Coronavirus

[orthopa]

 

Do the demographics, land mass size, population, population density etc too.

 

NYC has a population density of 38,424 per square kilometer

NZ has a population density of 15 people per square kilometer.

 

Complete waste of time even looking at this comparison. Why dont you post a twitter link on the data from Antarctica to really hammer the point home.

 

 

Hold on there just a minute. You make accusations of cherry picking the data then you do exactly that. Instead of comparing population density of the U.S., you use NYC. And you do that because the comparison between the two countries doesn’t support your argument.

NZ population density: 15 people /sqK

US population density: 36 people /sqK  NOT 38,424 / sqK

 

Pretty dishonest trying to compare the country to NYC. How about sticking to the facts for a change.

 

Your right, my fault. The US is extremely homogeneous and no way the population density of NYC contributed in a negative fashion to death counts, GDP loss, and the spread of the virus through out the country. Thanks!!!

 

This is a hilarious interaction.

 

Orthopa: "I'll spin some numbers while simultaneously accusing someone else of spinning!"

<Gregmal predictably validates the approach by accusing some nebulous left of spin>

Orthopa: "Haha!  I'm brilliant! Nobody realizes what I did!"

cwericb: "Umm, dude, you know you're basically comparing a country to a city? Can you at least pretend to honestly analyse the situation?"

Orthopa: "Darn....  Umm, can't admit fault, gotta go on the offence!  Well, um, New York City has lots of people which is bad in a pandemic, and that's completely the point that I was trying to make in my other post! And you're just stupid for not seeing it, and deserve lots of abuse!"

 

Bravo. The thread is now more entertaining than informative.

 

"NYC was so botched due to failed leadership as evidenced by huge number of cases"...but at the same time:

"the only reason NZ has low cases because it has such low pop density!" (don't tell these folks about the densities in TX/FL vs NY/NJ...)

 

"NY covid deaths are so high and show how badly libs failed" ...but at the same time:

"the NY covid deaths were not real, but faked on the death certificates"

 

Dude. Making two contradictory wrong claims at the same time is a sign of truly stable genius. Trump is proud of his children.

 

Jurgis, question for you and other Europeans who constantly shit on the US.  You live in the US right? Why? If this place is such a shithole why dont you head on back to Eastern Europe? Why are you here exactly, work, love, forced?

 

 

[orthopa]

Basic stuff doesn't exist in the US, if they really wanted to improve democracy. Like, election day should be a national holiday. Otherwise, it's a lot harder for poor people who have to work than for wealthy people with more job security and flexible vacation time/etc.

 

Don't get me started on gerrymandering..

 

But anyway, the mail-in stuff was directly related to COVID. The rest is less on-topic, though just as important.

 

Curious -- are you American?

 

Good question. 3/4 of the respondents in this thread live in Canada and are infatuated by a political system they have no input on and constantly shit on the US.  Their voice doesn't count Thank god. They cant get enough of it though. They will say its because they hate Trump or cant believe how stupid we are but they really know that the US butters their bread so are eager participants in the discussion. I think a great majority are still butt hurt because Trump had the balls to go after NAFTA or wouldn't share masks! Either way they just come to this thread and bitch about a country that they highly benefit from.  If you took out all the posts in the thread of paranoid scared Canadians bitching about Americans it would be probably 15 pages long. Eh?

[orthopa]

GA's school reopening is the key test bed and if the new daily charts continue to trend down by the end of August, that validates my thesis.

 

Maybe, or maybe not. The president is basically saying, "Hey, do less testing" and there is less testing.

 

So, are tests declining because there is less demand for tests because of fewer symptomatic people? Or are tests declining because lives don't matter and it's politically convenient for the number of tests to decline? I'm not sure what the answer is, or if it's even possible to determine the answer.  (e.g. I think it would be hard to detect a bunch of "patriotic" Trump-supporting doctors to stop ordering tests.)

 

Maybe its because 30-40% of people are asymptomatic and the virus is so widespread its a complete waste of time? How useless is a testing protocol that constantly misses asymptomatic people because they have no indication/reason to get tested?

