25% tariffs on Canadian and Mexican imports.

[Castanza]

13 minutes ago, gary17 said:

Americans probably have short memory - let's not forget who helped american diplomats out of iran.  who welcomed stranded americans to their homes after sept 11.  who stood shoulder to shoulder , sharing intlligence, etc on fighting terrisom.   we even had two michaels went to jail to execute a US warrant.   that's just what I know. many more examples I am sure.  

The American and Canadian military are tight. The Canadian military and the Canadian government are not. 

[cwericb]

21 minutes ago, Castanza said:

The American and Canadian military are tight. The Canadian military and the Canadian government are not. 

The current government in Canada and its predecessors have essentially ignored our military and it is pathetic for a country with such a proud military history.

 

But history is like a pendulum. Swings left then right, and repeat. About time to swing right.

[cubsfan]

54 minutes ago, gary17 said:

Americans probably have short memory - let's not forget who helped american diplomats out of iran.  who welcomed stranded americans to their homes after sept 11.  who stood shoulder to shoulder , sharing intlligence, etc on fighting terrisom.   we even had two michaels went to jail to execute a US warrant.   that's just what I know. many more examples I am sure.  

 

What are you talking about?   The USA & Canada are as close as allies can get. But they are individual countries with slightly different needs.

[LC]

Stumpy should be talking about taxing Russian and Chinese goods - the mutual antagonists of US and CA.

 

In my experience a lot of Americans casually dismiss Canada, because they are ignorant of our shared history. I still wear my Poppy every year! 

[Spekulatius]

4 hours ago, cubsfan said:

@cwericb  - Not to worry. The good old USA will always provide defense to Canada as we always have.  There are some benefits to having a contiguous border with the world's strongest military.

Call it "the free rider effect" - while we protect you, you don't have to fund it or worrry about it.

 

While the USA spends $800B , continue with your military spending of 1/100th of that number.

 

It must be nice to divert all those funds to your nonsense liberal government led by Trudeau.

Who is going to attack Canada? From where? Canada has land borders only with the US and none of the two has to worry about anything.

@gary17 is correct, Canada can put quite the hurt too the US economically. Trump likes to bully . Hopefully he does it where it matters namely Russia and China.

 

Instead he is trying his luck with Panama and Greenland.

 

[Whensthepaintdry?]

Maybe he has spent too much time playing RISK. Greenland is one of 3 ways to move your troops to Canada! 

Edited Thursday at 12:42 AM by Whensthepaintdry?

[cubsfan]

3 hours ago, cwericb said:

Yeah Cubs, but that Idiot is soon to be gone.

 

Anyone who thought that some smooth talking, entitled, left wing, part time drama teacher was qualified to run a country got what they deserved.

 

I am all for immigration. But really, I mean really, who thinks that in a country of less than 40 million, you can bring in one million people a year without requiring that a certain percentage be doctors, nurses, skilled workers, etc, etc, simply isn't playing with a full deck. I mean really! And then to give away a billion $ or so every time he appears on TV...

 

Now we have a well qualified candidate for PM. A guy who is an economist and banker and who served as governor of the Bank of Canada, then was hired away to head up the Bank of England and is now head of impact investing at Brookfield Asset Management. BUT, but he is running for the head of the party who gave us Trudeau. Ahh, what to do?

 

@cwericb - I hear ya.

 

Good to get rid of your loser Trudeau, and it's good we got rid of our loser, Biden.

 

Both our countries will be far better off.

 

 

Edited Thursday at 12:42 AM by cubsfan

[Castanza]

3 hours ago, cwericb said:

The current government in Canada and its predecessors have essentially ignored our military and it is pathetic for a country with such a proud military history.

 

But history is like a pendulum. Swings left then right, and repeat. About time to swing right.

The problem is once you get rid of experience, it’s impossible to get it back. Military knowledge and tactics compound at high levels and at troop levels. Lot of weird happenings throughout the covid era. 
 

Life goes on.

[cwericb]

3 hours ago, cubsfan said:

 

What are you talking about?   The USA & Canada are as close as allies can get. But they are individual countries with slightly different needs.

 

 

...and that justifies the President of the United States publicly threatening Canada with annexation? Threatening to punish Canada with tariffs? Threatening to force us into submission through an economic war? And this, after the many things we have done for the US over the years?

 

At best he is threatening our independence and at the very least he is publicly insulting and embarrassing Canada in front of the whole world. Who the f*ck does he think he is to threaten us like that?

