Political Posts

[John Hjorth]

Personally, I appreciate your posts in this topic very much, @Pelagic ! 

 

I hope you woulden't mind to share your nationality, thank you in advance, meaning also : If you mind, that would naturally also be OK, and would be respected.

[Sweet]

Some of the things being said are wild and it’s sad that they are so easily believed.

 

Edited February 19, 2025 by Sweet

[John Hjorth]

Somebody seem to have forgotten how and what this started with.

 

Mike [ @cubsfan ] & Greg [ @Gregmal ],

 

Du you remember? :

 

United Nations - 8974th Meeting (Night) [February 23^rd 2022] : Russian Federation Announces ‘Special Military Operation’ in Ukraine as Security Council Meets in Eleventh-Hour Effort to Avoid Full-Scale Conflict

 

Subtitle :

 

‘Give Peace a Chance’, Secretary-General Stresses as Political Affairs Chief Calls for Dialogue ‘Even at this Late Hour’

 

Quote

... LINDA THOMAS-GREENFIELD (United States) said her country, along with its allies and partners, will continue to respond to the actions of the Russian Federation with clarity and conviction.  Warning that a full-scale invasion by the Russian Federation into Ukraine is imminent, she said Moscow is currently closing airspace, moving troops into Donbas and forces into combat positions.  This is a perilous moment, she affirmed, and the United States is here for one reason:  to ask the Russian Federation to stop, return to its borders, send its troops and planes back to their barracks and hangars, and instead send its diplomats to the negotiating table.  Last week, the United States informed the Council what it expected to see unfold.  It said that Moscow would fabricate a pretext for an attack — and in fact, there have been numerous false flag events staged along the lines of contact in Donbas.  The United States said that Moscow would theatrically convene emergency meetings at the highest level of Government.  This was seen on 21 February, with a State televised meeting held by President Putin, an orchestrated moment when Moscow decided to recognize as “independent states” sovereign territory of Ukraine that has been controlled by Russian proxies since 2014. ...

 

- - - o 0 o - - -

 

ABC News [February 24^th 2022] : Russian President Putin announces military operation in Ukraine

 

 

Edited February 19, 2025 by John Hjorth

[cubsfan]

How what started?  The war? 

 

Or how it needs to end? 

 

Do you have a point?

[Parsad]

3 hours ago, cubsfan said:

@Parsad You are absolutely correct about Putin.

 

I think you obviously know that Zelensky declared martial law 3 years ago, cancelled all elections, cancelled the free press - and that billions in aid have been stolen.  I was a fan of Zelensky for quite some time - but he is a dictator, no doubt.

 

Even in the good old USA, with all the wars we have - I've never seen a Presidential election cancelled and dictatorship installed.

 

I've always wanted Ukraine to win this war - the question now - is how will/can they win?

 

 

 

 

 

Cubs, I'm not favoring Zelensky.  I think he's done some things that aren't right as well.  But I'm for Ukraine...they didn't start this thing.  And you can't negotiate Ukraine's fate without Ukraine's representation...if not Zelensky, then someone else or a group of non-partisan leaders.  Cheers!

[Parsad]

3 hours ago, Gregmal said:

Maybe I missed what Dinar wrote, and perhaps its warranted, but now we're at 2 guys from one side, and 0 from the other.......

 

Dinar wrote some stuff on the killing of Afghans and how it was necessary...not only incorrect, but quite tasteless!  Just don't need that shit on here.  Cheers!

[Gregmal]

17 minutes ago, Parsad said:

 

Dinar wrote some stuff on the killing of Afghans and how it was necessary...not only incorrect, but quite tasteless!  Just don't need that shit on here.  Cheers!

Didn't know that but he's a quality contributor. 

