Political Posts

[Milu]

As a European I find the debate in this thread quite fascinating. Very heated opinions on both sides. I think it mainly boils down to the western world falling into the assumption that America would always be the great protector and because of this getting themselves into weaker and weaker positions. This is all now being exposed in both Europe and Canada, both of which have benefited massively in being ‘looked after’ by Uncle Sam. Even though I am happy for America’s help they are their own country and they don’t ‘owe’ any other country anything. They have the right to decide to focus on looking after their own citizens while pulling back on taking care of rest of world. This is even more true when they are running into more and more debt. I find it a quite entitled attitude that most of us Europeans and Canadian have to be honest. All of this will probably be good for the world in 5-10 years as countries start to stand in their own two feet and not blindly rely on a bigger brother. 

[Sweet]

2 hours ago, Gregmal said:

Jesus Christ this is pure comedic gold and exhibit A why warmongers keep finding their way into public office.

 

When we meddle and interfere with others, it’s because it’s our divine right since we re inherently better than everyone else and educating them about the superiority of “our way” is “the right thing to do”. When they return the favor, we need to be tough; stand tall! and take action….

 

Because you know, not everyone likes their governments propaganda. After keeping our yaps shut and smiling while we re fed fake covid numbers, fake crime stats, and fake jobs numbers for 4 years lmfao….incredible!

According to Greg, funding an agency that provides tools to access the internet where it is restricted is ‘warmongering’.

 

What a stupid thing to say.

Yes, all that bs about covid, and Russia collusion etc etc, one the reason why we can debunk it is… precisely because we have an open internet not controlled by government.  Your own examples prove why it’s important.
 

Can they do that so easily in other places around the world - no.  There they don’t have the ability to easily debunk government propaganda.  Another self owning argument.

 

 

 

 

Edited March 22, 2025 by Sweet

[Ulti]

On 3/20/2025 at 8:27 AM, 73 Reds said:

r.  To what degree these policies are successful remains to be seen.  

I think, and I could be wrong, that tariffs and their economic impact should be looked at thru a domestic lense.. which i think the current administration is doing… How do we get our debt/debt service to a manageable level.. And keep the  tax cuts getting ready to expire…And we have less than 2 years to do it ( put the mechanism in place before midterms).. Tariffs are just one component .. Reducing SS benefits as well as Medicare/ Medicaid is another…

Barrons mentions a 3rd….( synopsis from another blog)

 

“Pg 28, INCOME. The House Budget Committee is considering many proposals to raise federal revenues to extend TCJA 2017 and eliminating the tax-exempt status of MUNIS is among them. Although a full retroactive repeal of muni tax-exemption is unlikely, the muni market has reacted negatively (MUB -0.5% YTD vs AGG +2.6%). A concern is that budgets are approved in the last hours of deadlines and bad things may slip in intentionally or unintentionally. Anyway, a full repeal will be very expensive for state and local governments, muni investors and general public (due to pass-through of costs). Of course, a floor to muni selloff would be when muni yields and comparable taxable yields equalize. There may also be various scenarios in between the status quo and full repeal of muni tax exemption.”

 

I think with states rights will come with more state responsibility ie.. State EMA’s instead of FEMA just to name one… The fed and this administration will put as much of the expenses onto state , local governments and individuals in order to reduce the deficit going forward.. kinda similar to the Europeans/ Canadians need to pik up the slack ; federal  gov. has been taken advantage of for too long  by the states local government private sector ( universities) and individuals.

 

The big question is where the expenditures are going… If N Fer. the historian is right( he’s awesome ) , then a military expansion of epic proportions  might be in the works to combat the 4 horsemen ( Russ China NK and Iran).
But who knows ( just green tea leaf reading on my part haha)

[james22]

You might consider what the founding fathers thought about foreign entanglements, Sweet.

 

Our role is to be an example, no more.

[Sweet]

4 hours ago, cubsfan said:

 

Isn't MAGA wonderful?

 

Get used to it boys,,,,it's going to be around a while. Stop your whining already. 

 

It makes you look weak.

The only person whinning is you.

 

I’m describing something, you aren’t.

 

You’re just being pissy.

