Cryptocurrencies

[Suri22]

On 11/14/2022 at 2:31 PM, Gregmal said:

Of course and this is all accurate. The past few years have been spent basically being a crypto promotion. But that doesn’t remove the fact that there is utility to it. Or undermine the idea that huge portions of the investment community are simply lazily and prideful and therefor refuse to admit that things without cash flows have value too. Of course most of the time they do, but definitely not all the time. 
 

Sports teams I guess are one of the longest running manias in the world along with art, although now there’s a movement to try to say they’re all tax based benefits….it’s a scary world when the ti-83 doesn’t tell you what to pay for something! Hey, just slap a 10-15x multiple on it…. I mean serious investing shouldn’t be that easy, at least not all the time.

 

so all last 10 years is just crypto promotion so you first moving advantage people can   pump and dump later for bag holders ? ??? by painted  narrative that this is an alternative ???

 

I would like to know if you still buy it if that coins cannot be converted by back to dollars $ ?

 

 

  what utility does the coin has it would you care to explain that ?? 

 

and internet derived realty is not decentralized..  would you be more specific with example backed reason ?

[rkbabang]

18 hours ago, james22 said:

 

$2

Sold!  (digital copy only, as I already threw out the physical one).

1PhFJLCgZcpGxfVijQQCFdf7GMt3JDJjEp

 

[Gregmal]

5 minutes ago, Surya said:

so all last 10 years is just crypto promotion so you first moving advantage people can   pump and dump later for bag holders ? ??? by painted  narrative that this is an alternative ???

Fill in FANG stocks and you have the same sort of philosophical question. The last decade was spent promoting their gloriousness and ability to replace existing societal functions while early investors cashed out. 

[Suri22]

4 minutes ago, Gregmal said:

Fill in FANG stocks and you have the same sort of philosophical question. The last decade was spent promoting their gloriousness and ability to replace existing societal functions while early investors cashed out. 

 

 you are completely evading  from the point, all FANG companies built their business  on the "internet" which is built and regulated by governments, not by any anonymous person ,

those companies are product of 0% interest rates and capitalists that drive that companies

 

There is No  decentralized internet over there ?

they are purely profit driven public listed companies who sell their products

 

https://www.ntia.doc.gov/book-page/who-regulates-spectrum

 

 

So that means  your saying that all crypto are all private companies , purely profit driven but you paint a narrative that this will be alternative currency for societal good  so you can profit first .. just like what SBF and FTX did ???

[Gregmal]

5 minutes ago, Surya said:

 

 you are completely evading  from the point, all FANG companies built their business  on the "internet" which is built and regulated by governments, not by any anonymous person ,

those companies are product of 0% interest rates and capitalists that drive that companies

 

There is No  decentralized internet over there ?

they are purely profit driven public listed companies who sell their products

 

https://www.ntia.doc.gov/book-page/who-regulates-spectrum

 

 

So that means  your saying that all crypto are all private companies , purely profit driven but you paint a narrative that this will be alternative currency for societal good  so you can profit first .. just like what SBF and FTX did ???

Its a fun but speculative playing field with tons of landmines and pots of gold. By the time everyone comes to a consensus on all the ?s the money will have been made. I wouldnt overcomplicate it. 

[rkbabang]

6 minutes ago, Surya said:

 

 you are completely evading  from the point, all FANG companies built their business  on the "internet" which is built and regulated by governments, not by any anonymous person ,

those companies are product of 0% interest rates and capitalists that drive that companies

 

There is No  decentralized internet over there ?

they are purely profit driven public listed companies who sell their products

 

https://www.ntia.doc.gov/book-page/who-regulates-spectrum

 

 

So that means  your saying that all crypto are all private companies , purely profit driven but you paint a narrative that this will be alternative currency for societal good  so you can profit first .. just like what SBF and FTX did ???

