Iran - Israel - Gaza Conflict

[Xerxes]

15 minutes ago, ValueArb said:

 

If Bibi is a war criminal, then so were Bomber Harris, Curtis Lemay, Churchill, FDR and Truman.

So that we are clearly baselining ourselves:  

 

if the war between Russian and Ukraine started with an Ukrainian terrorist attack on proper Russian soil by Zelensky in 2022, and that Putin finally got an excuses for his imperial aspirations and went in like hell and did the exact same nasty thing that he is doing now, 

 

would Putin be war criminal or not ?

[SharperDingaan]

Have to think the helicopter crash wasn't an accident; it's 2024, this level of dignitary fly only with the best pilots, in suitably modified craft, and with all kinds of 'other' support. May-18, Gantz demands a plan for post Gaza by Jun-08 or he quits (bringing down the government); about the same time, Netanyahu is issued an international arrest warrant; executable as soon as he is no longer in government. And two days later a helicopter auspiciously flies into a mountain, killing all on board? perhaps with a little help from some friends?

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/5/18/israels-gantz-demands-gaza-post-war-plan-threathens-to-quit-govt

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/world/article-icc-prosecutor-seeks-arrest-warrants-for-israeli-pm-netanyahu-defence/

 

The US built Gaza floating pier is now complete, and the aid trucks have begun rolling. Driving the population out of Gaza has failed; and it is a simple matter to replace the drivers and distribution with blue-helmets. It would appear that Gaza is pretty much done; and that even Gantz can see that. https://ca.news.yahoo.com/aid-flows-gaza-u-military-155901057.html

 

It would also seem that Netanyahu himself is perhaps the only person in the world gifted enough to make MBS look good. https://www.ibtimes.com.au/us-envoy-touts-potential-israel-saudi-deal-netanyahu-talks-1848158

 

Of course oil prices will rise on this, but one has to hope that the saner heads will prevail. Also have to think that a US 'protection from prosecution' in return for 'exile' will be on the table; and that the precedent will be extended to MBS when it becomes his time. 

 

SD 

Edited May 20 by SharperDingaan

[ValueArb]

58 minutes ago, Xerxes said:

So that we are clearly baselining ourselves:  

 

if the war between Russian and Ukraine started with an Ukrainian terrorist attack on proper Russian soil by Zelensky in 2022, and that Putin finally got an excuses for his imperial aspirations and went in like hell and did the exact same nasty thing that he is doing now, 

 

would Putin be war criminal or not ?

 

Depends upon if he wins the war and stays in power or not. Lemay himself said if the Allies had lost he'd have been executed for war crimes. The allies deliberately targeted civilian areas to reduce the Axis economic production capacity and morale. Dresden and Tokyo are the most obvious examples. 

 

In the case of Israel I see them attempting to be very selective in the targets they attack, even though Hamas puts its military assets directly in civilian areas including hospitals to try to shield them. Any military position should be fair game, regardless of how many civilians are nearby, and that would still be vastly superior morally to the carpet bombing the Allies inflicted in WW2. 

 

At the beginning of the conflict IDF intelligence was making phone calls to Palestinian civilians to warn them that an attack was inbound for military positions in their apartment buildings, and giving them time to warn neighbors and evacuate. Not sure if they are still doing that, as it had to have lost them targets and cost Israeli lives, but it is just one in a long list of examples that shows the IDF is attempting to reduce civilian casualties as much as possible. 

 

While they should always try to reduce civilian casualties they should never attempt to "minimize" them. That just keeps Hamas operating longer and the war going longer. The only one would can end the civilian deaths is Hamas, by surrendering and signing a peace agreement that recognizes Israels right to exist. Any peace short of that just restarts the rocket attacks within a few months turning Palestinians into human shields again. 

[whatstheofficerproblem]

I just hope the India-Iran Chabahar Port deal still stands, if agreements are to be honored, we are safe for another 10 years. Either way, Raisi wasn't worth the effort, Khamenei is the real ring leader and to see any sort of change in Iran, that guy must go.

