Political Posts

[Eng12345]

17 minutes ago, Spekulatius said:

Ukraine won’t exist in 3 month if Trump & Putin peace plans succeeds . From what we know, Trump has not pushed back on any Putin’s maximalist demands and those two are now close to each other. Putin’s maximalist demands means no Ukraine.

To be fair to the MAGAs - you should watch the clip. That's really not quite what he said. Just more twisting by the media. 

[Sweet]

10 hours ago, John Hjorth said:

 

@Sweet,

 

To me personally, Mike [ @cubsfan ] and other american CofB&F members have in this topic always had a valid point of the United States of America acting as a security firm for Europe without an agreement for billing for the services provided, since the Russian-Ukrainian war started.

 

The skin in the game here is different for Europe than for USA, that must by now be evident for everyone. Very humiliating and embarrassing for Europe by now, I would say.

 

Fix by now in progress.

 

All good, but about time.

Notice John how my question about why Trump says untrue things went unanswered.  There are no good answers to that question.  But to admit so would be to criticise Trump.

 

Regarding the valid points.  I’ve been saying this for years as a European.  Trump is right, but it was known before Trump too.

 

Edited March 10, 2025 by Sweet

[Sweet]

8 hours ago, cubsfan said:

 

The idiots in Europe should have negotiated a settlement 2 years ago, when they were dealing from a position of strength. But the little pimp Zelensky got so full of himself - he told the Russians to fuck off.

 

 Major, major fuck up for Europe & Ukraine. 

Now you expect Trump to wave a magic wand and everything will be just be dandy.

 

This is a control map of Ukraine around the approximate time the Russia - Ukraine talks broke down:

 

 

Not exactly a the position of strength you claim it was.

 

In terms of waving a magic wand, the only person who thinks they have one is Trump, who had repeatedly said that he would end the war on day 1.

He needs to swish that wand harder, we are nearly at 50 days.

 

[John Hjorth]

2 hours ago, Sweet said:

Notice John how my question about why Trump says untrue things went unanswered.  There are no good answers to that question.  But to admit so would be to criticise Trump.

 

Regarding the valid points.  I’ve been saying this for years as a European.  Trump is right, but it was known before Trump too.

 

 

@Sweet,

 

Wikipedia : Big lie

 

From the article :

 

Quote

... In the 21st century, the term has been applied to Donald Trump's and his allies' attempts to overturn the result of the 2020 U.S. presidential election, specifically the false claim that the election was stolen through massive voter and electoral fraud. The scale of the claims resulted in Trump supporters attacking the United States Capitol.[3][4] Later reports indicate that Trump knew he had genuinely lost the election while promoting the narrative.[5][6][7][8] Scholars say that constant repetition across many different forms of media is necessary for the success of the big lie technique, as is a psychological motivation for the public to believe the extreme assertions. ...

 

and

 

Quote

... Hitler's definition is given in Chapter 10 of Adolf Hitler's Mein Kampf (part of a single paragraph in both the German original and James Murphy's translation):

 

But it remained for the Jews, with their unqualified capacity for falsehood, and their fighting comrades, the Marxists, to impute responsibility for the downfall precisely to the man who alone had shown a superhuman will and energy in his effort to prevent the catastrophe which he had foreseen and to save the nation from that hour of complete overthrow and shame. By placing responsibility for the loss of the world war on the shoulders of Ludendorff they took away the weapon of moral right from the only adversary dangerous enough to be likely to succeed in bringing the betrayers of the Fatherland to Justice.

 

All this was inspired by the principle – which is quite true within itself – that in the big lie there is always a certain force of credibility; because the broad masses of a nation are always more easily corrupted in the deeper strata of their emotional nature than consciously or voluntarily; and thus in the primitive simplicity of their minds they more readily fall victims to the big lie than the small lie, since they themselves often tell small lies in little matters but would be ashamed to resort to large-scale falsehoods.

 

It would never come into their heads to fabricate colossal untruths, and they would not believe others could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously. Even though the facts which prove this to be so may be brought clearly to their minds, they will still doubt and waver and will continue to think there may be some other explanation. For the grossly impudent lie always leaves traces behind it, even after it has been nailed down, a fact which is known to all expert liars in this world and to all who conspire together in the art of lying.

 

— Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, vol. I, ch. X[9] ...

