Russia-Ukrainian War

[Parsad]

By the way, I'm sick of this partisan crap running into everything.  Dinar got a 30-day ban yesterday.  I'm not going to waste my time anymore with even that...I'm doing permanent bans if I see another post on Trump, Biden, Obama or anything that remotely looks like politics.  This shit has got to stop and I'm not going to perpetuate false narratives from either side.  If you guys want to do that go elsewhere!  Cheers!

[nsx5200]

1430 bottles of beers on the wall

1430 bottles of beer.
Take one down and pass it around,

1429 bottles of beer on the wall.

Edited Wednesday at 07:50 PM by nsx5200
I can't subtract

[cubsfan]

@Parsad You are absolutely correct about Putin.

 

I think you obviously know that Zelensky declared martial law 3 years ago, cancelled all elections, cancelled the free press - and that billions in aid have been stolen.  I was a fan of Zelensky for quite some time - but he is a dictator, no doubt.

 

Even in the good old USA, with all the wars we have - I've never seen a Presidential election cancelled and dictatorship installed.

 

I've always wanted Ukraine to win this war - the question now - is how will/can they win?

 

 

 

 

[Gregmal]

What have we gotten in return for the billions we sent Mr comedian the last 3 years? Anyone ever find it ironic that despite the news snippets about how much Russia was getting "annihilated" that the cash spigot never got shut off? Seemed more like a rope-a-dope strategy that apparently worked. 

[Gregmal]

20 minutes ago, Parsad said:

Dinar got a 30-day ban yesterday.

Maybe I missed what Dinar wrote, and perhaps its warranted, but now we're at 2 guys from one side, and 0 from the other.......

[Ulti]

https://warontherocks.com/2025/02/armed-neutrality-for-ukraine-is-natos-least-poor-option/
 Limited options for Ukraine to settle war

described as the Finland option 

 

 

The hype about the Ukrainian rare earths began with Ukrainians themselves. Desperate to find a way to engage Trump, they miscalculated presenting the then-incoming president a “victory plan” in November that talked up — way, way up — the potential of the country’s mineral resources. Soon, they lost control of the narrative.

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2025-02-19/trump-s-insistence-ukraine-has-rare-earth-elements-is-wrong

 

Column by Javier Blas … seems like both sides way way overhyped the amount of metals available 

 

[Pelagic]

Forcing Ukraine to hold elections is a strange take from Trump. Zelenskyy ran as the moderate open to dialogue with Russia in 2019, a stance which has clearly changed but worth highlighting as a starting point. While he'd likely win reelection, the most likely alternative candidate, Zaluzhnyi, is just as hawkish if not more so. Saying Zelenskyy has a 4% approval rating yesterday likely gave him at least a 4% bump from around the 52% he was at in December, but more to my point, what's the end game when it comes to holding elections? Is the thinking someone more likely to cave to Russian demands will win, because if so that seems way off the mark.

 

And as an American what we've gotten in exchange for aid to Ukraine is fairly simple, low gas prices. Ukraine would have almost certainly targeted Russian crude export capacity early in the war and knocked a meaningful portion offline. American aid came with restrictions on what Ukraine could target and this was very much one of the lenses through which the Biden admin prosecuted the war, conditioning aid and capabilities on targets they thought were permissible. That Trumps team doesn't seem to care about this, both in terms of the energy aspect and escalation management, is interesting and likely incredibly confusing to the Ukrainians who've felt micromanaged for the last 3 years. That said, things likely don't change too much going forward as EU aid comes with similar conditions, but the UK and France have both been far less hesitant about strikes in Russia than the Biden team was.

 

 

[John Hjorth]

Personally, I appreciate your posts in this topic very much, @Pelagic ! 

 

I hope you woulden't mind to share your nationality, thank you in advance, meaning also : If you mind, that would naturally also be OK, and would be respected.

[Sweet]

Some of the things being said are wild and it’s sad that they are so easily believed.

 

Edited Wednesday at 10:02 PM by Sweet

[John Hjorth]

Somebody seem to have forgotten how and what this started with.

 

Mike [ @cubsfan ] & Greg [ @Gregmal ],

 

Du you remember? :

 

United Nations - 8974th Meeting (Night) [February 23^rd 2022] : Russian Federation Announces ‘Special Military Operation’ in Ukraine as Security Council Meets in Eleventh-Hour Effort to Avoid Full-Scale Conflict

 

Subtitle :

 

‘Give Peace a Chance’, Secretary-General Stresses as Political Affairs Chief Calls for Dialogue ‘Even at this Late Hour’

 