 

And the border? Why does the United States think that it is Canada's (and Mexico's) responsibility to protect the American border? Isn't YOUR border YOUR responsibility? Sheesh!

 

Now, I suppose a lot in the US think this is all a big joke, but I can assure you that there are a LOT of Canadians who do not see this that way at all. Right now, people here are very concerned, but if this crap keeps up there are going to be a lot of very pissed off Canadians.

 

I live in an area that many Americans own summer homes, spend their summers enjoying our laid back way of life, our cooler weather and our many beaches and warm waters. Right now a lot of Canadians are very concerned and beginning to get pissed off at what we see as our neighbour stabbing us in the back.

 

Bottom line here is, why does your new administration want to pick a fight with their closest ally? For those in the US who think "Oh that's just Trump...". A lot of Canadians don't see it that way.  Some might remember that during Covid Mr. Trump tried to push Canada around and quickly backed down when he soon found that it wasn't that easy.

[gary17]

Xi and Putin must be having popcorns , watching the new world order live streaming ...     

I for one never liked the current Canadian government's policies, but bullying Canada is low.

 

Musk can bully Justin Trudeau on X, yet it's ok for X to shut down a local Vancouver pub for having a sign that reads "forever neighbours, never neighbors".    that's a bit much.  

 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/the-penthouse-marquee-hate-speech-allegation-1.7428625

 

 

 

Edited Thursday at 04:01 AM by gary17

[ICUMD]

7 hours ago, cwericb said:

 

At best he is threatening our independence and at the very least he is publicly insulting and embarrassing Canada in front of the whole world. Who the f*ck does he think he is to threaten us like that?

As a Canadian, I see it differently. 

 

Trump is being Trump. 

He gets his American support by being a brash hardcore patriot. He's got energy and he protects American interests.  That's his job, isn't it? 

 

Strong leaders make a stand. They are not there to make friends. Putin, zelensky, netenyahu, modi etc.  all examples of leaders who protect national interests fiercely.

 

So where are our leaders?  Who is protecting Canadian interests?  Oh right, we had Trudeau... Loved his pussy laugh when Trump told him to his face he would make a good governor of the 51st state.  Surprised he didn't kiss his feet.

 

Canada: no military, no identity,  no economy, no leadership. All crime, drugs and harbor for foreign agents/ terrorists. It will take some bitter medicine to right this ship.

 

We need a leader with cajones. Poilivere is the best option. He's got teeth and not a push over.  Carney is intelligent, but is too soft; plus that liberal party is a bunch of partying clowns.

[cwericb]

2 hours ago, ICUMD said:

We need a leader with cajones. Poilivere is the best option. He's got teeth and not a push over.  Carney is intelligent, but is too soft; plus that liberal party is a bunch of partying clowns.

 

 

Generally agree.  Just wish Carney was running for the for the Conservatives. Poilivere is a bit of a wild card and I wish he would announce some real policies other than "Axe the tax" which is getting a bit old. But barring some unforeseen catastrophe he will be Canada's next PM.

 

[Viking]

2 hours ago, cwericb said:

 

 

Generally agree.  Just wish Carney was running for the for the Conservatives. Poilivere is a bit of a wild card and I wish he would announce some real policies other than "Axe the tax" which is getting a bit old. But barring some unforeseen catastrophe he will be Canada's next PM.

I am not an expert on all that Pollievre has planned but:

- Eliminate the GST on new builds. That will be an immediate 5% reduction in cost. I think that is significant.

- Unshackle oil and gas production / particularly liquefied natural gas. Energy production is a key part of the Canadian economy. 

- Stop demonizing capitalism stop telling Canadians that the government is the solution to their problems. 
- My guess is the Conservatives will be reversing many of the recent laws the Liberals have introduced that makes it pretty much impossible to develop Canada’s resources. 
- My guess is the rapid growth of government agencies will slow. And better accountability/governance practices will be put in place. It should be very obvious to Canadians that the Liberals can’t actually run anything. 
- My guess is small businesses will be valued and not treated simply as piggy banks (a vehicle for the government to extract money from). 
- Crime - the current laws allowing repeat offenders to skip jail (so they repeat offend) is a joke (not the funny kind). 
- Safe supply of drugs - this has been a mess in BC. My guess is the Conservatives will return to a more traditional approach (in terms of federal support).
- Immigration - the Liberals have messed this up so badly over the past 5 years, my guess is there will be many things a Conservative government can do to get it back on the rails. 
 

The Liberals have implemented so many disastrous policies over the past 9 years the Conservatives will be busy for years correcting the mistakes.
 