Edited May 20 by whatstheofficerproblem

[cubsfan]

57 minutes ago, SharperDingaan said:

Have to think the helicopter crash wasn't an accident; it's 2024, this level of dignitary fly only with the best pilots, in suitably modified craft, and with all kinds of 'other' support. May-18, Gantz demands a plan for post Gaza by Jun-08 or he quits (bringing down the government); about the same time, Netanyahu is issued an international arrest warrant; executable as soon as he is no longer in government. And two days later a helicopter auspiciously flies into a mountain, killing all on board? perhaps with a little help from some friends?

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/5/18/israels-gantz-demands-gaza-post-war-plan-threathens-to-quit-govt

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/world/article-icc-prosecutor-seeks-arrest-warrants-for-israeli-pm-netanyahu-defence/

 

The US built Gaza floating pier is now complete, and the aid trucks have begun rolling. Driving the population out of Gaza has failed; and it is a simple matter to replace the drivers and distribution with blue-helmets. It would appear that Gaza is pretty much done; and that even Gantz can see that. https://ca.news.yahoo.com/aid-flows-gaza-u-military-155901057.html

 

It would seem that Netanyahu himself is perhaps the only person in the world gifted enough to make MBS look good. https://www.ibtimes.com.au/us-envoy-touts-potential-israel-saudi-deal-netanyahu-talks-1848158

 

Of course oil prices will rise on this, but one has to hope that the saner heads will prevail. Have to think that US 'protection from prosecution' in return for an 'exile' will on the table; and that the precedent will be extended to MBS when it becomes his time. 

 

SD 

 

Yeah, lots of conspiracy theories going around. We all know what Mossad is capable of...or the USA for that matter. 

 

The best I've seen is the pilot was a Mossad agent named Eli Copter. Certainly to be expected from Israel haters. Sure to stir up the Arab world against Israel.

 

But, the world is rid of one more rat - President Raisi was responsible for the executions of thousands of political prisoners - estimates range from 3000 to 30000 - and they went on for months. Who can forget the sights of hundreds of bodies hanging from cranes all over Iran in the 1980's.

 

So whether it was Mossad or the incompetence of Iranian pilots/mechanics - who cares.

[Xerxes]

34 minutes ago, ValueArb said:

 

Depends upon if he wins the war and stays in power or not. Lemay himself said if the Allies had lost he'd have been executed for war crimes. The allies deliberately targeted civilian areas to reduce the Axis economic production capacity and morale. Dresden and Tokyo are the most obvious examples. 

 

In the case of Israel I see them attempting to be very selective in the targets they attack, even though Hamas puts its military assets directly in civilian areas including hospitals to try to shield them. Any military position should be fair game, regardless of how many civilians are nearby, and that would still be vastly superior morally to the carpet bombing the Allies inflicted in WW2. 

 

At the beginning of the conflict IDF intelligence was making phone calls to Palestinian civilians to warn them that an attack was inbound for military positions in their apartment buildings, and giving them time to warn neighbors and evacuate. Not sure if they are still doing that, as it had to have lost them targets and cost Israeli lives, but it is just one in a long list of examples that shows the IDF is attempting to reduce civilian casualties as much as possible. 

 

While they should always try to reduce civilian casualties they should never attempt to "minimize" them. That just keeps Hamas operating longer and the war going longer. The only one would can end the civilian deaths is Hamas, by surrendering and signing a peace agreement that recognizes Israels right to exist. Any peace short of that just restarts the rocket attacks within a few months turning Palestinians into human shields again. 

I get that the outcome of the war, will allow the winning side to write whatever it wants. The more total is the victory, the more total will be the essay. Your WW2 example is case in point. 
 

———
 

But that was not the question. I am looking directly at another conflict happening in parallel to the Gaza War, and asking your opinion and not so much what will be in the history books. 