 

Explain to me exactly what all the testing in the US has done? How many lives do you estimate have been saved and by what mechanism? It cant be contract tracing, because that shit aint happening.

 

Dick your better then this we went over how useless all this testing was back in March/April and your still perplexed!!!

[Dalal.Holdings]

 

Do the demographics, land mass size, population, population density etc too.

 

NYC has a population density of 38,424 per square kilometer

NZ has a population density of 15 people per square kilometer.

 

Complete waste of time even looking at this comparison. Why dont you post a twitter link on the data from Antarctica to really hammer the point home.

 

 

Hold on there just a minute. You make accusations of cherry picking the data then you do exactly that. Instead of comparing population density of the U.S., you use NYC. And you do that because the comparison between the two countries doesn’t support your argument.

NZ population density: 15 people /sqK

US population density: 36 people /sqK  NOT 38,424 / sqK

 

Pretty dishonest trying to compare the country to NYC. How about sticking to the facts for a change.

 

Your right, my fault. The US is extremely homogeneous and no way the population density of NYC contributed in a negative fashion to death counts, GDP loss, and the spread of the virus through out the country. Thanks!!!

 

This is a hilarious interaction.

 

Orthopa: "I'll spin some numbers while simultaneously accusing someone else of spinning!"

<Gregmal predictably validates the approach by accusing some nebulous left of spin>

Orthopa: "Haha!  I'm brilliant! Nobody realizes what I did!"

cwericb: "Umm, dude, you know you're basically comparing a country to a city? Can you at least pretend to honestly analyse the situation?"

Orthopa: "Darn....  Umm, can't admit fault, gotta go on the offence!  Well, um, New York City has lots of people which is bad in a pandemic, and that's completely the point that I was trying to make in my other post! And you're just stupid for not seeing it, and deserve lots of abuse!"

 

Bravo. The thread is now more entertaining than informative.

 

"NYC was so botched due to failed leadership as evidenced by huge number of cases"...but at the same time:

"the only reason NZ has low cases because it has such low pop density!" (don't tell these folks about the densities in TX/FL vs NY/NJ...)

 

"NY covid deaths are so high and show how badly libs failed" ...but at the same time:

"the NY covid deaths were not real, but faked on the death certificates"

 

Dude. Making two contradictory wrong claims at the same time is a sign of truly stable genius. Trump is proud of his children.

 

Jurgis, question for you and other Europeans who constantly shit on the US.  You live in the US right? Why? If this place is such a shithole why dont you head on back to Eastern Europe? Why are you here exactly, work, love, forced?

 

Criticizing the President is "shitting on America"? Wonder why so many R's stuck around in the U.S. from 2008 to 2016 then...

 

Oh, I forgot the Golden Rule:

 

D in the WH: Criticizing POTUS = "patriotic"

 

R in the WH: Criticizing POTUS = "un-American"

[jschembs]

Basic stuff doesn't exist in the US, if they really wanted to improve democracy. Like, election day should be a national holiday. Otherwise, it's a lot harder for poor people who have to work than for wealthy people with more job security and flexible vacation time/etc.

 

Don't get me started on gerrymandering..

 

But anyway, the mail-in stuff was directly related to COVID. The rest is less on-topic, though just as important.

 

Curious -- are you American?

 

Good question. 3/4 of the respondents in this thread live in Canada and are infatuated by a political system they have no input on and constantly shit on the US.  Their voice doesn't count Thank god. They cant get enough of it though. They will say its because they hate Trump or cant believe how stupid we are but they really know that the US butters their bread so are eager participants in the discussion. I think a great majority are still butt hurt because Trump had the balls to go after NAFTA or wouldn't share masks! Either way they just come to this thread and bitch about a country that they highly benefit from.  If you took out all the posts in the thread of paranoid scared Canadians bitching about Americans it would be probably 15 pages long. Eh?

 

I'm an American, and you're a clown.

[RichardGibbons]

Maybe its because 30-40% of people are asymptomatic and the virus is so widespread its a complete waste of time? How useless is a testing protocol that constantly misses asymptomatic people because they have no indication/reason to get tested?

