India

[Haryana]

Did Indian agents kill Nijjar in Canada or was it done by his local compatriots?

 

https://globalnews.ca/news/9784316/hardeep-singh-nijjar-death-surrey-b-c/

[According to Surrey provincial court records, Nijjar was charged with assault in March 2019, but the case was stayed that December.

A later dispute over a commercial printing press may have put Nijjar at odds with Ripudaman Singh Malik, who was acquitted of involvement in the deadly 1985 Air India bombings.

The machine was purchased by Malik and a partner, who intended to use it to print Sikh religious scripture, according to court documents.

Malik handed the press over to Nijjar in November 2020 “for safekeeping,” according to B.C. Supreme Court records.

But Nijjar refused to return it, a civil suit alleged. Malik was murdered in July 2022. A lawsuit launched in February 2023 sought the return of the equipment.]

[Xerxes]

I am big fan of India. A united India. 
 

But disgusted and disturbed by allegations of its spy agencies conducting assassination of Canadians on our very own soil. 
 

It is one thing to push back on allegations and expelling diplomats, but when you stop issuing VISAs to everyday folk that says more about you ….

 

I am not a big fan of Trudeau who constantly needs to throw his liberal values on other countries, but here he did the right thing if this is true. 

Edited September 21, 2023 by Xerxes

[adesigar]

3 hours ago, Xerxes said:

I am big fan of India. A united India. 
 

But disgusted and disturbed by allegations of its spy agencies conducting assassination of Canadians on our very own soil. 
 

It is one thing to push back on allegations and expelling diplomats, but when you stop issuing VISAs to everyday folk that says more about you ….

 

I am not a big fan of Trudeau who constantly needs to throw his liberal values on other countries, but here he did the right thing if this is true. 

 

I am disgusted and disturbed by allegations without any proof. Why should anyone believe what the Canadians say? They are acting like the world should believe what they spout because they are a rich western country.

 

Also why should the Indian embassy keep issuing visas to Canadians? That says more about you. Seems you think getting an Indian visa is right. 

 

I am extremely happy with the response from India. 

[Xerxes]

23 minutes ago, adesigar said:

 

I am disgusted and disturbed by allegations without any proof. Why should anyone believe what the Canadians say? They are acting like the world should believe what they spout because they are a rich western country.

 

Also why should the Indian embassy keep issuing visas to Canadians? That says more about you. Seems you think getting an Indian visa is right. 

 

I am extremely happy with the response from India. 

good thing I said “… if it is true” 

 

I am guessing you are from India. Please correct me if I am wrong. Either way, no matter where you are from, no need to get all excited  … I expect both governments to keep their garage behaviour at diplomatic staff. And not affect everyday people travelling there and back .. many of whom are Canadian Indians. 
 

Now if you want to re-frame that as “Canadian think it is their god given right to get a Visa”, … that is more your issue and says something about you 

 

but I understand that you reserve the right to twist more words further.

[no_free_lunch]

I don't know the whole situation but my gut is we should not be involved.  I would need proof. 

[Xerxes]

By the way. I don’t discriminate. I don’t care if you are some asshole from Mossad, CIA, Iranian intelligence, FSB or Indian spy agency, they should all keep their crap out of my country. Period. 

[Xerxes]

2 minutes ago, no_free_lunch said:

I don't know the whole situation but my gut is we should not be involved.  I would need proof. 

I don’t know either. But then again, did we ever got proof that a hit was ordered on that poor guy in Istanbul by the Royal Court in Riyadh. Aside the fact that business jet flew there with assassins. Yet we take that as a fact. But where is the proof. 

There are certain details that might never get to published publicly, given that it reveals the inner working of the spy agencies.  

[Parsad]

2 hours ago, adesigar said:

 

I am disgusted and disturbed by allegations without any proof. Why should anyone believe what the Canadians say? They are acting like the world should believe what they spout because they are a rich western country.