[cubsfan]

48 minutes ago, Milu said:

As a European I find the debate in this thread quite fascinating. Very heated opinions on both sides. I think it mainly boils down to the western world falling into the assumption that America would always be the great protector and because of this getting themselves into weaker and weaker positions. This is all now being exposed in both Europe and Canada, both of which have benefited massively in being ‘looked after’ by Uncle Sam. Even though I am happy for America’s help they are their own country and they don’t ‘owe’ any other country anything. They have the right to decide to focus on looking after their own citizens while pulling back on taking care of rest of world. This is even more true when they are running into more and more debt. I find it a quite entitled attitude that most of us Europeans and Canadian have to be honest. All of this will probably be good for the world in 5-10 years as countries start to stand in their own two feet and not blindly rely on a bigger brother. 

 

The best post in this entire thread.

[Sweet]

28 minutes ago, james22 said:

You might consider what the founding fathers thought about foreign entanglements, Sweet.

 

Our role is to be an example, no more.

The war of 1812 and the rapid expansion well beyond what the boundaries of 13 colonies suggests something else.

 

I don’t even know how it’s relevant here, we are talking about providing tools to access the internet.  It doesn’t have to promote anything.

 

Edited March 22, 2025 by Sweet

[Gregmal]

Once upon a time it was Christianity instead of Democracy that was the convenient excuse for getting involved in the affairs of other civilized and self governing regions….we have all the answers and no one else’s way of life is comparable and as such, we are entitled to mind their business for them. In fact, they should thank us! 
 

Please…..the hypocrisy is staggering but not outdone by the straight face with which we believe it is our mission to be hypocrites. We meddle-saving the world and enlightening the oppressed. Others do 1/10th what we do, evil dictator run regimes that need sanctions and condemnation…again, good fuckin lord. 

[Sweet]

Just now, Gregmal said:

Once upon a time it was Christianity instead of Democracy that was the convenient excuse for getting involved in the affairs of other civilized and self governing regions….we have all the answers and no one else’s way of life is comparable and as such, we are entitled to mind their business for them. In fact, they should thank us! 
 

Please…..the hypocrisy is staggering but not outdone by the straight face with which we believe it is our mission to be hypocrites. We meddle-saving the world and enlightening the oppressed. Others do 1/10th what we do, evil dictator run regimes that need sanctions and condemnation…again, good fuckin lord. 

Greg, it’s providing access to the internet for goodness sake.

Nobody is invading anyone else to convert the heathens.

 

It doesn’t have to promote anything, it’s like giving someone a library card - read what you want.

 

The suggestions of meddling and warmongering are not credible.

[james22]

41 minutes ago, Sweet said:

Can they do that so easily in other places around the world - no.  There they don’t have the ability to easily debunk government propaganda.

 

Why not? After all our aid?

[Sweet]

1 minute ago, james22 said:

 

Why not? After all our aid?

Don’t know what you mean.

[Gregmal]

10 minutes ago, Sweet said:

Greg, it’s providing access to the internet for goodness sake

They all openly state the purpose of this is to undermine a foreign government. But, sure…and oh yeah, the CIA was only in Ukraine in 2014 to show support for democracy!
 

Meanwhile, in the same breathe we sit here and say “it’s only the internet”, these losers will tell Google and Facebook and Twitter they need to censor things they don’t like because the internet can be dangerous and used to manipulate people apparently! So….drumroll, the hypocrisy is staggering and either way, it’s a foreign country, the US can fuck off with its….whatever we wanna label it.
 

 

 

 

The Open Technology Fund (OTF), launched in 2012, was intended to allow people who live under repressive regimes to circumvent restrictions and access the internet.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2025/03/20/trump-ends-internet-access-china-iran-otf/

 

 

Edited March 22, 2025 by Gregmal

[Sweet]

4 minutes ago, Gregmal said:

They all openly state the purpose of this is to undermine a foreign government. But, sure…and oh yeah, the CIA was only in Ukraine in 2014 to show support for democracy!
 

Meanwhile, in the same breathe we sit here and say “it’s only the internet”, these losers will tell Google and Facebook and Twitter they need to censor things they don’t like because the internet can be damgerous and used to manipulate people apparently! So….drumroll, the hypocrisy is staggering and either way, it’s a foreign country, the US can fuck off with its….whatever we wanna label it.
 

 

 

 

The Open Technology Fund (OTF), launched in 2012, was intended to allow people who live under repressive regimes to circumvent restrictions and access the internet.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2025/03/20/trump-ends-internet-access-china-iran-otf/

 

 

Hypocrisy from who?  I’m not the one saying that.

