Xerxes Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 1 hour ago, TwoCitiesCapital said: The primary thread that 2008, 2014, and 2022 had in common wasn't Democratic presidents, but rather high energy prices. Putin could afford the war. not to mention high oil prices of late 70s and early 80s that kept the lifeline to USSR. it could have ended sooner than it did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spekulatius Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 2 hours ago, TwoCitiesCapital said: We'll ignore that piece for now. We'll also ignore that Putin did this shit in Georgia in 2008 while Bush was still President and who was more of a war monger than Bush? The primary thread that 2008, 2014, and 2022 had in common wasn't Democratic presidents, but rather high energy prices. Putin could afford the war. Had oil been $90/barrel in 2017, I imagine Putin would've considered invading then. But it wasn't. It was averaging about $55/barrel that year. He wasn't scared of Trump - he just couldn't afford the fight with Trump. Yes, I think that’s the right take. Russia is giant gas station maskerading as a country (I don’t know who came up with this quote) and every time Putin is flush with cash from oil money, bad things tend to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
changegonnacome Posted March 18, 2022 Author Share Posted March 18, 2022 3 hours ago, TwoCitiesCapital said: Had oil been $90/barrel in 2017, I imagine Putin would've considered invading then. But it wasn't. It was averaging about $55/barrel that year. He wasn't scared of Trump - he just couldn't afford the fight with Trump. Nailed it @TwoCitiesCapital - hadn't thought of this historical linkage..........but your right......Putin has plans & schemes but those schemes don't escape his evil little mind until oil/gas prices get high enough.......if only, if only the USA was the worlds energy swing producer it could actually do something to stop this...........Oh wait......oh dear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoCitiesCapital Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, cubsfan said: ^^^^ Yeah, thanks for helping make the point. Trump knew he could hurt Putin & Iran badly by having the USA become energy independent. Trump wouldn't make the colossal mistake that the Europeans did by outsourcing their energy independence to the Russians. Major fuck up. Putin certainly feared lower global oil prices initiated by Trump. Thankfully for Putin, Joe Biden was more than happy to accommodate Russian aggression by driving oil prices back up. You're right. It was the last 18 months of the Biden presidency that's the resulting in high commodity prices. Absolutely couldn't have been the lack of investment in the space over the last decade, the supply chain disruptions, and the trillions in stimulus that BOTH Trump and Biden supported. Couldn't have been that commodities were the lowest prices against financial assets they'd been in decades and this is the reckoning that would've occurred regardless of the president or policy. Nope! Biden turned the whole commodity supply chain complex on its head with less than 2-years in office and manufactured inflation where all others failed over the last 12 years. Genius if you ask me! Edited March 18, 2022 by TwoCitiesCapital Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spekulatius Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 80% of the things happening in the commodity space can be explained by the fact that supply lags demand. Oil does not really behave differently than all the other commodities like copper, iron lumber or even shipping rates. Both parties are talking their book here. Republicans blame high gas prices on Biden, Democrats blame high gas prices on greedy oil companies, it s all nonsense, but I can understand why they do this. I do not understand why people who are supposedly skilled in economics actually repeating some of those above as if they were true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
changegonnacome Posted March 18, 2022 Author Share Posted March 18, 2022 20 minutes ago, Spekulatius said: I do not understand why people who are supposedly skilled in economics actually repeating some of those above as if they were true. Repeating one or other version of the consensus is what gets you a slot on CNBC, Bloomberg, Fox, NY Times, speaking engagements, consultancy gigs etc. etc. These people aren't thought leaders they are providers of a confirmation bias product. