73 Reds Posted January 26 Posted January 26 41 minutes ago, flesh said: What's the cause of death for Alex Pretti? By weighting in %'s 1. Allowing unmitigated illegal immigration, including thousands(ten's?, 100's? of criminals) 2. Massive media push to protest repeated daily for month's? 3. Left wing media rarely if ever saying how and what the proper forms of safe protest are and often pushing for more aggressive forms of protest/using hyperbole? 4. Improperly trained/radicalized ice agents? 5. Trump/ice leaders poor leadership leading to more aggressive Ice behavior? 6. Trump not calling off ICE altogether and ending the program? 7. Left wing politicians in left wing states not cooperating with ICE and often actively opposing them in various ways? Counterfactual, how many ICE deaths per arrest in cooperating states. 8. Collateral damage, some people die when law enforcement of any kind do their job. It's a numbers game. Namely, if you have 100k arrests x people will die by cops/ICE The blame game only plays into people's predisposed narratives. He decided to be in the wrong place at the wrong time carrying the wrong piece of personal property. Sadly, just one week ago we celebrated MLK Day in the US but folks in Minnesota never got the message of peaceful protest.
dealraker Posted January 26 Posted January 26 26 minutes ago, 73 Reds said: The blame game only plays into people's predisposed narratives. He decided to be in the wrong place at the wrong time carrying the wrong piece of personal property. Sadly, just one week ago we celebrated MLK Day in the US but folks in Minnesota never got the message of peaceful protest. Yea, the guy was practicing the Republican heralded second amendment right and the Ice boys chanted, "This is our golden opportunity...let's put 11 rounds into the back of this mutha-fucka's head...let the fun begin."
73 Reds Posted January 26 Posted January 26 1 minute ago, dealraker said: Yea, the guy was practicing the Republican heralded second amendment right and the Ice boys chanted, "This is our golden opportunity...let's put 11 rounds into the back of this mutha-fucka's head...let the fun begin." Last I checked, the 2nd Amendment applied to everyone. But yeah, personal responsibility is hard for some, the same people who like to blame others.
Dalal.Holdings Posted January 26 Posted January 26 1 hour ago, flesh said: What's the cause of death for Alex Pretti? By weighting in %'s 1. Allowing unmitigated illegal immigration, including thousands(ten's?, 100's? of criminals) 2. Massive media push to protest repeated daily for month's? 3. Left wing media rarely if ever saying how and what the proper forms of safe protest are and often pushing for more aggressive forms of protest/using hyperbole? 4. Improperly trained/radicalized ice agents? 5. Trump/ice leaders poor leadership leading to more aggressive Ice behavior? 6. Trump not calling off ICE altogether and ending the program? 7. Left wing politicians in left wing states not cooperating with ICE and often actively opposing them in various ways? Counterfactual, how many ICE deaths per arrest in cooperating states. 8. Collateral damage, some people die when law enforcement of any kind do their job. It's a numbers game. Namely, if you have 100k arrests x people will die by cops/ICE The cause of death? 10 bullets from poorly trained, trigger happy ICE agents and an administration that enables/feeds chaos for their own ends. Everything else you wrote are terrible excuses. Some people can't use Occam's Razor and it shows.
Dalal.Holdings Posted January 26 Posted January 26 51 minutes ago, 73 Reds said: He decided to be in the wrong place at the wrong time carrying the wrong piece of personal property. Yes, apparently protesting and having a license to carry is "being in the wrong place at the wrong time with the wrong piece of personal property" to people who don't believe the 1st or 2nd amendment matter. Just kidding, I'm sure that you do think the 1st and 2nd amendment matter--just for the people you happen to agree with.
dealraker Posted January 26 Posted January 26 17 minutes ago, 73 Reds said: Last I checked, the 2nd Amendment applied to everyone. But yeah, personal responsibility is hard for some, the same people who like to blame others. That's precisely what you are doing Reds. No offense man, but when are you going to realize what you are writing? You are blaming the guy pinned the ground getting pumped full of lead. Blame others? That's you, all of you.
cubsfan Posted January 26 Posted January 26 2 minutes ago, dealraker said: That's precisely what you are doing Reds. No offense man, but when are you going to realize what you are writing? You are blaming the guy pinned the ground getting pumped full of lead. Blame others? That's you, all of you. Why would he? After all, most of you sickos on this board think nothing of the killing of a defenseless Ashli Babbitt by an out of control Capitol Police officer. I heard all day how her killing was 100% justified since "she put congress in danger". You guys are sick - and will justify any harm to Trump supporters.
