Political Posts

[cubsfan]

31 minutes ago, Gregmal said:

It’s a question that most Westerners are not intellectually capable of answering. Some are just naive, some are intentionally dishonest, and most I think are what I’d call benevolently dishonest. Their brains hardwired by years and even decades of propaganda. Everything is framed through black and white, good vs evil, us vs themisms. They’re just hardwired to simplify everything down to (insert them) as bad, evil, dictator, imperialist, etc. Then they take us/our side and immediately default to good/insert the storyline. It’s too hard to think, let alone utter anything contrary to the he narrative that has already painted such a stark picture as the puppets fear the noose waiting for them if they don’t go with the program.

 

My favorite example is here. Most evil /dictator/imperialist Putin rhetoric almost immediately jumps to “insert most pro-Western narrative” around Crimea. Most common being it was “seized”, as Russia “invaded a sovereign nation”….well, imagine only telling the Palestinian story starting in November 2023? Oh wow how dishonest and misleading that would be! But some have their agendas, others just don’t know any better. 
 

Really what occurred, is for years/decades, Russia and Putin made very clear their lines in the sand with Ukraine/NATO/western meddling. What’s always conveniently left out of the Crimea story is how the US government and politicians consistently meddled in Ukraine, eventually prompting a coup, and helping overthrow a democratically elected government! Whoops! So, with that backdrop, one could argue that at some point Russia is forced to “put their foot down/stand up to the aggressor”. But hey, don’t take my word for it! The same people brainlessly taking “our side” like a bunch of fans on a Liverpool fan club message board, will claim out of the other side of their mouth, that the US needs to “take action” or “send a clear message” quite often! Whether it be with Ukraine or Taiwan, etc. Yes! No one else is able to draw their line in the sand, or use national security as a defense, only us, because WE are good and THEY are evil! 
 

So yea, that’s why this thread sucks. It’s the same rooting and fanboying and prescribed narratives and not a whole lot of anything useless or balanced. 

 

Put me down as a confused Westerner 3 years ago. I was all for Ukraine Nato membership and taking it to Russia on the offensive. A couple key posters changed my mind. Because you are right, the media narrative painted was totally dishonest, and I was too stupid to realize the complexity of the roots of the conflict. It's not black & white - and we don't belong there.

 

The USA has no business being in Ukraine - we can't get out fast enough.

Edited March 3, 2025 by cubsfan

[cubsfan]

1 hour ago, james22 said:

 

 

Fabulous clip. Thank you.

[Ghost]

.... "The USA has no business being in Ukraine - we can't get out fast enough."  

I do not believe American troops are actively engaged in the war, the USA is just sending over weapons...for free under Biden and now Mr. Trump wants payment. 

 

The Ukrainians WANT to fight the Russians, until a deal that ensures their survival as a country.  Good ole business tactics would be to sell weapons to both sides and make a "killing"  

Not to mention if you believe mass media..you have neo-Nazis fighting the Russians...

 

 

 

[Gregmal]

The US has been “in” Ukraine for decades. It’s not always “physical” like when John McCain went over there in 2014 to undermi.…”promote democracy”….

Edited March 3, 2025 by Gregmal

[John Hjorth]

To those of you American friends here on CofB&F, who wan't USA 'out' of here, what do you really mean by that?

 

[Please note here, that I personally agree with you as a basis, that this 'tiny' issue of a war between two European countries is actually none  of the USAs business, it's Europe's issue, and should be fixed accordingly.]

 

Why are you even here already? - You see : You never really left 80 years ago, right? 

 

Visual Capitalist - Maps [February 18^th 2025] : Mapped: Every Known U.S. Military Base Overseas

 

[https://www.visualcapitalist.com/mapped-every-known-u-s-military-base-overseas/]

 

 

Zoom-in on Europe :

 

 

What is your intention with these bases? I haven't counted them, they are not countless, but they are for sure many!

 

Will you 'DOGE' them? [For military bases, it's called 'BRAC' [Link]]

Edited March 4, 2025 by John Hjorth

[Gregmal]

33 minutes ago, John Hjorth said:

To those of you American friends here on CofB&F, who wan't USA 'out' of here, what do you really mean by that?

