Political Posts

[John Hjorth]

51 minutes ago, cubsfan said:

Note the totally ungrateful response from the hapless Europeans and the MSM.

Like a pack of second guessers - hoping Trump is not successful - while they do nothing. One man is trying to stop the killing.  Ukraine is Europe's war - that has been cheered on by the Europeans. And they have NO intention of fighting or solving the conflict. They want the United States to fight their fight - although they have the manpower, money and militaries to win this war or bring it to an end.

 

It's Europe's war - but once again, they need the USA to solve it.

 

How pitiful.

 

Mike [ @cubsfan ],

 

That above post of yours made me chuckle a bit, however, and as always, there are nuances, shades and details to everything. I'll try to level things out a bit in a post here in this topic tomorrow, my local time. I think it could perhaps be useful for all of us dissecting things a bit more, to perhaps provide  a more nuanced view at certain things related to it.

 

Let me just say here that I think to a certain extent you may be right. But things here in Europe related to it are actually by now changing at warp speed, etc.

Edited August 16, 2025 by John Hjorth

[cubsfan]

16 minutes ago, John Hjorth said:

 

Mike [ @cubsfan ],

 

That above post of yours made me chuckle a bit, however, and as always, there are nuances, shades and details to everything. I'll try to level things out a bit in a post here in this topic tomorrow, my local time. I think it could perhaps be useful for all of us dissecting things a bit more, to perhaps provide  a more nuanced view at certain things related to it.

 

Let me just say here that I think to a certain extent you may be right. But things here in Europe related to it are actually by now changing at warp speed, etc.

 

Wonderful!

[whiskybravo]

48 minutes ago, cubsfan said:

 

Note the totally ungrateful response from the hapless Europeans and the MSM.

Like a pack of second guessers - hoping Trump is not successful - while they do nothing. One man is trying to stop the killing.  Ukraine is Europe's war - that has been cheered on by the Europeans. And they have NO intention of fighting or solving the conflict. They want the United States to fight their fight - although they have the manpower, money and militaries to win this war or bring it to an end.

 

It's Europe's war - but once again, they need the USA to solve it.

 

How pitiful.

We are here in Italy and had dinner with friends and their son an officer in the army.  He said that his colleagues understand what Trump is doing by pushing them to step up. On the other hand, they are apprehensive about any diminished US backing.  He said they don’t feel comfortable relying on other countries and that France is the worst.

 

They and others we have told were shocked when we mentioned that Trump carried the Italian American vote by a significant margin. Shocked!  I guess their media doesn’t want them knowing that.  

[John Hjorth]

Just to stir the pot a bit [ , j/k ] :

 

Reuters [August 14^th 2025] : Trump told Norwegian minister he wants Nobel Prize, newspaper says.

 

- - - o 0 o - - -

 

Politico - News - Politics [August 14^th 2025] : Trump cold-called Norwegian minister to ask about Nobel Peace Prize

 

Subtitle : American president angles for top diplomatic award while world watches his summit with Russian leader Vladimir Putin.

 

- - - o 0 o - - -

 

Related to my 'stir the pot' and 'j/k' above :

 

Danish : 

 

"Den der kun tager sjov for sjov og alvor kun alvorligt han har faktisk fattet begge dele lige dårligt!" [<- In Danish, it at rhymes],

-Piet Hein, a Gruk,

 

English :

 

"He who only takes jokes for fun and seriousness only seriously has actually understood both equally badly!",

- Piet Hein, a Grook.

 

- - - o 0 o - - -

 

It's not that long ago, I made a post here on CoB&F subtle elaborating about the differencies between medals and orders among decorations. 

[Gregmal]

lol soooo smart. They’re reaaallly showing us! All of em regret it and all they’ve done is make shit stuff like Jack 7 premium products which guess what? When they come back, they’re gonna cost way more!

 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/toronto-bye-bourbon-us-trade-war-1.7602431

[Parsad]

7 hours ago, whiskybravo said:

Thank you for having introduced calm logic into the discussion.  Sanjeev’s posts I enjoy for their humorous bite.

 

If I couldn't laugh at politics I would die!  So it's for my own survival.  Cheers!

[cubsfan]

1 hour ago, whiskybravo said:

We are here in Italy and had dinner with friends and their son an officer in the army.  He said that his colleagues understand what Trump is doing by pushing them to step up. On the other hand, they are apprehensive about any diminished US backing.  He said they don’t feel comfortable relying on other countries and that France is the worst.

 

They and others we have told were shocked when we mentioned that Trump carried the Italian American vote by a significant margin. Shocked!  I guess their media doesn’t want them knowing that.  

 

You still in Italy! Must be nice @whiskybravo....

