Russia-Ukrainian War - Political

[cwericb]

36 minutes ago, cubsfan said:

 

Trump off to the fastest start of any president in modern history, Dems are desperate to be relevant.

 

 

 

Well, actually it is more like the Democrats are are sitting back and giving Trump enough rope to hang himself.  Seems to be starting to work out.

[cubsfan]

45 minutes ago, cwericb said:

 

Well, actually it is more like the Democrats are are sitting back and giving Trump enough rope to hang himself.  Seems to be starting to work out.

 

 

For sure - a truly despicable move by the Democratic Party leading Zelensky down this path.

 

He played games with the United States and may lose his country as a result.

 

It will be interesting to see what kind of reception he gets back at home.

[flesh]

2 hours ago, Parsad said:

 

Well so far MAGA has:

• Ended the war in Gaza...maybe
• Ended the war in Ukraine...maybe
• Brought down the price of eggs...nope
• Stock market is up...nope
• Economy is booming...nope
• Measles has been eradicated...was 15 years ago, but now is back
• Global allies are awed by Trump's negotiating skills...nope
• Epstein files show all of the non-Trump-related culprits...mostly Trump, Ivana, Ivanka
• US generosity is spreading across the world...nope
• Closest allies all love Trump...nope
• U.S. anthem is heralded all over the globe...nope
• U.S. diplomacy is at an all-time high...nope
• DOGE has saved a total of 0.05% of the U.S. budget over the next 4 years...yup!

Great start to the Trump era for the first 40 days!  Cheers!

I’m not maga, just want the deficit at 3% if gdp and wars to end. However your comment is premature, also, you’re assuming goals that aren’t goals. 
 

I’ll be looking at results over time and not much else. Not temporary feelings. 
 

All the haters need to ask themselves now, what if anything would they consider a win. Write it down. Look at it in a couple years. There will be some and of course there won’t be because different goals. 
 

 

[james22]

3 hours ago, Sweet said:

Sacks is playing pop-psychologist for half of his post, stating things he cannot possibly know.

 

That's fair (though blame TIME Magazine).

 

I usually loath the psychoanalysis in these threads.

 

But I'm sympathetic how three years of war would change you and so this take doesn't seem impossible (assuming credibly sourced).

 

He’s psychologically committed.

 

Zelensky’s belief in ultimate victory over Russia has “hardened into a form that worries some of his advisors,” according to a report by TIME Magazine, which described Zelensky’s faith as “immovable, verging on the messianic.”

 

According to one of Zelensky’s aides, “He is delusional. We’re out of options. We’re not winning. But try telling him that.” Zelensky may be in too deep to see the situation objectively.

 

But sources are unreliable as well (aides might not recognize genius), so weigh it how you will.

[73 Reds]

3 hours ago, Parsad said:

 

Well so far MAGA has:

• Ended the war in Gaza...maybe
• Ended the war in Ukraine...maybe
• Brought down the price of eggs...nope
• Stock market is up...nope
• Economy is booming...nope
• Measles has been eradicated...was 15 years ago, but now is back
• Global allies are awed by Trump's negotiating skills...nope
• Epstein files show all of the non-Trump-related culprits...mostly Trump, Ivana, Ivanka
• US generosity is spreading across the world...nope
• Closest allies all love Trump...nope
• U.S. anthem is heralded all over the globe...nope
• U.S. diplomacy is at an all-time high...nope
• DOGE has saved a total of 0.05% of the U.S. budget over the next 4 years...yup!

Great start to the Trump era for the first 40 days!  Cheers!

Do you judge the performance of all the stocks you buy after only 40 days?  (No answer required). 

[alpha]

3 hours ago, Spekulatius said:

I don’t like Trump but he is not difficult to read really. I think it was a mistake for Zelenskyy to keep his regular pullover attire. It sounds petty but I think Trump doesn’t like it be sure because it ruins his photo shoot. Trump is all about appearance and he regards the Oval office sort of like a kings court.

 

Really? Trump sure doesn't seem to object when his boss comes into his office ignoring dress code and ruining his photops! I wonder why he isn't held to the same high standard? 

 

 

[John Hjorth]

Keir Starmer is now speaking to the press.

[Luke]

35 minutes ago, alpha said:

 

Really? Trump sure doesn't seem to object when his boss comes into his office ignoring dress code and ruining his photops! I wonder why he isn't held to the same high standard? 