 

[Please note here, that I personally agree with you as a basis, that this 'tiny' issue of a war between two European countries is actually none  of the USAs business, it's Europe's issue, and should be fixed accordingly.]

 

Why are you even here already? - You see : You never really left 80 years ago, right? 

 

Visial Capitalist - Maps [February 18^th 2025] : Mapped: Every Known U.S. Military Base Overseas

 

[https://www.visualcapitalist.com/mapped-every-known-u-s-military-base-overseas/]

 

 

Zoom-in on Europe :

 

 

What is your intention with these bases? I haven't counted them, they are not countless, but they are for sure many!

 

Will you 'DOGE' them? [For military bases, it's called 'BRAC' [Link]]

The ruling class loves playing Stratego on real boards with real human beings. It’s the ultimate flex for morally void egomaniacs. They always find reasons to keep going, mostly catering to irrationalities and never ending loops of propaganda. “Wanna know why we can’t leave Russia/China alone? Because we need to keep Putin/Xi in check otherwise they’ll never stop looking to expand the empire!”….meanwhile in reality Putin and Xi have been around forever(remember they’re dictators who rig elections) but….the best we can come up with is Hong Kong and Crimea in contextless vacuums lol?

 

I don’t like wars, and I think governments killing their people is reprehensible. US is among the worst at this. 
 

We get wars by meddling in others business and by operating with impure motives. It’s how 9/11 happened, it’s how Ukraine happened. It’s the 21st century, the world and nations won’t and don’t just go around randomly starting massive wars with huge casualty numbers for no reason, with no provocation. Tell me the last time Switzerland was at war with anyone? How about Cayman Islands? New Zealand? Problem is our people are brainwashed by our culture. Probably the only thing that unites the country is their warmongering passions.

Edited March 3, 2025 by Gregmal

[flesh]

Not sure your point about bases. Seems a question of a different sort vs should america pay 100s of billions to help non nato countries in or near Europe. 
 

im with Gregmal, why are we paying anything? 
 

Another question is, depending on what Europe does what should we do? 
That’s much harder. 
 

I’ve spent the last day trying to think of a analogically similar situation where the usa has some border countries fighting each other and Europe gives one of them 100bs and can’t think of any but maybe I’m not creative enough. 
 

Pretty sure Europe and Europeans would just assume we can handle it. 

Edited March 3, 2025 by flesh

[cubsfan]

There's enough disagreement on this issue now for the USA to just disengage for good.

$200B-300B later and a country leader that feels the USA is somehow obligated to his war WITHOUT our input is really the final straw.  We should be done. The USA has done Ukraine a tremendous amount of good for the last 3 years. Citizens have had enough.

 

It's Europes war. Huge industrial & manpower base. Time to start the wartime economy.

No more USA involvement - no manpower or money.  Europe is perfectly capable - it just

needs to be done.

 

Strategically speaking - the USA has no business pushing war with Russia when the citizens of this country absolutely have voted against it. We are still a democracy - by the people, for the people.

 

The USA has many, many social, economic and strategic difficulties built up over the last couple of decades - Ukraine is clearly one we don't need.

 

The President is just conveying the substance of this message, but few are accepting it.

 

 

[Parsad]

On 3/2/2025 at 3:02 PM, LC said:

@Parsad Is there a way to ignore specific topics? After multiple pages of menswear discussion I've had enough

 

Yes, don't go to the threads that say " - Political".  There's only four...so avoid them. 

 

Anyone who posts political stuff on other threads gets a 30-day ban, so feel free to whistleblow and contact me if you find that is so.  That's about the only way to monitor this stuff and keep it contained. 

 

Cheers!

[Parsad]

3 hours ago, Gregmal said:

Like it’s cray how few are even like “why is the United States involved with Ukraine/Taiwan in the first place?”. And even then, those that can ask that, how many get snared in the “because if we don’t stop them, they’ll take over the world!” propaganda. 

 

Kind of what the Brits probably said 250 years ago.  They lost and their country relegated to a "has been." 

 

In the last 25 years, China GDP up 1,000%...in the last 25 years, US GDP up 300%.  The U.S. isn't preserving democracy on a global basis, but preserving their position as the global leader in economics and military power.