 

Anyway, as I said when this stupid thread started, its a sham war, a waste of time, a nothing burger for my investments and only an opportunity if people overreact and think this is a big deal. Lo and behold however long later, we've pissed away all this money, people got their rocks off talking war theory, sharing cherry picking clips of "Russia getting pwned!!!!" and playing Stratego....and virtually nothing else relevant emerged. Oh yea, and we wasted a shit ton of taxpayer resources catering to propaganda....basically a low budget HBO drama....so Im done here. 

[Spekulatius]

It’s clear that Trump doesn’t give a damn about an Ukraine , he just wants this over with and is annoyed about the resistance from Zelenski , hence the vitriol .

 

What I don’t get is why he just doesn’t cut the aid and leave it at that, since he has no vested interest in the outcome and also won’t back any solution but leave this to others. He really has no business to negotiate anything at this point and should leave it alone.

[Parsad]

39 minutes ago, Spekulatius said:

It’s clear that Trump doesn’t give a damn about an Ukraine , he just wants this over with and is annoyed about the resistance from Zelenski , hence the vitriol .

 

What I don’t get is why he just doesn’t cut the aid and leave it at that, since he has no vested interest in the outcome and also won’t back any solution but leave this to others. He really has no business to negotiate anything at this point and should leave it alone.

 

Because he's a malicious bastard!  He doesn't just want to embarrass those that oppose or offend him, he wants to wipe them out and relegate them to irrelevancy...look at Mike Pence!  Who needs enemies, when you have a friend like Trump!  Cheers!  

[cubsfan]

Of course he doesn't want anything to do with this war and all the useless loss of life.

He wants it over. Good for him attempting to drive a settlement over what is now just a killing field.

 

It's Europe's war, and they should have forced a conclusion one way or another long ago.

 

But as @changegonnacome said - 27 countries can't agree on anything, so now it's left to the

USA to try and conclude it.

[Xerxes]

2 hours ago, Spekulatius said:

why he just doesn’t cut the aid and leave it at that, since he has no vested interest in the outcome and also won’t back any solution but leave this to others. He really has no business to negotiate anything at this point and should leave it alone.

Behind all the PR theatrics, Trump understands the leverage vis a vis aide (with Kremlin), and doesn’t want the nightmare of 2021 Kabul repeat.  

if there will be a catastrophic collapse on the Ukrainian front it has to be set up as Kiev’ own mishap w/ proper narrative, that “he told them what to do for the war to end and they just wouldn’t do it”

 

washing my hands 

[Charlie]

8 hours ago, Spekulatius said:

It’s clear that Trump doesn’t give a damn about an Ukraine , he just wants this over with and is annoyed about the resistance from Zelenski , hence the vitriol .

 

What I don’t get is why he just doesn’t cut the aid and leave it at that, since he has no vested interest in the outcome and also won’t back any solution but leave this to others. He really has no business to negotiate anything at this point and should leave it alone.

If Trump can end the war and bring lasting peace, that would be a huge victory for him.

 

That is one of the biggest advantages of Trump, that he can better communicate with Putin.

Edited February 20, 2025 by Charlie

[Paarslaars]

15 minutes ago, Charlie said:

If Trump can end the war and bring lasting peace, that would be a huge victory for him.

 

That is one of the biggest advantages of Trump that he can better communicate with Putin.

It will never be lasting peace, everyone knows that. Putin took Crimea and then there was peace, now he takes parts of Ukraine and there is peace, next up he'll take even more... he won't stop. This is why the EU keeps siding with Ukraine on this, they know if they don't stop him in Ukraine, he will invade the EU at one point.

 

7 hours ago, Spekulatius said:

What I don’t get is why he just doesn’t cut the aid and leave it at that, since he has no vested interest in the outcome and also won’t back any solution but leave this to others. He really has no business to negotiate anything at this point and should leave it alone.

 

He wants the war to end, cutting aid without getting an agreement on peace from Ukraine/Europe is just going to make Ukraine have more casualties or Europe send more aid. That won't accomplish anything... though a nice cost saving initiative I guess.