 

Explain to me exactly what all the testing in the US has done? How many lives do you estimate have been saved and by what mechanism? It cant be contract tracing, because that shit aint happening.

 

Dick your better then this we went over how useless all this testing was back in March/April and your still perplexed!!!

 

To summarize:

 

March/April

Orthopa: "Contact tracing is a waste of time! Everyone's already infected." (There are single digit deaths in America.)

New Zealand/Taiwan/S.Korea/British Columbia: Do lots of testing and contact tracing

America: Minimal tests

Trump: "There's no problem (and if there were, it would be a Blue State problem, so that's actually a good thing!)"

 

August

New Zealand/Taiwan/S.Korea/British Columbia: The virus has been mostly contained. A tiny number of people have died.

America: Millions infected. 200,000 people die.

Trump: "We should do less testing. That's what I diagnose to be the main problem here."

Orthopa: "There's too many people infected! Contact tracing is impossible, because while almost every other country has used it successfully, America hasn't! And Canadians are paranoid scared bitches! And asymptomatic people can pass on the virus! So there's no reason to test."

RichardGibbons: "Should I say that infectious asymptomatic people might suggest one should do more testing, not less? … … Nah."

Orthopa: "Dick."

[Dalal.Holdings]

Maybe its because 30-40% of people are asymptomatic and the virus is so widespread its a complete waste of time? How useless is a testing protocol that constantly misses asymptomatic people because they have no indication/reason to get tested?

 

Explain to me exactly what all the testing in the US has done? How many lives do you estimate have been saved and by what mechanism? It cant be contract tracing, because that shit aint happening.

 

Dick your better then this we went over how useless all this testing was back in March/April and your still perplexed!!!

 

To summarize:

 

March/April

Orthopa: "Contact tracing is a waste of time! Everyone's already infected." (There are single digit deaths in America.)

New Zealand/Taiwan/S.Korea/British Columbia: Do lots of testing and contact tracing

America: Minimal tests

Trump: "There's no problem (and if there were, it would be a Blue State problem, so that's actually a good thing!)"

 

August

New Zealand/Taiwan/S.Korea/British Columbia: The virus has been mostly contained. A tiny number of people have died.

America: Millions infected. 200,000 people die.

Trump: "We should do less testing. That's what I diagnose to be the main problem here."

Orthopa: "There's too many people infected! Contact tracing is impossible, because while almost every other country has used it successfully, America hasn't! And Canadians are paranoid scared bitches! And asymptomatic people can pass on the virus! So there's no reason to test."

RichardGibbons: "Should I say that infectious asymptomatic people might suggest one should do more testing, not less? … … Nah."

Orthopa: "Dick."

 

Please stop holding orthopa accountable for all the claims he’s made on here that were patently false! Where’s his savior Gregmal to come to the rescue and claim instead the opposite—that he was right all along???

 

Up is down.

 

2 + 2 = 7.

[KCLarkin]

cant believe how stupid we are

 

Classic. Xenophobic rant when called out for using misleading stats.

 

[Castanza]

cant believe how stupid we are

 

Classic. Xenophobic rant when called out for using misleading stats.

 

Didn’t you claim protests had no substantial influence on spread? 30m+ people protesting and rioting in the streets for over two months....

[Jurgis]

Jurgis, question for you and other Europeans who constantly shit on the US. 

 

I shit on US?

 

Oh no, brother, you have completely misunderstood.

 

I am here in the hope that the glorious rays of wisdom of The Greatest President Trumph and his disciples could delighten us all. A single word of this genius and the country will stand still in amazement and awe as you surely do. How could I miss the opportunity to be present in such momentous times and places and hear from such devoted followers of the Most Beautiful Leader?

 

All Hail El Presidente!

[Viking]

Basic stuff doesn't exist in the US, if they really wanted to improve democracy. Like, election day should be a national holiday. Otherwise, it's a lot harder for poor people who have to work than for wealthy people with more job security and flexible vacation time/etc.

 

Don't get me started on gerrymandering..

 

But anyway, the mail-in stuff was directly related to COVID. The rest is less on-topic, though just as important.

