Coronavirus

[StubbleJumper]

 

Atrocious.

 

 

I'm not sure that I quite understand the fixation on having "correct" and up to date statistics.  What would governments in the US do differently if they had "good" statistics resulting from more prevalent testing? 

 

So, suppose that there was more testing being done of people who sought medical attention for respiratory disorders and it came back that there were 1,000 positive Covid-19 cases.  If that were true, how many cases would there be that had not sought medical attention because the symptoms were not so severe?  Perhaps it would be 1,000 more that wouldn't show up in the official statistics?  And then what would the US government do with those numbers? 

 

Look, either this virus can be controlled and we can put the genie back in the bottle, or it cannot be controlled and the genie is on the loose.  If you are in the camp that this thing has already spread so much that the world has lost control of it, then "good" statistics don't strike me as too useful.  If you are not going to impose mandatory quarantines and if you are not going to suspend international travel, what are the remaining levers that governments can pull and how are better statistics actually useful?

 

I guess that I'm in the camp that the genie is out of the bottle and that it's time to focus on managing a situation which is no longer preventable.  But, maybe I'm alone in that camp?

 

 

SJ

[Gregmal]

Well, for one, thats just one of the minuscule differences between America and China. Chinese say, "sit your ass down, for the good of the country, we are handling this, how we see fit, if you dont like it, tough". In America, we over analysis the fuck out of every single little data point and demand things like total number of tests administered just to further perpetuate headlines and conspiracy theories. As we already saw, is it really in anyone but the medias interest to peddle fear and chaos? As we just saw last week, way too many folks watching too much Walking Dead.

 

Um...  I for one would like to know how the virus is spreading (or not), for my own and my family's health, if for no other reason.  How is this controversial?

 

Its not controversial. There are other website that tracks this stuff and plenty of information on cases being updated regularly. There is a difference between that, and say purposely peddling propaganda and fear mongering for no reason other than clicks or hatred of the president. One is useful, the other, serves no purpose. As I pointed out earlier, several of the big left media outlets have entirely reconfigured their websites to play in to these things.

 

How does the "total tested" column have anything to do with your family's safety lol? If you think its an issue, take precaution. If you dont, do whatever floats your boat. Heck, they could test 50% of the population and tomorrow its meaningless because of spread and transmission. The "coverup" part is whats laughable, and you can clearly see the agenda if you spend 3 minutes looking around that fellows page.

[Kaegi2011]

 

I'm not sure that I quite understand the fixation on having "correct" and up to date statistics.  What would governments in the US do differently if they had "good" statistics resulting from more prevalent testing? 

 

In my mind it has less to do with what the govt will do as what the citizens should do, now and in the future.  Imagine, if I saw that new infections and deaths were going down, and testing was going up, I would feel far better about traveling with my family (and we have three trips planned for the next three months, two including my parents, who are in their mid/late 60s).  In the absence of information, I'm going to do the safer thing, which is to not travel.  Nothing is worth putting my parents at risk, so it's just not worth it. 

 

So even if that info isn't immediately useful at this moment, I think it'll be immensely helpful in the not too distant future in terms of helping all of us get on with life. 

[Kaegi2011]

Is it really in anyone but the medias interest to peddle fear and chaos? As we just saw last week, way too many folks watching too much Walking Dead.

 

Um...  I for one would like to know how the virus is spreading (or not), for my own and my family's health, if for no other reason.  How is this controversial?

 

Its not controversial. There are other website that tracks this stuff and plenty of information on cases being updated regularly. There is a difference between that, and say purposely peddling propaganda and fear mongering for no reason other than clicks or hatred of the president. One is useful, the other, serves no purpose. As I pointed out earlier, several of the big left media outlets have entirely reconfigured their websites to play in to these things.