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cubsfan Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 ^^^ What's hilarious is that you don't think that this administration is responsible for high energy prices. Now that is really rich. Just keep kidding yourself. Joe owns this one, just like he owns his Green New Deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spekulatius Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 (edited) 29 minutes ago, cubsfan said: ^^^ What's hilarious is that you don't think that this administration is responsible for high energy prices. Now that is really rich. Just keep kidding yourself. Joe owns this one, just like he owns his Green New Deal. We have been agreeing on some things here, so I knew it wouldn’t last . Tell me how this works: Total world wide oil production ~95M brl. US oil production ~10.5M brl How much of this US oil production is influenced by government? May call it 5% (which is generous). so now the oil price is set as a function of world wide demand / supply balance and you think that Biden can influence prices? Besides that ESG was a factor under Trump, is a factor under Biden and will be factor with the next President. Lots of talk and barking on both sides, but neither one has much of an impact. NG is a different issue, because to a large extend, NG prices are set locally or by LNG imports, so there are barriers to move stuff around. Crude however is pretty friction less and trades on global supply demand balance, adjusted for oil quality difference and transportation costs (which are low). Edited March 18, 2022 by Spekulatius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerxes Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 (edited) The invention of supertanker 50-60 years ago turned a fragmented oil market into global market with a global price, albeit heavily influenced by OPEC at the beginning simply because of their outsize control on supply. everytime we had high prices that led to new source of supplied, lowering OPEC contribution and influence. Like the North Sea fields in the 80s. Etc. natural gas remained very much a local fragmented market (with local price) because it was constrained by the pipeline. As the number of LNG increases that will do to natural gas what supertanker did to the oil market: a convergence toward a global price (net of shipment cost etc) Edited March 18, 2022 by Xerxes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cubsfan Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 ^^^ Lots of good or bad things can happen when you are the world's swing producer. Maybe we actually learned something from being under the thumb of OPEC and the Saudi's for years - don't you think? By innovation or sheer luck, the USA found itself in this very lucky position to be the world's largest producer of oil. And while the Europeans were shutting down coal plants, nuclear plants, etc, etc - they make a tragic mistake in putting their energy future in the hands of a very, very bad actor. It's pretty damn clear to me, at least, that Putin clearly understood the importance of energy as an essential component of American strategic power. That President Biden did not, is a tragedy for all. Say all you like about NATO membership being the primary reason. My opinion is Europe made a deal with the devil - and Biden's Afghanistan utter disaster convinced Putin - It's NOW or NEVER. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spekulatius Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 Putin sacking his generals and throwing some in jail. Looks more and more like Stalins playbook. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10624659/Russia-sacks-one-generals-amid-claims-leaked-information-led-loss-life.html Good thing for Putin the buck doesn’t stop at the very top in a dictatorship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerxes Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 If he was playing Age of Empires, he could have "loaded" from his last "save" from Feb 21, and do things differently, or used the following cheatcodes .... or maybe even go for "wimpywimpywimpy" What is the cheat code to get 10,000 Su-27MK ? 10,000 wood - lumberjack. 10,000 food - cheese steak jimmy's. 10,000 gold - robin hood. 10,000 stone - rock on. 100,000 of all resources - ninjalui. Commit suicide - wimpywimpywimpy. Control animals instead of men - natural wonders. Full map - marco. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
no_free_lunch Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 I would just say that much of this anti Putin stuff is propaganda. Russia is far from defeated and many in the country support the war. I actually see them slowly winning. Ukraine does not really have the capability to launch strong counter attacks, not that I have seen, so over time Russia takes more and more territory. Mariupol is about to fall and then there is a land bridge to the Crimea. After that forces will be freed up to push into the central. There is a real chance of them cutting the east of the country off. They need everyone's help and maybe they can stall Russia out. However do not believe any hype that Russia is approaching defeat. Respect the Russian culture and realize they know how to suffer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spekulatius Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 38 minutes ago, Xerxes said: If he was playing Age of Empires, he could have "loaded" from his last "save" from Feb 21, and do things differently, or used the following cheatcodes .... or maybe even go for "wimpywimpywimpy" What is the cheat code to get 10,000 Su-27MK ? 