Will the Conservatives go to far? Well if they do they will only be in for 4 years. 
 

Bottom line, Canada has shifted far further to the left than people seem to realize. If we stay that way, our economic well being will continue to decline. What is worse is the drumbeat message - capitalism is evil and the government is the answer. That will be a catastrophe for my kids generation. In short, the Liberals have been a slow moving train wreck. Canada needs a big change in direction. IMHO.
 

Edited Thursday at 03:41 PM by Viking

[cubsfan]

12 hours ago, cwericb said:

 

 

...and that justifies the President of the United States publicly threatening Canada with annexation? Threatening to punish Canada with tariffs? Threatening to force us into submission through an economic war? And this, after the many things we have done for the US over the years?

 

At best he is threatening our independence and at the very least he is publicly insulting and embarrassing Canada in front of the whole world. Who the f*ck does he think he is to threaten us like that?

 

And the border? Why does the United States think that it is Canada's (and Mexico's) responsibility to protect the American border? Isn't YOUR border YOUR responsibility? Sheesh!

 

Now, I suppose a lot in the US think this is all a big joke, but I can assure you that there are a LOT of Canadians who do not see this that way at all. Right now, people here are very concerned, but if this crap keeps up there are going to be a lot of very pissed off Canadians.

 

I live in an area that many Americans own summer homes, spend their summers enjoying our laid back way of life, our cooler weather and our many beaches and warm waters. Right now a lot of Canadians are very concerned and beginning to get pissed off at what we see as our neighbour stabbing us in the back.

 

Bottom line here is, why does your new administration want to pick a fight with their closest ally? For those in the US who think "Oh that's just Trump...". A lot of Canadians don't see it that way.  Some might remember that during Covid Mr. Trump tried to push Canada around and quickly backed down when he soon found that it wasn't that easy.

 

You totally miss the forest from the trees. It's called The Art of the Deal.

 

You ask for 80% and settle for 55%.

 

Canada has pathetic leadership, the USA has the same until Jan 20th.  

Fix your problem, like we are fixing ours. 

 

All the rest is simply a negotiation between two strong leaders as @ICUMD said.

If you are going to be a strong leader - you can't be a whinning little pussy like Biden/Trudeau, but you can be an abject failure as they have shown - and that will be their historical legacy. Failing their country.

Edited Thursday at 03:44 PM by cubsfan

[cwericb]

 

 

11 minutes ago, Viking said:

I am not an expert on all that Pollievre has planned but:

- Eliminate the GST on new builds. That will be an immediate 5% reduction in cost. I think that is significant.

- Unshackle oil and gas production / particularly liquefied natural gas. Energy production is a key part of the Canadian economy. 

- Stop demonizing capitalism stop telling Canadians that the government is the solution to their problems. 
- My guess is the Conservatives will be reversing many of the recent laws the Liberals have introduced that makes it pretty much impossible to develop Canada’s resources. 
- My guess is the rapid growth of government agencies will slow. And better accountability/governance practices will be put in place. It should be very obvious to Canadians that the Liberals can’t actually run anything. 
- My guess is small businesses will be valued and not treated simply as piggy banks (a vehicle for the government to extract money from). 
- Crime - the current laws allowing repeat offenders to skip jail (so they repeat offend) is a joke (not the funny kind). 
- Immigration - the Liberals have messed this up so badly over the past 5 years, my guess is there will be many things a Conservative government can do to get it back on the rails. 
 

The Liberals have implemented so many disastrous policies over the past 9 years the Conservatives will be busy for years correcting the mistakes.
 

Will the Conservatives go to far? Well if they do they will only be in for 4 years. 
 

Bottom line, Canada has shifted far further to the left than people seem to realize. If we stay that way, our economic well being will continue to decline. What is worse is the drumbeat message - capitalism is evil and the government is the answer. That will be a catastrophe for my kids generation. 
 

 

Would be nice if the Conservatives can pull that off.

 

But you know, it is the same old story over and over.

 

Liberals get in and spend, spend, spend. Then the Conservatives get in and have to raise taxes/cut programs to clean up the mess the Liberals have left. So then the voters get mad at the Conservatives and after a term or two and vote the Liberals back in. Rinse and repeat.

 

 

[SharperDingaan]

1 hour ago, cwericb said:

Generally agree.  Just wish Carney was running for the for the Conservatives. Poilivere is a bit of a wild card and I wish he would announce some real policies other than "Axe the tax" which is getting a bit old. But barring some unforeseen catastrophe he will be Canada's next PM.

