US Exceptionalism

[cubsfan]

There is something to be said for being a good guest in the country you are immigrating to - 

we seem to have lost that.  Respect your host, don't break their laws, show some appreciation for the host that shows you magnanimity. You look at our Universities overrun by radical immigrants that riot becuase they are "oppressed" by their host. Easier to get sick of these people and just send them packing.

 

So much of this is just common sense.

[Xerxes]

8 minutes ago, Malmqky said:

Well, are Jews being brainwashed by fundamentalist, extremist ideology, and poverty on the scale Muslims are in countries like Iran?

I don’t think you know Iran at all …. Based on your paragraph. 
 

Even @Dinar wouldn’t write this … lol

[Malmqky]

3 minutes ago, Xerxes said:

I don’t think you know Iran at all …. Based on your paragraph. 
 

Even @Dinar wouldn’t write this … lol

 

Fair enough. I do know millions riot against their government and go back to 80s it was a different place. Palestine would have been a better example.

Thanks for pointing that out.

Edited Wednesday at 07:54 PM by Malmqky

[Dinar]

2 hours ago, Xerxes said:

The Jewish people have done a lot for the world. No doubt about it. I learn from them all the time …. (except their idea of co-existence with their very close neighbours) but that is different discussion and I don’t have an answer for it 
 

 

…. now rerun your math again when you properly classify Nazi and whatever else WHITE people have been up in terrorizing other populations as “terrorism” for the past hundreds of years.  

 

 

No, what Nazis & Mao & Stalin did was genocide.  On another note, to your point, Mongols were truly benevolent conquerors, provided you surrendered rather than fought.  

[Xerxes]

3 minutes ago, Malmqky said:

 

Fair enough. I do know millions riot against their government and go back to 80s it was a different place. Palestine would have been a better example.

Thanks for pointing that out.

The 1979 revolution was a revolution against the police state, by anti-monarchist, republican, Tudeh (communist), Muslims, clerics, the bazari (merchant class), teachers. 

 

in other words: everyone. Populism at its best. 

 

it became an “Islamic” revolution after the War started with Iraq, and the Islamist hijacked it on a pretext of national security. And then every of these factions were sidelined and silenced. 
 

 

 

 

[Xerxes]

30 minutes ago, Dinar said:

No, what Nazis & Mao & Stalin did was genocide.  On another note, to your point, Mongols were truly benevolent conquerors, provided you surrendered rather than fought.  

Nope. Doesn’t change the fact they were terrorizing those who they did not fall under the extermination program. 
 

 

[mcliu]

40 minutes ago, Xerxes said:

Nope. Doesn’t change the fact they were terrorizing those who they did not fall under the extermination program. 
 

 

Why argue over semantics? There's no specific agreed upon definition of terrorism..

You can make the argument that all homo sapiens are terrorists for exterminating neanderthals..

Clearly you and Dinar are talking about two different things here.

Maybe to be more specific the issue is religious extremism?

 

[Xerxes]

Certainly it all depends on definition. But there was a comment that 80% of terrorists are muslims. 
 

Now as an Iranian, I have no love for muslims and what they brought to my nation. That said there is a misrepresentation. 
 

So let’s re-run the math, and including the likes of Leopold II and Nazi and other misadventures of WHITE men and their terrorism. 
 

The colour of skin, race and faith shouldn’t matter. It is just people being people. And being shaped by their environment and circumstances. 
 

 

 

——//////——

More on King Leopold II from Gemini. 

it is one of the less known atrocities in the Western world. In case you cannot see it, in the picture below the person is looking at its now chopped off limbs. 

 

 

King Leopold II of Belgium's rule over the Congo Free State (1885-1908) resulted in the deaths of millions of Congolese people.
 * Estimates: Scholarly estimates of the death toll vary widely, ranging from 5 to 10 million.
 * Causes: This immense loss of life was primarily due to:
   * Forced labor: The Congolese were subjected to brutal forced labor in the collection of rubber and ivory, leading to widespread starvation, exhaustion, and death.
   * Violence and mutilation: Brutal punishments, including mutilation (hands being cut off) and killings, were common to enforce labor quotas.
   * Disease: The introduction of European diseases like smallpox and sleeping sickness decimated the population.
It's important to note: These figures are difficult to pinpoint with absolute certainty due to the lack of accurate records kept during that period.
The atrocities committed in the Congo Free State under Leopold II's rule are considered one of the most horrific examples of colonial exploitation and violence in history.