 

[John Hjorth]

10 hours ago, Spekulatius said:

It’s more than  Elon just insulting the Polish foreign minister. Starlink is an obvious security risk for any country that runs critical infrastructure on it, much more for military purpose,. I hope that Meloni cancels the deal - she is no dummy.  i guess any country that intends to use Starlink for critical communications will have similar thoughts and consider alternatives.

 

@Spekulatius,

 

Sure, think Huawei.

[Spekulatius]

Why nobody challenged Trump false statements?

The "Big Lie" Technique:

The "big lie" propaganda technique, often associated with Goebbels, involves repeatedly stating a falsehood, even a blatant lie, with such intensity and persistence that people eventually come to believe it
 

Thats why fact checking itself is evil also. Why do people believe lies? Because they want to and they re- inforce their existing beliefs. Critical thinking is hard work for the brain and people tend to take shortcuts to avoid it. Or like @dealraker pointed out, some people know that Trump lies but think it doesn’t matter because he will do the “right things” presumably. 
 

Here is the thing about pathological liers, they are almost never just liers, they do worse things than lying. We have a saying in Germany that “Wer Lügt, der stiehlt”, which means that “Liers will steal” (from you).

 

Of course you can say that all politicians will do this and it’s true, but there is line between propaganda and blatantly lying over and over.

 

IMO, we are living in a post truth world now, where you can crate your own truth island  in social media and probably get millions or even hundred millions to believe almost anything (5G chip implants anyone .)

 

What a world to be alive.

[cubsfan]

It really would be wonderful if Europe could get their act together after all the bluster and big talk.

Years to let this conflict get out of control with nothing but empty threats against Putin.

 

Vlad is laughing hard back at the Kremlin watching Macron and the rest with their catfight about

how they proceed. Italy, Poland, Germany, Hungary, Slovakia - all say - no soldiers.

 

What's really pathetic is Europe has the means to stand up to Putin, but not the backbone.

 

 

[Charlie]

5 hours ago, Spekulatius said:

Why nobody challenged Trump false statements?

The "Big Lie" Technique:

The "big lie" propaganda technique, often associated with Goebbels, involves repeatedly stating a falsehood, even a blatant lie, with such intensity and persistence that people eventually come to believe it
 

Thats why fact checking itself is evil also. Why do people believe lies? Because they want to and they re- inforce their existing beliefs. Critical thinking is hard work for the brain and people tend to take shortcuts to avoid it. Or like @dealraker pointed out, some people know that Trump lies but think it doesn’t matter because he will do the “right things” presumably. 
 

Here is the thing about pathological liers, they are almost never just liers, they do worse things than lying. We have a saying in Germany that “Wer Lügt, der stiehlt”, which means that “Liers will steal” (from you).

 

Of course you can say that all politicians will do this and it’s true, but there is line between propaganda and blatantly lying over and over.

 

IMO, we are living in a post truth world now, where you can crate your own truth island  in social media and probably get millions or even hundred millions to believe almost anything (5G chip implants anyone .)

 

What a world to be alive.

 

There is seldom one cockroach in the kitchen:

 

The first one (Elon) tried to manipulate our election.

The second one (Vance) told us that here is no free speech.

And the third one (Trump) is bullying everybody.

 

Other than that the behavior and reputation has been wonderful. 

 

4 more years to go.

Edited March 10, 2025 by Charlie

[flesh]

Lots of Lying by politicians. If you define lying as the conscious or unconscious willingness to not do the hard work it takes to not even partially speak an untruth, politicians are lying 95% of the time. That’s a high standard though as they are just people. Their self definition probably falls in line with most others practiced form of truth telling which is whether or not it feels honest at the time and or falls in line with what has been felt as honest in the recent past. “Whose song I sing whose bread I eat”. Generally to the degree that instincts are involved you’ll see a greater degree of lying. How many men lie to women more than to men? Who lies more when 100k is on the line vs not? 
 

I don’t believe the Don aka orange man, lies much more than others, I do believe he lies differently, his lies tend to be of a newer variety that doesn’t match with the lies of the more comfortable sort that have been recently felt as true. This is felt as more lying if you thought the comfortable lies of the past were true. 
 

If you’re a connoisseur of truth/lies, orange man isn’t surprising at all as the frequency/magnitude of lies haven’t changed much. 
 

Side note, I read Sam Harris book titled “lying” 12 years ago, it turns out it’s very difficult not to lie, also people tend to get very angry when you are seriously honest to the best of your ability at all times. If you really boil things down, you’ll find that “everything is a belief and all beliefs are untrue”. Vast majority of science is true if its assumptions are true, are they (?) and it’s scientific truth is often context/domain dependent as well. 
 