10,000 wood - lumberjack. 10,000 food - cheese steak jimmy's. 10,000 gold - robin hood. 10,000 stone - rock on. 100,000 of all resources - ninjalui. Commit suicide - wimpywimpywimpy. Control animals instead of men - natural wonders. Full map - marco. I think Putin is just busy making the cheat code for 50,000 Syrian mercenaries work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blugolds11 Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 35 minutes ago, Xerxes said: If he was playing Age of Empires, he could have "loaded" from his last "save" from Feb 21, and do things differently, or used the following cheatcodes .... or maybe even go for "wimpywimpywimpy" What is the cheat code to get 10,000 Su-27MK ? 10,000 wood - lumberjack. 10,000 food - cheese steak jimmy's. 10,000 gold - robin hood. 10,000 stone - rock on. 100,000 of all resources - ninjalui. Commit suicide - wimpywimpywimpy. Control animals instead of men - natural wonders. Full map - marco. Wow that takes me back…that was THE game back in the day for me and my friends, countless hours against each other…if this was the case we could send the Ukrainians some Shelby Cobras and be done with it… - Shelby Cobra = how do you turn this on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoCitiesCapital Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 (edited) 8 hours ago, Spekulatius said: 80% of the things happening in the commodity space can be explained by the fact that supply lags demand. Oil does not really behave differently than all the other commodities like copper, iron lumber or even shipping rates. Both parties are talking their book here. Republicans blame high gas prices on Biden, Democrats blame high gas prices on greedy oil companies, it s all nonsense, but I can understand why they do this. I do not understand why people who are supposedly skilled in economics actually repeating some of those above as if they were true. People love to think they're so much smarter than "the others" - the others being those on the opposite side of the political spectrum. They also love to disagree with them and will change their underlying principles to do so. Antiwar Democrats under Bush disappeared under Obama. Anti-deficit Republicans disappeared under Trump. People who wanted out of Afghanistan under Trump blame that fiasco on Biden because it was Biden's responsibility to execute on Trump's plan...but those same people will give Trump a pass on abysmal execution during the pandemic. Politics clouds logical thought. The things they claim to believe arent what they believe - they just want to be different than "them" and beat "them" and will say whatever is necessary to do it as demonstrated in all of the hypocritical examples above for both parties. Straddling the middle I think gives you an open mind to both sides. All my Republican family in the Midwest thinks I'm raging liberal. All my raging liberal NYC friends think I'm a Republican. That's what independent thought gets you, I guess. Edited March 18, 2022 by TwoCitiesCapital Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardGibbons Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 Or as Munger would say, "Another thing I think should be avoided is extremely intense ideology because it cabbages up one's mind." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cubsfan Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 (edited) 20 minutes ago, TwoCitiesCapital said: People love to think they're so much smarter than "the others" - the others being those on the opposite side of the political spectrum. They also love to disagree with them and will change their underlying principles to do so. Antiwar Democrats under Bush disappeared under Obama. Anti-deficit Republicans disappeared under Trump. People who wanted out of Afghanistan under Trump blame that fiasco on Biden because it was Biden's responsibility to execute on Trump's plan...but those same people will give Trump a pass on abysmal execution during the pandemic. Politics clouds logical thought. The things they claim to believe arent what they believe - they just want to be different than "them" and beat "them" and will say whatever is necessary to do it as demonstrated in all of the hypocritical examples above for both parties. Straddling the middle I think gives you an open mind to both sides. All my Republican family in the Midwest thinks I'm raging liberal. All my raging liberal NYC friends think I'm a Republican. That's what independent thought gets you, I guess. ^^^ Oh my god, talk about a brain turned to mush... This is actually funny. Tell us more about Biden's wonderful evacuation of Afghanistan. Please....tell us how it wasn't a total debacle... You mean where he left the Taliban with tens of billions worth of the most sophisticated arms in the world? Those arms that he might have been able to provide to the Ukrainians? Yeah, who am I to criticize the man who just make the Taliban world's largest terrorist army! Thanks for the Friday laughs though.... Edited March 18, 2022 by cubsfan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pelagic Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 