 

You know my wife is French. Can't stand Macron - failed leader of France. He prances around shilling for Ukraine to keep the war going - with no intention of supplying backing - all talk and no action. Unfortunately they are stuck with the guy for another 3 years. 

[cubsfan]

1 hour ago, John Hjorth said:

Just to stir the pot a bit [ , j/k ] :

 

Reuters [August 14^th 2025] : Trump told Norwegian minister he wants Nobel Prize, newspaper says.

 

- - - o 0 o - - -

 

Politico - News - Politics [August 14^th 2025] : Trump cold-called Norwegian minister to ask about Nobel Peace Prize

 

Subtitle : American president angles for top diplomatic award while world watches his summit with Russian leader Vladimir Putin.

 

- - - o 0 o - - -

 

Related to my 'stir the pot' and 'j/k' above :

 

Danish : 

 

"Den der kun tager sjov for sjov og alvor kun alvorligt han har faktisk fattet begge dele lige dårligt!" [<- In Danish, it at rhymes],

-Piet Hein, a Gruk,

 

English :

 

"He who only takes jokes for fun and seriousness only seriously has actually understood both equally badly!",

- Piet Hein, a Grook.

 

- - - o 0 o - - -

 

It's not that long ago, I made a post here on CoB&F subtle elaborating about the differencies between medals and orders among decorations. 

 

Keep the Nobel Prize - it's meaniless at this point.

 

If they were dumb and corrupt enough to give it to Obama for doing nothing, they won't be smart enough to give it to someone that deserves it, that's for sure!

[dwy000]

3 hours ago, whiskybravo said:

We are here in Italy and had dinner with friends and their son an officer in the army.  He said that his colleagues understand what Trump is doing by pushing them to step up. On the other hand, they are apprehensive about any diminished US backing.  He said they don’t feel comfortable relying on other countries and that France is the worst.

 

They and others we have told were shocked when we mentioned that Trump carried the Italian American vote by a significant margin. Shocked!  I guess their media doesn’t want them knowing that.  

How do you know Trump carried the Italian vote (by a large margin)?  Where are you getting nationwide ethnic voting details?  Any idea how theyre defining "Italian"?  Curious because id love to see this data for other countries. 

[Spekulatius]

4 hours ago, cubsfan said:

 

Note the totally ungrateful response from the hapless Europeans and the MSM.

Like a pack of second guessers - hoping Trump is not successful - while they do nothing. One man is trying to stop the killing.  Ukraine is Europe's war - that has been cheered on by the Europeans. And they have NO intention of fighting or solving the conflict. They want the United States to fight their fight - although they have the manpower, money and militaries to win this war or bring it to an end.

 

It's Europe's war - but once again, they need the USA to solve it.

 

How pitiful.

How pitiful it is to arrange a meeting with Putin on US soil increasing his legitimacy, do so without a plan and of course Putin is doing his thing anyways . As for Europeans war, this is sort of true in geographical sense, but given that Russia is allied with  Iran and China and North Korea, it’s not entirely correct either . I don’t know any one who has cheered it either or asked the US to join the fight.

 

He is clearly bending over backwards for Putin and what did he get in return?

[dwy000]

11 minutes ago, Spekulatius said:

How pitiful it is to arrange a meeting with Putin on US soil increasing his legitimacy, do so without a plan and of course Putin is doing his thing anyways . As for Europeans war, this is sort of true in geographical sense, but given that Russia is allied with  Iran and China and North Korea, it’s not entirely correct either . I don’t know any one who has cheered it either or asked the US to join the fight.

 

He is clearly bending over backwards for Putin and what did he get in return?

There was definitely a plan.  Someone left it on the printer at the hotel. 

[Sweet]

I’ve been highly critical of Trump’s naivety when it comes to Ukraine and his blatant lies about who said, did or started what.

 

But it also looks to me that Putin is ready to stop the war.  The BBC reports:

 

”Putin reportedly presented Trump a peace offer that would require Ukraine to withdraw from the Donetsk region of the Donbas, in return for Russia freezing the front lines in Zaporizhzhia and Kherson.”

 

There is shock in Europe about Trump’s pushing for this, but if the offer above is accurate, it’s a significant softening from Putin, and I feel that an end to the this war (there may be another) might be close.

 

Edited August 16, 2025 by Sweet

[cubsfan]

15 minutes ago, Spekulatius said:

How pitiful it is to arrange a meeting with Putin on US soil increasing his legitimacy, do so without a plan and of course Putin is doing his thing anyways . As for Europeans war, this is sort of true in geographical sense, but given that Russia is allied with  Iran and China and North Korea, it’s not entirely correct either . I don’t know any one who has cheered it either or asked the US to join the fight.