 

Curious -- are you American?

 

Good question. 3/4 of the respondents in this thread live in Canada and are infatuated by a political system they have no input on and constantly shit on the US.  Their voice doesn't count Thank god. They cant get enough of it though. They will say its because they hate Trump or cant believe how stupid we are but they really know that the US butters their bread so are eager participants in the discussion. I think a great majority are still butt hurt because Trump had the balls to go after NAFTA or wouldn't share masks! Either way they just come to this thread and bitch about a country that they highly benefit from.  If you took out all the posts in the thread of paranoid scared Canadians bitching about Americans it would be probably 15 pages long. Eh?

 

I think Trump is a disgusting person. When i say this i am not ‘shitting on the US’.

 

Just like when i criticize Trudeau when he messes up. I am not ‘shitting on Canada’.

 

I am very happy to have the US as a neighbour.

[Gregmal]

Theres "good people on both sides" lol. Viking and some others have been reasonable and valuable here. I dont think Canadians in general have it out for America. There is again, cultural differences, and there is also Trump. He's very divisive and I dont think its a Canadians hate America thing as much as it is the fact that Trump has basically gone after every country we associate with in an attempt to squeeze out a few schekels in favor of the USA. Its bound to piss people off. There is also probably a little bit of little brother syndrome as well. I'm still waiting for all the lockdown countries who now supposedly "think less of the US" bc of covid to keep having flare ups...while we get on with our business because we let the thing run its course.

 

Of course theres also the folks who continue to shift narrative. Dalal is always right about everything! He predicted more COVID cases and death will come tomorrow and by golly, I think he may be right. Of course when he's wrong, the evidence quickly disappears or gets modified. I definitely doubt the doctor claim. At best, psychiatrist. I wouldn't even give him dentist. At worst he's an academic with a PHD who demands the title...we all know about those..

[Liberty]

Basic stuff doesn't exist in the US, if they really wanted to improve democracy. Like, election day should be a national holiday. Otherwise, it's a lot harder for poor people who have to work than for wealthy people with more job security and flexible vacation time/etc.

 

Don't get me started on gerrymandering..

 

But anyway, the mail-in stuff was directly related to COVID. The rest is less on-topic, though just as important.

 

Curious -- are you American?

 

No. Why?

 

I’m also not a filmmaker, but know s bad fun when I see one. Not a CEO, but I have opinions on companies. Haven’t fought in WW2, but am interested in it. I also have lots of opinions about lots of other countries, like Russia and Brazil and Finland and France and the UK.

 

Meanwhile: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2020/08/13/trump-requests-mail-ballot-florida-primary-despite-rhetoric/3371605001/

[Cigarbutt]

-On the management of tests as a useful resource and the intent of letting the disease run its course towards herd immunity.

 

The strategy of producing an ever increasing amount of testing lagging behind spread is indeed questionable. If acquiring natural herd immunity is the goal, testing should be kept to a minimum. BTW, the positivity rate looks like it's finally coming down which finally points to the end of this wave given the actual situation (combination of 'social' (imposed or self-induced) measures and present level of herd immunity). The strategy is like when (as an ER doc), you 'miss' an infection and let the disease run its course for 24-48h towards septic shock (microbe spreading throughout the body system with the risk of multi-organ failure) and start antibiotics late. By bypassing the application of timely intervention, attempts to compensate and to catch up by giving more antibiotics for longer while exposing potential mortality and morbidity does not represent the best use of resources.

 

The following link explores the area between the "this is the flu" crowd and the "we're all going to die" crowd". The UK has recently produced an interesting population report showing the heterogeneous levels of exposure across their territory. It points to the possibility that natural herd immunity, on a relative basis, has not been reached.

https://www.technologyreview.com/2020/08/11/1006366/immunity-slowing-down-coronavirus-parts-us/

i love and admire America and keep looking for exceptionalism. The photo included at the top of the article (taken beside the Animal Kingdom's Tree of Life) reveals the bipolar nature of exceptionalism. Laissez-faire and individual sacrifice for the greater good do not reconcile very well. But it can be done and even mixed with the secret sauce, somehow.

