working tend to be specialized. I bet ASICS and Chip design is the same thing. So if you hire a different engineer, it takes years until they know their way around.

 

In my area, the talent drag from older folks retiring is very real. Then the company hires new engineers from college and while some decide to hang around, I see more than half changing the job after 2 years and the whole training thing starts from scratch.

 

There are many engineering disciples like this. Try material science, chemical engineering, automobile and many others areas that are not flashy but keep the world moving. These areas pay decently but not enough to really attract new young engineers or scientists who are more interest in "tech" or get rich doing something crypto or something along the lines. I can't blame them either.

 

hi Spek, you and crs223 seem to be both saying that older technical people are valued but they leave anyway, and I suspect for many it is a lifestyle choice, if they invest responsibly like you and I the income from job could no longer be their largest source of income, so why waste whatever good years are left doing the same boring thing they've been doing for 30+ years.

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32 minutes ago, randomep said:

 

hi Spek, you and crs223 seem to be both saying that older technical people are valued but they leave anyway, and I suspect for many it is a lifestyle choice, if they invest responsibly like you and I the income from job could no longer be their largest source of income, so why waste whatever good years are left doing the same boring thing they've been doing for 30+ years.

 

 

Working at a job for an employer for...30 years? 🤢

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1 minute ago, stahleyp said:

 

 

Working at a job for an employer for...30 years? 🤢

 

no i mean doing the same old job for different employers for 30yrs

 

btw I was at the IEH factory floor where I saw a 90+ yr old woman who had been working there since the 1940's, I kid you not!  That's one main reason I still invest in them.....

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50 minutes ago, randomep said:

 

hi Spek, you and crs223 seem to be both saying that older technical people are valued but they leave anyway, and I suspect for many it is a lifestyle choice, if they invest responsibly like you and I the income from job could no longer be their largest source of income, so why waste whatever good years are left doing the same boring thing they've been doing for 30+ years.

Yes, the vast majority technical people leave by choice, not because they have to. The, "let's fire the older guys and hire cheaper college grads" was happening in the 90's and maybe for a short time after the GFC (when college grads were scraping for jobs) but it hasn't been happening for quite some time.

The reason are the high boomer retiring rates (which means persistent losses in tech experience) and the college grads are just not showing up. College grads are not cheap either...

Edited by Spekulatius
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1 hour ago, stahleyp said:

Working at a job for an employer for...30 years? 🤢

 

Ive been at the same job for over 20 years and I think I’ll be here forever.

 

I absolutely love my job.  i lucked out.  how horrible it would be to work for 30 years doing something you don’t love. 🤮

 

Highlights of my job:

- I love the technical work

- Great coworkers

- Company pays all medical expenses, maxes out HSA whether or not you want it ($7k) and maxes out your 401k whether or not you want it (up to fed limit of $60k)

-The best part: employee owned —  we all own the place… and we all work together to minimize costs, make decisions, etc

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