Russia-Ukrainian War

[mcliu]

edit: Looks like General was wearing a swastika bracelet, but just a result of image compression.

 

Edited October 10, 2022 by mcliu

[Spekulatius]

@mcliu if actually follow the Twitter thread , you will find out what it really is what you are seeing.

[mcliu]

1 hour ago, Spekulatius said:

@mcliu if actually follow the Twitter thread , you will find out what it really is what you are seeing.

Thanks. Looks like it's just image compression.

There's been many Ukrainian soldiers with Nazi symbols, good to know that at least the Generals aren't Nazis.

[Xerxes]

Look like Kremlin is hiring Dr Evil as the new C-in-C overseeing the Special Operations. 
 

[Xerxes]

 

[bizaro86]

On 9/12/2022 at 12:19 AM, bizaro86 said:

I had the most amazing experience today and this seems like the place to share it.

When I was a teenager both my (now) wife and myself took a summer volunteer trip to Ukraine. We were mostly working with kids in a rural area, and it absolutely rips me apart that the 3-5 year olds I spent the summer reading to and playing games with are now almost certainly all engaged in a brutal war for survival. I'm often online late at night now because I can't sleep thinking about it.

A bunch of us were billeted with an amazing family in this little village. They took care of us, fed us, and were just wonderful hosts. Today, my wife got a whats app message (kind of a friend-of-a-friend thing) that someone was looking for winter clothing for some Ukrainian refugees who have kids a bit younger than ours, and did we have any extras/hand-me-downs that would suit. As the conversation progressed, she found out some information about the family.

It turns out that the family who billeted us in Ukraine ~20 years ago has fled the country. The parents, their two children, the children's spouses, and the grandchildren are all living temporarily with a family IN CALGARY (the medium sized Canadian city where I live). I have no idea what the odds of this are, it seems astronomical to me. Obviously we'll be doing the winter clothes and more, and we haven't made it down to see them yet as we just found out today. I'm sort of in shock and am a bit unsure of exactly what to do next, but had to share it somewhere and this thread seemed like a reasonable place.

 

I've had a few people reach out about this, wanting to help. It took me awhile to get things sorted, as they needed bank accounts in Canada and gofundme has stricter verification for Ukraine related things. Anyway, they are settled with a host family now and looking for work, but need a vehicle to be able get to a workplace from where they are staying. The cost of a used vehicle plus insurance (for those without a Canadian driving record) is outside their means so I've started a gofundme for them. Absolutely no pressure (and if not allowed please remove) but if anyone wants to contribute you can do so here:

 

https://www.gofundme.com/f/viktor-and-irena?

 

Any help would be appreciated.

[mcliu]

 

[Spekulatius]

This is gold:

Transcript:

So when I tell them that in order to

understand Putin they shouldn't really

talk to experts from the foreign office.

They should go to a crime ridden area

to the local police station

where any Police Inspector would tell

them what a normal gangster is

like and how you deal with them

 

 

Edited October 15, 2022 by Spekulatius

[UK]

https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-to-keep-the-ukraine-conflict-from-going-nuclear-11665761260

 

The U.S. government should be communicating, quietly and often, to the Russian military not to follow any unhinged orders from Mr. Putin to use nuclear weapons. Anyone who orders nuclear use and anyone who implements such orders, they should be told, will be held accountable. Mr. Putin has brought a great disaster upon the Russian military, Russian elites and the Russian people. Washington should be reminding all Russians that a Ukrainian victory in this war won’t be an existential threat to Russia. It would be existential threat only to Vladimir Putin. Mr. Putin has surrounded himself with “yes men” who protect him and tell him what he wants to hear. But the cocoon of loyalty around him is beginning to crack, according to American intelligence sources. Nikita Khrushchev was overthrown in 1963 in part because he displayed such reckless decision-making during the Cuban Missile Crisis. When former NSC adviser Zbigniew Brzezinski was asked, “How come you failed to predict the ouster of Khrushchev?” he replied, “Tell me, if Khrushchev couldn’t predict his own ouster, how do you expect me to do so?” Analysts inside and outside the U.S. government can’t predict exactly when or how Mr. Putin will be overthrown from within. The future of Russia will be determined by the Russian people. But a Russia without Vladimir Putin must be our long-range hope, even if it is not our immediate expectation.

[no_free_lunch]

Some info on Russia's links to Nazism, in particular via the Russian mercenary group Wagner.  For those who are not familiar, Wagner is a mercenary unit that alledgedly reports directly to Putin.  I view it as somewhat analagous to Putin's brown shirts.  In Ukraine, where Russia is advancing (currently Bakhmut) it is usually Wagner that is involved.