What do YOU think ? Is changing what was triggering factor of the war in case of Ukraine, changes what you feel about Bakhmut, And all the devastation in the Donbas etc. 

 

————

if you had to guess what proportion of IDF constituted the bad apples. (See video)  
 

1% , 2% etc or more 

 

 

[Xerxes]

7 minutes ago, cubsfan said:

 

Yeah, lots of conspiracy theories going around. We all know what Mossad is capable of...or the USA for that matter. 

 

The best I've seen is the pilot was a Mossad agent named Eli Copter. Certainly to be expected from Israel haters. Sure to stir up the Arab world against Israel.

 

But, the world is rid of one more rat - President Raisi was responsible for the executions of thousands of political prisoners - estimates range from 3000 to 30000 - and they went on for months. Who can forget the sights of hundreds of bodies hanging from cranes all over Iran in the 1980's.

 

So whether it was Mossad or the incompetence of Iranian pilots/mechanics - who cares.

very well said 

[Xerxes]

1 hour ago, SharperDingaan said:

Have to think the helicopter crash wasn't an accident; it's 2024, this level of dignitary fly only with the best pilots, in suitably modified craft, and with all kinds of 'other' support. May-18, Gantz demands a plan for post Gaza by Jun-08 or he quits (bringing down the government); about the same time, Netanyahu is issued an international arrest warrant; executable as soon as he is no longer in government. And two days later a helicopter auspiciously flies into a mountain, killing all on board? perhaps with a little help from some friends?

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/5/18/israels-gantz-demands-gaza-post-war-plan-threathens-to-quit-govt

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/world/article-icc-prosecutor-seeks-arrest-warrants-for-israeli-pm-netanyahu-defence/

 

The US built Gaza floating pier is now complete, and the aid trucks have begun rolling. Driving the population out of Gaza has failed; and it is a simple matter to replace the drivers and distribution with blue-helmets. It would appear that Gaza is pretty much done; and that even Gantz can see that. https://ca.news.yahoo.com/aid-flows-gaza-u-military-155901057.html

 

It would seem that Netanyahu himself is perhaps the only person in the world gifted enough to make MBS look good.

https://www.ibtimes.com.au/us-envoy-touts-potential-israel-saudi-deal-netanyahu-talks-1848158

 

Of course oil prices will rise on this, but one has to hope that the saner heads will prevail. Have to think that US 'protection from prosecution' in return for an 'exile' will on the table; and that the precedent will be extended to MBS when it becomes his time. 

 

SD 

Iran and Israel are not in the best terms. Surely, an enemy of Iran will not help its people by removing an highly incompetent manager of economy. 
 

If there was foul play involved, it would be from factions of IRGC and other interest group within the country, gearing up for the power play that will come soon at the supreme leader level.  
 

——-

As an example, Qasem Suleimni was incredibly capable manager, proconsul, military leader all rolled into one. He had to go. You live by the sword, you die by the sword. 
 

Incompetent fools like Raisi, enemies of Iran wouldn’t mind at all.

 

 

 

Edited May 20 by Xerxes

[SharperDingaan]

The reality is that the western public will never know what really happened; it may simply have been a settling of scores, while it still can be done. At best, we see a few 'examples' made around the world, as a message to others.

 

Warlords, and those facing war crimes are out of business, should peace break out. If this triggers another round of state-on-state strikes that prolongs the war, in their eyes - it's all good. Especially if you're an extremist (on either/some other side) with a fuse burning on your remaining time in office.

 

Keep in mind that 'some other side' could also be a Saudi/US gentleman's agreement. The more that Israel f**** *p, the more that MBS is our 'friend'; there is not much difference between Netanyahu war crimes, and the state assassination of Khashoggi. 

 

Simply a different POV.

 

SD

 

 

 

 

    

[ValueArb]

3 hours ago, Xerxes said:

But that was not the question. I am looking directly at another conflict happening in parallel to the Gaza War, and asking your opinion and not so much what will be in the history books. 