Edited February 20, 2025 by Paarslaars

[Charlie]

53 minutes ago, Paarslaars said:

It will never be lasting peace, everyone knows that. Putin took Crimea and then there was peace, now he takes parts of Ukraine and there is peace, next up he'll take even more... he won't stop. This is why the EU keeps siding with Ukraine on this, they know if they don't stop him in Ukraine, he will invade the EU at one point.

One should aim for the best and prepare for the worst. Peace and Trade brings Prosperity.

The future is uncertain.  

Edited February 20, 2025 by Charlie

[Sweet]

8 hours ago, Gregmal said:

its a sham war,

What does that even mean?

[Gamecock-YT]

8 hours ago, Spekulatius said:

What I don’t get is why he just doesn’t cut the aid and leave it at that, since he has no vested interest in the outcome and also won’t back any solution but leave this to others. He really has no business to negotiate anything at this point and should leave it alone.

 

 

To the man with a hammer.....

 

It's sad what is happening to the Ukrainians. They've fought with one arm behind their back from the start with the limits the west have put on them in regards to not targeting Russian assets in Russia, higher tiers of lethal equipment provided only when things were going badly, and now as the conflict has became mired in a stalemate (thanks to the 2 former actions) the rug is being pulled from underneath them.

 

If we do get some type of ceasefire, no doubt Russia will do what they've done in previous episode of USSR expansion and flood the new territory with Russian nationals at the expense of the Ukrainians. A state sponsored 21st century carpetbagger. 

 

The whole push on "elections" couldn't be more of an opportunity at putting a Russian puppet in place via a campaign of disinformation and corruption. Or becoming a new east/west divide the likes of which we haven't seen since the cold war. And this most likely puts Western troops overtly in to Ukraine in a peacekeeper role, which has been a red line for all NATO nations since the conflict started. 

 

Given the push towards right wing nationalism we see sweeping the globe (I think the AfD results in the upcoming German election are going to be shocking to some), I don't think Europe has the capital, political or economic, to keep supporting Ukraine by themselves. But they will have to push back at some point, if not in Ukraine then most likely in the Baltics or Southeast Europe.

 

 

[Sweet]

1 hour ago, Gamecock-YT said:

The whole push on "elections" couldn't be more of an opportunity at putting a Russian puppet in place via a campaign of disinformation and corruption.

 

The UK didn't have an election for 10 years as a result of World War II, elections were put off until after the war because the war was about survival.  If we had lost that war our democracy might have died with it.

 

Trump has a statue of Winston Churchill in the oval office, by his own login Winston Churchill is also a 'dictator' for postponing elections.

 

Ukraine is fighting for survival, law and order comes first... it's a conservative mantra.

[Charlie]

2 hours ago, Gamecock-YT said:

Given the push towards right wing nationalism we see sweeping the globe (I think the AfD results in the upcoming German election are going to be shocking to some)

There is practically zero chance of big suprise in the german election.

 

The election polls are the same for months:

 

https://dawum.de/Bundestag/

 

The winner CDU/CSU is middle/right. No other political party wants something to do 

with the AFD. Voters really listen to what politicians say.

[John Hjorth]

7 minutes ago, Charlie said:

There is practically zero chance of big suprise in the german election.

 

The election polls are the same for months:

 

https://dawum.de/Bundestag/

 

The winner CDU/CSU is middle/right. No other political party wants something to do with the AFD. Voters really listen to what politicians say.

 

Thank you for sharing, Charlie [ @Charlie ],

 

Great overview site. Yes, and as if there isen't enough else to be concerned about these days in Europe.

[Spekulatius]

2 minutes ago, Charlie said:

There is practically zero chance of big suprise in the german election.

 

The election polls are the same for months:

 

https://dawum.de/Bundestag/

 

The winner CDU/CSU is middle/right. No other political party wants something to do 

with the AFD. Voters really listen to what politicians say.