 

How does the "total tested" column have anything to do with your family's safety lol? If you think its an issue, take precaution. If you dont, do whatever floats your boat. Heck, they could test 50% of the population and tomorrow its meaningless because of spread and transmission. The "coverup" part is whats laughable, and you can clearly see the agenda if you spend 3 minutes looking around that fellows page.

 

I'm merely responding to your assertion that it's just the media who has an interest in the data (see quote above).  One does not need to have a view of anything political than to want to know the data. 

 

And yes, if 50% of the people were tested, it would absolutely inform whether I travel (heck, whether I'm even coming in for work!).  It all depends on the numerator.  You kind of have to know the top and bottom number to make any type of conclusion.  Again, not controversial? 

 

Also, I think it's ironic that you would on one hand complain about the spread conspiracy theories (which I agree with is not ideal) and the media, while on the other hand support the CDC (a branch of the federal govt, whom we should be able to trust the data) in withholding the data.  One or the other...

[Gregmal]

Sometimes you have to manage a situation and it isn't one thing or the other. Much like we saw in 2008-09(just as an example). If you feed the people looking to stir up problems, you will likely cause greater harm than good. If the government misleads people into thinking they are safe when they are not, you cause more harm then good. There is a fine line. It'll never be perfect.

[Viking]

Well, for one, thats just one of the minuscule differences between America and China. Chinese say, "sit your ass down, for the good of the country, we are handling this, how we see fit, if you dont like it, tough". In America, we over analysis the fuck out of every single little data point and demand things like total number of tests administered just to further perpetuate headlines and conspiracy theories. As we already saw, is it really in anyone but the medias interest to peddle fear and chaos? As we just saw last week, way too many folks watching too much Walking Dead.

 

Um...  I for one would like to know how the virus is spreading (or not), for my own and my family's health, if for no other reason.  How is this controversial?

 

Its not controversial. There are other website that tracks this stuff and plenty of information on cases being updated regularly. There is a difference between that, and say purposely peddling propaganda and fear mongering for no reason other than clicks or hatred of the president. One is useful, the other, serves no purpose. As I pointed out earlier, several of the big left media outlets have entirely reconfigured their websites to play in to these things.

 

How does the "total tested" column have anything to do with your family's safety lol? If you think its an issue, take precaution. If you dont, do whatever floats your boat. Heck, they could test 50% of the population and tomorrow its meaningless because of spread and transmission. The "coverup" part is whats laughable, and you can clearly see the agenda if you spend 3 minutes looking around that fellows page.

 

Greg, here is a real example. The provincial government where i live (British Columbia) published on the weekend that they had performed well over 1,000 tests to date (and 1,400 total as some people were tested more than once). To provide perspective, they said the US up to that point had performed less than 500. The population of BC is 4.8 million. The population of the US is 328 million.

 

To put this in perspective, if the US government was testing at the same per capita rate it would be up over 68,000 tests. It had done less than 500.

 

This informed me of two things.

1.) Our provincial government is testing a shitload more people than the US. That made me feel better about our level of preparedness.

2.) the US has completely missed the boat on stopping the virus from quickly getting established in the country. This is the most important step in the whole ‘deal with the virus’ playbook. WTF?

 

This then helped me decide to not go to Oregon on vacation in March. It also has resulted in me moving my portfolio to cash (as i think this will likely impact the broader economy in the US in the coming months). Maybe there is no impact to the broader US and global economy; i am comfortable forgoing some return until more is known.

 

I hope the US continues to publish lots of statistics. Just like i hope Canada and all countries do. Source data will help individuals understand how their governments are doing and hold them more accountable (particularly when they look to be underperforming).

 

The fact that both sides are going to politicize everything is not a reason to stop the flow of source information. If we are told to trust Donald Trump to do the right thing i think we can all agree that would be another big mistake in trying to manage this virus (and a few have clearly been made already). We all can agree that he is not to be trusted, especially in this situation (and that is not a political statement - we have 3 years of proof).