 

Yes to access the internet, and no matter how much you tweak the formula to try to get the answer you want, it doesn’t come out as ‘warmongering’.

 

Edit - thinking about it.  Aren’t you being the hypocrite?  Condemning on one hand people advocating for censorship, but also condemning a group trying to help people skirt censorship?  

 

Edited March 22, 2025 by Sweet

[Gregmal]

Huh? I’m being pretty clear in saying the US needs to fuck off and stop getting involved in stuff outside its borders. It is also hugely hypocritical complaining about foreign nations “meddling” when we are the Babe Ruth of meddling. 

[Sweet]

1 minute ago, Gregmal said:

Huh? I’m being pretty clear in saying the US needs to fuck off and stop getting involved in stuff outside its borders. It is also hugely hypocritical complaining about foreign nations “meddling” when we are the Babe Ruth of meddling. 

You support tariffs on other countries.  Right?

 

[John Hjorth]

New York Times - Opinion - Thomas L. Friedman [March 18^th 2025] : I Don’t Believe a Single Word Trump and Putin Say About Ukraine.

 

I have posted a few times about specifically this point of view, in relation to the dynamics between these two men. The real point in this opinion has also crossed my mind :

 

Quote

Ever since President Trump returned to office and began trying to make good on his boast about ending the Ukraine war in days, thanks to his relationship with Russian President Vladimir Putin, I’ve had this gnawing concern that something was lost in translation in the bromance between Vlad and Don.

 

When the interpreter tells Trump that Putin says he’s ready to do anything for “peace” in Ukraine, I’m pretty sure what Putin really said was he’s ready to do anything for a “piece” of Ukraine.

 

You know those homophones — they can really get you in a lot of trouble if you’re not listening carefully. Or if you’re only hearing what you want to hear.

 

The Times reported that in his two-and-a-half-hour phone call with Trump on Tuesday, Putin agreed to halt strikes on Ukrainian energy infrastructure, according to the Kremlin, but Putin made clear that he would not agree to the general 30-day cease-fire that the United States and Ukraine had agreed upon and proposed to Russia.

 

Here, it's Saturday afternoon, spring has arrived, and the sun is shining 'gerade' from a clear blue sky, so I'm temped to ask the question :

 

Was the above quoted New York Times opinion funny? -Please choose among one of the following options :

 

a.  Yes,

b.  Yes,

c.  I don't know.

[SharperDingaan]

The internet is just another communicaton tool, the same as mass production of print was back in the day. Control what gets distributed and you have a propaganda tool by which to control your masses. When it goes your way ... it's the greatest thing since sliced bread ... when it doesn't, it's subversive and we have to shut it down!  Nobody likes competitors.

 

Simple to cut off access to social media platforms, take the megaphone away and the influence collapses. Of course .... if use of those platforms is keeping you in power ... it's a different proposition.

 

An opportunity.

 

SD

 

Edited March 22, 2025 by SharperDingaan

[Gregmal]

13 minutes ago, Sweet said:

You support tariffs on other countries.  Right?

 

I’ve said before I think tariffs are dumb.

[Sweet]

2 minutes ago, Gregmal said:

I’ve said before I think tariffs are dumb.

So where is the line for you?

Greenland?  Panama Canal?  World War II?

 

I think the libertarian’s view on foreign policy is a bit like communist’s view on economics.  Both believe the world exists in a way it doesn’t.

[Gregmal]

5 minutes ago, Sweet said:

So where is the line for you?

Greenland?  Panama Canal?  World War II?

 

I think the libertarian’s view on foreign policy is a bit like communist’s view on economics.  Both believe the world exists in a way it doesn’t.

What line? Greenland I have no opinion on, I don’t care. It’s people should be able to do what they want. Panama Canal we built, not sure why we gave it away…but whatever. WW2 clearly got to a point where picking sides and getting involved was necessary from a survival perspective. Totally different than all this fake shit and media nonsense about how “Putins gonna take over the world if we don’t fight a proxy war thru Ukraine” or how we constantly need to be “sending messages” to China/Xi or whatever. 

[cubsfan]

John - not sure who is saying what here without more context?

 

Is this Friedman indicating that Trump doesn't understand what Putin is asking for?

