Russia-Ukrainian War

[Spekulatius]

Wagner is still in business and the boss is Sytii:

https://www.wsj.com/world/africa/wagner-africa-sytii-prigozhin-gold-12a45769?mod=trending_now_news_3
 

 

Quite well diversified - security muscle, media business (misinformation, troll farms, political advertisement  beer), gold mines and who knows what.

[UK]

24 minutes ago, Spekulatius said:

Wagner is still in business and the boss is Sytii:

https://www.wsj.com/world/africa/wagner-africa-sytii-prigozhin-gold-12a45769?mod=trending_now_news_3
 

 

Quite well diversified - security muscle, media business (misinformation, troll farms, political advertisement  beer), gold mines and who knows what.

 

Succession policy seems in place:)

 

This is how it works, when the west decides it is not their business anymore:

 

As Wagner’s operations in the Central African Republic grew, it offered services to other African governments that were under domestic pressure and felt abandoned by the West, often because of sanctions or concerns over human rights.

...

Each country that Wagner entered was pulled deeper into Russia’s sphere of influence. Sytii helped run the nonmilitary side of that operation.

[UK]

 

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/09/23/europe/ukraine-biggest-counteroffensive-to-come-intl-hnk/index.html?fbclid=IwAR06WIuzVhT-RWId6IdF1wSMq02t-52t6JD5mVdjQYvzv5xyB7AjaYcWmAY

 

“The weather can be a serious obstacle during advance, but considering how we move forward, mostly without vehicles, I don’t think [the weather] will heavily influence the counteroffensive,” Tarnavsky told Pleitgen in the interview. “Right now, neither the enemy nor us uses large formations, companies, battalions or brigades. We use assault squads, groups of 10 to 15 men,” he explained. “They conduct titanic work of concentrating enemy fire on them and using all the means they have to use to survive.” One of the reasons for the slow advance, the general said, was the fact that Russia had been able to learn some lessons from other Ukrainian offensives. “The Russians are learning quite fast, as they don’t have any other choice. If they don’t learn, they will be defeated sooner,” he explained. “I wouldn’t say they are adapting to our actions, as we also change our tactics.” He said Ukraine had also been adapting to using Western equipment, as well as Western tactics. When asked about rising resistance in the West to continuing weapons supplies to Ukraine, especially in the US, where some have voiced doubt about Kyiv’s chances of success, Tarnavsky said he respected their view. “Let it be the opinion of the skeptics. It’s not a competition and we don’t have a choice,” he said. “I understand somebody may have imagined large scale counteroffensive operations. But times are changing, enemy tactics are changing, weapons change.” “We have one goal – liberation of our territories. However hard it is we will keep on working. And I want to thank even the skeptics, their criticism also influences our task’s success,” he said.

[UK]

https://www.wsj.com/video/series/on-the-news/how-us-atacms-missiles-could-help-push-ukraine-back-into-crimea/E532E1AB-74C5-4E71-8B98-539B61E1511F

[Dinar]

I find it interesting that Democrats and Biden, are willing to work so hard to defend Ukrainian borders, but not willing to lift a finger to defend American borders from millions of invaders.  

[sleepydragon]

1 hour ago, Dinar said:

I find it interesting that Democrats and Biden, are willing to work so hard to defend Ukrainian borders, but not willing to lift a finger to defend American borders from millions of invaders.  

If Biden had done nothing , I think China probably would have already started a war with Taiwan now.  

[John Hjorth]

Russian Black Sea Fleet HQ in Sevastopol getting hammered yesterday. Wild, just wild.

 

 

 

[Dinar]

59 minutes ago, sleepydragon said:

If Biden had done nothing , I think China probably would have already started a war with Taiwan now.  

Oh, I am not saying that Biden should have done nothing, I am saying that as an American citizen, I wish Biden was as concerned with our borders as he is with Ukrainian borders.  