 

 

Musk is not the highest official of this country while Selensky is.

[John Hjorth]

6 minutes ago, Luke said:

Musk is not the highest official of this country while Selensky is.

 

Luca [ @Luke ],

 

You obviously don't understand the concept of a dress code.

[flesh]

My best guess is that trump wanted a deal and to get recompense secured first. Once that’s done.. and not before.. he can figure out a way to provide security, he’ll have to say “here’s x security” to the public… it needs to seem weak/in putins favor. The non disclosed deal will be stronger. This allows Putin to save face and project a win. Putins ego won’t allow a deal to be done where he doesn’t look like the victor. This means everyone will think it’s a weak deal and hate on trump however the teeth will be shown by lack of future problems of the same sort. It’ll be shown nearer term in the form of weapons and or other countries militaries moving into post war Ukraine territories. Protections. 

The future undisclosed actual plan will cost usa money.. needs a deal first. Trump doesn’t and shouldn’t disclose all cards. The seemingly total openness and massive media involved day to day gives deflection/framing/cover for actual strategies in general. Creates a veneer of confusion. 
 

Lastly, I hate suits, they are costumes, if someone treats me differently without one that’s on them. It’s like the diamond for marriage nonsense or the 3 months pay for the ring nonsense. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 15 hours ago by flesh

[james22]

44 minutes ago, flesh said:

I hate suits, they are costumes, if someone treats me differently without one that’s on them.

 

Demonstrating inappropriate or insulting behavior, in whatever form, intended or not, has consequences.

 

Is this so hard to grasp?

 

 

[Xerxes]

Just saw these on DailyMail:

 

 

 

[flesh]

19 minutes ago, james22 said:

 

Demonstrating inappropriate or insulting behavior, in whatever form, intended or not, has consequences.

 

Is this so hard to grasp?

 

 

Ya I guess I’d wear a suit if everyone did and it was the president and in a country that expects it but I’d also be tolerant to a president with equal title whos standards are different and who’s been in a existential life threatening crisis for years. I certainly wouldn’t have been so shortsighted ans been the guy who couldn’t control his own disgust response and reflect on the matter when so much is at stake. 

[cubsfan]

31 minutes ago, flesh said:

Ya I guess I’d wear a suit if everyone did and it was the president and in a country that expects it but I’d also be tolerant to a president with equal title whos standards are different and who’s been in a existential life threatening crisis for years. I certainly wouldn’t have been so shortsighted ans been the guy who couldn’t control his own disgust response and reflect on the matter when so much is at stake. 

 

It's not a huge deal. But if you're really serious, it's does nothing but help you signal your seriousness.  I've been in court enough to know, I'll always wear a suit and be very respectful toward the judge. It's huge sign of respect. The adversary is not the judge or Trump - it's Putin or whoever is on the other side of the court.  A smart person knows you do everything you can to get the middleman or whoever is helping you negotiate - on your side.

Strategic mistake by Zelensky - although not a huge dea. Zelensky's ego got in the way.

Missed opportunity. 

[Stuart D]

https://x.com/zx_647/status/1895799038014099872

[james22]

 

44 minutes ago, flesh said:

Ya I guess I’d wear a suit if everyone did and it was the president and in a country that expects it . . .

 

And choosing not to do what is expected (Trump's aides reportedly told Zelensky to wear a suit) makes it only expected to taken as an insult.

 

[james22]

2 hours ago, flesh said:

Lastly, I hate suits, they are costumes . . .

 

OT:

 

Of course they are costumes. Costumes signal, and suits signal very positive things.

 

If you never wear a suit, you might experiment a little. You'll be shocked at how differently you are treated.

 

I dress casually in retirement after a career in suits, but had to dress for a formal dinner a while ago and I was quickly reminded of that.

 

And a well tailored suit is to women what lingerie is to men needs no explanation.

[cwericb]

13 minutes ago, james22 said:

 

 

And choosing not to do what is expected (Trump's aides reportedly told Zelensky to wear a suit) makes it only expected to taken as an insult.

 

 

What? "Trump's aides reportedly told Zelensky to wear a suit". 

 

Really? Trump's Aides had the audacity to tell the president of another country what he was supposed to wear? 