 

Also why should the Indian embassy keep issuing visas to Canadians? That says more about you. Seems you think getting an Indian visa is right. 

 

I am extremely happy with the response from India. 

 

This actually happened not far from where I live.  I actually go to the Krispy Kreme (only one in BC) that faces the temple where Nijjar was shot.  Nijjar was warned by CSIS and RCMP that his life was at risk from potential threats...he was even asking if he should wear a bullet-proof vest.  Unlike the head of Khalsa Credit Union and Khalsa Schools who was killed a couple of years ago, Nijjar had no links to criminal activity.  The two young assassins have still not been located.  There were a number of warnings to Nijjar and the Sikh community here in Vancouver that India was targeting certain individuals.  It will come out!  There is a very high probability that this was state-sanctioned not dissimilar to Jamal Khashoggi.  

 

Trudeau did not handle this appropriately.  It should have run through security channels between India and Canada, not in the open like Trudeau made it.  This creates two problems and a shitload of tension:  First, Sikhs were already distrusting of the Indian government.  Second, like back in the 80's after the Golden Temple raid by Indira Gandhi, you may see significant terrorist activity in India and abroad.  This was neither a smart move by Trudeau, nor India if they did this!  And it certainly looks like India had a hand in it.  How deep it goes...did Modi know?  Was this a rogue hit by India's security personnel?  That will all come out over time.

 

I think Modi is overreacting by suspending visas.  It will just hurt business and business owners.  While he's done many good things on a socio-economic front, his nationalistic tendencies are alienating minority groups in India and their diaspora around the world.  Cheers! 

[Spekulatius]

Trudeau can't make open accusations but then has nothing to show. If he can't share intelligence, then he can't go public either and needs to work diplomatic channels only. Seems like a very elementary mistake.

[Xerxes]

I heard that the story was coming out from the media, and he wanted to get in front of it. And that he did confront Modi when he was there for G20 but got no traction. 
 

Like I said I am not a fan of Trudeau spewing out his liberal nonsense on anything and interfering in other’ affairs. But I also not a fan of large Asian economic powers using their economic clout and treat Canada as their playground, whenever it pleases them. Saudis pulled the same type of bullshit, and then the Chinese and now Delhi is trying its hand. 
 

Now if Trudeau is just spewing out nonsense, then he needs to be fired by Canadian people. But if it is real and he did the right thing. Enough is enough. 
 

it is also possible that it is real and he just executed poorly or got irked by G20 and getting stuck there or doing it for domestic pow-wow. But then again he is politician. 

[Parsad]

4 hours ago, Xerxes said:

I heard that the story was coming out from the media, and he wanted to get in front of it. And that he did confront Modi when he was there for G20 but got no traction. 
 

Like I said I am not a fan of Trudeau spewing out his liberal nonsense on anything and interfering in other’ affairs. But I also not a fan of large Asian economic powers using their economic clout and treat Canada as their playground, whenever it pleases them. Saudis pulled the same type of bullshit, and then the Chinese and now Delhi is trying its hand. 
 

 

Totally agree with this!  A lot of irregular state-sanctioned behavior occurring in a sovereign nation's jurisdiction...there has to be a response or investigation.  How he handled it is debatable, but something had to be done as well.  Cheers!

[mcliu]

It sounds like Canada was trying to keep this confidential and work the back channels but reporters caught wind and were going to break the story.

Evidence is confidential given the “investigation” but sources have leaked:

 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/sikh-nijjar-india-canada-trudeau-modi-1.6974607
 

The Canadian government has amassed both human and signals intelligence in a months-long investigation of a Sikh activist's death that has inflamed relations with India, sources tell CBC News.

 

That intelligence includes communications involving Indian officials themselves, including Indian diplomats present in Canada, say Canadian government sources.

 

The intelligence did not come solely from Canada. Some was provided by an unnamed ally in the Five Eyes intelligence alliance.