 

Edited Wednesday at 09:42 PM by Xerxes

[Blake Hampton]

One of the best books I've ever read, if not the best, was Man's Search for Meaning by Viktor Frankl. It's truly an incredible book and I read it three times back-to-back when I was going through a tough period, it completely changed my life. One of the things that stuck with me was how Frankl described the cruelty that he would see committed by other Jewish prisoners in Auschwitz, they were called Capos.

"As Frankl describes, the worst and most brutal individuals, sometimes former criminals, were assigned to be capos. They could be more cruel and vicious to the prisoners than the SS guards. Any capo who was not sufficiently sadistic and violent would quickly be replaced."

The lesson I learned from this, that I will hopefully remember for the rest of my life, is that the morality within specific groups of humans isn't simply black and white. There's always good and evil everywhere.

Edited Wednesday at 10:12 PM by Blake Hampton

[Spooky]

27 minutes ago, Blake Hampton said:

One of the best books I've ever read, if not the best, was Man's Search for Meaning by Viktor Frankl. It's truly an incredible book and I read it three times back-to-back when I was going through a tough period, it completely changed my life. One of the things that stuck with me was how Frankl described the cruelty that he would see committed by other Jewish prisoners in Auschwitz, they were called Capos.

"As Frankl describes, the worst and most brutal individuals, sometimes former criminals, were assigned to be capos. They could be more cruel and vicious to the prisoners than the SS guards. Any capo who was not sufficiently sadistic and violent would quickly be replaced."

The lesson I learned from this, that I will hopefully remember for the rest of my life, is that the morality within specific groups of humans isn't simply black and white. There's always good and evil everywhere.

 

Great book and post. Very wise.

[cubsfan]

3 hours ago, rkbabang said:

 

It's just their long march through the institutions. I think history has proven beyond a reasonable doubt that McCarthy was correct and wasn't extreme enough. Collectivists and leftists are always and everywhere a threat to civilization.  And that is exactly what every child should be taught.

 

The following kind of action will go a long way to restoring sanity in America's institutions.

Understandably, few trust our universities anymore due to the extremists.

 

https://amgreatness.com/2024/12/18/in-schools-jews-lose/

 

President-Elect Trump this week:

 

"My first week back in the Oval Office, my administration will inform every college president that if you do not end antisemitic propaganda, they will lose their accreditation and federal taxpayer support. I will inform every educational institution in our land that if they permit violence, harassment, or threats against Jewish students, the schools will be held accountable for violations of the civil rights laws.”

[Dinar]

3 minutes ago, cubsfan said:

 

The following kind of action will go a long way to restoring sanity in America's institutions.

Understandably, few trust our universities anymore due to the extremists.

 

https://amgreatness.com/2024/12/18/in-schools-jews-lose/

 

President-Elect Trump this week:

 

"My first week back in the Oval Office, my administration will inform every college president that if you do not end antisemitic propaganda, they will lose their accreditation and federal taxpayer support. I will inform every educational institution in our land that if they permit violence, harassment, or threats against Jewish students, the schools will be held accountable for violations of the civil rights laws.”

A better action would be the following:

a) End federal student loan guarantees that cost taxpayers tens to hundreds of billions per annum

b) Tax endowment earnings

c) End tax free status of bonds issued by universities and municipalities in general

d) End all federal support for universities, including for research - let them apply to a myriad of foundations such as Gates, Musk, et all

e) Tax benefits given to university employees such as subsidized housing (3 bedroom in Greenwich Village for $3K per month vs $15K monthly rent) and free tuition for their kids.

[cubsfan]

44 minutes ago, Dinar said:

A better action would be the following:

a) End federal student loan guarantees that cost taxpayers tens to hundreds of billions per annum

b) Tax endowment earnings

c) End tax free status of bonds issued by universities and municipalities in general

d) End all federal support for universities, including for research - let them apply to a myriad of foundations such as Gates, Musk, et all

e) Tax benefits given to university employees such as subsidized housing (3 bedroom in Greenwich Village for $3K per month vs $15K monthly rent) and free tuition for their kids.

 

Totally agree - the good universities will flourish and the great scholars will be in big demand.

Tenure, like term-limits for Congress, needs to be rethought.