 

 

Carney vs Poilievre is no contest, Poilievre loses; hence the current conservative political framing around Carney being an 'elitist', and not 'one of us'. The man comes from Fort Smith and Edmonton, hardly elitist!; yet was good enough to compete against the best in the world, at their own game, and win .. repeatedly (but 'no', can't have that, that's elitist!). Versus Poilievre who is the 5th consecutive leadership replacement in TEN YEARS of REPEATEDLY failing to even make a minority government. Carney also plays the goalie in ice hockey, and is no stranger to forwards taking shots and adroit stick handling; Poilievre .... not so much. 

 

Should Carney actually be the Liberal choice, there is a distinct possibility that Canada ends up with another minority government, and not a majority. Despite the current 20%+ lead, the conservatives would have blown it, AGAIN; and the insurance policy will get cashed in.

 

No political preference. We just want good governance, and experienced leadership that can push back against Trump. The colour of their party is pretty irrelevant.

 

SD

 

[cwericb]

4 minutes ago, cubsfan said:

 

You totally miss the forest from the trees. It's called The Art of the Deal.

 

You ask for 80% and settle for 55%.

 

Canada has pathetic leadership, the USA has the same until Jan 20th.  

Fix your problem, like we are fixing ours. 

 

All the rest is simply a negotiation between two strong leaders as @ICUMD said.

If you are going to be a strong leader - you can't be a whinning little pussy like Biden/Trudeau, but you can be an abject failure as they have shown - and that will be their historical legacy. Failing their country.

 

No Cubs, I know exactly what Trump is doing. I simply do not agree with his methods and eventually it will come back to haunt him and the people he represents. Do you really believe it is a good plan to piss off Canadians towards Americans? You may not see it from where you stand but there is a rising resentment towards Americans, and not just in Canada. This is NOT a good thing.

 

As far as Trudeau is concerned, he has been a total embarrassment to the Canadian people, but at least he hasn't made a point of going around the world pissing off people. 

[cubsfan]

1 minute ago, cwericb said:

 

No Cubs, I know exactly what Trump is doing. I simply do not agree with his methods and eventually it will come back to haunt him and the people he represents. Do you really believe it is a good plan to piss off Canadians towards Americans? You may not see it from where you stand but there is a rising resentment towards Americans, and not just in Canada. This is NOT a good thing.

 

As far as Trudeau is concerned, he has been a total embarrassment to the Canadian people, but at least he hasn't made a point of going around the world pissing off people. 

 

Politics, both domestic and international is a tough game. The NATO countries absolutely hated Trump after he laid down the law on NATO funding. NATO is far stronger because of it. 

That's all that is happening here - protecting our national interest. You make a change from losers and try for the reset. Thank god for elections.

 

Biden, around the world, was everyone's pal - good old Joe from Scranton - and a total failure.

 

Agree to disagree. 

[cwericb]

9 minutes ago, SharperDingaan said:

 

Carney vs Poilievre is no contest, Poilievre loses; hence the current conservative political framing around Carney being an 'elitist', and not 'one of us'. The man comes from Fort Smith and Edmonton, hardly elitist!; yet was good enough to compete against the best in the world, at their own game, and win .. repeatedly (but 'no', can't have that, that's elitist!). Versus Poilievre who is the 5th consecutive leadership replacement in TEN YEARS of REPEATEDLY failing to even make a minority government. Carney also plays the goalie in ice hockey, and is no stranger to forwards taking shots and adroit stick handling; Poilievre .... not so much. 

 

Should Carney actually be the Liberal choice, there is a distinct possibility that Canada ends up with another minority government, and not a majority. Despite the current 20%+ lead, the conservatives would have blown it, AGAIN; and the insurance policy will get cashed in.

 

No political preference. We just want good governance, and experienced leadership that can push back against Trump. The colour of their party is pretty irrelevant.

 

SD

 

 

Agree with most of this SD. I am familiar with Carney's history and have been a big fan since he was head of the BOC.  I can not think of a better person for PM. Perhaps best scenario here is a Conservative minority under Polly and Carney as leader of the opposition and then see how things play out?

[cwericb]

5 minutes ago, cubsfan said:

 

Thank god for elections.

Agree to disagree. 

 

Yup. You know that old Chinese curse ... "May you live in interesting times." Have a good day Cubs.

[cubsfan]

Just now, cwericb said:

 

Yup. You know that old Chinese curse ... "May you live in interesting times." Have a good day Cubs.

 

You too. Canada will always be our best ally. The last thing we need is another Mexico.