flesh Posted January 26 Posted January 26 (edited) 28 minutes ago, Dalal.Holdings said: The cause of death? 10 bullets from poorly trained, trigger happy ICE agents and an administration that enables/feeds chaos for their own ends. Everything else you wrote are terrible excuses. Some people can't use Occam's Razor and it shows. For you 4 and 5 total 100% weighting. Steel manning your position if I understand it correctly. Occam’s razor gives you total certitude. Others would have 100% certitude if they were as competent brandishing Occam’s razor as you are. Others make excuses because the final cause was bullets in the back therefore this is the reason for death. Edited January 26 by flesh
73 Reds Posted January 26 Posted January 26 24 minutes ago, dealraker said: That's precisely what you are doing Reds. No offense man, but when are you going to realize what you are writing? You are blaming the guy pinned the ground getting pumped full of lead. Blame others? That's you, all of you. Regardless of your motive, would you walk into a crowd of people intentionally trying to impede ICE from doing their jobs, while carrying a loaded weapon? Its a matter of personal responsibility. Not blame.
Mephistopheles Posted January 26 Posted January 26 Occam's razor here is that - the guy had his hand up, he was maced and then fell/tackled to the ground. One of the goons yelled gun when he grabbed the gun, another one of the goons thought that by yelling "gun" they were under attack. So they opened fire. They didn't set out to kill him, but they are poorly trained, poorly incentivized (apparent total immunity, high cash bonuses and quotas for arrests), and just a bunch of trigger happy thugs aka former oath keepers and mentally retarded. I hope the state unleashes hell upon them
Sweet Posted January 26 Posted January 26 6 minutes ago, Mephistopheles said: Occam's razor here is that - the guy had his hand up, he was maced and then fell/tackled to the ground. One of the goons yelled gun when he grabbed the gun, another one of the goons thought that by yelling "gun" they were under attack. So they opened fire. They didn't set out to kill him Yep.
Dalal.Holdings Posted January 26 Posted January 26 15 minutes ago, 73 Reds said: Regardless of your motive, would you walk into a crowd of people intentionally trying to impede ICE from doing their jobs, while carrying a loaded weapon? Its a matter of personal responsibility. Not blame. He impeded an ICE agent who was pushing and attacking a woman. The personal responsibility is clear. He did the noble thing and ICE put a bunch of bullets in him. He worked as an ICU nurse taking care of vets, pretty responsible buy all around. Compare that with J6 guys or average MAGA guy you see protesting with rifles out. Doesn't matter how you see it. That's how the American people see it and you see Trump realizes now by trying to back off & send Homan in. Trump took the issue he was winning on (immigration and fraud in MN) and turned it into a big L for him. Quite the feat.
Dalal.Holdings Posted January 26 Posted January 26 (edited) 27 minutes ago, flesh said: For you 4 and 5 total 100% weighting. Steel manning your position if I understand it correctly. Occam’s razor gives you total certitude. Others would have 100% certitude if they were as competent brandishing Occam’s razor as you are. Others make excuses because the final cause was bullets in the back therefore this is the reason for death. It must be hard to invest if this is how clouded one's reasoning is. Doesn't matter if you think I'm wrong, you are seeing the political blowback now. Even Trump is responding to that. Doesn't matter what the loonies think. At the end of the day, elections in the USA are won by winning the normies, not the loonies. The normies gave Trump a win in 2024 because they didn't like Biden's open border. He closed the border and then went nuts with ICE. He could have just closed the border and deported violent criminals, but decided to also go after nannies and 5 year olds. He decided to label anyone protesting ICE as "terrorists". He decided to send ICE to Minnesota when all he had to do was use the FBI to investigate the fraud happening there--an easy win. Now the normies will turn against him. Alex Pretti's murder and Noem/Miller response is intolerable for the majority of reasonable Americans. Even Republicans in Congress demanding investigations. Edited January 26 by Dalal.Holdings
cubsfan Posted January 26 Posted January 26 1 minute ago, Dalal.Holdings said: He impeded an ICE agent who was pushing and attacking a woman. The personal responsibility is clear. He did the noble thing and ICE put a bunch of bullets in him. He worked as an ICU nurse taking care of vets, pretty responsible buy all around. Compare that with J6 guys or average MAGA guy you see protesting with rifles out. Doesn't matter how you see it. That's how the American people see it and you see Trump realizes now by trying to back off & send Homan in. Trump took the issue he was winning on (immigration and fraud in MN) and turned it into a big L for him. Quite the feat. He was foolish & reckless to interfere. His death is so tragic. He broke every rule in the book when it comes to "best practices" of conceal carry. When reckless, foolish armed people think law enforcement is game to be harassed and played - reckless people get themselves killed.