 

[Dalal.Holdings]

Jurgis, question for you and other Europeans who constantly shit on the US. 

 

I shit on US?

 

Oh no, brother, you have completely misunderstood.

 

I am here in the hope that the glorious rays of wisdom of The Greatest President Trumph and his disciples could delighten us all. A single word of this genius and the country will stand still in amazement and awe as you surely do. How could I miss the opportunity to be present in such momentous times and places and hear from such devoted followers of the Most Beautiful Leader?

 

All Hail El Presidente!

 

Atta boy! You’ve finally seen the light like the evangelicals!

 

All hail Saint Donald!

[Liberty]

Basic stuff doesn't exist in the US, if they really wanted to improve democracy. Like, election day should be a national holiday. Otherwise, it's a lot harder for poor people who have to work than for wealthy people with more job security and flexible vacation time/etc.

 

Don't get me started on gerrymandering..

 

But anyway, the mail-in stuff was directly related to COVID. The rest is less on-topic, though just as important.

 

 

Jesus Christ, making election day a national holiday would be a disaster.  There is a reason why Canada used to close the beer parlours on election days, and that was to encourage the working class to actually get out and vote.  Just ensure that people have 4 consecutive hours available to vote during the polling hours, just like what we do in Canada.  Those who are interested will come out to vote, and you can't do much about those who are not interested.

 

 

SJ

 

This wins the most paternalistic comment on the forum.

 

Lots of countries do it and it's fine. Or you could just have it on the weekend, like many countries do.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Election_day

 

[uS] voter turnout peaked in the 19th century, from the 1840s to the 1890s. At that time, Americans were granted a day off from work, and celebrations and public gatherings were frequently arranged

 

Every vote is supposed to count equally, but if you make it much harder to vote for some people than others on purpose, you're violating the spirit of the whole thing.

[RichardGibbons]

I am very happy to have the US as a neighbour.

 

Yeah, "delighted" would be how I'd describe it. Attached to a country that until the last few years has had strong democratic values, a belief in free speech and "innocent until proven guilty", and an eagerness to trade for everyone's benefit?  Sign me up!

 

If I could disconnect Canada from North America and move it anywhere else on the globe, I wouldn't.  (Well, maybe in the Pacific Ocean, to the west of America, still attached to the continent, just to get some better weather....  8))

[orthopa]

Jurgis, question for you and other Europeans who constantly shit on the US. 

 

I shit on US?

 

Oh no, brother, you have completely misunderstood.

 

I am here in the hope that the glorious rays of wisdom of The Greatest President Trumph and his disciples could delighten us all. A single word of this genius and the country will stand still in amazement and awe as you surely do. How could I miss the opportunity to be present in such momentous times and places and hear from such devoted followers of the Most Beautiful Leader?

 

All Hail El Presidente!

 

I can understand why you didnt answer the question, dont worry. It takes a special type of person to move to a country, benefit from it then go anonymously online and piss up the leg of such country. Its great you dont like Trump and all but it cant be that bad. You didnt leave yet.

[orthopa]

cant believe how stupid we are

 

Classic. Xenophobic rant when called out for using misleading stats.

 

Nearly every contribution on this board from Canadian members has been xenophobic. Where have you been?

[orthopa]

Maybe its because 30-40% of people are asymptomatic and the virus is so widespread its a complete waste of time? How useless is a testing protocol that constantly misses asymptomatic people because they have no indication/reason to get tested?

 

Explain to me exactly what all the testing in the US has done? How many lives do you estimate have been saved and by what mechanism? It cant be contract tracing, because that shit aint happening.

 

Dick your better then this we went over how useless all this testing was back in March/April and your still perplexed!!!

 

To summarize:

 

March/April

Orthopa: "Contact tracing is a waste of time! Everyone's already infected." (There are single digit deaths in America.)

New Zealand/Taiwan/S.Korea/British Columbia: Do lots of testing and contact tracing

America: Minimal tests

Trump: "There's no problem (and if there were, it would be a Blue State problem, so that's actually a good thing!)"