[Kaegi2011]

Sometimes you have to manage a situation and it isn't one thing or the other. Much like we saw in 2008-09(just as an example). If you feed the people looking to stir up problems, you will likely cause greater harm than good. If the government misleads people into thinking they are safe when they are not, you cause more harm then good. There is a fine line. It'll never be perfect.

 

Have you considered the possibility that conspiracy theories arise due to the lack of information? 

[Gregmal]

I agree with the sentiment on Trump. One of my biggest "look out below" apprehensions relates to something similar to last week where this guy goes out there and tries so hard to send the right message, that he becomes completely unreliable and then combines that with further desperate and see through attempts to do the same; ultimately rendering pretty much everything coming from them useless and unreliable. There, in that case, could be bottomless drops as nothing will reassure anyone of anything. However I believe we are a long ways away from that and contrary to the reports, I dont think he and his administration have done anything better or worse than most else have.

 

I think conspiracy theories can arise from both lack or information, and from having too much information. Often it is easier with too much before dots can be created and linked that otherwise wouldn't exist. Its in fact, a common tactic used by activist short sellers.

[Gregmal]

So sure, some people genuinely might want to know data set ABC. However quite a few others, with agendas, ask for ABC. When they dont get it, they cry about withholding info and conspiracy theories. On the other hand if they do get it, it never ends there, it turns to "then what about this?" or "why is that done this way". Many of these "questions" have little objective but to stir the pot and create counterproductive narratives. Just like Mr. Einhorns "why did you stop tracking that on the 10k" question on the Herbalife call.

[StubbleJumper]

Well, for one, thats just one of the minuscule differences between America and China. Chinese say, "sit your ass down, for the good of the country, we are handling this, how we see fit, if you dont like it, tough". In America, we over analysis the fuck out of every single little data point and demand things like total number of tests administered just to further perpetuate headlines and conspiracy theories. As we already saw, is it really in anyone but the medias interest to peddle fear and chaos? As we just saw last week, way too many folks watching too much Walking Dead.

 

Um...  I for one would like to know how the virus is spreading (or not), for my own and my family's health, if for no other reason.  How is this controversial?

 

Its not controversial. There are other website that tracks this stuff and plenty of information on cases being updated regularly. There is a difference between that, and say purposely peddling propaganda and fear mongering for no reason other than clicks or hatred of the president. One is useful, the other, serves no purpose. As I pointed out earlier, several of the big left media outlets have entirely reconfigured their websites to play in to these things.

 

How does the "total tested" column have anything to do with your family's safety lol? If you think its an issue, take precaution. If you dont, do whatever floats your boat. Heck, they could test 50% of the population and tomorrow its meaningless because of spread and transmission. The "coverup" part is whats laughable, and you can clearly see the agenda if you spend 3 minutes looking around that fellows page.

 

Greg, here is a real example. The provincial government where i live (British Columbia) published on the weekend that they had performed well over 1,000 tests to date (and 1,400 total as some people were tested more than once). To provide perspective, they said the US up to that point had performed less than 500. The population of BC is 4.8 million. The population of the US is 328 million.

 

To put this in perspective, if the US government was testing at the same per capita rate it would be up over 68,000 tests. It had done less than 500.

 

This informed me of two things.

1.) Our provincial government is testing a shitload more people than the US. That made me feel better about our level of preparedness.

2.) the US has completely missed the boat on stopping the virus from quickly getting established in the country. This is the most important step in the whole ‘deal with the virus’ playbook. WTF?

 

This then helped me decide to not go to Oregon on vacation in March. It also has resulted in me moving my portfolio to cash (as i think this will likely impact the broader economy in the US in the coming months). Maybe there is no impact to the broader US and global economy; i am comfortable forgoing some return until more is known.

 

I hope the US continues to publish lots of statistics. Just like i hope Canada and all countries do. Source data will help individuals understand how their governments are doing and hold them more accountable (particularly when they look to be underperforming).