 

https://amgreatness.com/2023/11/09/schools-for-hamas-cide/

[Castanza]

3 hours ago, Blake Hampton said:

One of the best books I've ever read, if not the best, was Man's Search for Meaning by Viktor Frankl. It's truly an incredible book and I read it three times back-to-back when I was going through a tough period, it completely changed my life. One of the things that stuck with me was how Frankl described the cruelty that he would see committed by other Jewish prisoners in Auschwitz, they were called Capos.

"As Frankl describes, the worst and most brutal individuals, sometimes former criminals, were assigned to be capos. They could be more cruel and vicious to the prisoners than the SS guards. Any capo who was not sufficiently sadistic and violent would quickly be replaced."

The lesson I learned from this, that I will hopefully remember for the rest of my life, is that the morality within specific groups of humans isn't simply black and white. There's always good and evil everywhere.

Great book for sure. You’d probably like “Ordinary Men” as well. 
 

Can’t remember if it was from Helmet For My Pillow or With The Old Breed. But there was a quote something like “The most brutal animal on the plant is your average 18 year old boy.”

 

We are all the same, but have different circumstances. 

[Castanza]

3 hours ago, Dinar said:

A better action would be the following:

a) End federal student loan guarantees that cost taxpayers tens to hundreds of billions per annum

b) Tax endowment earnings

c) End tax free status of bonds issued by universities and municipalities in general

d) End all federal support for universities, including for research - let them apply to a myriad of foundations such as Gates, Musk, et all

e) Tax benefits given to university employees such as subsidized housing (3 bedroom in Greenwich Village for $3K per month vs $15K monthly rent) and free tuition for their kids.

Don’t forget pensions. Nothing breaks more small and midsized towns than teacher, police, and firefighter pensions. 

[John Hjorth]

4 hours ago, Blake Hampton said:

One of the best books I've ever read, if not the best, was Man's Search for Meaning by Viktor Frankl. It's truly an incredible book and I read it three times back-to-back when I was going through a tough period, it completely changed my life. One of the things that stuck with me was how Frankl described the cruelty that he would see committed by other Jewish prisoners in Auschwitz, they were called Capos.

"As Frankl describes, the worst and most brutal individuals, sometimes former criminals, were assigned to be capos. They could be more cruel and vicious to the prisoners than the SS guards. Any capo who was not sufficiently sadistic and violent would quickly be replaced."

The lesson I learned from this, that I will hopefully remember for the rest of my life, is that the morality within specific groups of humans isn't simply black and white. There's always good and evil everywhere.

 

 

Thank you for sharing, Blake [ @Blake Hampton ],

 

Reluctantly, and hesitating, I added the book to my wish-list. I may buy it later. By now, I'm already filled up to the eyeballs by trying on daily basis to relate to what absolutely meaningless madness is going on in Europe a bit further down [south] relative to my personal location.

[73 Reds]

11 hours ago, Castanza said:

Don’t forget pensions. Nothing breaks more small and midsized towns than teacher, police, and firefighter pensions. 

Tenure is like welfare for college professors.  Pensions are another issue; for jobs in law enforcement and firefighters who assume a lot of personal risk for not a lot of pay, pensions do have a place.  

[Castanza]

17 minutes ago, 73 Reds said:

Tenure is like welfare for college professors.  Pensions are another issue; for jobs in law enforcement and firefighters who assume a lot of personal risk for not a lot of pay, pensions do have a place.  

 

I would rather see much higher pay. Low pay in the short-term and nothing but a pension to look forward to creates poor incentives for employment imo. 

 

At one point, here in PA a State Liquor store worker was making $38/hr, receiving a pension after 20 years calculated from their top 3 earnings years and great benefits. Idk about you, but for a job that a HS students could do (stocking shelves and running a cash register) that doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. 

 

[73 Reds]

22 minutes ago, Castanza said:

 

I would rather see much higher pay. Low pay in the short-term and nothing but a pension to look forward to creates poor incentives for employment imo. 

 

At one point, here in PA a State Liquor store worker was making $38/hr, receiving a pension after 20 years calculated from their top 3 earnings years and great benefits. Idk about you, but for a job that a HS students could do (stocking shelves and running a cash register) that doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. 

 

Agreed.  Compensation should be commensurate with skills, safety and value to society.

[changegonnacome]

20 hours ago, 73 Reds said:

Muslims are not worse than Jews.  If you believe that then you, yourself are stereotyping the group.