[SharperDingaan]

1 hour ago, cwericb said:

 

Agree with most of this SD. I am familiar with Carney's history and have been a big fan since he was head of the BOC.  I can not think of a better person for PM. Perhaps best scenario here is a Conservative minority under Polly and Carney as leader of the opposition and then see how things play out?

 

My own view is that it's either a Conservative/NDP minority, with the Conservatives on top, and the Liberals/Bloc in opposition; or a NDP/Liberal minority with the NDP on top, and the Conservatives/Bloc in opposition. Of the two; the NDP/Liberal (Singh/Carney) being the preferred combination.

 

Back in the day, the Conservatives pissed off Atlantic Canada so much; that the response was vote 'Anyone But Conservative' (ABC). It resulted in a total shut-out for the Conservatives across Atlantic Canada.

 

Just as there was incredible country-wide resentment with Trudeau, as per the ubiquitous F*** T****** sticker; there is a similar distrust of Poilievre, and a similar ABC response. While Trudeau was PM it wasn't visible (as Trudeau was disliked more than Poilievre), but with Trudeau now gone .... Poilievre is a lightning rod, and it's storming outside.

 

It isn't possible to win a majority in Canada without at least either Ontario or Quebec also voting in a majority of Conservative candidates. Hard to see that occurring while Poilievre remains as the Conservative leader.

 

Not that different to Harris having to take over from Biden during the recent US election. But unlike the US, this is much more likely to be decided upon based on leadership/experience/push-back, than populist rhetoric.

 

SD  

 

 

[cwericb]

16 minutes ago, SharperDingaan said:

 

My own view is that it's either a Conservative/NDP minority, with the Conservatives on top, and the Liberals/Bloc in opposition; or a NDP/Liberal minority with the NDP on top, and the Conservatives/Bloc in opposition. Of the two; the NDP/Liberal (Singh/Carney) being the preferred combination.

 

Back in the day, the Conservatives pissed off Atlantic Canada so much; that the response was vote 'Anyone But Conservative' (ABC). It resulted in a total shut-out for the Conservatives across Atlantic Canada.

 

Just as there was incredible country-wide resentment with Trudeau, as per the ubiquitous F*** T****** sticker; there is a similar distrust of Poilievre, and a similar ABC response. While Trudeau was PM it wasn't visible (as Trudeau was disliked more than Poilievre), but with Trudeau now gone .... Poilievre is a lightning rod, and it's storming outside.

 

It isn't possible to win a majority in Canada without at least either Ontario or Quebec also voting in a majority of Conservative candidates. Hard to see that occurring while Poilievre remains as the Conservative leader.

 

Not that different to Harris having to take over from Biden during the recent US election. But unlike the US, this is much more likely to be decided upon based on leadership/experience/push-back, than populist rhetoric.

 

SD  

 

 

 

As an Atlantic Canadian myself, it would seem that this area is basically Liberal and only after the Liberals have screwed up completely does the area switch to the Conservatives.

 

Personally, I have never followed that trend believing that the Conservatives are generally more fiscally responsible. But at this point I don't know if there is any amount of ass kissing any Liberal could do that would undo the raw hatred for Trudeau that runs across the whole country. It is not much wonder that so many well known Liberals have bailed. However elections can often produce unexpected results.

 

Anyone unfamiliar with Carney might like to watch this:

https://youtu.be/zs8St-fF0kE?si=FENzJ-qLmMkwiVCt

 

I must say though, that assuming Carney wins the Liberal nomination, I will have to give my vote some serious thought.

[RichardGibbons]

6 hours ago, cubsfan said:

 

Politics, both domestic and international is a tough game. The NATO countries absolutely hated Trump after he laid down the law on NATO funding. NATO is far stronger because of it. 

That's all that is happening here - protecting our national interest. You make a change from losers and try for the reset. Thank god for elections.

 

Yep, I think you're largely right. Canada has plenty of uranium, and it feels like it's about time for Canada to build a nuclear arsenal. Just to protect our national interest of course, since Trump's made it clear that he doesn't really see any other countries as allies or worth defending..

 

Even better, it would increase Canada's military budget, just as Trump wants, making NATO far stronger.

[ICUMD]

Carney

 

 

Vs 

 

Poilivere 

 

Much prefer Poilivere's delivery over Carney.

 

Carney is too soft.  Plus, I think he takes more credit than he deserves.  Banking in Canada has a long storied history over 200 yrs surviving great depressions and world wars.  It wasn't Carneys policies that saved them, but strict banking regulations.