What do YOU think ? Is changing what was triggering factor of the war in case of Ukraine, changes what you feel about Bakhmut, And all the devastation in the Donbas etc. 

 

The main war crime that Putin committed was the invasion of Ukraine, so in an imaginary world where Ukraine started the war that wouldn't have been a crime. How much of the other Russian war crimes we can show that Putin directly ordered or is responsible for I have no idea. Every military force commits crimes at some level. 

 

3 hours ago, Xerxes said:

 

————

if you had to guess what proportion of IDF constituted the bad apples. (See video)  
 

1% , 2% etc or more 

 

 

 

No idea. Not sure why blowing up a Mosque that was being used as a base for military operations against the IDF would be a crime, or wrong in any way. 

[Xerxes]

12 minutes ago, ValueArb said:

 

The main war crime that Putin committed was the invasion of Ukraine, so in an imaginary world where Ukraine started the war that wouldn't have been a crime. How much of the other Russian war crimes we can show that Putin directly ordered or is responsible for I have no idea. Every military force commits crimes at some level. 

 

 

No idea. Not sure why blowing up a Mosque that was being used as a base for military operations against the IDF would be a crime, or wrong in any way. 

Dude

I couldn’t care less what he blew up (it is war, things blow up)

 

I couldn’t get the context from this short video, not sure how you got that full context, in any case that was not the point of the comment. 
 

Is that type of behaviour by soldiers (filming themselves destroying things) acceptable?
 

Given your answer just above, it seems to be ok with you.

 

Either that or you just happen to be in the “Israel can do no wrong” and “I will not offend them openly” camp. 

Anyways. Not going to waste your time any further. Thanks for the chat. 

 

[ValueArb]

19 hours ago, Xerxes said:

Dude

I couldn’t care less what he blew up (it is war, things blow up)

 

I couldn’t get the context from this short video, not sure how you got that full context, in any case that was not the point of the comment. 
 

Is that type of behaviour by soldiers (filming themselves destroying things) acceptable?
 

Given your answer just above, it seems to be ok with you.

 

Either that or you just happen to be in the “Israel can do no wrong” and “I will not offend them openly” camp. 

Anyways. Not going to waste your time any further. Thanks for the chat. 

 

 

I didn't watch the whole video, so I jumped to the wrong conclusion that you thought it was outrageous because he was blowing up a Mosque.

 

No, filming operations isn't acceptable from several perspectives. First, it damages operational security and can be used by the enemy to plan counter-tactics and strategies. I would hope that the IDF at least approved release of the video, that soldiers aren't randomly posting videos.

 

That said, while releasing video of a demolition might serve some purpose, like the IDF wants to send a message? But its not a positive message, and especially not blowing up a mosque. The core reasons for the conflict is religious, no reason to intentionally stir up emotions more. 

 

I'm not in the "Israel can do no wrong" camp, I'm in the "Israel is better than their enemies" and fully expect them to live up to it. I think Israel itself is a borderline Theocracy, and thats part of the problem. I look forward to the end of the war hoping that Israel can come to grips with the religious fundamentalists and settlers in their own country that helped fuel the conflicts with Palestinians. And I look forward to Bibi's arrest and imprisonment, not for war crimes, but for corruption.

[Xerxes]

2 hours ago, ValueArb said:

 

I didn't watch the whole video, so I jumped to the wrong conclusion that you thought it was outrageous because he was blowing up a Mosque.

 

No, filming operations isn't acceptable from several perspectives. First, it damages operational security and can be used by the enemy to plan counter-tactics and strategies. I would hope that the IDF at least approved release of the video, that soldiers aren't randomly posting videos.

 

That said, while releasing video of a demolition might serve some purpose, like the IDF wants to send a message? But its not a positive message, and especially not blowing up a mosque. The core reasons for the conflict is religious, no reason to intentionally stir up emotions more. 