 

Regardless - it will surely be cleared up as the negotiations progress.

 

 

[cubsfan]

49 minutes ago, Gregmal said:

Huh? I’m being pretty clear in saying the US needs to fuck off and stop getting involved in stuff outside its borders. It is also hugely hypocritical complaining about foreign nations “meddling” when we are the Babe Ruth of meddling. 

 

If there is one issue I've come around on - it's this. And it took a long time. It's way to easy to get caught up in the "we need to be involved in solving everything".  As a nation, we have more than enough on our plate and need to stop throwing stones and take care of our own first.

[John Hjorth]

Mike [ @cubsfan ],

 

It's about working professionally on top political level among Putin and Trump.

 

It's obvious for everybody, that there is doubt about what actually was agreed on between the two men under their telephone conversation.

 

That's because a bullet point transcipt - in both languages - of what they agreed on wasen't produced, and released, which should be done by the teams of the men, the result and outcome here  ending up being general non-sense worthless, useless comments from the two men about 'positive talks'.

 

That is also why the warefare activities have continued unchanged.

 

Putin is not giving in on anything really on behalf of Russia, before he is under severe threats of getting really hurt. Untill then, it's for him just the usual KGB approach, saying really nothing, being impossible to get a real and firm hold on, like trying to grab a slimy eel. Untill that point in time, he [Putin] will likely continue to do whatever he might decide to do, constantly bluffing his way through it all.

 

In short, Trump was really getting played here by the most experienced negotiator here.

 

It'll be interesting to observe what happens, when Trump realizes that Putin here has a modus operandi similar to his own regarding dealing with the truth.

 

- - - o 0 o - - -

 

I don't trust any of these two men - at all. I woulden't trade a second car with any of them.

 

I'm expressing myself this way because I'm a Dane from what is called the Sothern part of Denmark, which consists of Jutland, Funen and Sealand and surrounding minor or small islands :

 

 

But if I was a Dane by being Greenlandic, I would express it this way : "I woulden't let any of these men sleep with my wife, if they were visiting.' [  ]

 

Explainer : Earlier, when the original Greenlandic population was nomads, the culture was characterized by a great degree of hospitality, meaning, among other things, if you had a guest visiting over night, you did not only provide furs to lay on and to cover the guest to stay warm, you also offered the guest to 'lend' your wife to the guest to sleep with, to keep the guest warm under the visit! 

[73 Reds]

16 minutes ago, John Hjorth said:

Mike [ @cubsfan ],

 

It's about working professionally on top political level among Putin and Trump.

 

It's obvious for everybody, that there is doubt about what actually was agreed on between the two men under their telephone conversation.

 

That's because a bullet point transcipt - in both languages - of what they agreed on wasen't produced, and released, which should be done by the teams of the men, the result and outcome here  ending up being general non-sense worthless, useless comments from the two men about 'positive talks'.

 

That is also why the warefare activities have continued unchanged.

 

Putin is not giving in on anything really on behalf of Russia, before he is under severe threats of getting really hurt. Untill then, it's for him just the usual KGB approach, saying really nothing, being impossible to get a real and firm hold on, like trying to grab a slimy eel. Untill that point in time, he [Putin] will likely continue to do whatever he might decide to do, constantly bluffing his way through it all.

 

In short, Trump was really getting played here by the most experienced negotiator here.

 

It'll be interesting to observe what happens, when Trump realizes that Putin here has a modus operandi similar to his own regarding dealing with the truth.

 

- - - o 0 o - - -

 

I don't trust any of these two men - at all. I woulden't trade a second car with any of them.

 

I'm expressing myself this way because I'm a Dane from what is called the Sothern part of Denmark, which consists of Jutland, Funen and Sealand and surrounding minor or small islands :

 

 

But if I was a Dane by being Greenlandic, I would express it this way : "I woulden't let any of these men sleep with my wife, if they were visiting.' [  ]

 

Explainer : Earlier, when the original Greenlandic population was nomads, the culture was characterized by a great degree of hospitality, meaning, among other things, if you had a guest visiting over night, you did not only provide furs to lay on and to cover the guest to stay warm, you also offered the guest to 'lend' your wife to the guest to sleep with, to keep the guest warm under the visit! 

LOL, if a guest visit resulted in offspring did the guest have to pay child support?

[james22]