Quote

... LINDA THOMAS-GREENFIELD (United States) said her country, along with its allies and partners, will continue to respond to the actions of the Russian Federation with clarity and conviction.  Warning that a full-scale invasion by the Russian Federation into Ukraine is imminent, she said Moscow is currently closing airspace, moving troops into Donbas and forces into combat positions.  This is a perilous moment, she affirmed, and the United States is here for one reason:  to ask the Russian Federation to stop, return to its borders, send its troops and planes back to their barracks and hangars, and instead send its diplomats to the negotiating table.  Last week, the United States informed the Council what it expected to see unfold.  It said that Moscow would fabricate a pretext for an attack — and in fact, there have been numerous false flag events staged along the lines of contact in Donbas.  The United States said that Moscow would theatrically convene emergency meetings at the highest level of Government.  This was seen on 21 February, with a State televised meeting held by President Putin, an orchestrated moment when Moscow decided to recognize as “independent states” sovereign territory of Ukraine that has been controlled by Russian proxies since 2014. ...

 

- - - o 0 o - - -

 

ABC News [February 24^th 2022] : Russian President Putin announces military operation in Ukraine

 

 

Edited Wednesday at 10:23 PM by John Hjorth

[cubsfan]

How what started?  The war? 

 

Or how it needs to end? 

 

Do you have a point?

[Parsad]

3 hours ago, cubsfan said:

@Parsad You are absolutely correct about Putin.

 

I think you obviously know that Zelensky declared martial law 3 years ago, cancelled all elections, cancelled the free press - and that billions in aid have been stolen.  I was a fan of Zelensky for quite some time - but he is a dictator, no doubt.

 

Even in the good old USA, with all the wars we have - I've never seen a Presidential election cancelled and dictatorship installed.

 

I've always wanted Ukraine to win this war - the question now - is how will/can they win?

 

 

 

 

 

Cubs, I'm not favoring Zelensky.  I think he's done some things that aren't right as well.  But I'm for Ukraine...they didn't start this thing.  And you can't negotiate Ukraine's fate without Ukraine's representation...if not Zelensky, then someone else or a group of non-partisan leaders.  Cheers!

[Parsad]

3 hours ago, Gregmal said:

Maybe I missed what Dinar wrote, and perhaps its warranted, but now we're at 2 guys from one side, and 0 from the other.......

 

Dinar wrote some stuff on the killing of Afghans and how it was necessary...not only incorrect, but quite tasteless!  Just don't need that shit on here.  Cheers!

[Gregmal]

17 minutes ago, Parsad said:

 

Dinar wrote some stuff on the killing of Afghans and how it was necessary...not only incorrect, but quite tasteless!  Just don't need that shit on here.  Cheers!

Didn't know that but he's a quality contributor. 

 

Anyway, as I said when this stupid thread started, its a sham war, a waste of time, a nothing burger for my investments and only an opportunity if people overreact and think this is a big deal. Lo and behold however long later, we've pissed away all this money, people got their rocks off talking war theory, sharing cherry picking clips of "Russia getting pwned!!!!" and playing Stratego....and virtually nothing else relevant emerged. Oh yea, and we wasted a shit ton of taxpayer resources catering to propaganda....basically a low budget HBO drama....so Im done here. 

[Spekulatius]

It’s clear that Trump doesn’t give a damn about an Ukraine , he just wants this over with and is annoyed about the resistance from Zelenski , hence the vitriol .

 

What I don’t get is why he just doesn’t cut the aid and leave it at that, since he has no vested interest in the outcome and also won’t back any solution but leave this to others. He really has no business to negotiate anything at this point and should leave it alone.

[Parsad]

39 minutes ago, Spekulatius said:

It’s clear that Trump doesn’t give a damn about an Ukraine , he just wants this over with and is annoyed about the resistance from Zelenski , hence the vitriol .

 

What I don’t get is why he just doesn’t cut the aid and leave it at that, since he has no vested interest in the outcome and also won’t back any solution but leave this to others. He really has no business to negotiate anything at this point and should leave it alone.

 

Because he's a malicious bastard!  He doesn't just want to embarrass those that oppose or offend him, he wants to wipe them out and relegate them to irrelevancy...look at Mike Pence!  Who needs enemies, when you have a friend like Trump!  Cheers!  

[cubsfan]

Of course he doesn't want anything to do with this war and all the useless loss of life.

He wants it over. Good for him attempting to drive a settlement over what is now just a killing field.

 

It's Europe's war, and they should have forced a conclusion one way or another long ago.

 

But as @changegonnacome said - 27 countries can't agree on anything, so now it's left to the

USA to try and conclude it.

[Xerxes]

2 hours ago, Spekulatius said:

why he just doesn’t cut the aid and leave it at that, since he has no vested interest in the outcome and also won’t back any solution but leave this to others. He really has no business to negotiate anything at this point and should leave it alone.

