India

[Xerxes]

I heard that the story was coming out from the media, and he wanted to get in front of it. And that he did confront Modi when he was there for G20 but got no traction. 
 

Like I said I am not a fan of Trudeau spewing out his liberal nonsense on anything and interfering in other’ affairs. But I also not a fan of large Asian economic powers using their economic clout and treat Canada as their playground, whenever it pleases them. Saudis pulled the same type of bullshit, and then the Chinese and now Delhi is trying its hand. 
 

Now if Trudeau is just spewing out nonsense, then he needs to be fired by Canadian people. But if it is real and he did the right thing. Enough is enough. 
 

it is also possible that it is real and he just executed poorly or got irked by G20 and getting stuck there or doing it for domestic pow-wow. But then again he is politician. 

[Parsad]

4 hours ago, Xerxes said:

I heard that the story was coming out from the media, and he wanted to get in front of it. And that he did confront Modi when he was there for G20 but got no traction. 
 

Like I said I am not a fan of Trudeau spewing out his liberal nonsense on anything and interfering in other’ affairs. But I also not a fan of large Asian economic powers using their economic clout and treat Canada as their playground, whenever it pleases them. Saudis pulled the same type of bullshit, and then the Chinese and now Delhi is trying its hand. 
 

 

Totally agree with this!  A lot of irregular state-sanctioned behavior occurring in a sovereign nation's jurisdiction...there has to be a response or investigation.  How he handled it is debatable, but something had to be done as well.  Cheers!

[mcliu]

It sounds like Canada was trying to keep this confidential and work the back channels but reporters caught wind and were going to break the story.

Evidence is confidential given the “investigation” but sources have leaked:

 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/sikh-nijjar-india-canada-trudeau-modi-1.6974607
 

The Canadian government has amassed both human and signals intelligence in a months-long investigation of a Sikh activist's death that has inflamed relations with India, sources tell CBC News.

 

That intelligence includes communications involving Indian officials themselves, including Indian diplomats present in Canada, say Canadian government sources.

 

The intelligence did not come solely from Canada. Some was provided by an unnamed ally in the Five Eyes intelligence alliance.

 

Canadian sources say that, when pressed behind closed doors, no Indian official has denied the bombshell allegation at the core of this case — that there is evidence to suggest Indian government involvement in the assassination of a Canadian citizen on Canadian soil.

[Xerxes]

I hate to say it but looks like Ben Watsa coming out on podcast and BNN marked the “top” of the India-Canadian relation 

[Haryana]

Canada MP From Trudeau Party Alleges Khalistani Threats, Attacks On Hindus

https://www.msn.com/en-in/news/other/canada-mp-chandra-arya-claims-khalistan-elements-attacking-and-threatening-hindus/ar-AA1h3Em1

"
Amid the India-Canada diplomatic standoff, Canadian MP Chandra Arya alleged that the extremist elements are "attacking" and "threatening" Hindu-Canadians to go back to India. He has also urged all the Hindu-Canadians in the country to stay calm, and vigilant and report any untoward incident to law enforcement agencies.
Notably, Chandra Arya is an Indo-Canadian leader who comes from the Liberal Party of Canada, the same party as Prime Minister Justin Trudeau.
.
He further said that the Khalistan movement leader is trying to "provoke" the Hindu Canadians to react and "divide the Hindu and Sikh communities" in Canada.
However, Arya also clarified that a majority of Canadian Sikhs do not support the Khalistan movement.
.
"I can't understand how the glorification of terrorism or a hate crime targeting a religious group is allowed in the name of freedom of speech and expression. There would be an outrage in Canada if a white supremacist attacked any group of racialized Canadians asking them to get out of our country. But apparently, this Khalistani leader can get away with this hate crime," he said.
.
"Two well-organized groups claiming to represent their faiths have been attacking Hindu-Canadian community leaders, Hindu organizations and even me. For over ten months, I have been attacked for raising a flag with our Hindu religious sacred symbol Aum on our parliament hill," he stated.

"

 

[patience_and_focus]

On 9/21/2023 at 12:51 PM, Parsad said:

 Unlike the head of Khalsa Credit Union and Khalsa Schools who was killed a couple of years ago, Nijjar had no links to criminal activity. 

 

I am not justifying the murder of anyone here. But there are millions of Sikhs in US and India, why target one that is of no real consequence to jeopardize all important relationships between countries. From what I have read across the communique over the years between India and Canada, I am sure the Indian govt disagrees with him having no links to criminal activities and had put multiple requests to extradite him and others for providing material support to insurgents including one request from former Punjab chief minister Capt. Amarinder Singh, who is a fellow Sikh, during Trudeau visit in 2018 to India  

 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-sikh-singh-1.4544790 - 

"But Singh himself gave a very different account to Indian media, saying that he had raised the issue of support for Khalistan in the Canadian Sikh diaspora and adding that Canada is one of the countries from which diaspora money flows to separatists in Punjab...."