 

Canadian sources say that, when pressed behind closed doors, no Indian official has denied the bombshell allegation at the core of this case — that there is evidence to suggest Indian government involvement in the assassination of a Canadian citizen on Canadian soil.

[Xerxes]

I hate to say it but looks like Ben Watsa coming out on podcast and BNN marked the “top” of the India-Canadian relation 

[patience_and_focus]

On 9/21/2023 at 12:51 PM, Parsad said:

 Unlike the head of Khalsa Credit Union and Khalsa Schools who was killed a couple of years ago, Nijjar had no links to criminal activity. 

 

I am not justifying the murder of anyone here. But there are millions of Sikhs in US and India, why target one that is of no real consequence to jeopardize all important relationships between countries. From what I have read across the communique over the years between India and Canada, I am sure the Indian govt disagrees with him having no links to criminal activities and had put multiple requests to extradite him and others for providing material support to insurgents including one request from former Punjab chief minister Capt. Amarinder Singh, who is a fellow Sikh, during Trudeau visit in 2018 to India  

 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-sikh-singh-1.4544790 - 

"But Singh himself gave a very different account to Indian media, saying that he had raised the issue of support for Khalistan in the Canadian Sikh diaspora and adding that Canada is one of the countries from which diaspora money flows to separatists in Punjab...."

 

Unfortunately for Canada and Indian Canadians, the group related to insurgency (which as per Indian govt, Nijjar was purportedly part of) have history of things like bombing airplanes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_India_Flight_182) and killing fellow Sikhs who disagree with them during the decade of insurgency in India in the 1980s. It is incredible that current Prime Minister's father was in power when the plane was blown up and after 20 years of "investigation" they had 1 person charged with manslaughter and nothing much else. An equivalent bombing is Pan Am 103 that everyone in western world know, but hardly anyone knows about AI 182.

 

A vast vast majority of Sikhs in India and Canada are not supporters of violence, but the Canadian govt has for decades turned a blind eye towards the few who are involved in a very active fund raising and logistical support to insurgency that has killed hundreds of thousands.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_India_Flight_182

"The Babbar Khalsa, a Sikh militant and Khalistani separatist group was implicated in the bombings........

During the 1970s, many Sikhs emigrated to western Canada. These included men who later became leaders and members of the Babbar Khalsa including Talwinder Singh Parmar, Ajaib Singh Bagri, Ripudaman Singh Malik and Inderjit Singh Reyat. By the 1980s, the area around Vancouver, British Columbia, had become the largest centre of Sikh population outside India"

 

https://globalnews.ca/news/9969537/who-is-hardeep-singh-nijjar/

" In 1997, Nijjar came to Canada, claiming he had been beaten and tortured by Indian police. In 1998, his refugee claim was denied. According to his immigration records, he used a fraudulent passport that identified him as “Ravi Sharma.”..................................

 

In 2014, a few months after India’s Prime Minister Narendra Modi, a Hindu nationalist, took office, Indian authorities issued an arrest warrant for Nijjar. New Delhi described Nijjar as the “mastermind” of the militant group Khalistan Tiger Force.

He was accused of being involved in the 2007 bombing of a cinema in Punjab. A 2016 Interpol notice against him alleged he was a “key conspirator” in the attack. He was accused of recruiting and fundraising, a charge that Nijjar vehemently denied."

Edited September 24, 2023 by patience_and_focus

[Xerxes]

Why did Xi diverged from Deng’ footsteps and chose to no longer “be patient and to hide his strength” at the cost of upsetting real tangible economic relationship with United States.
 

Not to say that Canada is important to India as US was to China. 
 

But sometimes pride gets in the way. 
 

 

 

PS:  PLA Navy doesn’t need aircraft carriers. They would be better suited to have a larger number of submarines. I even recall an American admiral making the comment how he prefers Beijing obsession about large fleet of aircraft carriers in the long term than a larger submarine fleet that could be America’ naval assets at risk. 
 