 

I'm not in the "Israel can do no wrong" camp, I'm in the "Israel is better than their enemies" and fully expect them to live up to it. I think Israel itself is a borderline Theocracy, and thats part of the problem. I look forward to the end of the war hoping that Israel can come to grips with the religious fundamentalists and settlers in their own country that helped fuel the conflicts with Palestinians. And I look forward to Bibi's arrest and imprisonment, not for war crimes, but for corruption.

 

Thanks ValueArb

 

I know it is tough, but IDF is under the microscope with international community. Fairness has nothing to do with it. It is what it is. Nothing is fair in life. 
 

At the best, they can take a page from Petraeus’ book, but at the minimum they should get the optics right. 
 

And as soldiers, they can do better. To me anyways serving one’ country means something and that’ the image that I have in my mind when I think of soldiers.

 

Not to forget that the founders of ISIS came out of Al-Gharib prison camp, for them Al-Qaeda was too soft. We don’t want a cesspool in Gaza. 

[Gamecock-YT]

On 4/30/2024 at 11:22 PM, Eldad said:

Now they have taken over the Deans office. Must be another slow news day. Hahaha 

 

How are your student protests going?

 

Btw, here's the latest from Myanmar: 

 

 

Edited May 23 by Gamecock-YT

[Eldad]

12 hours ago, Gamecock-YT said:

 

How are your student protests going?

 

Btw, here's the latest from Myanmar: 

 

 

Ha, I have not kept up. I think it is still an S Show. I’m still shorting Ivys. Going to try to pretty much ignore domestic news for next 6 months. Thanks for the Myanmar story. 

[lnofeisone]

On 5/20/2024 at 12:55 PM, cubsfan said:

The best I've seen is the pilot was a Mossad agent named Eli Copter. Certainly to be expected from Israel haters. Sure to stir up the Arab world against Israel.

 

I generally don't want to opine in this thread because my position is very biased towards Israel, but I did want to point out one thing that probably belongs in our jokes thread.

 

Eli Copter is a joke name. Israelis generally don't pronounce letter H (though it is written when needed) so when you hear them say helicopter, it sound sounds like elicopter. Someone took that as a joke and made it Eli Copter (named after the famous Mossad operative Eli Cohen(which Israelis would pronounce as Elee Cohen)).

[lnofeisone]

On 5/21/2024 at 12:15 PM, ValueArb said:

No, filming operations isn't acceptable from several perspectives. First, it damages operational security and can be used by the enemy to plan counter-tactics and strategies. I would hope that the IDF at least approved release of the video, that soldiers aren't randomly posting videos.

This is spot on. I wish IDF would forbid posts by the soldiers. In the last 3 months, the flow slowed to a trickle, which is a positive, but occasional photos/videos do leak. Israel did punish a few soldiers in these videos (for example, the one in this video where they are ransacking a candy shop). The mosque, the schools, and hospitals are filled with tunnels. I saw a few videos on Telegram where mosques (plural) have tunnels that were packed with RPGs, AK47s, etc. Basically, an ordinance that IDF doesn't use (I've seen (some dumb) people on X say that IDF put that there but IDF surely didn't dig that tunnel).  One mosque had a tunnel that extended ways out, and when it blew up, an entire block was basically destroyed. 

 

Either way, bad look for Israel. It is extra hard that there is a high degree of International bias in this particular war. But Israelis are a tough bunch and I'm hopeful days of Hamas are ticking down. 

[Xerxes]

10 hours ago, lnofeisone said:

I generally don't want to opine in this thread because my position is very biased towards Israel,

My uber anti-Netanyahu has bias is not stoping me from commenting here all the time.
 

So don’t worry about that stuff. Feel free to comment at any time. 
 

I think at the end most of us want the samething, even if it seems long way out. 

[whatstheofficerproblem]

Wow, Israel really has dogshit PR. I mean tbh even if they did have good PR the western audience seems more likely to believe Hamas than Israeli govt. Isn't it against Geneva convention to fire from civilian places, who really is committing a war crime here? People tend to forget this is a literal war lmao, the new 'All Eyes on Rafah' trend is hilarious, it's almost like saying 'I saw the Dresden Bombings, I stand with the N*zis' or 'I saw Hiroshima, I stand with Imperial Army'.