 

Unfortunately for Canada and Indian Canadians, the group related to insurgency (which as per Indian govt, Nijjar was purportedly part of) have history of things like bombing airplanes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_India_Flight_182) and killing fellow Sikhs who disagree with them during the decade of insurgency in India in the 1980s. It is incredible that current Prime Minister's father was in power when the plane was blown up and after 20 years of "investigation" they had 1 person charged with manslaughter and nothing much else. An equivalent bombing is Pan Am 103 that everyone in western world know, but hardly anyone knows about AI 182.

 

A vast vast majority of Sikhs in India and Canada are not supporters of violence, but the Canadian govt has for decades turned a blind eye towards the few who are involved in a very active fund raising and logistical support to insurgency that has killed hundreds of thousands.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_India_Flight_182

"The Babbar Khalsa, a Sikh militant and Khalistani separatist group was implicated in the bombings........

During the 1970s, many Sikhs emigrated to western Canada. These included men who later became leaders and members of the Babbar Khalsa including Talwinder Singh Parmar, Ajaib Singh Bagri, Ripudaman Singh Malik and Inderjit Singh Reyat. By the 1980s, the area around Vancouver, British Columbia, had become the largest centre of Sikh population outside India"

 

https://globalnews.ca/news/9969537/who-is-hardeep-singh-nijjar/

" In 1997, Nijjar came to Canada, claiming he had been beaten and tortured by Indian police. In 1998, his refugee claim was denied. According to his immigration records, he used a fraudulent passport that identified him as “Ravi Sharma.”..................................

 

In 2014, a few months after India’s Prime Minister Narendra Modi, a Hindu nationalist, took office, Indian authorities issued an arrest warrant for Nijjar. New Delhi described Nijjar as the “mastermind” of the militant group Khalistan Tiger Force.

He was accused of being involved in the 2007 bombing of a cinema in Punjab. A 2016 Interpol notice against him alleged he was a “key conspirator” in the attack. He was accused of recruiting and fundraising, a charge that Nijjar vehemently denied."

Edited September 24, 2023 by patience_and_focus

[Xerxes]

Why did Xi diverged from Deng’ footsteps and chose to no longer “be patient and to hide his strength” at the cost of upsetting real tangible economic relationship with United States.
 

Not to say that Canada is important to India as US was to China. 
 

But sometimes pride gets in the way. 
 

 

 

PS:  PLA Navy doesn’t need aircraft carriers. They would be better suited to have a larger number of submarines. I even recall an American admiral making the comment how he prefers Beijing obsession about large fleet of aircraft carriers in the long term than a larger submarine fleet that could be America’ naval assets at risk. 
 

Delhi doesn’t/didn’t need to assassinate that fellow. But it is a sign of great power status to do so. Backed by “don’t you dare tell me what to do”. 
 

 

 

 

Edited September 24, 2023 by Xerxes

[Vish_ram]

It is sad to see Canada turn to aid and abet terrorism in India. The chickens always come home to roost. 

[mcliu]

Seems like the narrative is changing from “where’s the proof” to “but he’s a terrorist.”

[Xerxes]

25 minutes ago, mcliu said:

Seems like the narrative is changing from “where’s the proof” to “but he’s a terrorist.”

yeah exactly 

 

soon there would upcoming comparison to America going after bearded men w/o impunity. And how come Delhi is not allowed to do conduct assassination on foreign soil. 

 

That said I am about tired of Liberals and Trudeau. I was & am voting conservative next election. Whenever that might be. They have been mismanaging our foreign policy. But every time some Asian power throws its economic weight and bullies us, I do like a government that stands up.  
 

 

[mcliu]

10 years of Trudeau gave us negative per capita GDP, weaker C$ broken healthcare, housing crisis, immigration crisis, broken education, depleted and broken military, record debt and deficits and multiple foreign policy fiascos. Probably time for some change. 

[Parsad]

On 9/23/2023 at 10:32 PM, patience_and_focus said:

 

I am not justifying the murder of anyone here. But there are millions of Sikhs in US and India, why target one that is of no real consequence to jeopardize all important relationships between countries. From what I have read across the communique over the years between India and Canada, I am sure the Indian govt disagrees with him having no links to criminal activities and had put multiple requests to extradite him and others for providing material support to insurgents including one request from former Punjab chief minister Capt. Amarinder Singh, who is a fellow Sikh, during Trudeau visit in 2018 to India  

 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-sikh-singh-1.4544790 - 

"But Singh himself gave a very different account to Indian media, saying that he had raised the issue of support for Khalistan in the Canadian Sikh diaspora and adding that Canada is one of the countries from which diaspora money flows to separatists in Punjab...."