 

He is clearly bending over backwards for Putin and what did he get in return?

 

It's completely juvenile to protest Putin's legitimacy on being hosted by the USA.

Trump is trying to solve a war - unlike anyone else. There are hundreds of thousands of lives at stake, as well as the future of Ukraine and Europe.

 

You're so concerned about "optics" - since the Europeans have done absolutely NOTHING to bring this horrible war to a conclusion.

 

 

[Spekulatius]

6 minutes ago, Sweet said:

I’ve been highly critical of Trump’s naivety when it comes to Ukraine and his blatant lies about who said, did or started what.

 

But it also looks to me that Putin is ready to stop the war.  The BBC reports:

 

”Putin reportedly presented Trump a peace offer that would require Ukraine to withdraw from the Donetsk region of the Donbas, in return for Russia freezing the front lines in Zaporizhzhia and Kherson.”

 

There is shock in Europe about Trump’s pushing for this, but if the offer above is accurate, it’s a significant softening from Putin, and I feel that an end to the this war (there may be another) might be close.

 

Donbas is heavily fortified. Essentially  this would mean Ukraine giving up territory for not much in return but a promise from Putin which is worth nothing. Giving up heavily fortified territory sets up the Russian for more gains if they would push further.

This would only be an option if the Nato guarantees the borders for this deal.

[Sweet]

7 minutes ago, Spekulatius said:

Donbas is heavily fortified. Essentially  this would mean Ukraine giving up territory for not much in return but a promise from Putin which is worth nothing. Giving up heavily fortified territory sets up the Russian for more gains if they would push further.

This would only be an option if the Nato guarantees the borders for this deal.

If it’s a trick, fair enough.  But they do get something in return.  The war ends, their country is flooded with arms.  European countries are reported to send troops to guarantee the peace.

[John Hjorth]

35 minutes ago, Sweet said:

I’ve been highly critical of Trump’s naivety when it comes to Ukraine and his blatant lies about who said, did or started what.

 

But it also looks to me that Putin is ready to stop the war.  The BBC reports:

 

”Putin reportedly presented Trump a peace offer that would require Ukraine to withdraw from the Donetsk region of the Donbas, in return for Russia freezing the front lines in Zaporizhzhia and Kherson.”

 

There is shock in Europe about Trump’s pushing for this, but if the offer above is accurate, it’s a significant softening from Putin, and I feel that an end to the this war (there may be another) might be close.

 

@Sweet,

 

The is much more to it than that. No European political leader of own right mind actually believes that Putin actually will stop there.

[Sweet]

7 minutes ago, John Hjorth said:

 

@Sweet,

 

The is much more to it than that. No European political leader of own right mind actually believes that Putin actually will stop there.

So what’s the point at which Europeans will accept peace then?

 

And if they won’t accept peace why don’t they put troops on the ground now?

 

A peace with European troops in Ukraine almost guarantees war with Europe should Russia break it.

 

Edited August 17, 2025 by Sweet

[Spekulatius]

7 minutes ago, Sweet said:

So what’s the point at which Europeans will accept peace then?

 

And if they won’t accept peace why don’t they put troops on the ground now?

 

A peace with European troops in Ukraine almost guarantees war with Europe should Russia break it.

 

I actually think this is the end game. This and NSTO membership to guarantee Ukraine’s borders post war. The war would be over tomorrow if Trump agrees to this. However without  Trump or the US it can’t happen because the US effectively controls NATO. Without explicit NATO backing this is tricky because Russia is a nuclear power far in excess of what Europe can muster (essentially just the French Force de Frappe because the Uk nuclear arsenal is controlled by the US effectively).

[Gregmal]

20 minutes ago, Sweet said:

So what’s the point at which Europeans will accept peace then?

 

And if they won’t accept peace why don’t they put troops on the ground now?

 

A peace with European troops in Ukraine almost guarantees war with Europe should Russia break it.

 

This is just it. The derangement never ends and as such, no peace. Like with matters relating to Trump, with anything Putin related, they already have their minds made up and nothing will ever change that.

[cubsfan]

13 minutes ago, Spekulatius said:

I actually think this is the end game. This and NSTO membership to guarantee Ukraine’s borders post war. The war would be over tomorrow if Trump agrees to this. However without  Trump or the US it can’t happen because the US effectively controls NATO. Without explicit NATO backing this is tricky because Russia is a nuclear power far in excess of what Europe can muster (essentially just the French Force de Frappe because the Uk nuclear arsenal is controlled by the US effectively).

 

Why didn't Europe do this last year, when they had Biden in their back pocket?

 

Should have been very easy.