 

I disagree here - Islam, maybe because of its age, maybe because of its books and ideology or maybe because of the direction it has taken in recent times......has a militant violent streak (read dangerous) which dwarfs any of the other faiths.

 

The classic Sam Harris analogy is instructive.....which is.....one could produce and put on a Broadway comedy play/musical lampooning Jesus, the Mormons (already have), the Jews........and it would go off with some fanfare but no violence/deaths........the same could not be said for a comedy musical lampooning Muhammed/Islam......it would require the national guard to provide round the clock protection to the producers, actors and show attendees....yet the Book of Mormon can run for a decade with zero violence. Why?

 

Because as it pertains to 'defending' the faith in a world of free speech......contemporary Muslim's (all things being equal) are worse than Jews, Christians etc......because contemporary Muslims, the evidence shows, have a much higher propensity to turn their ephemeral faith into real acts of violence/terrorism that are antithetical to Western values of individual freedom than any other contemporary religion......if the period was ~1095 - 1291 (the crusades) I would say the same thing about Christians. However we dont live in the 1100's, we live in the 2020's......and in the 2020's Islam has a crusader streak which means that a mind virus is loose in a minority (but substantial) number of its faithful which justifies absolutely heinous acts of violence like Oct 7th......or the various atrocities too many to list. 

[73 Reds]

6 minutes ago, changegonnacome said:

 

I disagree here - Islam, maybe because of its age, maybe because of its books and ideology or maybe because of the direction it has taken in recent times......has a militant violent streak (read dangerous) which dwarfs any of the other faiths.

 

The classic Sam Harris analogy is instructive.....which is.....one could produce and put on a Broadway comedy play/musical lampooning Jesus, the Mormons (already have), the Jews........and it would go off with some fanfare but no violence/deaths........the same could not be said for a comedy musical lampooning Muhammed/Islam......it would require the national guard to provide round the clock protection to the producers, actors and show attendees....yet the Book of Mormon can run for a decade with zero violence. Why?

 

Because as it pertains to 'defending' the faith in a world of free speech......contemporary Muslim's (all things being equal) are worse than Jews, Christians etc......because contemporary Muslims, the evidence shows, have a much higher propensity to turn their ephemeral faith into real acts of violence/terrorism that are antithetical to Western values of individual freedom than any other contemporary religion......if the period was ~1095 - 1291 (the crusades) I would say the same thing about Christians. However we dont live in the 1100's, we live in the 2020's......and in the 2020's Islam has a crusader streak which means that a mind virus is loose in a minority (but substantial) number of its faithful which justifies absolutely heinous acts of violence like Oct 7th......or the various atrocities too many to list. 

Well, one quarter of the World's population, and growing are Muslims and I'd hate to think that most have a violent streak.  Otherwise, that doesn't bode well for the future.

[Spekulatius]

11 hours ago, 73 Reds said:

Tenure is like welfare for college professors.  Pensions are another issue; for jobs in law enforcement and firefighters who assume a lot of personal risk for not a lot of pay, pensions do have a place.  

Law enforcement jobs and firefighter jobs are much less risky than being a logging worker, roofer etc, which get no pension at all.

 

When you look at the mortality tables for policemen, they show increased risk of arteriosclerosis, cancer, high blood pressure etc, probably due to unhealthy lifestyle, shift work, stress.

https://stacks.cdc.gov/view/cdc/37845

https://www.ishn.com/articles/112748-top-25-most-dangerous-jobs-in-the-united-states

[Spekulatius]

On 12/19/2024 at 10:32 AM, changegonnacome said:

 

I disagree here - Islam, maybe because of its age, maybe because of its books and ideology or maybe because of the direction it has taken in recent times......has a militant violent streak (read dangerous) which dwarfs any of the other faiths.

 

The classic Sam Harris analogy is instructive.....which is.....one could produce and put on a Broadway comedy play/musical lampooning Jesus, the Mormons (already have), the Jews........and it would go off with some fanfare but no violence/deaths........the same could not be said for a comedy musical lampooning Muhammed/Islam......it would require the national guard to provide round the clock protection to the producers, actors and show attendees....yet the Book of Mormon can run for a decade with zero violence. Why?