That is unbelievably rude and condescending. Do those people in the White House have no manners at all? I guess one should not be surprised, given who is in charge. But that seems beyond shocking.

[cubsfan]

14 minutes ago, cwericb said:

 

What? "Trump's aides reportedly told Zelensky to wear a suit". 

 

Really? Trump's Aides had the audacity to tell the president of another country what he was supposed to wear? 

That is unbelievably rude and condescending. Do those people in the White House have no manners at all? I guess one should not be surprised, given who is in charge. But that seems beyond shocking.

 

Zelensky is the one begging for help, not the United States. 

 

In the past, if I interviewed a candidate that I liked for our managment team, I generally gave them some information about my superior, who were generally very successful and a bit formal.

I remember one candidate that "dressed down" for the boss. It was a disaster and the boss

reminded me "We sell million dollar engagements - what's wrong with this guy?"

 

It's very clear that Zelensky doesn't think he needs to "sell himself" to the guy that can make him a hero.  Very, very poor judgement.

Edited 12 hours ago by cubsfan

[james22]

10 minutes ago, cwericb said:

 

What? "Trump's aides reportedly told Zelensky to wear a suit". 

 

Really? Trump's Aides had the audacity to tell the president of another country what he was supposed to wear? 

That is unbelievably rude and condescending. Do those people in the White House have no manners at all? I guess one should not be surprised, given who is in charge. But that seems beyond shocking.

 

You think it rude and condescending for your employer to expect you to dress for an interview?

 

To expect guests to dress for your wedding?

 

In any case, when you've the money, you set the rules. The onus is always on the supplicant.

 

[RichardGibbons]

At this point, it seems pretty clear that Zelensky "won" the negotiations with Trump.

Trump didn't get the minerals he wanted, looked weak and foolish, and clearly isn't someone who knows how to ink a deal.

Zelensky displayed strong leadership in the face of silly attacks, brought the free world onto his side, and is now getting resources from Europe. The democratic world looks to be coming together behind Ukraine.

 

It's actually hard to think of how that meeting could've realistically had a better outcome for Ukraine.

[RichardGibbons]

This seems to be how most of the world views the discussion.

[cubsfan]

11 minutes ago, RichardGibbons said:

At this point, it seems pretty clear that Zelensky "won" the negotiations with Trump.

Trump didn't get the minerals he wanted, looked weak and foolish, and clearly isn't someone who knows how to ink a deal.

Zelensky displayed strong leadership in the face of silly attacks, brought the free world onto his side, and is now getting resources from Europe. The democratic world looks to be coming together behind Ukraine.

 

It's actually hard to think of how that meeting could've realistically had a better outcome for Ukraine.

 

It's really wonderful to see Europe FINALLY step up and own this conflict.

They should have done it 2 years ago - but definitely better late then never.

 

Too bad it took Trump to get them to finally move:

 

 

 

[Sweet]

2 hours ago, Xerxes said:

Just saw these on DailyMail:

 

 

 

Excellent videos

[Parsad]

7 hours ago, cubsfan said:

Major big time fuck up by Zelensky as a negotiator. 

 

Verbally agree with the very party that can save you. Then, go around your sponsor and negotiate with people underneath him. You never, ever, ever do that in a negotiation UNLESS you are willing to blow up your own deal. 

 

Live and learn Zelensky - good luck getting back into the White House when you can't be trusted.

 

 

More: 

 

 

Trump off to the fastest start of any president in modern history, Dems are desperate to be relevant.

 

It’s a mark of their bad judgment that Zelensky is their new hero. He & they have zero chance of persuading tapped-out Americans that an open-ended commitment of their tax dollars and possibly sending troops to Ukraine is sensible.

 

Certainly Trump supporters didn’t vote for that, and the president himself campaigned on bringing the war to a fast end, not sending our army to fight Russians.

 

 

Cubs, if your country was being attacked every day by Putin, and then the U.S., Putin and a handful of others with no representative from your country meet privately to negotiate a peace settlement...wouldn't you be wary of any deal?

 

Zelenskyy said that his people would not support any agreement without security guarantees to Chris Murphy.  it's the same thing he was saying to Vance, when they lit him up.  How is that ungrateful, conniving or poor negotiating?  He's just trying to make sure that if he hands over his country's resources, he's getting actual peace with guarantees of support from the West if Putin breaks any agreement.  Cheers!