 

You are conflating so many different topics/concepts in this post it is hard to even respond to it.  The backbone of the internet was largely created by private companies with some government funding.  Spectrum is for wireless only and regulated by the US government in the US.   You can go get yourself a domain name, set up a website and no one will regulate what you put on it.   Websites are run by private companies, individuals, educational institutions, governments and everything else you can think of.   Crypto exists on that same internet.  FTX was a centralized exchange as was every exchange failure since Mt. Gox.  Centralized exchange failures happen and will continue to happen.

[Suri22]

8 minutes ago, rkbabang said:

 

You are conflating so many different topics/concepts in this post it is hard to even respond to it.  The backbone of the internet was largely created by private companies with some government funding.  Spectrum is for wireless only and regulated by the US government in the US.   You can go get yourself a domain name, set up a website and no one will regulate what you put on it.   Websites are run by private companies, individuals, educational institutions, governments and everything else you can think of.   Crypto exists on that same internet.  FTX was a centralized exchange as was every exchange failure since Mt. Gox.  Centralized exchange failures happen and will continue to happen.

like said topic got evaded however i disagree internet was created by federal funding initially, https://www.govtech.com/archive/who-invented-the-internet.html#:~:text=The Internet did start with,we know today%2C Cerf wrote.

 

its not decentralized like Bitcoin

 

 

coming to the topic my only question is why do crypto enthusiast call it alternative currency,  when they only interested in dollar value of it rather than using it as a currency to buy consumer goods ?

[rkbabang]

13 minutes ago, Surya said:

like said topic got evaded however i disagree internet was created by federal funding initially, https://www.govtech.com/archive/who-invented-the-internet.html#:~:text=The Internet did start with,we know today%2C Cerf wrote.

 

its not decentralized like Bitcoin

 

 

coming to the topic my only question is why do crypto enthusiast call it alternative currency,  when they only interested in dollar value of it rather than using it as a currency to buy consumer goods ?

 

Does it really matter where something was invented or by who?  I was talking about the major build out to get it to the everyday consumer you are talking about who first developed it.  Would it make a difference in our lives today if the lightbulb was invented by a government agency rather than Edison?   Whether something is decentralized has nothing to do with who invented it.  For all we know Satashi could be a front for a group within the NSA.   It doesn't matter now because it exists.

 

Most enthusiasts long for the day when we can walk into any store and purchase something with Bitcoin.  That day will come.  One step at a time.

 

[james22]

1 hour ago, rkbabang said:

Sold!  (digital copy only, as I already threw out the physical one).

1PhFJLCgZcpGxfVijQQCFdf7GMt3JDJjEp

 

 

Shame, would have flipped the physical one for a pretty penny.

[Gregmal]

Man this FTX guy is a true liberal. Still shamelessly unapologetic and blaming everyone else including his girlfriend. 

[Castanza]

 

hmm 

 

 

 

Also Hmmm 

Edited November 17, 2022 by Castanza

[Viking]

In the end putting money into crypto is like going to Vegas. People view a Vegas trip as entertainment and an expense (well, most people). Not as a revenue opportunity and an investment. And as entertainment, we got a first class stable of outstanding commercials from crypto that we can now enjoy forever. Priceless.

—————

Crypto is just an other chapter in the long book/history of moments of insanity/madness of crowds. I suspect the chapter has not yet been fully written. The next 6 months will be interesting as we learn more fully who has been swimming naked.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 17, 2022 by Viking

[Xerxes]

On 11/16/2022 at 9:16 AM, rkbabang said:

This article is from 2009, by the late L. Neil Smith.  Technically Bitcoin existed already, but the author hadn't heard of it yet.  His point on gold toward the end is what I want to point out.

 

from: "The Money of Your Choice" by L. Neil Smith and Rylla Cathryn Smith

https://ncc-1776.org/tle2009/tle507-20090222-02.html

 

"In the 16th century, the economy of Spain was more or less destroyed when conquistadores brought home tons of gold they'd looted from the New World. The value of gold, relative to other things, plummeted because the more there is of anything, the less any of it is worth, a phenomenon economists refer to as the "Law of Marginal Utility". Spain ceased to be a world power and became, instead, the first "sick man of Europe". In many ways, it has never recovered.

