Russia-Ukrainian War - Political

[nsx5200]

48 minutes ago, John Hjorth said:

Somehow, I can't help to think about George Orwell : Nineteen Eighty-Four here.

 

Apologies for the off-topic, but I'm curious.   How well known is 1984 to a typical European?  FYI, 1984 is required reading at most high school's English curriculum in the U.S., AFAIK.  I'm not sure if I would've picked up those concepts had I been in a different educational system.  Would be interested to hear from those in other parts of the world.  TIA.

 

Addition:

More curious if these concepts are even taught under authoritarian educational systems, especially from non-Western countries.

Edited Monday at 05:10 PM by nsx5200

[LC]

Orwell was an Engishman, just about every literate Brit I've met has read or at least heard of 1984

[Spekulatius]

56 minutes ago, John Hjorth said:

 

@Spekulatius,

 

Yes, it is indeed very thought-provoking.

 

Somehow, I can't help to think about George Orwell : Nineteen Eighty-Four here.

 

A bit symptomatical, here is a screen shot of the 're-post' button on Truth Social :

 

.  

Orwell definitely is having a Renaissance lately and not in a good way. I think 1984 is probably the most important book of the 20th  century.

 

Everyone in my generation read this book in school. We also discussed it in history class pertaining to then current events.

 

Trump is a master in applying the doublethink concept imo.

Edited Monday at 05:22 PM by Spekulatius

[flesh]

14 minutes ago, Sweet said:

Trump’s untruths are more brash and more frequent than just about any other politician I know.

 

The problem isn’t that HE says things which are untrue, it’s that other people don’t see it, don’t care, or believe it’s true.  It’s their sheepish behaviour, either through not questioning, not caring, or their faith based believing that is concerning.  Some of them are cultists who don’t know they are.

 

Some of the same people who are quick to call out CNN or Biden’s false claims - totally fairly I might add - are suspiciously quiet which Trump does the same.

 

I could pull some AOC and Kamala quotes of the “defund the police” and “equity/equal outcomes” “hiding it from  parents if their child has claimed they are a different gender”  and similar variety that likely represents 25% of the dem party including half my extended family, from the last 5 years that if seen through to the end would’ve been extremely damaging and more Orwellian if executed than what trumps looking to execute imo. 

Of course it’s true that trumps rhetoric matters more, hes president, Kamala was close and I believe she wouldve done her best with far left ideologies once president insofar as she could without showing it in her first term to get re-elected. 
 

I disagree with the implied cult assumption proportionally between the parties. However my Bayesian prior that may not be shared by others is that the woke left is a cult and large/growing. If by cult we mean dogmatically religious about their ideology distanced from our best forms of truth telling and time tested beliefs. 
 

Calling out trump. I’ve heard about a meme coin he’s involved with, sounds really bad and might be if true. Javier milei, same thing ish. His first term was pretty mild in terms of legislation. Clearly can’t judge this one at this point based on outcomes. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Sweet]

27 minutes ago, flesh said:

I could pull some AOC and Kamala quotes of the “defund the police” and “equity/equal outcomes” “hiding it from  parents if their child has claimed they are a different gender”  and similar variety that likely represents 25% of the dem party including half my extended family, from the last 5 years that if seen through to the end would’ve been extremely damaging and more Orwellian if executed than what trumps looking to execute imo. 

Of course it’s true that trumps rhetoric matters more, hes president, Kamala was close and I believe she wouldve done her best with far left ideologies once president insofar as she could without showing it in her first term to get re-elected. 
 

I disagree with the implied cult assumption proportionally between the parties. However my Bayesian prior that may not be shared by others is that the woke left is a cult and large/growing. If by cult we mean dogmatically religious about their ideology distanced from our best forms of truth telling and time tested beliefs. 
 

Calling out trump. I’ve heard about a meme coin he’s involved with, sounds really bad and might be if true. Javier milei, same thing ish. His first term was pretty mild in terms of legislation. Clearly can’t judge this one at this point based on outcomes. 

 

 

 

 

 

You’re arguing parts of my comments which aren’t there.

 

There is no implied argument in my post that the cultists differ between Dems and GOP.  For the purposes of this conversation I don’t give a crap how they stack up.