Behind all the PR theatrics, Trump understands the leverage vis a vis aide (with Kremlin), and doesn’t want the nightmare of 2021 Kabul repeat.  

if there will be a catastrophic collapse on the Ukrainian front it has to be set up as Kiev’ own mishap w/ proper narrative, that “he told them what to do for the war to end and they just wouldn’t do it”

 

washing my hands 

[Charlie]

8 hours ago, Spekulatius said:

It’s clear that Trump doesn’t give a damn about an Ukraine , he just wants this over with and is annoyed about the resistance from Zelenski , hence the vitriol .

 

What I don’t get is why he just doesn’t cut the aid and leave it at that, since he has no vested interest in the outcome and also won’t back any solution but leave this to others. He really has no business to negotiate anything at this point and should leave it alone.

If Trump can end the war and bring lasting peace, that would be a huge victory for him.

 

That is one of the biggest advantages of Trump, that he can better communicate with Putin.

Edited yesterday at 08:57 AM by Charlie

[Paarslaars]

15 minutes ago, Charlie said:

If Trump can end the war and bring lasting peace, that would be a huge victory for him.

 

That is one of the biggest advantages of Trump that he can better communicate with Putin.

It will never be lasting peace, everyone knows that. Putin took Crimea and then there was peace, now he takes parts of Ukraine and there is peace, next up he'll take even more... he won't stop. This is why the EU keeps siding with Ukraine on this, they know if they don't stop him in Ukraine, he will invade the EU at one point.

 

7 hours ago, Spekulatius said:

What I don’t get is why he just doesn’t cut the aid and leave it at that, since he has no vested interest in the outcome and also won’t back any solution but leave this to others. He really has no business to negotiate anything at this point and should leave it alone.

 

He wants the war to end, cutting aid without getting an agreement on peace from Ukraine/Europe is just going to make Ukraine have more casualties or Europe send more aid. That won't accomplish anything... though a nice cost saving initiative I guess.

Edited yesterday at 07:43 AM by Paarslaars

[Charlie]

53 minutes ago, Paarslaars said:

It will never be lasting peace, everyone knows that. Putin took Crimea and then there was peace, now he takes parts of Ukraine and there is peace, next up he'll take even more... he won't stop. This is why the EU keeps siding with Ukraine on this, they know if they don't stop him in Ukraine, he will invade the EU at one point.

One should aim for the best and prepare for the worst. Peace and Trade brings Prosperity.

The future is uncertain.  

Edited yesterday at 08:36 AM by Charlie

[Sweet]

8 hours ago, Gregmal said:

its a sham war,

What does that even mean?

[Gamecock-YT]

8 hours ago, Spekulatius said:

What I don’t get is why he just doesn’t cut the aid and leave it at that, since he has no vested interest in the outcome and also won’t back any solution but leave this to others. He really has no business to negotiate anything at this point and should leave it alone.

 

 

To the man with a hammer.....

 

It's sad what is happening to the Ukrainians. They've fought with one arm behind their back from the start with the limits the west have put on them in regards to not targeting Russian assets in Russia, higher tiers of lethal equipment provided only when things were going badly, and now as the conflict has became mired in a stalemate (thanks to the 2 former actions) the rug is being pulled from underneath them.

 

If we do get some type of ceasefire, no doubt Russia will do what they've done in previous episode of USSR expansion and flood the new territory with Russian nationals at the expense of the Ukrainians. A state sponsored 21st century carpetbagger. 

 

The whole push on "elections" couldn't be more of an opportunity at putting a Russian puppet in place via a campaign of disinformation and corruption. Or becoming a new east/west divide the likes of which we haven't seen since the cold war. And this most likely puts Western troops overtly in to Ukraine in a peacekeeper role, which has been a red line for all NATO nations since the conflict started. 

 

Given the push towards right wing nationalism we see sweeping the globe (I think the AfD results in the upcoming German election are going to be shocking to some), I don't think Europe has the capital, political or economic, to keep supporting Ukraine by themselves. But they will have to push back at some point, if not in Ukraine then most likely in the Baltics or Southeast Europe.

 

 

[Sweet]

1 hour ago, Gamecock-YT said:

The whole push on "elections" couldn't be more of an opportunity at putting a Russian puppet in place via a campaign of disinformation and corruption.

 

The UK didn't have an election for 10 years as a result of World War II, elections were put off until after the war because the war was about survival.  If we had lost that war our democracy might have died with it.

 

Trump has a statue of Winston Churchill in the oval office, by his own login Winston Churchill is also a 'dictator' for postponing elections.

 

Ukraine is fighting for survival, law and order comes first... it's a conservative mantra.

[Charlie]

2 hours ago, Gamecock-YT said:

Given the push towards right wing nationalism we see sweeping the globe (I think the AfD results in the upcoming German election are going to be shocking to some)

There is practically zero chance of big suprise in the german election.

 

The election polls are the same for months:

 

https://dawum.de/Bundestag/

 

The winner CDU/CSU is middle/right. No other political party wants something to do 

with the AFD. Voters really listen to what politicians say.