Buffett is more honest than most, he’d never get elected. 

[John Hjorth]

4 hours ago, Spekulatius said:

... IMO, we are living in a post truth world now, where you can crate your own truth island  in social media and probably get millions or even hundred millions to believe almost anything (5G chip implants anyone .)

 

What a world to be alive.

 

@Spekulatius,

 

Yes, it is indeed very thought-provoking.

 

Somehow, I can't help to think about George Orwell : Nineteen Eighty-Four here.

 

A bit symptomatical, here is a screen shot of the 're-post' button on Truth Social :

 

.  

[Sweet]

27 minutes ago, flesh said:

Lots of Lying by politicians. If you define lying as the conscious or unconscious willingness to not do the hard work it takes to not even partially speak an untruth, politicians are lying 95% of the time. That’s a high standard though as they are just people. Their self definition probably falls in line with most others practiced form of truth telling which is whether or not it feels honest at the time and or falls in line with what has been felt as honest in the recent past. “Whose song I sing whose bread I eat”. Generally to the degree that instincts are involved you’ll see a greater degree of lying. How many men lie to women more than to men? Who lies more when 100k is on the line vs not? 
 

I don’t believe the Don aka orange man, lies much more than others, I do believe he lies differently, his lies tend to be of a newer variety that doesn’t match with the lies of the more comfortable sort that have been recently felt as true. This is felt as more lying if you thought the comfortable lies of the past were true. 
 

If you’re a connoisseur of truth/lies, orange man isn’t surprising at all as the frequency/magnitude of lies haven’t changed much. 
 

Side note, I read Sam Harris book titled “lying” 12 years ago, it turns out it’s very difficult not to lie, also people tend to get very angry when you are seriously honest to the best of your ability at all times. If you really boil things down, you’ll find that “everything is a belief and all beliefs are untrue”. Vast majority of science is true if its assumptions are true, are they (?) and it’s scientific truth is often context/domain dependent as well. 
 

Buffett is more honest than most, he’d never get elected. 

Trump’s untruths are more brash and more frequent than just about any other politician I know.

 

The problem isn’t that HE says things which are untrue, it’s that other people don’t see it, don’t care, or believe it’s true.  It’s their sheepish behaviour, either through not questioning, not caring, or their faith based believing that is concerning.  Some of them are cultists who don’t know they are.

 

Some of the same people who are quick to call out CNN or Biden’s false claims - totally fairly I might add - are suspiciously quiet which Trump does the same.

 

[nsx5200]

48 minutes ago, John Hjorth said:

Somehow, I can't help to think about George Orwell : Nineteen Eighty-Four here.

 

Apologies for the off-topic, but I'm curious.   How well known is 1984 to a typical European?  FYI, 1984 is required reading at most high school's English curriculum in the U.S., AFAIK.  I'm not sure if I would've picked up those concepts had I been in a different educational system.  Would be interested to hear from those in other parts of the world.  TIA.

 

Addition:

More curious if these concepts are even taught under authoritarian educational systems, especially from non-Western countries.

Edited March 10, 2025 by nsx5200

[LC]

Orwell was an Engishman, just about every literate Brit I've met has read or at least heard of 1984

[Spekulatius]

56 minutes ago, John Hjorth said:

 

@Spekulatius,

 

Yes, it is indeed very thought-provoking.

 

Somehow, I can't help to think about George Orwell : Nineteen Eighty-Four here.

 

A bit symptomatical, here is a screen shot of the 're-post' button on Truth Social :

 

.  

Orwell definitely is having a Renaissance lately and not in a good way. I think 1984 is probably the most important book of the 20th  century.

 

Everyone in my generation read this book in school. We also discussed it in history class pertaining to then current events.

 

Trump is a master in applying the doublethink concept imo.

Edited March 10, 2025 by Spekulatius

[flesh]

14 minutes ago, Sweet said:

Trump’s untruths are more brash and more frequent than just about any other politician I know.

 

The problem isn’t that HE says things which are untrue, it’s that other people don’t see it, don’t care, or believe it’s true.  It’s their sheepish behaviour, either through not questioning, not caring, or their faith based believing that is concerning.  Some of them are cultists who don’t know they are.

 

Some of the same people who are quick to call out CNN or Biden’s false claims - totally fairly I might add - are suspiciously quiet which Trump does the same.