 

I’m not suggesting that the defund the police, gender theory, and much of the other stuff woke stuff is not a cult.  It most definitely IS a cult in my view.

I’m saying if it wasn’t okay when they did it, why is it ok when Trump does it?

 

 

Edited Monday at 05:58 PM by Sweet

[flesh]

I agree, it’s never okay and we need free speech to sort it out, the freest type of free. 
 

By all means call out all bullshit when you’re confident you’ve done the work to know you have a good case. 
 

I’ll start, Trumps Desire for money and fame/promotion are repulsive. His lifelong yearning for young women shows his immaturity and need to meet the most animalistic needs. I’m glad despite what he might do for our country that my son won’t see him as an example. Etc
 

Since I threw a stone,  I’ll just say that half of what I did to make money was total bullshit, a real shame. Legalized stealing. I’m glad I know that. I lied tens of thousands of times. It’s called sales/marketing. Etc. 

 

Given the existential nature of the situation I’d like trump to raise taxes on the wealthy, short term if necessary in addition to his other ideas to raise rev. 
 

Maybe cubs can call out some of what he sees in trumps actions or policies that aren’t ideal. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited Monday at 07:03 PM by flesh

[Parsad]

Another week in the Trump administration gone by...50 days I believe and he's hit all the targets he said he would in his first few days:

 

• Ended Ukrainian/Russian war...nope!
• Ended Israel/Gaza war...nope!
• Found tens of billions of savings from DOGE...nope!
• Stock market booming...nope!
• Economy booming...nope!
• Creating millions and millions of jobs...nope!
• Fixed Obamacare...nope!
• Fixed crooked media...nope!
• Got Greenland to bend the knee...nope!
• Got Canada to bend the knee...nope!
• Retail and restaurant industry booming...nope!
• Good news...price of eggs dropped 5 cents a dozen and people should buy chickens for their backyard so they have their own eggs!  Also, Mike Myers makes a great Elon Musk on SNL!

 

MAGA...Mistakes America Gets Again!  Cheers!

[Gregmal]

13 minutes ago, Parsad said:

Another week in the Trump administration gone by...50 days I believe and he's hit all the targets he said he would in his first few days:

 

• Ended Ukrainian/Russian war...nope!
• Ended Israel/Gaza war...nope!
• Found tens of billions of savings from DOGE...nope!
• Stock market booming...nope!
• Economy booming...nope!
• Creating millions and millions of jobs...nope!
• Fixed Obamacare...nope!
• Fixed crooked media...nope!
• Got Greenland to bend the knee...nope!
• Got Canada to bend the knee...nope!
• Retail and restaurant industry booming...nope!
• Good news...price of eggs dropped 5 cents a dozen and people should buy chickens for their backyard so they have their own eggs!  Also, Mike Myers makes a great Elon Musk on SNL!

 

MAGA...Mistakes America Gets Again!  Cheers!

It’s funny how invested some of you guys seem to be in writing the narrative in such short order. Meanwhile you guys had all sorts of patience and no criticism the previous four years on which many of those issues were also on display. I don’t recall any of you folks so adamantly complaining about no peace in Ukraine or Gaza, nor did I recall any concerns about government waste lol Weird 

[Ulti]

1 hour ago, flesh said:

Maybe cubs can call out some of what he sees in trumps actions or policies that aren’t ideal. 

One of the biggest I see is the deliberate attempt to destroy the checks and balance system here in the USA that

keeps both parties somewhat in line no matter who is in power 

[cubsfan]

1 hour ago, flesh said:

 

Maybe cubs can call out some of what he sees in trumps actions or policies that aren’t ideal. 

 

I'm pretty good with most of his policies.

 

Personally, I'd like to see a little more sympathy for those impacted by DOGE.

Losing your job because of layoffs is pretty brutal. It's not funny, nor is it a wonderful thing.

These folks will need to find new jobs - and I'm certainly sympathetic to that - and the adminstration should feel for these folks.

 

Obviously, when Clinton and Biden threw miners, fossil fuel workers, and pipeline workers out of work - they show zero regards for the jobless. Their answer was go learn how to code. Basically, tough shit.