73 Reds Posted January 26 Posted January 26 2 minutes ago, Dalal.Holdings said: He impeded an ICE agent who was pushing and attacking a woman. The personal responsibility is clear. He did the noble thing and ICE put a bunch of bullets in him. He worked as an ICU nurse taking care of vets, pretty responsible buy all around. Compare that with J6 guys or average MAGA guy you see protesting with rifles out. Doesn't matter how you see it. That's how the American people see it and you see Trump realizes now by trying to back off & send Homan in. Trump took the issue he was winning on (immigration and fraud in MN) and turned it into a big L for him. Quite the feat. Its not about Trump or elections. If you want to make it a larger issue, why do people feel emboldened to impede ICE and law enforcement? Do you believe this tragedy would have happened if people were not encouraged, even paid to engage in such activity? Could it have something to do with the fact that "protestors" were permitted to invade college campuses and disrupt life for many while authorities simply stood by, watched and supported them?
cubsfan Posted January 26 Posted January 26 3 minutes ago, Dalal.Holdings said: It must be hard to invest if this is how clouded one's reasoning is. Doesn't matter, you are seeing the political blowback now. Even Trump is responding to that. Doesn't matter what the loonies think. At the end of the day, elections in the USA are won by winning the normies, not the loonies. As @73 Reds spelled out so well a day ago - there is an enormous "silent majority" that disagrees with you. We are not out on the streets causing trouble like little children and cowards trying to intimidate and obstruct law enforcement. We are not anarchists and losers. We are patriots. Never in my life have I EVER even talked back to law enforcement, let alone impede law enforcement. Why?? Because I am not a reckless fool. That silent majority will determine the future of the country - as they did in 2016 and 2024 - when all the loudmouth anarchists tore this country apart.
Dalal.Holdings Posted January 26 Posted January 26 Just now, 73 Reds said: Its not about Trump or elections. If you want to make it a larger issue, why do people feel emboldened to impede ICE and law enforcement? Do you believe this tragedy would have happened if people were not encouraged, even paid to engage in such activity? Could it have something to do with the fact that "protestors" were permitted to invade college campuses and disrupt life for many while authorities simply stood by, watched and supported them? Is this really that hard for you to understand? Why did Americans feel emboldened to protest lockdowns? Why did the colonies feel emboldened to dump tea in the harbor and protest a reasonable tax by the crown? Americans have a long and proud tradition of rebelling against authority that they deem to be oppressive--since 1776. No one is being paid. They don't like seeing 5 year olds being taken away and Renee Good or Alex Pretti being killed. The protests are happening organically. And now with the Pretti situation, the protests against ICE will only grow stronger.
dealraker Posted January 26 Posted January 26 17 minutes ago, 73 Reds said: Regardless of your motive, would you walk into a crowd of people intentionally trying to impede ICE from doing their jobs, while carrying a loaded weapon? Its a matter of personal responsibility. Not blame. Reds imagine just you and me holding this guy down, we are kind of angry about him scrambling around. How threatened do you feel? How threatened do I feel? How many times do we need to shoot him? OK, now think if there are 5-7 of us holding him to the ground? How threatened do you feel? How threatened do I feel? Does that affect your decision of whether or not to shoot? Think about joining the crowd and shooting the guy scrambling around. These guys are like a mountain lion tasting human flesh. They'll come back for some more of that shit.
73 Reds Posted January 26 Posted January 26 Just now, Dalal.Holdings said: Is this really that hard for you to understand? Why did Americans feel emboldened to protest lockdowns? Why did the colonies feel emboldened to dump tea in the harbor and protest a reasonable tax by the crown? Americans have a long and proud tradition of rebelling against authority that they deem to be oppressive--since 1776. No one is being paid. They don't like seeing 5 year olds being taken away and Renee Good or Alex Pretti being killed. The protests are happening organically. And now with the Pretti situation, the protests against ICE will only grow stronger. Your definition of protest is far from mine. And as I said earlier, MLK's.
73 Reds Posted January 26 Posted January 26 (edited) 2 minutes ago, dealraker said: Reds imagine just you and me holding this guy down, we are kind of angry about him scrambling around. How threatened do you feel? How threatened do I feel? How many times do we need to shoot him? OK, now think if there are 5-7 of us holding him to the ground? How threatened do you feel? How threatened do I feel? Does that affect your decision of whether or not to shoot? Think about joining the crowd and shooting the guy scrambling around. These guys are like a mountain lion tasting human flesh. They'll come back for some more of that shit. You're missing the point - completely. Maybe intentionally. But if I were ICE, I'd be scared shitless and angry as hell. Its not an excuse but a plausible explanation. Edited January 26 by 73 Reds missed line
Dalal.Holdings Posted January 26 Posted January 26 1 minute ago, cubsfan said: As @73 Reds spelled out so well a day ago - there is an enormous "silent majority" that disagrees with you. We are not out on the streets causing trouble like little children and cowards trying to intimidate and obstruct law enforcement. We are not anarchists and losers. We are patriots. Never in my life have I EVER even talked back to law enforcement, let alone impede law enforcement. Why?? Because I am not a reckless fool. That silent majority will determine the future of the country - as they did in 2016 and 2024 - when all the loudmouth anarchists tore this country apart. You can believe the silent majority is with you all you want, but Republicans who are up for reelection disagree with you. The polls clearly show that and most Republicans know that too. The reason why Trump is trying to cool this now is he realizes that. Even said he had a good call with Tim Walz (lol). He could have won real big in MN with the fraud, but overplayed his hand. Classic Trump.