 

Unfortunately for Canada and Indian Canadians, the group related to insurgency (which as per Indian govt, Nijjar was purportedly part of) have history of things like bombing airplanes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_India_Flight_182) and killing fellow Sikhs who disagree with them during the decade of insurgency in India in the 1980s. It is incredible that current Prime Minister's father was in power when the plane was blown up and after 20 years of "investigation" they had 1 person charged with manslaughter and nothing much else. An equivalent bombing is Pan Am 103 that everyone in western world know, but hardly anyone knows about AI 182.

 

A vast vast majority of Sikhs in India and Canada are not supporters of violence, but the Canadian govt has for decades turned a blind eye towards the few who are involved in a very active fund raising and logistical support to insurgency that has killed hundreds of thousands.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_India_Flight_182

"The Babbar Khalsa, a Sikh militant and Khalistani separatist group was implicated in the bombings........

During the 1970s, many Sikhs emigrated to western Canada. These included men who later became leaders and members of the Babbar Khalsa including Talwinder Singh Parmar, Ajaib Singh Bagri, Ripudaman Singh Malik and Inderjit Singh Reyat. By the 1980s, the area around Vancouver, British Columbia, had become the largest centre of Sikh population outside India"

 

https://globalnews.ca/news/9969537/who-is-hardeep-singh-nijjar/

" In 1997, Nijjar came to Canada, claiming he had been beaten and tortured by Indian police. In 1998, his refugee claim was denied. According to his immigration records, he used a fraudulent passport that identified him as “Ravi Sharma.”..................................

 

In 2014, a few months after India’s Prime Minister Narendra Modi, a Hindu nationalist, took office, Indian authorities issued an arrest warrant for Nijjar. New Delhi described Nijjar as the “mastermind” of the militant group Khalistan Tiger Force.

He was accused of being involved in the 2007 bombing of a cinema in Punjab. A 2016 Interpol notice against him alleged he was a “key conspirator” in the attack. He was accused of recruiting and fundraising, a charge that Nijjar vehemently denied."

 

Canada would never reject a legitimate Interpol notice.  Where there is evidence, Canada always accommodates extradition agreements with countries it partners with unless capital punishment is involved.  

 

Regarding the Air India bombing, it was the RCMP who effed up the investigation in such a way that the accused got away with it.  Nothing to do with Trudeau's father.

 

I'm not saying Nijjar wasn't guilty of something...but there was obviously not enough evidence to extradite him or capital punishment was involved.  Nijjar had no criminal record in Canada.  Cheers!  

[ICUMD]

23 hours ago, Parsad said:

Regarding the Air India bombing, it was the RCMP who effed up the investigation in such a way that the accused got away with it.  Nothing to do with Trudeau's father.

Events like 911 and Air India come from terrorist organizations, rather than individuals.  In the case of Air India, there is no debate that militant Khalistani's held responsibility.  A lot of innocent people died including children.  Nijjar was a leader of this group having this terrible past.

 

Trudeau could have discussed the issue of Nijjar's assassination privately with Modi.  Rather, in accusing India publically (whether guilty or not), Trudeau makes many concerning unspoken statements. 

 

Most unspoken of all, his signaling of Canada as a safe haven for 'freedom of expression' once you have a Canadian passport. What a perfect breeding ground for extremism and terrorism. 

 

In any case, I suspect Trudeau days as Prime Minister will be ending in short order. Hopefully idiocy will be replaced with diplomacy.

[Xerxes]

My view is that when one takes an Oath to become a citizen of Canada, unless it is for humanitarian reasons, they need to forgo all their darkest desire vis a vis their former homeland. 
 

You cannot in all honestly take an Oath and become a citizen, yet your mind be on overdrive in achieving some sort of political agenda (be it violent or non violent) back home. That is abuse of country that gave you a new home. 
 

That said, this is not a Trudeau thing, as much as haters like to pile in. It requires a change that transcends any specific government.  

[ICUMD]

9 hours ago, Xerxes said:

My view is that when one takes an Oath to become a citizen of Canada, unless it is for humanitarian reasons, they need to forgo all their darkest desire vis a vis their former homeland. 
 

You cannot in all honestly take an Oath and become a citizen, yet your mind be on overdrive in achieving some sort of political agenda (be it violent or non violent) back home. That is abuse of country that gave you a new home. 
 