 

I could pull some AOC and Kamala quotes of the “defund the police” and “equity/equal outcomes” “hiding it from  parents if their child has claimed they are a different gender”  and similar variety that likely represents 25% of the dem party including half my extended family, from the last 5 years that if seen through to the end would’ve been extremely damaging and more Orwellian if executed than what trumps looking to execute imo. 

Of course it’s true that trumps rhetoric matters more, hes president, Kamala was close and I believe she wouldve done her best with far left ideologies once president insofar as she could without showing it in her first term to get re-elected. 
 

I disagree with the implied cult assumption proportionally between the parties. However my Bayesian prior that may not be shared by others is that the woke left is a cult and large/growing. If by cult we mean dogmatically religious about their ideology distanced from our best forms of truth telling and time tested beliefs. 
 

Calling out trump. I’ve heard about a meme coin he’s involved with, sounds really bad and might be if true. Javier milei, same thing ish. His first term was pretty mild in terms of legislation. Clearly can’t judge this one at this point based on outcomes. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Sweet]

27 minutes ago, flesh said:

I could pull some AOC and Kamala quotes of the “defund the police” and “equity/equal outcomes” “hiding it from  parents if their child has claimed they are a different gender”  and similar variety that likely represents 25% of the dem party including half my extended family, from the last 5 years that if seen through to the end would’ve been extremely damaging and more Orwellian if executed than what trumps looking to execute imo. 

Of course it’s true that trumps rhetoric matters more, hes president, Kamala was close and I believe she wouldve done her best with far left ideologies once president insofar as she could without showing it in her first term to get re-elected. 
 

I disagree with the implied cult assumption proportionally between the parties. However my Bayesian prior that may not be shared by others is that the woke left is a cult and large/growing. If by cult we mean dogmatically religious about their ideology distanced from our best forms of truth telling and time tested beliefs. 
 

Calling out trump. I’ve heard about a meme coin he’s involved with, sounds really bad and might be if true. Javier milei, same thing ish. His first term was pretty mild in terms of legislation. Clearly can’t judge this one at this point based on outcomes. 

 

 

 

 

 

You’re arguing parts of my comments which aren’t there.

 

There is no implied argument in my post that the cultists differ between Dems and GOP.  For the purposes of this conversation I don’t give a crap how they stack up.

 

I’m not suggesting that the defund the police, gender theory, and much of the other stuff woke stuff is not a cult.  It most definitely IS a cult in my view.

I’m saying if it wasn’t okay when they did it, why is it ok when Trump does it?

 

 

Edited March 10, 2025 by Sweet

[flesh]

I agree, it’s never okay and we need free speech to sort it out, the freest type of free. 
 

By all means call out all bullshit when you’re confident you’ve done the work to know you have a good case. 
 

I’ll start, Trumps Desire for money and fame/promotion are repulsive. His lifelong yearning for young women shows his immaturity and need to meet the most animalistic needs. I’m glad despite what he might do for our country that my son won’t see him as an example. Etc
 

Since I threw a stone,  I’ll just say that half of what I did to make money was total bullshit, a real shame. Legalized stealing. I’m glad I know that. I lied tens of thousands of times. It’s called sales/marketing. Etc. 

 

Given the existential nature of the situation I’d like trump to raise taxes on the wealthy, short term if necessary in addition to his other ideas to raise rev. 
 

Maybe cubs can call out some of what he sees in trumps actions or policies that aren’t ideal. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 10, 2025 by flesh

[Parsad]

Another week in the Trump administration gone by...50 days I believe and he's hit all the targets he said he would in his first few days:

 

• Ended Ukrainian/Russian war...nope!
• Ended Israel/Gaza war...nope!
• Found tens of billions of savings from DOGE...nope!
• Stock market booming...nope!
• Economy booming...nope!
• Creating millions and millions of jobs...nope!
• Fixed Obamacare...nope!
• Fixed crooked media...nope!
• Got Greenland to bend the knee...nope!
• Got Canada to bend the knee...nope!
• Retail and restaurant industry booming...nope!
• Good news...price of eggs dropped 5 cents a dozen and people should buy chickens for their backyard so they have their own eggs!  Also, Mike Myers makes a great Elon Musk on SNL!

 

MAGA...Mistakes America Gets Again!  Cheers!