[cubsfan]

2 hours ago, Dinar said:

I find it interesting that Democrats and Biden, are willing to work so hard to defend Ukrainian borders, but not willing to lift a finger to defend American borders from millions of invaders.  

 
This very issue sticks in the craw of many Americans. Just proves how worthless Biden is - he will defend Ukraine’s borders but not our own. Biden loves Ukraine more than his own citizens. Of course, if you took millions in bribes, you got to return the favor, while you spit on your own citizens.

[no_free_lunch]

8 hours ago, cubsfan said:

 
This very issue sticks in the craw of many Americans. Just proves how worthless Biden is - he will defend Ukraine’s borders but not our own. Biden loves Ukraine more than his own citizens. Of course, if you took millions in bribes, you got to return the favor, while you spit on your own citizens.

 

Those are not related. The southern border, yes there are costs but it's more enforcement is the issue.  You can do both.

Edited September 24, 2023 by no_free_lunch

[UK]

12 hours ago, Dinar said:

I find it interesting that Democrats and Biden, are willing to work so hard to defend Ukrainian borders, but not willing to lift a finger to defend American borders from millions of invaders.  

 

It is a little bit offtopic, but I found it interesting: https://www.wsj.com/world/europe/slow-boil-refugee-crisis-takes-its-toll-even-in-germany-dfdadaae

 

Just over half of migrants who came to Germany in 2015 and 2016 have a job now, said Thomas Liebig, a researcher with the international migration division of the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development. That is higher than in previous migration waves, he said, but far lower than in the U.S., where barriers to employment are lower and the lack of social benefits makes work imperative. U.S. data is less standardized, but a Department of Health and Human Services study found that of refugees who arrived between 2014 and 2018, 83% of men and 67% of women had full-time employment by 2019.

 

I quess "small government" in this case just works better.

[mcliu]

Zelenskyy came to Canadian Parliament recently. They gave a standing ovation to an Ukrainian veteran that fought against the Soviet Union in WW2. Turns out that he fought as part of a SS unit.

 

https://forward.com/fast-forward/561927/zelenskyy-joins-canadian-parliaments-ovation-to-98-year-old-veteran-who-fought-with-nazis/

 

The man was identified as Hunka by the Associated Press, which published a photograph showing Zelenskyy smiling and raising a fist during the ovation.

 

The AP caption described Hunka as having “fought with the First Ukrainian Division in World War II before later immigrating to Canada.” The First Ukrainian Division is another name for the 14th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS, the military wing of the Nazi Party; the unit was also called SS Galichina.

 

This is the same unit that is honored by controversial monuments in Canada, Australia, and, as the Forward recently exposed, the suburbs of Philadelphia and Detroit. Jewish groups have called for their removal.

 

Formed in 1943, SS Galichina was composed of recruits from the Galicia region in western Ukraine. The unit was armed and trained by the Nazis and commanded by German officers. In 1944, the division was visited by SS head Heinrich Himmler, who spoke of the soldiers’ willingness to slaughter Poles.” 
 

Three months earlier, SS Galichina subunits perpetrated what is known as the Huta Pieniacka massacre, burning 500 to 1,000 Polish villagers alive. 

[Dinar]

2 hours ago, mcliu said:

Zelenskyy came to Canadian Parliament recently. They gave a standing ovation to an Ukrainian veteran that fought against the Soviet Union in WW2. Turns out that he fought as part of a SS unit.

 

https://forward.com/fast-forward/561927/zelenskyy-joins-canadian-parliaments-ovation-to-98-year-old-veteran-who-fought-with-nazis/

 

The man was identified as Hunka by the Associated Press, which published a photograph showing Zelenskyy smiling and raising a fist during the ovation.

 

The AP caption described Hunka as having “fought with the First Ukrainian Division in World War II before later immigrating to Canada.” The First Ukrainian Division is another name for the 14th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS, the military wing of the Nazi Party; the unit was also called SS Galichina.