 

Quote

Nazi symbols are popular among the mercenaries; in Ukraine in April, a leader of Task Force Rusich, a Wagner subsidiary, was videotaped wearing the Valknot and Tatenkoph of the 3rd SS Panzer Division. Wagner itself is named after the notoriously antisemitic German composer, whose operas famously made Hitler weep. According to the group’s origin story, a former Spetsnaz (Soviet special forces) soldier named Dmitry Utkin used “Wagner” as his callsign while fighting in the Donbass region in eastern Ukraine in 2014. Utkin, who many consider Wagner’s operational commander, has tattoos of Nazi “SS” epaulets along his collar bones. Many founding members of Wagner also belong to the ultra-nationalist and white supremacist group known as the Russian Imperial Movement, which the U.S. State Department has declared a terrorist organization.

 

https://time.com/6180611/white-power-mercenaries-fighting-the-lost-cause/

 

Edited October 16, 2022 by no_free_lunch

[Spekulatius]

19 minutes ago, no_free_lunch said:

Some info on Russia's links to Nazism, in particular via the Russian mercenary group Wagner.  For those who are not familiar, Wagner is a mercenary unit that alledgedly reports directly to Putin.  I view it as somewhat analagous to Putin's brown shirts.  In Ukraine, where Russia is advancing (currently Bakhmut) it is usually Wagner that is involved.

 

 

https://time.com/6180611/white-power-mercenaries-fighting-the-lost-cause/

 

I think the Wagner group model themselves after the Totenkopf (skull) SS. SS was basically Hitler Guard. Some of them were elite army divisions (including tanks) others were guarding the Konzentrationcamps like Dachau. Similar to SS being Hitler’s guard, the Wagner units are separate from the regular army and run as a mercenary group directed by Putin. 

Edited October 16, 2022 by Spekulatius

[no_free_lunch]

I agree, SS is a much more accurate comp for the Wagner group.

 

To support the claim of their link to the Kremlin, here is Wagner's tweet "are you ready".  They put this vague threat out amongst the massive Russian force build-up, heightened tensions and warnings of an invasion from NATO.  In fact it was tweeted out about 12 hours before the Ukraine war started.  They literally front ran the invasion.  In retrospect it was clearly a taunt.  What is the point of being evil if you can't flaunt it right?

 

 

Edited October 17, 2022 by no_free_lunch

[Xerxes]

@UK

 

Khuruschev and Putin have a completely different verticals of power. The former might have schemed his way to the position of leadership like a worm, after the hardliners like Beria were made disappear but he largely worked to de-construct the myth of Stalin and with it his own vertical of power. 
 

 

Putin is the complete reverse as he has consolidated power. Now that being said I find western media full of references of “unhinged Putin” and “hoping for a palace coup”. Clearly, sabre rattling aside he has not gone up the escalation ladder by moving nuclear warheads out of storage for everyone to see. In fact, the danger is far less than 7 months ago IMO, notwithstanding their losses. To me that is a sign of rational actor who can do the math. A clearly misinformed and somewhat out of touch … but a rational actor.
 

now of all folks wishing of a palace coup etc, who has actually done the deep dive to understand the consequences of another soul taking power who is even worse than him. 
 

In Stalin case, his death meant the end of the Korean War, but the Cold War raged on and the fact his successors had a softer touch was a blessing. I would not expect this in today’ Russia. 
 

in Putin case, right now he gets the media attention as he is the ultimate authority, but who are the hardcore nationalists behind him that are actually saying that Russia is taking it too easy on Ukraine and should go much harder at it. (Infrastructure etc)

[UK]

13 minutes ago, Xerxes said:

@UK

 

Khuruschev and Putin have a completely different verticals of power. The former might have schemed his way to the position of leadership like a worm, after the hardliners like Beria were made disappear but he largely worked to de-construct the myth of Stalin and with it his own vertical of power. 
 

 

Putin is the complete reverse as he has consolidated power. Now that being said I find western media full of references of “unhinged Putin” and “hoping for a palace coup”. Clearly, sabre rattling aside he has not gone up the escalation ladder by moving nuclear warheads out of storage for everyone to see. In fact, the danger is far less than 7 months ago IMO, notwithstanding their losses. To me that is a sign of rational actor who can do the math. A clearly misinformed and somewhat out of touch … but a rational actor.
 

now of all folks wishing of a palace coup etc, who has actually done the deep dive to understand the consequences of another soul taking power who is even worse than him. 
 

In Stalin case, his death meant the end of the Korean War, but the Cold War raged on and the fact his successors had a softer touch was a blessing. I would not expect this in today’ Russia. 
 

in Putin case, right now he gets the media attention as he is the ultimate authority, but who are the hardcore nationalists behind him that are actually saying that Russia is taking it too easy on Ukraine and should go much harder at it. (Infrastructure etc)

 

Thanks. Yes, unfortunatelly I mostly agree with your sombre view. Probably just wishfull thinking on my part.

 

 

Edited October 17, 2022 by UK

[Xerxes]

I have not done any research but I would say (as an uninformed person) that Wagner Group reminds me more of Blackwater than SS Waffen. 
 

SS Waffen wasn’t created as a commercial entity to privatize war.

 

Both Blackwater and Wagner Group were.

 

SS Waffen was an instrument of the Party, and while may have started as Hitler’ bodyguards, it’s combat division worked side by side with Wehrmacht.   
 