[Gregmal]

13 minutes ago, Parsad said:

Another week in the Trump administration gone by...50 days I believe and he's hit all the targets he said he would in his first few days:

 

• Ended Ukrainian/Russian war...nope!
• Ended Israel/Gaza war...nope!
• Found tens of billions of savings from DOGE...nope!
• Stock market booming...nope!
• Economy booming...nope!
• Creating millions and millions of jobs...nope!
• Fixed Obamacare...nope!
• Fixed crooked media...nope!
• Got Greenland to bend the knee...nope!
• Got Canada to bend the knee...nope!
• Retail and restaurant industry booming...nope!
• Good news...price of eggs dropped 5 cents a dozen and people should buy chickens for their backyard so they have their own eggs!  Also, Mike Myers makes a great Elon Musk on SNL!

 

MAGA...Mistakes America Gets Again!  Cheers!

It’s funny how invested some of you guys seem to be in writing the narrative in such short order. Meanwhile you guys had all sorts of patience and no criticism the previous four years on which many of those issues were also on display. I don’t recall any of you folks so adamantly complaining about no peace in Ukraine or Gaza, nor did I recall any concerns about government waste lol Weird 

[Ulti]

1 hour ago, flesh said:

Maybe cubs can call out some of what he sees in trumps actions or policies that aren’t ideal. 

One of the biggest I see is the deliberate attempt to destroy the checks and balance system here in the USA that

keeps both parties somewhat in line no matter who is in power 

[cubsfan]

1 hour ago, flesh said:

 

Maybe cubs can call out some of what he sees in trumps actions or policies that aren’t ideal. 

 

I'm pretty good with most of his policies.

 

Personally, I'd like to see a little more sympathy for those impacted by DOGE.

Losing your job because of layoffs is pretty brutal. It's not funny, nor is it a wonderful thing.

These folks will need to find new jobs - and I'm certainly sympathetic to that - and the adminstration should feel for these folks.

 

Obviously, when Clinton and Biden threw miners, fossil fuel workers, and pipeline workers out of work - they show zero regards for the jobless. Their answer was go learn how to code. Basically, tough shit.

 

 

[Ghost]

47 minutes ago, Parsad said:

Another week in the Trump administration gone by...50 days I believe and he's hit all the targets he said he would in his first few days:

 

• Ended Ukrainian/Russian war...nope!
• Ended Israel/Gaza war...nope!
• Found tens of billions of savings from DOGE...nope!
• Stock market booming...nope!
• Economy booming...nope!
• Creating millions and millions of jobs...nope!
• Fixed Obamacare...nope!
• Fixed crooked media...nope!
• Got Greenland to bend the knee...nope!
• Got Canada to bend the knee...nope!
• Retail and restaurant industry booming...nope!
• Good news...price of eggs dropped 5 cents a dozen and people should buy chickens for their backyard so they have their own eggs!  Also, Mike Myers makes a great Elon Musk on SNL!

 

MAGA...Mistakes America Gets Again!  Cheers!

 

USA Federal Debt:  36 Trillion

USA Federal deficit: Let's call it 1 trillion

China trade surplus:  Let's call it 900B

 

- "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results"  

 

I don't like Trump's methods, and I question his motives...but he is not accepting the status quo. 

[Sweet]

33 minutes ago, Gregmal said:

It’s funny how invested some of you guys seem to be in writing the narrative in such short order. Meanwhile you guys had all sorts of patience and no criticism the previous four years on which many of those issues were also on display. I don’t recall any of you folks so adamantly complaining about no peace in Ukraine or Gaza, nor did I recall any concerns about government waste lol Weird 

 

Trump set himself up to fail on a lot of these by saying a lot of wild stuff.  
 

You used to rip Powell and his handling of the economy, but it’s tumbleweeds with Trump’s tariffs.  These things unfortunately work both ways.
 

[Gregmal]

5 minutes ago, Sweet said:

 

Trump set himself up to fail on a lot of these by saying a lot of wild stuff.  
 

You used to rip Powell and his handling of the economy, but it’s tumbleweeds with Trump’s tariffs.  These things unfortunately work both ways.
 

Ive stated I think the tariffs are useless and just a negotiating tactic. That hasn't changed even though it seems every 3 days people are trying to draw new conclusions from things that take months/quarters/ years to really play out. 

[Sweet]

5 minutes ago, Gregmal said:

Ive stated I think the tariffs are useless and just a negotiating tactic. That hasn't changed even though it seems every 3 days people are trying to draw new conclusions from things that take months/quarters/ years to really play out. 

Fair enough.  I think the tariffs should be used in certain circumstances, and particularly against a certain country that also begins with C, but that country isn’t Canada.