Also, the CDU has adopted some AFD positions on emigration and also likely a more independent path from the USA (due to recent events). If Merz gets a strong enough mandate, then he should be able to do something. If not, then Germany is going to remain a rudderless ship just like under the led coalition.

 

Before the German election is settled, I don’t think anything will really happen.

 

There is a lot of leverage the Europeans have and means to do something. For example the majority of the Russian assets that have been frozen are within the EU (Belgium, Euroclear) and the UK. Thats probably about $200B that the EU could turn against Russia to increase defense, aide Ukraine. it does require a legal framework but where there is will there is a way.

 

Its the will that has been lacking not the means to do something.

[Xerxes]

1 hour ago, Sweet said:

 

The UK didn't have an election for 10 years as a result of World War II, elections were put off until after the war because the war was about survival.  If we had lost that war our democracy might have died with it.

I heard that 10 years comment on TV as well. Is that really true ?

 

Churchill fell from power before close of the second war. In fact with FDR passing, the only constant in Allied leadership was Stalin in 1945. 

 

And Churchill was elected after the war began. He was the First Lord of Admiralty in Neville Chamberlain cabinet in 1939. So not sure folks say 10 years. 
 

On Zelenskyy, I think whether they hold election or not that is their internal affairs. Our aide (or lack thereof) should not be contingent on that and it is not. This is just noise out of White House. 
 

We didn’t have problems supplying Iraq with chemical weapons, satellite intelligence, all kinds of aids in the 1980s. Iraq was ruled by totalitarian regime. 
 

Would it help Ukraine, if Zelensky takes the throne and declares himself king of All Ukrainians. US has no issue sending aid to Saudi Arabia. Another totalitarian regime that we don’t think of it in that sense because it happens to be a monarchy. 
 

 

[Sweet]

1 minute ago, Xerxes said:

I heard that 10 years comment on TV as well. Is that really true ?

 

Churchill fell from power before close of the second war. In fact with FDR passing, the only constant in Allied leadership was Stalin in 1945. 

 

And Churchill was elected after the war began. He was the First Lord of Admiralty in Neville Chamberlain cabinet in 1939. So not sure folks say 10 years. 
 

On Zelenskyy, I think whether they hold election or not that is their internal affairs. Our aide (or lack thereof) should not be contingent on that and it is not. This is just noise out of White House. 
 

We didn’t have problems supplying Iraq with chemical weapons, satellite intelligence, all kinds of aids in the 1980s. Iraq was ruled by totalitarian regime. 
 

Would it help Ukraine, if Zelensky takes the throne and declares himself king of All Ukrainians. US has no issue sending aid to Saudi Arabia. Another totalitarian regime that we don’t think of it in that sense because it happens to be a monarchy. 
 

 

 

Your response is based on a misreading of my comment Xerxes, my comment said, "The UK didn't have an election for 10 years" - not Churchill.

 

Of course, Churchill was the PM during the time an election would otherwise have been held, normally every 5 years in the UK.

 

The dictator comment about Ukraine and Zelensky could easily have been applied to the UK and Churchill in the early 1940s.

 

So yeh, Winston Churchill, the dictator.

 

 

[Xerxes]

Thanks. That was detail I was missing. 
in my mind there was a change in government in 1940 and again in 1945.
 

The subtlety of general election vs internal party change in leadership didn’t register with me. 

[Sweet]

7 minutes ago, Xerxes said:

Thanks. That was detail I was missing. 
in my mind there was a change in government in 1940 and again in 1945.
 

The subtlety of general election vs internal party change in leadership didn’t register with me. 

I think a coalition government formed in 1940 in response to the war, I don’t think there was even a leader of the opposition.  These norms tend to go out the window in wartime.

[cubsfan]

7 hours ago, Charlie said:

If Trump can end the war and bring lasting peace, that would be a huge victory for him.

 

That is one of the biggest advantages of Trump, that he can better communicate with Putin.

 

Too common sense for many to understand.