That said, this is not a Trudeau thing, as much as haters like to pile in. It requires a change that transcends any specific government.  

Agree mostly.

 

Trudeau should be upholding these values as a leader. Obviously, his priorities are elsewhere.

[sundin]

Is diplomacy really sliding extrajudicial murder under the rug and dealing with it privately? It has to be considered here that the fall out would be the same irrespective of the political party. Canadian intelligence along with the FBI had to publicly share this information with ongoing threats of Indian death squads hired to kill its citizens.

 

There's a grand amount of disinformation out there by the Indian state media including "Cocaine being found on Trudeau's plane" along with Nijjar's alleged history. All these are designed to shift the focus away from an extrajudicial killing of a Canadian citizen and to justify murder which is what the Indian media is currently doing. As Pres Obama highlighted in his memoir the RSS/Modi/Hindutva, is a real risk for future democracy of India, including freedoms and rights of minorities living in the country. India is cannot be a friend of the West if it cannot uphold its democratic ideals. 

[Spekulatius]

I watch sometimes WION and it does feel like government propaganda. This is not the case with Al Jazeera, even though Al Jazeera is controlled by Qatari government.

 

On another note, I am also surprised that some people here think it's a good thing that the Indian government would sent out kill squads to Canadian citizens in Canada because they are accused of terrorism in India.

 

Personally, I would be distraught if the German government sent out a hit men to Canada to kill a Canadian citizen of German origin (or even German citizen). Such a government should be fired in my opinion, doesn't even matter if the accusation is true or not.

[Haryana]

Kash Heed

Kash P. Heed is a former Canadian politician, who was elected as a BC Liberal Member of the Legislative Assembly of British Columbia in the 2009 provincial election, representing the riding of Vancouver-Fraserview.
He formerly served as the Minister of Public Safety and Solicitor General.
He was formerly chief constable of the West Vancouver Police Department and a former superintendent with the Vancouver Police Department and was the first Indo-Canadian police chief in Canada.

(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kash_Heed)

 

.

 

Kash Heed said there are organised crime groups and terrorist groups operating in Canada and it has been a long-standing issue. To a question on a web of Khalistani terror in the country, he said it is not limited to South Asian groups, but other ethnic groups as well.
"It's prevalent, whether you want to identify it as a Khalistani group or as other Asian-based organised groups, it's quite prevalent in Canada. They are making a lot of money, and it's mainly because of the sale of drugs and weapons," he said.

 

 

[sundin]

^Quite the reach to get that quotation from Kash that Indian media has used. The anchor brought up 'Khalistan' many times and the one time he uses the word is what goes viral. lol  The full byte talks about the issue being prevalent in general society and many groups being complicit. 

 

Indian media has shifted from shitting on Trudeau/Canada to now trying to find anything to justify the murder and perception of Nijjar - A lot of which is just tangents/hearsay. Makes me think not much is there. 
 

-----------------------------------------------------------

On the 2016 Interpol citation Nijar  was investigated by the RCMP and CSIS and in following wrote to the government -

“Because of my campaign for Sikh rights, it’s my belief that I have become a target of an Indian government campaign to label my human rights campaign as terrorist activities,” the letter written by Nijjar to Trudeau said. https://nationalpost.com/news/hardeep-singh-nijjar-letter-to-trudeau
 

 

"India ‘weaponizing global anti-terror fund’ to target NGOs, says Amnesty"
The Indian government has exploited the assessment reports of a global money laundering and terrorist financing watchdog to target “legitimate human rights work of civil society”, a new report by Amnesty International said. ...This has been done under the “guise of combating terrorism”, Amnesty International’s India chair Aakar Patel said.

https://www.independent.co.uk/asia/india/india-fatf-amnesty-terrorism-funding-latest-report-b2419340.html

 

 

Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s BJP party and its Hindu nationalist allies have perfected using social media to spread inflammatory, often false and bigoted material on an industrial scale, earning both envy and condemnation beyond India’s borders.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/09/26/hindu-nationalist-social-media-hate-campaign/


 

[Xerxes]

4 hours ago, Spekulatius said:

I watch sometimes WION and it does feel like government propaganda. This is not the case with Al Jazeera, even though Al Jazeera is controlled by Qatari government.

 

On another note, I am also surprised that some people here think it's a good thing that the Indian government would sent out kill squads to Canadian citizens in Canada because they are accused of terrorism in India.

 

Personally, I would be distraught if the German government sent out a hit men to Canada to kill a Canadian citizen of German origin (or even German citizen). Such a government should be fired in my opinion, doesn't even matter if the accusation is true or not.

 

@Luca

please “love” or “thumbs up” this post for me. 
 