There was a video interview, I saw years back where one of the heads of Blackwater was stupid enough to compare his company to the East India Company taking on the savages. The sheer cluelessness and arrogance of these people was too much for me. 

[Pelagic]

This is one of the clearest videos of what an operation in this war looks like that I've seen. And also reinforces just how useful consumer grade drones can be on the modern battlefield.

 

You can turn on English subtitles for a decent translation.

 

 

[UK]

https://www.yahoo.com/now/billionaire-investor-bill-ackman-joins-175616088.html

[Spekulatius]

6 hours ago, UK said:

https://www.yahoo.com/now/billionaire-investor-bill-ackman-joins-175616088.html

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2022/10/12/elon-musk-russia-ukraine-00061528

[Dinar]

I think that he is correct.  Also, keep in mind that until 1954 Crimea was part of Russia, and Khruschev gifted Crimea to Ukraine in 1954 to celebrate 400 year anniversary of the union between Russia and Ukraine

[Xerxes]

I get a feeling even if at some point Ukraine formally recognize Crimea as de jure Russian territory as a concession to end the war, you still have Western countries that by spite will oppose that and not recognize that. 
 

Israel annexed the Golan Heights in early 1980s, after few decades of occupation after having getting hold of it in the 1967 war. The only country to formally recognize that was U.S. and only under Trump so some +30 years later, after Israel’s annexation and some 50 years after Israel conquered it. 

[Castanza]

On 10/17/2022 at 12:28 AM, Xerxes said:

I have not done any research but I would say (as an uninformed person) that Wagner Group reminds me more of Blackwater than SS Waffen. 
 

SS Waffen wasn’t created as a commercial entity to privatize war.

 

Both Blackwater and Wagner Group were.

 

SS Waffen was an instrument of the Party, and while may have started as Hitler’ bodyguards, it’s combat division worked side by side with Wehrmacht.   
 

There was a video interview, I saw years back where one of the heads of Blackwater was stupid enough to compare his company to the East India Company taking on the savages. The sheer cluelessness and arrogance of these people was too much for me. 

A lot of misconceptions about Black Water out there. US government used them and then threw them under the bus many times. 
 

A few interviews I think you would enjoy. Long but it’s unfiltered info from actual sources. 
 

https://youtu.be/nwK_XLFOm_I

https://youtu.be/DUvO0yO7N5I

 

And a bonus one with insiders about the Afghan pullout. 
 

https://youtu.be/nwK_XLFOm_I

 

 

[Xerxes]

Thanks @Castanza. Though to the clip looks long. 
 

is the misconception that you are speaking of is about them not being a commercial venture ?
 

i know as much about Blackwater as I know about Wagner Group, which is not much, other than they are “guns for hire” type of organization. In Wagner case, going further and actually acting as unofficial army of the State and its proxy. 
 

SS Waffen was not “guns for hire” nor a proxy to be used in distant hybrid wars. It was the very embodiment of the NSDAP party, it’s leader and its ideological spearhead. 
 

 

[Castanza]

32 minutes ago, Xerxes said:

Thanks @Castanza. Though to the clip looks long. 
 

is the misconception that you are speaking of is about them not being a commercial venture ?
 

i know as much about Blackwater as I know about Wagner Group, which is not much, other than they are “guns for hire” type of organization. In Wagner case, going further and actually acting as unofficial army of the State and its proxy. 
 

SS Waffen was not “guns for hire” nor a proxy to be used in distant hybrid wars. It was the very embodiment of the NSDAP party, it’s leader and its ideological spearhead. 
 

 

 

The misconception is that they (Blackwater) are just ruthless mercenaries. Both President Obama and Biden used them for FID and personal protection many times. A lot of the standards in the organization are even higher than what the US military has. Blackwater became an easy scapegoat for the US government over seas. Media jumped on specific instances without context and well that's pretty much how they got labeled. 

 

The last one though about Pineapple Express is something I think you'd like since you seem to enjoy Middle Eastern History etc. Also shows the complete lack of competence of the US govt (Kamala Harris asking unpaid volunteers footing the bill to get their friends out of Afghanistan to help get her people of interest out). 

 

Anyways sorry that's off topic from the thread. 

[Xerxes]

Not off topic and all info is great info. I will be listening to the last link. Thanks again 

[lnofeisone]

On 10/17/2022 at 10:43 AM, Pelagic said:

This is one of the clearest videos of what an operation in this war looks like that I've seen. And also reinforces just how useful consumer grade drones can be on the modern battlefield.

 

You can turn on English subtitles for a decent translation.

 

 

There are some grewsome and very NSFW videos you can find on reddit and telegram channels. Shows everything frontal assaults to ambushes to damage inducing (to armor and soldiers, the latter is the worst) artillery hits to granade dropping on soldiers in trenches by both Russian and Ukrainian drones. I've been watching the evolution and looks like the Russians have adopted many of the Ukranian tactics wrt to drones beyond just observation.