 

This is proof that people only validate one side bombing the other regardless of consequences if they are also at risk of being harmed by the other side. The avg western audience which doesn't have any consequences from whoever wins or loses this ordeal have no love lost for Israelis.

Edited May 29 by whatstheofficerproblem

[cubsfan]

^^^ Well , you have the fake news and the whole Muslim world against the Israelis.

 

The anti-semitism being demonstrated by the left is no different than being members of the KKK.

Pure racial hatred.

[Jaygo]

4 hours ago, cubsfan said:

^^^ Well , you have the fake news and the whole Muslim world against the Israelis.

 

The anti-semitism being demonstrated by the left is no different than being members of the KKK.

Pure racial hatred.

Likely my only post in this thread but it may be an eye opener for you cubs. 
I am not really paying attention to this war. I don’t read the news or watch it. I get dribs and drabs of info and that’s about it. 
 

my opinion is simple. Bad guys did very bad things that need to be dealt with. Isreal likely doesn’t have a right to be there but lines were drawn and it is what it is. My feeling on the history is that we are responsible for our actions today and not of our fathers. If the native Canadians started asking for their land back they would have zero right to it in my opinion. And if they tried to occupy the land they would be the oppressor.  
 

Gaza seems like the underdog here that is stuck between a rock and a hard place. Evil terrorist in Hamas and a very aggressive overlord in Isreal. The average Gaza resident is fucked so I simply can’t help but feel for them.
 

I have no religious bias or race. I may be a bigot sometimes but not racist.
I really couldn’t care less as long as the people in question follow the golden rule.  
 

so to wrap it up I think that the pushback against isreal is not necessarily a race thing but more likely an optics thing. Killing tens of thousands to avenge a few thousand is horrible to the casual observer. 
 

nothing easy about this. I fucking hate violence. 
 

[Gregmal]

31 minutes ago, Jaygo said:

Likely my only post in this thread but it may be an eye opener for you cubs. 
I am not really paying attention to this war. I don’t read the news or watch it. I get dribs and drabs of info and that’s about it. 
 

my opinion is simple. Bad guys did very bad things that need to be dealt with. Isreal likely doesn’t have a right to be there but lines were drawn and it is what it is. My feeling on the history is that we are responsible for our actions today and not of our fathers. If the native Canadians started asking for their land back they would have zero right to it in my opinion. And if they tried to occupy the land they would be the oppressor.  
 

Gaza seems like the underdog here that is stuck between a rock and a hard place. Evil terrorist in Hamas and a very aggressive overlord in Isreal. The average Gaza resident is fucked so I simply can’t help but feel for them.
 

I have no religious bias or race. I may be a bigot sometimes but not racist.
I really couldn’t care less as long as the people in question follow the golden rule.  
 

so to wrap it up I think that the pushback against isreal is not necessarily a race thing but more likely an optics thing. Killing tens of thousands to avenge a few thousand is horrible to the casual observer. 
 

nothing easy about this. I fucking hate violence. 
 

Well said. I sympathize with both. And I’m tired of our scumbag politicians monetizing stuff like this. 

[whatstheofficerproblem]

20 minutes ago, Jaygo said:

If the native Canadians started asking for their land back they would have zero right to it in my opinion.

 

I think they absolutely do have a right to it after what they've been put through. A total civilization wiped out. In fact, the colonizers actually expected that to happen, which is why they were almost wiped out. If the natives start having 6-8 kids each and also have the support of let's say more than 2 Billion people, they could slowly take institutional power and they technically can take back this land. But we can all sleep peacefully because we know that is never gonna happen, the most natives get in congress is Elizabeth Warren.