Delhi doesn’t/didn’t need to assassinate that fellow. But it is a sign of great power status to do so. Backed by “don’t you dare tell me what to do”. 
 

 

 

 

Edited September 24, 2023 by Xerxes

[Vish_ram]

It is sad to see Canada turn to aid and abet terrorism in India. The chickens always come home to roost. 

[mcliu]

Seems like the narrative is changing from “where’s the proof” to “but he’s a terrorist.”

[Xerxes]

25 minutes ago, mcliu said:

Seems like the narrative is changing from “where’s the proof” to “but he’s a terrorist.”

yeah exactly 

 

soon there would upcoming comparison to America going after bearded men w/o impunity. And how come Delhi is not allowed to do conduct assassination on foreign soil. 

 

That said I am about tired of Liberals and Trudeau. I was & am voting conservative next election. Whenever that might be. They have been mismanaging our foreign policy. But every time some Asian power throws its economic weight and bullies us, I do like a government that stands up.  
 

 

[mcliu]

10 years of Trudeau gave us negative per capita GDP, weaker C$ broken healthcare, housing crisis, immigration crisis, broken education, depleted and broken military, record debt and deficits and multiple foreign policy fiascos. Probably time for some change. 

[Parsad]

On 9/23/2023 at 10:32 PM, patience_and_focus said:

 

I am not justifying the murder of anyone here. But there are millions of Sikhs in US and India, why target one that is of no real consequence to jeopardize all important relationships between countries. From what I have read across the communique over the years between India and Canada, I am sure the Indian govt disagrees with him having no links to criminal activities and had put multiple requests to extradite him and others for providing material support to insurgents including one request from former Punjab chief minister Capt. Amarinder Singh, who is a fellow Sikh, during Trudeau visit in 2018 to India  

 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-sikh-singh-1.4544790 - 

"But Singh himself gave a very different account to Indian media, saying that he had raised the issue of support for Khalistan in the Canadian Sikh diaspora and adding that Canada is one of the countries from which diaspora money flows to separatists in Punjab...."

 

Unfortunately for Canada and Indian Canadians, the group related to insurgency (which as per Indian govt, Nijjar was purportedly part of) have history of things like bombing airplanes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_India_Flight_182) and killing fellow Sikhs who disagree with them during the decade of insurgency in India in the 1980s. It is incredible that current Prime Minister's father was in power when the plane was blown up and after 20 years of "investigation" they had 1 person charged with manslaughter and nothing much else. An equivalent bombing is Pan Am 103 that everyone in western world know, but hardly anyone knows about AI 182.

 

A vast vast majority of Sikhs in India and Canada are not supporters of violence, but the Canadian govt has for decades turned a blind eye towards the few who are involved in a very active fund raising and logistical support to insurgency that has killed hundreds of thousands.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_India_Flight_182

"The Babbar Khalsa, a Sikh militant and Khalistani separatist group was implicated in the bombings........

During the 1970s, many Sikhs emigrated to western Canada. These included men who later became leaders and members of the Babbar Khalsa including Talwinder Singh Parmar, Ajaib Singh Bagri, Ripudaman Singh Malik and Inderjit Singh Reyat. By the 1980s, the area around Vancouver, British Columbia, had become the largest centre of Sikh population outside India"

 

https://globalnews.ca/news/9969537/who-is-hardeep-singh-nijjar/

" In 1997, Nijjar came to Canada, claiming he had been beaten and tortured by Indian police. In 1998, his refugee claim was denied. According to his immigration records, he used a fraudulent passport that identified him as “Ravi Sharma.”..................................

 

In 2014, a few months after India’s Prime Minister Narendra Modi, a Hindu nationalist, took office, Indian authorities issued an arrest warrant for Nijjar. New Delhi described Nijjar as the “mastermind” of the militant group Khalistan Tiger Force.

He was accused of being involved in the 2007 bombing of a cinema in Punjab. A 2016 Interpol notice against him alleged he was a “key conspirator” in the attack. He was accused of recruiting and fundraising, a charge that Nijjar vehemently denied."