 

This is the same unit that is honored by controversial monuments in Canada, Australia, and, as the Forward recently exposed, the suburbs of Philadelphia and Detroit. Jewish groups have called for their removal.

 

Formed in 1943, SS Galichina was composed of recruits from the Galicia region in western Ukraine. The unit was armed and trained by the Nazis and commanded by German officers. In 1944, the division was visited by SS head Heinrich Himmler, who spoke of the soldiers’ willingness to slaughter Poles.” 
 

Three months earlier, SS Galichina subunits perpetrated what is known as the Huta Pieniacka massacre, burning 500 to 1,000 Polish villagers alive. 

Funny, Zelensky was applauding a man who would burn alive his grandparents if he had the chance.  In other news....

https://www.wsj.com/world/europe/russias-army-learns-from-its-mistakes-in-ukraine-a6b2eb4?mod=hp_lead_pos1

[mcliu]

8 minutes ago, Dinar said:

Funny, Zelensky was applauding a man who would burn alive his grandparents if he had the chance.  In other news....

https://www.wsj.com/world/europe/russias-army-learns-from-its-mistakes-in-ukraine-a6b2eb4?mod=hp_lead_pos1

Strange upside down world now.

 

It seems like the Russians are learning quickly. There is a growing possibility that Ukraine may not prevail despite our weapons. Meanwhile, Ukrainian casualties are mounting quickly. What happens then? 

[no_free_lunch]

Where were your guys criticism when Russia murdered tens of thousands of Ukrainian civilians in Ukraine.  This link is just a one off and frankly Russia's wagner group has it's own nazi links.

 

 

If Russia were winning why would they reach for links to North Korea of all places?   What does this say about Russia?

[mcliu]

https://foreignpolicy.com/2023/09/22/ukraine-war-ethics-morality-murky/

[Dinar]

3 hours ago, no_free_lunch said:

Where were your guys criticism when Russia murdered tens of thousands of Ukrainian civilians in Ukraine.  This link is just a one off and frankly Russia's wagner group has it's own nazi links.

 

 

If Russia were winning why would they reach for links to North Korea of all places?   What does this say about Russia?

Go read the thread and you will find it.  I have never been a fan of Putin nor do I think that the Russian invasion was justified.  

You however seem incapable of admitting that Shushkevich and Bandera were mass murderers, and committed genocide.  A nation that glorifies people who commit genocide, calls them national heroes and puts up their statues cannot expect sympathy from civilized people.  Its people yes, its government no!

[no_free_lunch]

1 hour ago, Dinar said:

Go read the thread and you will find it.  I have never been a fan of Putin nor do I think that the Russian invasion was justified.  

You however seem incapable of admitting that Shushkevich and Bandera were mass murderers, and committed genocide.  A nation that glorifies people who commit genocide, calls them national heroes and puts up their statues cannot expect sympathy from civilized people.  Its people yes, its government no!

Go search the thread and you will find what you are after but really I'm in no mood to placate.  I think this is a trumped up argument to distract from the murder and war brought on by RF this past year.  There are tens of thousands of dead civilians,  more every day but sure the real news is some Ukrainian joined the nazis 80 years ago.

 

If we want to look that far you will also see a pact with the soviets and nazi.  Where Poland was divided.   Thousands of poles killed.   That was all under Stalin in league with the nazis yes. 

[Dinar]

32 minutes ago, no_free_lunch said:

Go search the thread and you will find what you are after but really I'm in no mood to placate.  I think this is a trumped up argument to distract from the murder and war brought on by RF this past year.  There are tens of thousands of dead civilians,  more every day but sure the real news is some Ukrainian joined the nazis 80 years ago.

 

If we want to look that far you will also see a pact with the soviets and nazi.  Where Poland was divided.   Thousands of poles killed.   That was all under Stalin in league with the nazis yes. 