 

 

[Ghost]

47 minutes ago, Parsad said:

Another week in the Trump administration gone by...50 days I believe and he's hit all the targets he said he would in his first few days:

 

• Ended Ukrainian/Russian war...nope!
• Ended Israel/Gaza war...nope!
• Found tens of billions of savings from DOGE...nope!
• Stock market booming...nope!
• Economy booming...nope!
• Creating millions and millions of jobs...nope!
• Fixed Obamacare...nope!
• Fixed crooked media...nope!
• Got Greenland to bend the knee...nope!
• Got Canada to bend the knee...nope!
• Retail and restaurant industry booming...nope!
• Good news...price of eggs dropped 5 cents a dozen and people should buy chickens for their backyard so they have their own eggs!  Also, Mike Myers makes a great Elon Musk on SNL!

 

MAGA...Mistakes America Gets Again!  Cheers!

 

USA Federal Debt:  36 Trillion

USA Federal deficit: Let's call it 1 trillion

China trade surplus:  Let's call it 900B

 

- "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results"  

 

I don't like Trump's methods, and I question his motives...but he is not accepting the status quo. 

[Sweet]

33 minutes ago, Gregmal said:

It’s funny how invested some of you guys seem to be in writing the narrative in such short order. Meanwhile you guys had all sorts of patience and no criticism the previous four years on which many of those issues were also on display. I don’t recall any of you folks so adamantly complaining about no peace in Ukraine or Gaza, nor did I recall any concerns about government waste lol Weird 

 

Trump set himself up to fail on a lot of these by saying a lot of wild stuff.  
 

You used to rip Powell and his handling of the economy, but it’s tumbleweeds with Trump’s tariffs.  These things unfortunately work both ways.
 

[Gregmal]

5 minutes ago, Sweet said:

 

Trump set himself up to fail on a lot of these by saying a lot of wild stuff.  
 

You used to rip Powell and his handling of the economy, but it’s tumbleweeds with Trump’s tariffs.  These things unfortunately work both ways.
 

Ive stated I think the tariffs are useless and just a negotiating tactic. That hasn't changed even though it seems every 3 days people are trying to draw new conclusions from things that take months/quarters/ years to really play out. 

[Sweet]

5 minutes ago, Gregmal said:

Ive stated I think the tariffs are useless and just a negotiating tactic. That hasn't changed even though it seems every 3 days people are trying to draw new conclusions from things that take months/quarters/ years to really play out. 

Fair enough.  I think the tariffs should be used in certain circumstances, and particularly against a certain country that also begins with C, but that country isn’t Canada.

[cubsfan]

Europe's favorite Freedom Fighter and pimp, Zelensky,  continues to kidnap males to send them to the Russian Front:

 

 

 

 

[cwericb]

32 minutes ago, Sweet said:

Fair enough.  I think the tariffs should be used in certain circumstances, and particularly against a certain country that also begins with C, but that country isn’t Canada.

 

It boggles the mind that this "great businessman, great negotiator, etc, etc would think that the best way to deal with the United State's biggest customer for exports is to insult them, punish them, lie about them and lie about them. 

Funny way treat your customers.

[Eng12345]

1 hour ago, cubsfan said:

Europe's favorite Freedom Fighter and pimp, Zelensky,  continues to kidnap males to send them to the Russian Front:

 

 

 

 

Are you registered for the selective service?

 

The US threw kids in prison for not fighting an offensive war in Vietnam. 

 

Yeah drafts happen. Especially when a country is fighting for its survival. 

Edited Monday at 10:27 PM by Eng12345

[cubsfan]

4 minutes ago, Eng12345 said:

Are you registered for the selective service?

 

The US threw kids in prison for not fighting an offensive war in Vietnam. 

 

Yeah drafts happen. Especially when a country is fighting for its survival. 

 

So much for the off the charts popularity of the Ukrainian President.

Martial law, kidnapping at gunpoint, etc

 

Wait until it happens in Europe. We will find out how many of their boys want to die in Ukraine.

[Sweet]

12 minutes ago, cubsfan said:

 

So much for the off the charts popularity of the Ukrainian President.