 

Canada would never reject a legitimate Interpol notice.  Where there is evidence, Canada always accommodates extradition agreements with countries it partners with unless capital punishment is involved.  

 

Regarding the Air India bombing, it was the RCMP who effed up the investigation in such a way that the accused got away with it.  Nothing to do with Trudeau's father.

 

I'm not saying Nijjar wasn't guilty of something...but there was obviously not enough evidence to extradite him or capital punishment was involved.  Nijjar had no criminal record in Canada.  Cheers!  

[ICUMD]

23 hours ago, Parsad said:

Regarding the Air India bombing, it was the RCMP who effed up the investigation in such a way that the accused got away with it.  Nothing to do with Trudeau's father.

Events like 911 and Air India come from terrorist organizations, rather than individuals.  In the case of Air India, there is no debate that militant Khalistani's held responsibility.  A lot of innocent people died including children.  Nijjar was a leader of this group having this terrible past.

 

Trudeau could have discussed the issue of Nijjar's assassination privately with Modi.  Rather, in accusing India publically (whether guilty or not), Trudeau makes many concerning unspoken statements. 

 

Most unspoken of all, his signaling of Canada as a safe haven for 'freedom of expression' once you have a Canadian passport. What a perfect breeding ground for extremism and terrorism. 

 

In any case, I suspect Trudeau days as Prime Minister will be ending in short order. Hopefully idiocy will be replaced with diplomacy.

[Xerxes]

My view is that when one takes an Oath to become a citizen of Canada, unless it is for humanitarian reasons, they need to forgo all their darkest desire vis a vis their former homeland. 
 

You cannot in all honestly take an Oath and become a citizen, yet your mind be on overdrive in achieving some sort of political agenda (be it violent or non violent) back home. That is abuse of country that gave you a new home. 
 

That said, this is not a Trudeau thing, as much as haters like to pile in. It requires a change that transcends any specific government.  

[ICUMD]

9 hours ago, Xerxes said:

My view is that when one takes an Oath to become a citizen of Canada, unless it is for humanitarian reasons, they need to forgo all their darkest desire vis a vis their former homeland. 
 

You cannot in all honestly take an Oath and become a citizen, yet your mind be on overdrive in achieving some sort of political agenda (be it violent or non violent) back home. That is abuse of country that gave you a new home. 
 

That said, this is not a Trudeau thing, as much as haters like to pile in. It requires a change that transcends any specific government.  

Agree mostly.

 

Trudeau should be upholding these values as a leader. Obviously, his priorities are elsewhere.

[sundin]

Is diplomacy really sliding extrajudicial murder under the rug and dealing with it privately? It has to be considered here that the fall out would be the same irrespective of the political party. Canadian intelligence along with the FBI had to publicly share this information with ongoing threats of Indian death squads hired to kill its citizens.

 

There's a grand amount of disinformation out there by the Indian state media including "Cocaine being found on Trudeau's plane" along with Nijjar's alleged history. All these are designed to shift the focus away from an extrajudicial killing of a Canadian citizen and to justify murder which is what the Indian media is currently doing. As Pres Obama highlighted in his memoir the RSS/Modi/Hindutva, is a real risk for future democracy of India, including freedoms and rights of minorities living in the country. India is cannot be a friend of the West if it cannot uphold its democratic ideals. 

[Spekulatius]

I watch sometimes WION and it does feel like government propaganda. This is not the case with Al Jazeera, even though Al Jazeera is controlled by Qatari government.

 

On another note, I am also surprised that some people here think it's a good thing that the Indian government would sent out kill squads to Canadian citizens in Canada because they are accused of terrorism in India.

 

Personally, I would be distraught if the German government sent out a hit men to Canada to kill a Canadian citizen of German origin (or even German citizen). Such a government should be fired in my opinion, doesn't even matter if the accusation is true or not.