(The Law of Marginal Utility, we insist, is not a law of economics or any kind of physical phenomenon—the quality of a commodity does not change simply because there is more or less of it—but is psychological in nature. If Man A has a thousand gold ounces, and Man B has a hundred, Man A will be less concerned about spending ten of his ounces, possibly because he will have many more left, at the end of such a transaction, than would Man B.)

The future of monetary standards based on precious metals lies in the stars, or, more accurately, in the Asteroid Belt, where roughly a third of the millions of rocks circling the Sun between Mars and Jupiter are composed of metals, mostly iron and nickel. Other metals are present in lesser amounts: it has been said that a single metallic asteroid a mile in diameter contains more gold than has ever been mined on Earth, lying within relatively easy reach of the asteroid's surface.

Thanks to the Law of Marginal Utility, importing that much gold would halve the perceived value of the gold we already possess. Given a future that offers relatively easy and inexpensive means of importing gold and other metals from space—current proposals for "space elevators" present just such an opportunity—within this century, the entire future global economy could be affected in exactly the same way that Spain's was 500 years ago, if America (and humanity) relies on gold and gold alone as a monetary standard. On the other hand, allowing the market to decide, and to constantly re-decide, what is money—and what is not—would prevent such a catastrophe."

 

 

 

Thanks for posting.

Looks like Spain had caught the Dutch disease before the Dutch, they just did not know it at the time. Speaking of the curse and blessing of the Spanish gold, I went down to Xerxes's Imperial Archives and pulled out these two ancient scrolls, concerning the Curse.

 

Here are the passages: "... At the sametime, the influx of bullions from the Americas, was begening to hole the Ottoman economy below the waterline, in ways there were barely understood. The Ottoman had resources to outstay any competitors in the business of war, but they were powerless to protect their stable, traditional, self-sufficient world against the more perinicious effects of modernity. There were no defensive bastion against rising European prices and inflationary effect of gold. In 1566, the year after Malta, the gold mint in Cairo - the only one in the Ottoman world, producing coins from limited supplies of African gold - devalued its coinage by 30 percent. The Spanish real became the most appeciated currency in the Ottoman empire ... "

 

Empires of the Sea: The Siege of Malta, the Battle of Lepanto, and the Contest for the Center of the World: Crowley, Roger, Lee, John: 9781400157228: Books - Amazon.ca

 

Second passage: "Once the gold began to arrive in quantity, the Spanish were far more proficent at spending than at producing. The massive import of gold and silver stimulated the spending skills at the sametime that they stifled Spain's incentive to produce. Spain acted liked a poor man who makes a great windfall at gambeling tables but comes to believe that the money is his destiney rather than a nonrecurring event. ..... the more gold that came in, the less the Kingdom has, Though our Kingdom should be the richest of the world ..."

 

The Power of Gold: The History of an Obsession: Bernstein, Peter L.: 9780471003786: Books - Amazon.ca

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 17, 2022 by Xerxes

[rkbabang]

3 minutes ago, Xerxes said:

 

Thanks for posting.

Looks like Spain had caught the Dutch disease before the Dutch, they just did not know it at the time. Speaking of the curse and blessing of the Spanish gold, I went down to Xerxes's Imperial Archives and pulled out these two ancient scrolls, concerning the Curse.