 

24 minutes ago, Jaygo said:

Gaza seems like the underdog here that is stuck between a rock and a hard place. Evil terrorist in Hamas and a very aggressive overlord in Isreal. The average Gaza resident is fucked so I simply can’t help but feel for them.

 

I agree with this. But I also see no other way around it, if Hamas uses tunnels and civilian areas to fire and a military state then it is the civilians who are going to die, Israel can't just keep taking it because of humanitarian reasons, people have forgotten what wars are like.

 

Again on social media as soon as we say war they say this isn't a war this is a genocide. Why is this a genocide? because Israel has bigger guns? Then that means America has committed genocide in Afghanistan, broader ME & Vietnam.. but wait, they weren't wiped out were they? If Israel really wanted to, they can totally just throw a barrage and call it day, but they aren't doing it.

 

War in and of itself is a crime against humanity. The notion of 'War Crimes' is blatantly hypocritical and stupid. So you set rules on what are the ethical ways to kill each other? Is this is a joke? Who in their right mind would follow these? Every person in the west is a literal beneficiary of a million 'War Crimes' if you dig deep.

 

I'll give you an example, Medieval Indian kings, who have never faced true barbarians aside from greeks (who are actually gentlemen compared to later invaders) used to have a similar 'war crime' rule book. Women and children were off limit, you could not hit an enemy from the back, you could not engage in battle after dawn, this was a stupid video game to then. Then came the timurids and the central asians, literal necrophiles who spared neither infants nor women, no young no old, they did not know how to fight with them and thought using their owns ways against them was beneath them, and at the end we see the islamization of northern India.

 

In short, as the Chinese say, "Compassion to the enemy is cruelty to oneself". Israel, despite all it's flaws has been way more compassionate than any one else in this situation. If the US of A was attacked from civilian areas, we would without a doubt go ballistic on them, because America is so big it answers to no one, Russia, China, EU countries would have all done the same. The case study of Israel is that of bad PR and a shameless enemy, beware, every one must face it every once in a while.

[Xerxes]

^^^
you might be confusing “genocide” with “war crimes” and using those interchangeably at times.
 

You may not be committing genocide but going all-in with war crimes. The reverse is harder to do. And of course both can be happening at the same time and also neither can be happening. 
 

The “what if US” scenarios are just time-tested rabbit hole that people use to back their argument. The twitter machine is full of “what ifs”. But they can cut both ways. Of course folks using the “what if” use only the edge that doesn’t cut their argument. 

 

————-general comment———-

I personally barely follow social media and read any non-sense from either side, except actual news that makes it to mainstream. I like to be brainwashed by mainstream media. Last bit of new being the ICC ruling. 
 

Overall I find these type of discussions are utterly pointless and extremely unhealthy.

 

And also this is not a game of football, that you need to rally to one banner and declare yourself to be a “fan”. And that there is only one “right”. Here several things can be truth at the same time. You are all investors. Surely you must know that. 
 

But hey if you cannot help it please use Twitter/X for your daily emotional outbursts that needs outing. It is a digital town-square after all. At least you get hundreds of retweets. 

 

Now can we talk about the Kurds, Yzidies, Armenians, Rohingyas. And other helpless fu&ks that don’t even have the luxury of having a thread in an investment forum let alone having a country (for the middle two). 
 

 

[cubsfan]

10 hours ago, whatstheofficerproblem said:

 

I agree with this. But I also see no other way around it, if Hamas uses tunnels and civilian areas to fire and a military state then it is the civilians who are going to die, Israel can't just keep taking it because of humanitarian reasons, people have forgotten what wars are like.

 

We need to be real this. This is what, the 4th war with Palestinians  now??

 

IF you think there will not be a 5th or 6th, you're dreaming. The only chance the Israelis have to stop another war is to completely destroy Hamas. The fools are still launching missiles into Israel.

 

A much weaker military power decides to attack a much stronger military believing their will be no consequences AND has the gall to take hostages. Hamas has assured it's utter destruction.

 

It's very humane to feel for the people of Gaza - but this is their duly elected government.