 

The Ukrainians that joined SS in World War II and murdered hundreds of thousands of Jews and Poles are considered national heroes.  That's not some Ukrainian, they are national heroes.  You worship genocidal maniacs?  That's your right, but do not expect the rest of the world to help a country that believes genocide is a good thing.  

 

[mcliu]

6 hours ago, no_free_lunch said:

Where were your guys criticism when Russia murdered tens of thousands of Ukrainian civilians in Ukraine.  This link is just a one off and frankly Russia's wagner group has it's own nazi links.

 

 

If Russia were winning why would they reach for links to North Korea of all places?   What does this say about Russia?

Our tax dollars aren't going to Wagner, they're going to our politicians and to Ukraine. Why shouldn't it be a problem if these folks end up supporting extremists?

 

The longer this war drags on the more Ukrainians & Russians will die. Why aren't we trying to get Ukraine to negotiate for peace? France brokered a ceasefire between Georgia and Russia after 7 days, saving countless lives, why can't that happen here?

 

Does the West really care about Ukrainians or are we using them to give the finger to Russia? If we cared so much about Ukrainian lives, why don't we send our own troops instead?

[mcliu]

7 hours ago, no_free_lunch said:

If Russia were winning why would they reach for links to North Korea of all places?   What does this say about Russia?

The future is uncertain, especially for wars, so it's good to think probabilistically. In a downside scenario, Ukraine might not prevail. What happens then?

 

 

Edited September 25, 2023 by mcliu

[UK]

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/15/opinion/ukraine-war-putin.html

[John Hjorth]

This topic has to me personally recently derailed totally into a trainwreck.

 

All this Nazi talk makes no sense to me. Would any of you posting in this topic blame a 1. or 2. order decendant of Adolf Hitler for Hitlers doings under WW2? -Or for that sake blaim it on any living person of German origin today? Come on - it makes no sense, and you all know it. In Europe, there are likely Nazis in every European country, even here in Denmark.

 

Also, in an other dimension the whole discussion going on in this topic is or has become one-dimensional [,as in "Europe is Europe"]. I'm here talking about the separation of, and distinction of :

 

1. Europe [Russia west the Ural mountains  is actually generally accepted as a part of Europe],

2. EU member [, or not] &

3. NATO member [, or not].

[Dinar]

8 hours ago, John Hjorth said:

This topic has to me personally recently derailed totally into a trainwreck.

 

All this Nazi talk makes no sense to me. Would any of you posting in this topic blame a 1. or 2. order decendant of Adolf Hitler for Hitlers doings under WW2? -Or for that sake blaim it on any living person of German origin today? Come on - it makes no sense, and you all know it. In Europe, there are likely Nazis in every European country, even here in Denmark.

 

Also, in an other dimension the whole discussion going on in this topic is or has become one-dimensional [,as in "Europe is Europe"]. I'm here talking about the separation of, and distinction of :

 

1. Europe [Russia west the Ural mountains  is actually generally accepted as a part of Europe],

2. EU member [, or not] &

3. NATO member [, or not].

German government does NOT glorify Nazis, you do not see statues of Nazis in Germany.  Ukrainian government does.  That's a key difference for me.  

[no_free_lunch]

50 minutes ago, Dinar said:

German government does NOT glorify Nazis, you do not see statues of Nazis in Germany.  Ukrainian government does.  That's a key difference for me.  

There is a jewish leader in the country and a Muslim defense chief.

 

The other meme going is that Ukraine is run by Satanists.  I am not kidding. So it's run by Jewish Nazi Satanists according to these theories. 

 

Really this is all an obvious attempt to derail the conversation. These theories are made by fools and for a level of iq below anyone on this board.

 

Let's talk about the tens or hundreds of thousands killed this year and last.  This ongoing casualty count.  If all you got is some made up history I got nothing much else to say to you other than I know what you really are doing.   It's not to get to the bottom of current events. 

Edited September 25, 2023 by no_free_lunch