Dalal.Holdings Posted January 26 Posted January 26 1 minute ago, 73 Reds said: Your definition of protest is far from mine. And as I said earlier, MLK's. Yes, if only if those colonists protested peacefully and followed the laws of the Crown!
Luke Posted January 26 Posted January 26 (edited) 1 hour ago, 73 Reds said: The blame game only plays into people's predisposed narratives. He decided to be in the wrong place at the wrong time carrying the wrong piece of personal property. Sadly, just one week ago we celebrated MLK Day in the US but folks in Minnesota never got the message of peaceful protest. 1 hour ago, 73 Reds said: Last I checked, the 2nd Amendment applied to everyone. But yeah, personal responsibility is hard for some, the same people who like to blame others. 53 minutes ago, cubsfan said: Why would he? After all, most of you sickos on this board think nothing of the killing of a defenseless Ashli Babbitt by an out of control Capitol Police officer. I heard all day how her killing was 100% justified since "she put congress in danger". You guys are sick - and will justify any harm to Trump supporters. 32 minutes ago, 73 Reds said: Regardless of your motive, would you walk into a crowd of people intentionally trying to impede ICE from doing their jobs, while carrying a loaded weapon? Its a matter of personal responsibility. Not blame. 30 minutes ago, Mephistopheles said: Occam's razor here is that - the guy had his hand up, he was maced and then fell/tackled to the ground. One of the goons yelled gun when he grabbed the gun, another one of the goons thought that by yelling "gun" they were under attack. So they opened fire. They didn't set out to kill him, but they are poorly trained, poorly incentivized (apparent total immunity, high cash bonuses and quotas for arrests), and just a bunch of trigger happy thugs aka former oath keepers and mentally retarded. I hope the state unleashes hell upon them 11 minutes ago, cubsfan said: He was foolish & reckless to interfere. His death is so tragic. He broke every rule in the book when it comes to "best practices" of conceal carry. When reckless, foolish armed people think law enforcement is game to be harassed and played - reckless people get themselves killed. 6 minutes ago, cubsfan said: As @73 Reds spelled out so well a day ago - there is an enormous "silent majority" that disagrees with you. We are not out on the streets causing trouble like little children and cowards trying to intimidate and obstruct law enforcement. We are not anarchists and losers. We are patriots. Never in my life have I EVER even talked back to law enforcement, let alone impede law enforcement. Why?? Because I am not a reckless fool. That silent majority will determine the future of the country - as they did in 2016 and 2024 - when all the loudmouth anarchists tore this country apart. 5 minutes ago, dealraker said: Reds imagine just you and me holding this guy down, we are kind of angry about him scrambling around. How threatened do you feel? How threatened do I feel? How many times do we need to shoot him? OK, now think if there are 5-7 of us holding him to the ground? How threatened do you feel? How threatened do I feel? Does that affect your decision of whether or not to shoot? Think about joining the crowd and shooting the guy scrambling around. These guys are like a mountain lion tasting human flesh. They'll come back for some more of that shit. 4 minutes ago, 73 Reds said: You're missing the point - completely. 3 minutes ago, Dalal.Holdings said: You can believe the silent majority is with you all you want, but Republicans who are up for reelection disagree with you. The polls clearly show that and most Republicans know that too. The reason why Trump is trying to cool this now is he realizes that. Even said he had a good call with Tim Walz (lol). He could have won real big in MN with the fraud, but overplayed his hand. Classic Trump. Edited January 26 by Luke
73 Reds Posted January 26 Posted January 26 1 minute ago, Dalal.Holdings said: Yes, if only if those colonists protested peacefully and followed the laws of the Crown! That's a good argument for a couple centuries ago. Most of us have evolved since then.
Dalal.Holdings Posted January 26 Posted January 26 (edited) 1 minute ago, 73 Reds said: That's a good argument for a couple centuries ago. Most of us have evolved since then. This weekend's events directly counter that statement. I know--you think everyone who is out protesting ICE is obstructing a government procedure. You just believe what Noem and Miller tell you to believe. Pretti was a "terrorist assassin" according to them. Most Americans don't buy their crap though. And now they have irreparably damaged their credibility. Edited January 26 by Dalal.Holdings
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