 

The fact that both sides are going to politicize everything is not a reason to stop the flow of source information. If we are told to trust Donald Trump to do the right thing i think we can all agree that would be another big mistake in trying to manage this virus (and a few have clearly been made already). We all can agree that he is not to be trusted, especially in this situation (and that is not a political statement - we have 3 years of proof).

 

 

So, what are your governments *doing* about it?  Yes, they are testing mainly people who are coming forward with respiratory illnesses.  But, has your federal government suspended travel to heavily infected areas such as China, Iran or Italy?  Nope.  It has issued a "Level 3" travel advisory to those areas and we can choose to travel or not.  Are they automatically quarantining us when we return from China, Iran, or Italy?  Nope.  They are asking people to voluntarily "self-isolate" for 14 days upon return.  It's nice that they are running a bunch of tests and finding that most people with respiratory illnesses are suffering from seasonal flu and pneumonia, but in terms of concrete measures to reduce the spread of Covid, they have done effectively nothing.  At least, the chief medical officers of health have acknowledged that this thing will likely end up hitting us hard and have recommended that we accumulate adequate supplies to take care of ourselves for 10 days or 2 weeks, should the need arise.

 

So, is the testing actually useful for decision making, or is it mostly show-biz to keep nervous people happy?

 

 

SJ

[Viking]

Stubble, you make excellent points. We will find out in the coming months how well the government in BC is doing. I would think that testing is an important part of the plan and at least on this metric they are executing.

[Castanza]

Can anyone speak to the differences of how information is being spread now vs when SARS occurred? Social media certainly has changed the efficiency, amount, and lifecycle if news. But our (societies) appetite and demand for instant information has also changed and could be skewing (how much is  or isn’t being withheld) this to an extent.

 

Clearly information is being withheld, but how do we know info wasn’t being withheld in the past and it simply wasn’t made known that govt was doing this in the past? There is clearly pros and cons to both sides of the argument. As Greg said it’s a fine line to walk.

[StubbleJumper]

Stubble, you make excellent points. We will find out in the coming months how well the government in BC is doing. I would think that testing is an important part of the plan and at least on this metric they are executing.

 

 

So, if you were the premier, what would you be doing? 

 

1) I would probably stop adding new people to waiting lists for medical procedures that can be postponed, and I'd be encouraging as many of my health practitioners as possible to go on vacation in the next couple of months, because it might be quite some time before they'll get another chance to take a couple of weeks off;

 

2) I'd be thinking hard about the return to school in September.  BC will likely scoot through to the end of June without any major problems, but the return to school could be an epidemiological time-bomb.  So what's the contingency plan there?

 

3) If you need surge capacity for respiratory patients, what's the contingency plan there?  Hospitals already run at virtually full capacity, so what's the plan for a "flu season surge" in September or October?  Usually the flu season surge lasts for a couple of weeks in February and overflow patients are treated in hallways.  But, if if a Covid surge lasts for 4 or 5 months beginning in the fall, what's the plan?  Empty school buildings might be useful....

 

4) Does the health system have an adequate stock of drugs and other materiel for a surge?  There's probably 6 months to figure it out...

 

 

So, yeah, your provincial government could be doing any number of useful things at this point.  Are they?  At least the testing and statistics make us feel good, right?

 

 

SJ

[John Hjorth]

WHO daily sit reports with numbers etc., for the numbers guys.

 

Not that bad, I would say. But numbers guys always want more numbers, more data.

[LC]

"Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master"

[John Hjorth]

LC,

 

That's wachtwoord's board signature, right?

[vinod1]

For the last 4 months I am coaching my son's school team on Disease Detectives for Science Olympiad. This is basically training to be an epidemiologist. So had been spending quite some time last few months on CDC's and WHO's text books on epidemiology.