 

August

New Zealand/Taiwan/S.Korea/British Columbia: The virus has been mostly contained. A tiny number of people have died.

America: Millions infected. 200,000 people die.

Trump: "We should do less testing. That's what I diagnose to be the main problem here."

Orthopa: "There's too many people infected! Contact tracing is impossible, because while almost every other country has used it successfully, America hasn't! And Canadians are paranoid scared bitches! And asymptomatic people can pass on the virus! So there's no reason to test."

RichardGibbons: "Should I say that infectious asymptomatic people might suggest one should do more testing, not less? … … Nah."

Orthopa: "Dick."

 

Please stop holding orthopa accountable for all the claims he’s made on here that were patently false! Where’s his savior Gregmal to come to the rescue and claim instead the opposite—that he was right all along???

 

Up is down.

 

2 + 2 = 7.

 

You could do the right thing and hold yourself accountable and admit your a charlatan but I dont even think you have time to come up for air off of Taleb.

[Gregmal]

Taleb was sooo last week. He/she/they have apparently learned about "false equivalency" recently and now EVERYTHING is apparently an example of false equivalency.

[orthopa]

Maybe its because 30-40% of people are asymptomatic and the virus is so widespread its a complete waste of time? How useless is a testing protocol that constantly misses asymptomatic people because they have no indication/reason to get tested?

 

Explain to me exactly what all the testing in the US has done? How many lives do you estimate have been saved and by what mechanism? It cant be contract tracing, because that shit aint happening.

 

Dick your better then this we went over how useless all this testing was back in March/April and your still perplexed!!!

 

To summarize:

 

March/April

Orthopa: "Contact tracing is a waste of time! Everyone's already infected." (There are single digit deaths in America.)

New Zealand/Taiwan/S.Korea/British Columbia: Do lots of testing and contact tracing

America: Minimal tests

Trump: "There's no problem (and if there were, it would be a Blue State problem, so that's actually a good thing!)"

 

August

New Zealand/Taiwan/S.Korea/British Columbia: The virus has been mostly contained. A tiny number of people have died.

America: Millions infected. 200,000 people die.

Trump: "We should do less testing. That's what I diagnose to be the main problem here."

Orthopa: "There's too many people infected! Contact tracing is impossible, because while almost every other country has used it successfully, America hasn't! And Canadians are paranoid scared bitches! And asymptomatic people can pass on the virus! So there's no reason to test."

RichardGibbons: "Should I say that infectious asymptomatic people might suggest one should do more testing, not less? … … Nah."

Orthopa: "Dick."

 

Your the one still confused and asking dumb questions Dick, not me.

[KCLarkin]

Nearly every contribution on this board from Canadian members has been xenophobic. Where have you been?

 

I am saying: Why don't we look at what worked in New Zealand, Iceland, South Korea, Vietnam, China, Taiwan, Canada, Germany? And your response is to post b.s. stats comparing the population density of a major city to an entire country.

 

Jurgis isn't Canadian and you attack him because he doesn't conform to your narrow view of America. 54% of Americans disapprove of Trump and especially his approach to Covid. Jurgis' views are more representative of "real America" than yours.

[Liberty]

Looks like Sweden's GDP numbers aren't better than neighbours:

 

 

Sweden Q2 GDP -8.6%, Denmark -7.4%, Finland -3.2%

 

Of course there are many variables, but still, it's a data point that doesn't help support the approach.

[Jurgis]

Jurgis, question for you and other Europeans who constantly shit on the US. 

 

I shit on US?

 

Oh no, brother, you have completely misunderstood.

 

I am here in the hope that the glorious rays of wisdom of The Greatest President Trumph and his disciples could delighten us all. A single word of this genius and the country will stand still in amazement and awe as you surely do. How could I miss the opportunity to be present in such momentous times and places and hear from such devoted followers of the Most Beautiful Leader?

 

All Hail El Presidente!

 

I can understand why you didnt answer the question.

 

I actually answered the question.

 

But don't worry. I realize that you don't want to acknowledge a brother in public forum. We'll exchange the secret handshake and a kiss when we meet at the rally. Don't be a stranger. MAGA forever!