Martial law, kidnapping at gunpoint, etc

 

Wait until it happens in Europe. We will find out how many of their boys want to die in Ukraine.

Now do Russia.  Oh that’s right, you don’t.

[cubsfan]

8 minutes ago, Sweet said:

Now do Russia.  Oh that’s right, you don’t.

 

Putin doesn't care about how many of their citizens die.

 

The Europeans care a lot - that's why they won't fight - only bark endlessly.

[Sweet]

12 minutes ago, cubsfan said:

 

Putin doesn't care about how many of their citizens die.

 

The Europeans care a lot - that's why they won't fight - only bark endlessly.

Yeh Putin doesn’t, but instead you post pictures of people being drafted in Ukraine, not the Russian men used as cannon fodder.
 

Yeh the draft sucks but Western countries have had the draft many times.

 

Nobody in Europe wants to fight, Ukraine aren’t asking for Europeans to fight (yet), they are asking for military aid.

 

If the Europeans providing military aid is barking, then the Americans providing no aid is what animal sound?

 

Edited Monday at 11:09 PM by Sweet

[cubsfan]

18 minutes ago, Sweet said:

Yeh Putin doesn’t, but instead you post pictures of people being drafted in Ukraine, not the Russian men used as cannon fodder.
 

Yeh the draft sucks but Western countries have had the draft many times.

 

Nobody in Europe wants to fight, Ukraine aren’t asking for Europeans to fight (yet), they are asking for military aid.

 

If the Europeans providing military aid is barking, then the Americans providing no aid is what animal sound?

 

 

That's always your answer - you sound like Zelensky,,,, More, More, More..

[Ghost]

2 hours ago, cwericb said:

 

It boggles the mind that this "great businessman, great negotiator, etc, etc would think that the best way to deal with the United State's biggest customer for exports is to insult them, punish them, lie about them and lie about them. 

Funny way treat your customers.

At least in regards to Canada...within days the Prime minister announced a billion dollars to secure the border and deal with the drug problem.  

I don't like Trump's tactics...but they got the outcome he wanted fairly quickly. 

 

[Mephistopheles]

6 hours ago, Sweet said:

Trump’s untruths are more brash and more frequent than just about any other politician I know.

 

The problem isn’t that HE says things which are untrue, it’s that other people don’t see it, don’t care, or believe it’s true.  It’s their sheepish behaviour, either through not questioning, not caring, or their faith based believing that is concerning.  Some of them are cultists who don’t know they are.

 

Some of the same people who are quick to call out CNN or Biden’s false claims - totally fairly I might add - are suspiciously quiet which Trump does the same.

 

Yes totally. Also - all politicians lie, but lying about basic democratic ideals, chiefly about election integrity, outweighs all other lies by far. It’s the equivalent of a banker spreading doubts about the safety of a competitor’s customer deposits

[cubsfan]

4 hours ago, Parsad said:

Another week in the Trump administration gone by...50 days I believe and he's hit all the targets he said he would in his first few days:

 

• Ended Ukrainian/Russian war...nope!
• Ended Israel/Gaza war...nope!
• Found tens of billions of savings from DOGE...nope!
• Stock market booming...nope!
• Economy booming...nope!
• Creating millions and millions of jobs...nope!
• Fixed Obamacare...nope!
• Fixed crooked media...nope!
• Got Greenland to bend the knee...nope!
• Got Canada to bend the knee...nope!
• Retail and restaurant industry booming...nope!
• Good news...price of eggs dropped 5 cents a dozen and people should buy chickens for their backyard so they have their own eggs!  Also, Mike Myers makes a great Elon Musk on SNL!

 

MAGA...Mistakes America Gets Again!  Cheers!

 

The only bullet point you forgot -

 

          -- Total destruction of the Democratic Party

 

Much of the credit goes to the truly infantile behavior of the New Democratic Party, not Trump.

So embarrassing and foul-mouthed - that normal people are fleeing in droves.

 

They are like heroin addicts, that know they are killing themselves, but just can't stop.

 

That's going to keep Trump around a long time - they are a gift to the Republicans.

Edited Monday at 11:39 PM by cubsfan