 

Here are the passages: "... At the sametime, the influx of bullions from the Americas, was begening to hole the Ottoman economy below the waterline, in ways there were barely understood. The Ottoman had resources to outstay any competitors in the business of war, but they were powerless to protect their stable, traditional, self-sufficient world against the more perinicious effects of modernity. There were no defensive bastion against rising European prices and inflationary effect of gold. In 1566, the year after Malta, the gold mint in Cairo - the only one in the Ottoman world, producing coins from limited supplies of African gold - devalued its coinage by 30 percent. The Spanish real became the most appeciated currency in the Ottoman empire ... "

 

Empires of the Sea: The Siege of Malta, the Battle of Lepanto, and the Contest for the Center of the World: Crowley, Roger, Lee, John: 9781400157228: Books - Amazon.ca

 

Second passage: "Once the gold began to arrive in quantity, the Spanish were far more proficent at spending than at producing. The massive import of gold and silver stimulated the spending skills at the sametime that they stifled Spain's incentive to produce. Spain acted liked a poor man who makes a great windfall at gambeling tables but comes to believe that the money is his destiney rather than a nonrecurring event. ..... the more gold that came in, the less the Kingdom has, Though our Kingdom should be the richest of the world ..."

 

The Power of Gold: The History of an Obsession: Bernstein, Peter L.: 9780471003786: Books - Amazon.ca

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for sharing wise words from the great Library of Xerxes.

[Parsad]

4 hours ago, Gregmal said:

Man this FTX guy is a true liberal. Still shamelessly unapologetic and blaming everyone else including his girlfriend. 

 

Greg, what the hell does that mean?  Fucking entire GOP is blaming the media and corrupt election officials for the election results and you decide to throw this political barb about "liberals" into the conversation about cryptocurrencies.  Do you see why you piss people off?!

[Gregmal]

11 minutes ago, Parsad said:

 

Greg, what the hell does that mean?  Fucking entire GOP is blaming the media and corrupt election officials for the election results and you decide to throw this political barb about "liberals" into the conversation about cryptocurrencies.  Do you see why you piss people off?!

Sure I could have put the thought together better, but you see the publicity, pre blowup, you see all the political donations and hobnobbing. And its like oh, fits the patterns. Epstein was a big Schumer/Clinton/Spitzer donor...look who Weinstein did a lot of campaigning for, now this guy? 

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-11-17/bankman-fried-turns-toxic-in-congress-even-among-those-he-backed

[Parsad]

3 minutes ago, Gregmal said:

Sure I could have put the thought together better, but you see the publicity, pre blowup, you see all the political donations and hobnobbing. And its like oh, fits the patterns. Epstein was a big Schumer/Clinton/Spitzer donor...look who Weinstein did a lot of campaigning for, now this guy? 

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-11-17/bankman-fried-turns-toxic-in-congress-even-among-those-he-backed

 

There's jackasses on both sides.  I'm pretty sure the guys at Enron and Lehman Bros weren't donating to Clinton or Obama.  Cheers!

[John Hjorth]

@Gregmal,

 

Thanks for the elaboration, which makes sense, at least to me personally. What a charlatan, [advanced level], if he has used customer funds to political donations. Time will eventually tell.

[Gregmal]

Who could forget about this guy too!

 

https://www.opensecrets.org/news/2008/12/madoff-and-company-spent-nearl/

 

The following party committees, PACs and current members of Congress have received contributions from Madoff and his wife since the 1992 election cycle: 

Name	Party	Total
Democratic Senatorial Campaign Cmte	D	$102,000
Securities Industry Assn		$31,000
Wyden, Ron	D	$13,000
Schumer, Charles E	D	$12,000
Markey, Edward J	D	$10,000
Securities Industry & Financial Mkt Assn		$10,000
Lautenberg, Frank R	D	$8,600
Merkley, Jeff	D	$2,300
Clinton, Hillary	D	$2,000
Rangel, Charles B	D	$2,000
Towns, Edolphus	D	$2,000
Dodd, Christopher J	D	$1,500
Ackerman, Gary	D	$1,200
Dingell, John D	D	$1,000
Obey, David R	D	$1,000
Matheson, Jim	D	$250
National Abortion Rights Action League		$250

[Gregmal]

36 minutes ago, Parsad said:

I'm pretty sure the guys at Enron and Lehman Bros weren't donating to Clinton or Obama.  Cheers!