[whiskybravo]

3 hours ago, dwy000 said:

How do you know Trump carried the Italian vote (by a large margin)?  Where are you getting nationwide ethnic voting details?  Any idea how theyre defining "Italian"?  Curious because id love to see this data for other countries. 

Although, detailed national exit-poll data for Italian Americans is limited, pre election voter surveys showed a 12% margin for Trump 

https://www.ia-policycenter.org/public-opinion-survey-italian-american-voters

 

Post election mapping analysis of NYC vote by neighborhood.  For instance see Staten Island.

 

https://calandrainstitute.org/data-snapshot-7-december-2024/

 

Or less scientifically, listen to the bellhop at Camp Creek Inn transplanted from Brooklyn: “He got the guinea vote.”  Or go out to eat at Harvest on Fort Pond in Montauk.  Chat with the folks there.

 

 

 

 

 

[whiskybravo]

4 hours ago, Sweet said:

I’ve been highly critical of Trump’s naivety when it comes to Ukraine and his blatant lies about who said, did or started what.

 

But it also looks to me that Putin is ready to stop the war.  The BBC reports:

 

”Putin reportedly presented Trump a peace offer that would require Ukraine to withdraw from the Donetsk region of the Donbas, in return for Russia freezing the front lines in Zaporizhzhia and Kherson.”

 

There is shock in Europe about Trump’s pushing for this, but if the offer above is accurate, it’s a significant softening from Putin, and I feel that an end to the this war (there may be another) might be close.

 

Agreed.  Is it really so unreasonable for Russians to govern the Russian speaking portion of the Donbas.

[dwy000]

26 minutes ago, whiskybravo said:

Although, detailed national exit-poll data for Italian Americans is limited, pre election voter surveys showed a 12% margin for Trump 

https://www.ia-policycenter.org/public-opinion-survey-italian-american-voters

 

Post election mapping analysis of NYC vote by neighborhood.  For instance see Staten Island.

 

https://calandrainstitute.org/data-snapshot-7-december-2024/

 

Or less scientifically, listen to the bellhop at Camp Creek Inn transplanted from Brooklyn: “He got the guinea vote.”  Or go out to eat at Harvest on Fort Pond in Montauk.  Chat with the folks there.

 

 

 

 

 

Thats kind of a stretch to get to Trump winning the Italian vote by a large margin. 

[Gregmal]

1 hour ago, dwy000 said:

Thats kind of a stretch to get to Trump winning the Italian vote by a large margin. 

Yea totally. Another example of asking for “data” to derail and then claim victory without presenting such “data”. I know TONS of north NJ, Staten Island, NYC guinzos… and I’d be shocked if the Trump margin was “only” 12%. It’s probably closer to 70-80%, so maybe 35% margin honestly. And again I don’t give a shit on being exact, because directionally I’m correct and it leads me to be where I need to be, so wasting time citing sources or looking for data that just confirms what I already know doesn’t do shit for me. 

[John Hjorth]

6 hours ago, whiskybravo said:

Agreed.  Is it really so unreasonable for Russians to govern the Russian speaking portion of the Donbas.

 

This is a void question. It's none of others business or concern. That should be determined by referendums in such suitable separated zones among the people living in Donbas, nobody else.

 

- - - o 0 o - - -

 

Not that far from Ukraine, but a now long time ago, actually 105 years, in 1920, such process with binding effect for all involved, was carried out among people in an area affected of eternal nationality tensions and arguing [i.e. barn ports on farms weren't painted in the same colour as all other wooden stuff on a farm, they were painted as either the Danish flag or the German flag, dual function as both barn port and marketing biilboard for owners nationality attitude , just to tease the neighbour every day! ], and the border between Germany and Denmark was actually moved a bit to the south, making Denmark larger, and Germany smaller, a part of NordSchleswig added to Denmark.

 

There are still people living in Denmark with a German mindset north of the border, and people living in Germany with a Danish mindset, but all accepted, meaning 'shut up, or move your own a** to the other side!'. Today they all live basically in peacefull co-existence, and all social associacitons based on national mindset are gradually disappering, for yonger generations won't deal with or listen such old and irrelevant *BS* from a past far away.  -And they all speak weird there, by the way!

 

105 years ago!, in 1920!, and now we are in 2025, where two guys meeting behind closed doors at a US military base in Alaska, both personally pursuing more less hidden agendas for prizes, 'deals', victories, success stories and more power, use these people as bargaining chips in a game to outsmart each other, both absolutely untrustworthy, and they both don't really care about these people.

 

- - - o 0 o - - -

 

What do you think Ukrainian people think and feel about that? -All Ukrainians!, that is.

 

It must be clear to everyone, that Ukrainians aren't in any way behaving and thinking like the average Russian Mr. & Mrs. Invanov.

Edited August 17, 2025 by John Hjorth