 

Only have the most basic knowledge, but everything I have seen of the response from US is following the textbook to near perfection. They way they quickly stopped flights from the affected areas, to the quarantine of those coming back, to the quick public health warnings, etc. is pretty impressive.

 

You always have to look at 2nd order and 3rd order effects and so on. If you take a look at CDC protocols and their approach, they think about these.

 

Take an example from Fukushima nuclear power plant disaster. From Factfullness book:

 

People escaped the province as fast as they could, but 1,600 more people died.

It was not the leaking radioactivity that killed them. Not one person has yet been

reported as having died from the very thing that people were fleeing from. These

1,600 people died because they escaped. They were mainly old people who died

because of the mental and physical stresses of the evacuation itself or of life in

evacuation shelters. It wasn’t radioactivity, but the fear of radioactivity, that

killed them.

 

Vinod 

 

 

[LC]

LC,

 

That's wachtwoord's board signature, right?

 

I’m not positive but I did hear the quote on this forum, possibly from one of our favorite anarchists :)

 

Regardless I think it’s a brilliant quote. It’s all fair to come to different conclusions given the facts and evidence, but that information must be presented!

[Dalal.Holdings]

Cases ex China. Trend continues.

[Guest cherzeca]

it's not all bad with covid 19:  https://nypost.com/2020/03/02/top-adviser-to-iranian-supreme-leader-khamenei-dies-of-coronavirus/

[Gregmal]

Todays snap back does make things a little more interesting. I did some minor repositioning today, mainly of stuff I bought late last week. So we lose 12%, get back 5%. Is 7% the right number for "moderate pullback + corona"? Not really sure but I do agree volatility is likely here to stay and we may be collared.

[BG2008]

For the last 4 months I am coaching my son's school team on Disease Detectives for Science Olympiad. This is basically training to be an epidemiologist. So had been spending quite some time last few months on CDC's and WHO's text books on epidemiology.

 

Only have the most basic knowledge, but everything I have seen of the response from US is following the textbook to near perfection. They way they quickly stopped flights from the affected areas, to the quarantine of those coming back, to the quick public health warnings, etc. is pretty impressive.

 

You always have to look at 2nd order and 3rd order effects and so on. If you take a look at CDC protocols and their approach, they think about these.

 

Take an example from Fukushima nuclear power plant disaster. From Factfullness book:

 

People escaped the province as fast as they could, but 1,600 more people died.

It was not the leaking radioactivity that killed them. Not one person has yet been

reported as having died from the very thing that people were fleeing from. These

1,600 people died because they escaped. They were mainly old people who died

because of the mental and physical stresses of the evacuation itself or of life in

evacuation shelters. It wasn’t radioactivity, but the fear of radioactivity, that

killed them.

 

Vinod

 

Speaking of 2nd and 3rd order effects, I think that Fintwit and CoB have both been overly focused on the math behind the death rates, speed of spreading, etc.  So I will offer some of my personal opinions. 

 

1) Fear of becoming infected is very real and it is altering consumer/business behavior.  Anything that is discretionary is and have likely been hurt.  Many of these businesses have substantial operating leverage.  A 5% drop in revenue is likely a 50% drop in EBITDA.  Companies need to right size.  This likely means layouts, buying less inventory, etc.  To what degree? I don't know.  Which leads me to my next point, MasterCard

 

2) This is a quote from Masterdard.  I think Mastercard is a great proxy for world economy.  It sees GDP in real time.  They took their revenue guidance down by 2-3%.  I am not a macro-economist.  But I find it interesting that if they are lowering their revenue estimate by 2-3%, it likely means that the word's GDP is expected to grow 2-3% lower.  Someone correct me if I am wrong.  World GDP is expected to grow around 3%.  Won't this put the world into the dreaded "R Word"? 

 

“Cross-border travel, and to a lesser extent cross-border e-commerce growth, is being impacted by the Coronavirus,” the company said in a statement on Monday after the bell. The company said its first-quarter revenue growth will be about two to three percentage points lower than previous guidance.