[Luca]

8 hours ago, Xerxes said:

 

@Luca

please “love” or “thumbs up” this post for me. 
 

Done. 

 

 

[Parsad]

On 9/27/2023 at 12:21 PM, Haryana said:

Kash Heed

Kash P. Heed is a former Canadian politician, who was elected as a BC Liberal Member of the Legislative Assembly of British Columbia in the 2009 provincial election, representing the riding of Vancouver-Fraserview.
He formerly served as the Minister of Public Safety and Solicitor General.
He was formerly chief constable of the West Vancouver Police Department and a former superintendent with the Vancouver Police Department and was the first Indo-Canadian police chief in Canada.

(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kash_Heed)

 

.

 

Kash Heed said there are organised crime groups and terrorist groups operating in Canada and it has been a long-standing issue. To a question on a web of Khalistani terror in the country, he said it is not limited to South Asian groups, but other ethnic groups as well.
"It's prevalent, whether you want to identify it as a Khalistani group or as other Asian-based organised groups, it's quite prevalent in Canada. They are making a lot of money, and it's mainly because of the sale of drugs and weapons," he said.

 

 

 

This is no different than other countries.  There are terrorist groups in the United States and India, both domestic and foreign.  The United States is inundated with Mexican drug cartels, their money, influence and carnage.  India has a diaspora of terrorist groups from Tamil, Khalistani, Pakistani, etc living in India.

 

Canada doesn't allow terrorists here anymore than any other country.  They come in under normal immigration/refugee rules like everyone else in this country and every other country.  Many circumvent the system using forged documents, etc and then send money back to their country to support their activities.  

 

If you think it is any different in any other country, then explain how 9/11 happened?  Cheers!

[Haryana]

 

Taliban diplomats are also having a difficult time in India.

 

https://www.dw.com/en/afghanistans-embassy-in-india-ceases-operations/a-66973492

 

"New Delhi does not recognize Afghanistan's Taliban rulers, who took power in 2021."

 

Edited October 1, 2023 by Haryana
Brevity

[patience_and_focus]

There is open celebration and mural depiction in 2023 in Brampton, Ontario of the killing of then Indian Prime Minister (Indra Gandhi) 40 years back

 

https://www.insauga.com/parade-float-of-indira-gandhi-assassination-in-brampton-slammed-by-indian-government/

 

 

The views espoused here are not new, in one form or another going on for decades, a lot of this translates to fundraising and logistics, to say the least, behind the scenes and disregard of it by the Canadian government.

 

It is unfortunate because this liberal and open tolerance only inflames and causes more right wing hardline views and actions from the other side (Indians and their govt). Rationality, empathy and finding middle ground is lost completely.

 

Sikhs and Hindus in India have made peace since those god awful 1980s, they had a sikh prime minister and vibrant democracy in Punjab. But gobbles of money keeps flowing to the radicalized few from the west funding the insurgency (particularly from Canada).

 

Interesting is that the current right wing Hindu nationalist party in power (BJP) frequently aligns with sikh political parties and is a bitter rival of the INC party run by the grandson of Indra Gandhi (Rahul Gandhi). But they are now uniting and taking a hard line on this. 

Edited October 1, 2023 by patience_and_focus

[no_free_lunch]

15 minutes ago, patience_and_focus said:

There is open celebration and mural depiction in 2023 in Brampton, Ontario of the killing of then Indian Prime Minister (Indra Gandhi) 40 years back

 

https://www.insauga.com/parade-float-of-indira-gandhi-assassination-in-brampton-slammed-by-indian-government/

 

 

The views espoused here are not new, in one form or another going on for decades, a lot of this translates to fundraising and logistics, to say the least, behind the scenes and disregard of it by the Canadian government.

 

It is unfortunate because this liberal and open tolerance only inflames and causes more right wing hardline views and actions from the other side (Indians and their govt). Rationality, empathy and finding middle ground is lost completely.

 

Sikhs and Hindus in India have made peace since those god awful 1980s, they had a sikh prime minister and vibrant democracy in Punjab. But gobbles of money keeps flowing to the radicalized few from the west funding the insurgency (particularly from Canada).

 

Interesting is that the current right wing Hindu nationalist party in power (BJP) frequently aligns with sikh political parties and is a bitter rival of the INC party run by the grandson of Indra Gandhi (Rahul Gandhi). But they are now uniting and taking a hard line on this. 

Thanks for posting.  Scary but not surprising.  This is confirmed, here is a Canadian link to what I believe is the same event.

 

https://toronto.citynews.ca/2023/06/08/india-angered-sikh-parade-float-portraying-assassination/