Fuld, Richard S Jr GREENWICH, CT 06831	Lehman Brothers/Chairman and Ceo	$2,300	10/19/2007	G	HILLARY CLINTON FOR PRESIDENT - Democrat
Fuld, Richard S Jr GREENWICH, CT 06831	lehman Brothers/Fiance	$2,300	05/30/2007	P	OBAMA FOR AMERICA - Democrat
Fuld, Richard S GREENWICH, CT 06831	Lehman Brothers/Chairman and Ceo	$2,300	05/29/2007	P	HILLARY CLINTON FOR PRESIDENT - Democrat
FULD, RICHARD NEW YORK, NY 10285	LEHMAN BROTHERS/MANAGING DIRECTOR	$10,000	04/09/2007	P	DEMOCRATIC SENATORIAL CAMPAIGN COMMITTEE - Democrat

Edited November 17, 2022 by Gregmal

[Viking]

6 hours ago, Gregmal said:

Man this FTX guy is a true liberal. Still shamelessly unapologetic and blaming everyone else including his girlfriend. 

@Gregmal, you have a far better example than SBF. Trump is in a class of his own when it comes lying/doing unethical & questionable things. All the while being  “shamelessly unapologetic and blaming everyone else”. Come on… Trump is the GOAT. 
 

Every once in a while we get a glimpse into how rotten the US political system is. Its not a liberal or conservative thing.

[Parsad]

52 minutes ago, Gregmal said:

Fuld, Richard S Jr GREENWICH, CT 06831	Lehman Brothers/Chairman and Ceo	$2,300	10/19/2007	G	HILLARY CLINTON FOR PRESIDENT - Democrat
Fuld, Richard S Jr GREENWICH, CT 06831	lehman Brothers/Fiance	$2,300	05/30/2007	P	OBAMA FOR AMERICA - Democrat
Fuld, Richard S GREENWICH, CT 06831	Lehman Brothers/Chairman and Ceo	$2,300	05/29/2007	P	HILLARY CLINTON FOR PRESIDENT - Democrat
FULD, RICHARD NEW YORK, NY 10285	LEHMAN BROTHERS/MANAGING DIRECTOR	$10,000	04/09/2007	P	DEMOCRATIC SENATORIAL CAMPAIGN COMMITTEE - Democrat

 

You just like to present only one side of every argument.  Pretty much a Trumptard thing!

 

https://www.latimes.com/archives/blogs/top-of-the-ticket/story/2008-10-07/opinion-lehman-brothers-boss-spread-money-around-capitol-hill-and-got-some-back

 

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=121259&page=1

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2002/01/25/business/enron-s-collapse-campaign-finance-enron-andersen-made-donations-almost-all-their.html

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/jeffrey-epstein-politicians-connections-donations-2019-7

[Gregmal]

All you stated is that:

I'm pretty sure the guys at Enron and Lehman Bros weren't donating to Clinton or Obama.

 

 They, and Fuld specifically, WERE donating to both parties but predominantly Democrat....thats all. 

 

Of course big players hedge their bets, the FTX guy sent some cash to Republicans as well, but the overwhelming majority of the money goes to one party. 

[Gregmal]

1 hour ago, Parsad said:

I'm pretty sure the guys at Enron and Lehman Bros weren't donating to Clinton or Obama.  Cheers!

Thats it. They did. 

[Parsad]

11 minutes ago, Gregmal said:

Thats it. They did. 

 

And the GOP get their funding from underground organizations.  They fucking do everything in the shadows...whereas the Dems are just plain stupid and do it in front of everyone. 

 

https://www.npr.org/2016/01/19/463551038/dark-money-delves-into-how-koch-brothers-donations-push-their-political-agenda

 

I still don't understand your point about making it a liberal or conservative thing.  Both parties do it, both sides do it.  You aren't dumb enough to not know that...and you're intelligent enough where you actually know what the truth is...so stop pushing the agenda over and over again!  Cheers!