 

Otherwise, you can just call yourself Great Britain Two!  Cheers!

[Xerxes]

1 hour ago, flesh said:

Another question is, depending on what Europe does what should we do? 
That’s much harder. 
 

I’ve spent the last day trying to think of a analogically similar situation where the usa has some border countries fighting each other and Europe gives one of them 100bs and can’t think of any but maybe I’m not creative enough. 
 

Pretty sure Europe and Europeans would just assume we can handle it. 

 

 

Europe, Australia, NZ and Canada supported U.S. (maybe not on the American continent) but supported U.S. global hegemony in the Korean War, less so in the Vietnam War, in the Gulf War and much of the Cold War.

 

U.S. chose to enter the contest of great power post-1945 and chose to enforce that hegemony for decades on. A by-product of that was also helping Europe and Japan (weakened by world wars) not to succumb to the communism.

 

But you cannot now, just decide that none of that happened, and we (U.S.) did all that for others. Nope.

 

Nothing is wrong with examining the past and questioning the path forward, but let's us also not re-write history.

 

 

 

 

Edited March 4, 2025 by Xerxes

[Gregmal]

21 minutes ago, Parsad said:

 

Kind of what the Brits probably said 250 years ago.  They lost and their country relegated to a "has been." 

 

In the last 25 years, China GDP up 1,000%...in the last 25 years, US GDP up 300%.  The U.S. isn't preserving democracy on a global basis, but preserving their position as the global leader in economics and military power.

 

Otherwise, you can just call yourself Great Britain Two!  Cheers!

Britain alienated too many countries getting into too many wars it couldn’t win. But again, we re in the 21st century, you mind your own business, you ll be fine. 

[Parsad]

US is stopping all military aid to Ukraine...breaking news right now.  Cheers!

[Sweet]

1 hour ago, flesh said:

I’ve spent the last day trying to think of a analogically similar situation where the usa has some border countries fighting each other and Europe gives one of them 100bs and can’t think of any but maybe I’m not creative enough.

You border Canada and Mexico lol.  Two very friendly countries.  Imagine you bordered China.  

[Parsad]

Now either Europe steps up, or poor Zelenskyy is dead man walking.  Putin will probably have him killed anyways, like he has with any one else who went against him.  Cheers!

[Sweet]

15 minutes ago, Xerxes said:

 

 

Europe, Australia, NZ and Canada supported U.S. (maybe not on the American continent) but supported U.S. global hegemony in the Korean War, less so in the Vietnam War, in the Gulf War and much of the Cold War.

 

U.S. chose to enter the contest of great power post-1945 and chose to enforce that hegemony for decades on. A by-product of that was also helping Europe and Japan (weakened by world wars) not to succumb to the communism.

 

But you cannot now, just decide that none of that happened, and we (U.S.) did all that for others. Nope.

 

Nothing is wrong with examining the past and questioning the path forward, but let's us also not re-write history.

 

 

 

 

100%
 

 

[Sweet]

Just now, Parsad said:

Now either Europe steps up, or poor Zelenskyy is dead man walking.  Putin will probably have him killed anyways, like he has with any one else who went against him.  Cheers!

Aid had basically stopped since Trump took office.  This was expected.  Europe seems to want to step up.  Hope they do.  Although I do think some form of peace is really the only option now.  But why would Putin agree to peace unless he gets everything he wants? 

[Parsad]

1 minute ago, Sweet said:

Aid had basically stopped since Trump took office.  This was expected.  Europe seems to want to step up.  Hope they do.  Although I do think some form of peace is really the only option now.  But why would Putin agree to peace unless he gets everything he wants? 

 

I think almost everyone wants peace...just some want security guarantees with any peace or economic agreement.  Cheers!

[Gregmal]

Do we really need to question whom has an incentive to keep the war going? It couldn't possibly be the guy who's now spent the past few years jet setting around like a celebrity, from Hollywood to DC, you name it, hanging out with celebrities and world leaders, taking in billions in unaudited cash, could it? He's on numerous occasions refused to work towards a resolution. Instead he just keeps demanding more money and more weapons and now that there's finally strings attached he throws a fit? 