Ironically there are some Taliban fighters heading to Ukraine to fight with the Ukrainians, killing Russians being their raison d'etre and whatnot - maybe they'll bring the leftover US equipment with them. Likely to even see some US veterans and Taliban fighting together in Ukraine if this goes on long enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoCitiesCapital Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, cubsfan said: ^^^ Oh my god, talk about a brain turned to mush... This is actually funny. Tell us more about Biden's wonderful evacuation of Afghanistan. Please....tell us how it wasn't a total debacle... You mean where he left the Taliban with tens of billions worth of the most sophisticated arms in the world? Those arms that he might have been able to provide to the Ukrainians? Yeah, who am I to criticize the man who just make the Taliban world's largest terrorist army! Thanks for the Friday laughs though.... I didn't say it was wonderful. I said it was Trump's plan and Biden failed to execute on it. Just like Trump failed to execute on Covid. Evidently political bias also f*cks up your reading comprehension. Edited March 18, 2022 by TwoCitiesCapital Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregmal Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 Why can’t we all just agree to make tons of money off this nonsense? It’s highly predictable and literally raining money and “the market” is still red on the year! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shhughes1116 Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 2 hours ago, no_free_lunch said: I would just say that much of this anti Putin stuff is propaganda. Russia is far from defeated and many in the country support the war. I actually see them slowly winning. Ukraine does not really have the capability to launch strong counter attacks, not that I have seen, so over time Russia takes more and more territory. Mariupol is about to fall and then there is a land bridge to the Crimea. After that forces will be freed up to push into the central. There is a real chance of them cutting the east of the country off. They need everyone's help and maybe they can stall Russia out. However do not believe any hype that Russia is approaching defeat. Respect the Russian culture and realize they know how to suffer. The Russians rear areas are not secure. In order to secure their rear, they have to pull back troops from the various city encirclements. But In order to secure the encircled cities, they must pull troops out of their rear areas. Their multi-axis advance forced them into this poor situation. The Russians have chosen the latter, and the Ukrainian Territorial Defense Forces are taking a page out of the Robert Rogers’ playbook and wreaking havoc on the Russian’s road-bound traffic in undefended rear areas. Certainly possible that Mauripol falls, and those Russian forces pivot north to cut off the eastern portion of Ukraine. That said, I think it is more likely that this slowly grinds into a stalemate, with the Russians unable to muster additional offensive actions. fortunately for Ukraine, they aren’t relying on this board for strategic military advice because they would most certainly be f**ked of that was the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nsx5200 Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 (edited) 10 hours ago, cubsfan said: ^^^ What's hilarious is that you don't think that this administration is responsible for high energy prices. Now that is really rich. Just keep kidding yourself. Joe owns this one, just like he owns his Green New Deal. I didn't know Biden was crowned the king of OPEC+ in secret. If you have credible news, please share. He did, however, pump in trillions of dollar that ended up inflating everything, and not just oil, so Joe's not completely blameless. @Gregmal, I whole heartedly agree with you. If you know of a viable way to buy Gazprom at near zero pennies, I'd be happy to put in a dinner-valued lottery ticket. If the ticket is redeemable, it won't matter if we choose to blame Joe, Trump or heck, you can even blame me. Here's an interesting article I ran across regarding dictorship and Putin: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/03/putin-dictator-trap-russia-ukraine/627064/ Something to think about if Trump decides to run again. Edited March 18, 2022 by nsx5200 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spekulatius Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 40 minutes ago, shhughes1116 said: fortunately for Ukraine, they aren’t relying on this board for strategic military advice because they would most certainly be f**ked of that was the case. LOL, very true, but that doesn’t prevent us from trying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spekulatius Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 One of the best tactical assesment I have seen in German (or Austrian ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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