 

Because as it pertains to 'defending' the faith in a world of free speech......contemporary Muslim's (all things being equal) are worse than Jews, Christians etc......because contemporary Muslims, the evidence shows, have a much higher propensity to turn their ephemeral faith into real acts of violence/terrorism that are antithetical to Western values of individual freedom than any other contemporary religion......if the period was ~1095 - 1291 (the crusades) I would say the same thing about Christians. However we dont live in the 1100's, we live in the 2020's......and in the 2020's Islam has a crusader streak which means that a mind virus is loose in a minority (but substantial) number of its faithful which justifies absolutely heinous acts of violence like Oct 7th......or the various atrocities too many to list. 

Islam is the youngest of the great religions.

 

I think as religion it is inherently flawed much more so than other religions. For once, the expansion is build it- a Muslim is encouraged to spread Islam with the word and the sword.

 

If you read the Quran, you quickly find out that it’s basically a very detailed instruction on how your live your live. It tells you when to pray, when and what to eat, when as when not to have sex with your wife, how to punish crime or transgression with little room for interpretations. All those rules may have made sense 1500 year ago, but they are now hopelessly outdated.

 

It’s very different from the new Testament, which has very basic rules with lots of flexibility on how to interpret them in specific situations. Also, the basic Christian emphasis is compassion, white the focus in the Quaran is about being just.

 

Since all religion are based on dogmas but are also philosophical framework , I think the Muslim is the most flawed of the great worlds religions by far.

There are many modern scholar who try to interpret the Quran in newer up to date ways but the problem is they the Quran is very clearly written with the intend to have clear rules and the fundamentalist correctly point out that they are just applying the Quaran as intended.

 

There clearly are many Muslim who don’t follow the Quran strictly and more or less live secular life’s but strictly  speaking they don’t follow the intend of their religion and my guess is that’s why there are so many Muslim fundamentalist that’s just follow the book . I think the societies that do this are screed because they badcolly follow a 1500 year old rule book that was not designed to be updated.

 

Its like running a bunch of COBOL code because you believe it’s the best programming language ever created and all other programming languages after that are just transgressions.

 

 

Edited Friday at 06:32 PM by Spekulatius

[changegonnacome]

8 hours ago, Spekulatius said:

Its like running a bunch of COBOL code

 

Indeed agree with all that you said above....and computer code isn't a terrible analogy for any religion.....and Islam as you point out, in particular, attempts to replace more of an individual's 'core code' than any other scaled religion...and unlike say Catholicism where the Pope/Rome provides kind of patch updates to the OS such that it can flexibly move with the times....Islam doesn't have this patch update feature....the Quran is such an expansive and static rulebook that contains so many 'teachings' that are antithetical to modern liberal democratic life that the calculus for how countries think of immigration from fundamentalist source countries should be very different. The left would say that is discrimination but the reality is inviting people into your country who despise your values and culture is just not a good idea ever.

[DooDiligence]

5 minutes ago, changegonnacome said:

 

Indeed agree with all that you said above....and computer code isn't a terrible analogy for any religion.....and Islam as you point out, in particular, attempts to replace more of an individual's 'core code' than any other scaled religion...and unlike say Catholicism where the Pope/Rome provides kind of patch updates to the OS such that it can flexibly move with the times....Islam doesn't have this patch update feature....the Quran is such an expansive and static rulebook that contains so many 'teachings' that are antithetical to modern liberal democratic life that the calculus for how countries think of immigration from fundamentalist source countries should be very different. The left would say that is discrimination but the reality is inviting people into your country who despise your values and culture is just not a good idea ever.

 

Snow Crash by Neal Stephenson

 

Hiro lives in a Los Angeles where franchises line the freeway as far as the eye can see. The only relief from the sea of logos is within the autonomous city-states, where law-abiding citizens don’t dare leave their mansions.

Hiro delivers pizza to the mansions for a living, defending his pies from marauders when necessary with a matched set of samurai swords. His home is a shared 20 X 30 U-Stor-It. He spends most of his time goggled in to the Metaverse, where his avatar is legendary.

But in the club known as The Black Sun, his fellow hackers are being felled by a weird new drug called Snow Crash that reduces them to nothing more than a jittering cloud of bad digital karma (and IRL, a vegetative state).

Investigating the Infocalypse leads Hiro all the way back to the beginning of language itself, with roots in an ancient Sumerian priesthood. He’ll be joined by Y.T., a fearless teenaged skateboard courier. Together, they must race to stop a shadowy virtual villain hell-bent on world domination.