[Santayana]

4 hours ago, Gregmal said:

Like it’s cray how few are even like “why is the United States involved with Ukraine/Taiwan in the first place?”. And even then, those that can ask that, how many get snared in the “because if we don’t stop them, they’ll take over the world!” propaganda. 

I grew up in the 70s, and it's weird to hear the "left" screaming about the domino effect.  If we really believe Ukraine needs to be defended at all costs, then accept that we're looking at another Vietnam. 

 

[Sweet]

5 hours ago, james22 said:

 

There was never an agreement not to expand NATO east, or that there would be no NATO enlargement.  There may have been a few words exchanged but an ‘agreement’ to that effect never existed.

 

In 2013 Ukraine was on the cusp of signing a trade association with the EU but the president at the last minute decided not to under pressure from Russia.  Greg said if you don’t meddle you don’t get wars - well Russia was meddling.  The civil unrest that followed threw the president out and the new parliament passed trade association law.

 

Ukraine was NOT about the join NATO.  The country wanted to join NATO but there was no membership talks ans NATO countries were divided as to whether Ukraine should join NATO.

 

With respect to the supposed peace agreement between Ukraine and Russia, nobody really knows how close it was to being signed.  Ukraine presented an agreement to Russia which Russia rejected.  Russia presented an agreement to Ukraine which it rejected.  Both sides walked away, not just Ukraine.

 

 

Edited March 4, 2025 by Sweet

[Sweet]

38 minutes ago, Parsad said:

 

I think almost everyone wants peace...just some want security guarantees with any peace or economic agreement.  Cheers!

yep.  Not sure how they get security guarantees to be honest.  I think Russia looks likely to get what it wants. 

 

34 minutes ago, Gregmal said:

Do we really need to question whom has an incentive to keep the war going? It couldn't possibly be the guy who's now spent the past few years jet setting around like a celebrity, from Hollywood to DC, you name it, hanging out with celebrities and world leaders, taking in billions in unaudited cash, could it? He's on numerous occasions refused to work towards a resolution. Instead he just keeps demanding more money and more weapons and now that there's finally strings attached he throws a fit? 

You know a lot about stocks Greg, but my god, you do gurgle so much shit from Putin’s ass.  And the thing is you don’t even seem to be aware you are doing it lol.  Nothing above is close to being a fact, it’s random ideas in your head that you think sound smart.  Sorry, I know that’s blunt, bordering even rude of me, but for someone clearly as intelligent as you it’s so out of character.

 

Edited March 4, 2025 by Sweet

[Gregmal]

3 minutes ago, Sweet said:

2013 Ukraine was on the cusp of signing a trade association with the EU but the president at the last minute decided not to under pressure from Russia.  Greg said if you don’t meddle you don’t get wars - well Russia was meddling.  The civil unrest that followed threw the president out and the new parliament passed trade association law.

Eh for the decade prior Russia was pretty clear joining NATO was a line in the sand. They gambled and lost, egged on by the US, John McCain and the CIA with their “democracy” rhetoric that had little genuine purpose other than provoking Russia.

[LC]

Putin could end the war any day he wants by removing his troops from Ukrainian land.

Lay the blame where it belongs.

[Gregmal]

12 minutes ago, Sweet said:

yep.  Not sure how they get security guarantees to be honest.  I think Russia looks likely to get what it wants. 

 

You know a lot about stocks Greg, but my god, you do gurgle so much shit from Putin’s ass.  And the thing is you don’t even seem to be aware you are doing it lol.  Nothing above is close to being a fact, it’s random ideas in your head that you think sound smart.  Sorry, I know that’s blunt, bordering even rude of me, but for someone clearly as intelligent as you it’s so out of character.

 

Classic textbook response. Disagree? Putins puppet. Misinformation. No offense taken, it’s the standard response. 
 

Zalensky has done all the things I listed. Like how embarrassing is this?

 

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2023/mar/09/oscars-volodymyr-zelenskiy-appearance-turned-down

 

He’s lobbying constantly for celebrity status and attention. Who TF, let alone someone supposedly in a war, has time to audition for the Oscars people? Attend TV and movie award shows? Hire talent agents to book appearances? Lmfao 

 

Edited March 4, 2025 by Gregmal