 

“If the impact is limited to the first quarter only, we expect that our 2020 annual year-over-year net revenue growth rate would be at the low end of the low-teens range,” the company added.

 

3) The WHO infection reports are interesting to look at.  67k infected in Hubei province and 2,803 death.  Muscelman (I hope his family is doing well) has mentioned that both numerator and denominator are likely too low.  To be honest, I think the figure outside of Hubei is actually trending better than I thought as it has been a few weeks.  A few thoughts here, people on FinTwit and here may be overly relying on different disease ratios etc.  First, you're working with data provided by Chinese government which probably under reports the figures. There is the testing/no testing dynamic.  One interesting thing to note is that diseases spread differently in different population density.  What do we know? 

 

https://www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/20200302-sitrep-42-covid-19.pdf?sfvrsn=d863e045_2

 

It spreads easily on a cruise ship - Close quarters, shared, facilities etc

It spread easily in WuHan, Hubei has a population of 8.3mm.  Like most cities in China, it has a high reliance on buses, subways, and most buildings are high density apartment buildings.  This is likely very different than the US where people live in suburbs and tend to travel by their own car which tends to carry the atmosphere with it.  Which leads me to the fact that New York City, Paris, London, and etc are more prone than Rochester NY or Detroit Suburbs. 

 

4) The community spread in California worries me.  They can't trace the origin.  So the virus was already in the population.  Like the Chinese data, US data likely has too low numerator and denominator.  Then we hear that a Rhode Island school has contracted the virus on a field trip to Italy. 

 

5) Any comparison to SARs and previous disease is likely flawed because 1) the supply chain is way more interconnected globally and 2) the ability to get on a plane and be half way across the world in 12 hours in unbelievable

 

6) The initial reaction is to become "anti-social".  This has tremendous effects on the economy.  If you talk to most restaurant operators in NYC, they have noticed drops in business volume, especially the ones in the Chinese communities.  No it's not racism, the Chinese American consumers have stopped doing Dim Sum and Chinese restaurants. 

 

7) There are too much unknown unknowns and we can even have a contagion of the spread of the disease but the economic impact could be quite substantial.  I think Q1 earnings will be interesting to see.  Businesses are adaptive and trickles down.  If the Airline is laying off people, then there is less need for parts.  If the supply chain is disruptive and they can't get the auto parts to the US, then car plants have to slow the plant assembly.  If you read enough of the various corporate announcements to revisions to revenue, you can kind of see lots of revenue and earnings miss in Q1.  Even Microsoft has said that corporate updates for Windows 10 will likely slip into another quarter.  Nike has warned of supply chain issues.  Is this 1 quarter, 2 quarters, 3?  At what point does the market as a whole loses confidence? 

 

Just be more open minded people, embrace the chaos, prepare accordingly, and don't declare intellectual victory too soon.  I think the next 4-8 weeks will be critical. 

 

 

 

[John Hjorth]

Greg, here is a real example. The provincial government where i live (British Columbia) published on the weekend that they had performed well over 1,000 tests to date (and 1,400 total as some people were tested more than once). To provide perspective, they said the US up to that point had performed less than 500. The population of BC is 4.8 million. The population of the US is 328 million.

 

To put this in perspective, if the US government was testing at the same per capita rate it would be up over 68,000 tests. It had done less than 500.

 

This informed me of two things.

1.) Our provincial government is testing a shitload more people than the US. That made me feel better about our level of preparedness.

2.) the US has completely missed the boat on stopping the virus from quickly getting established in the country. This is the most important step in the whole ‘deal with the virus’ playbook. WTF? ...

 

I sense it that way as you, Viking, however I'm not sure.

 

What I think is important to remember are a few things :

 

1. The strength and power of the US health care system. [Here I'm not talking about it's economic efficiency, the costs related to it and so on.] It's about its strength and power from a strictly professional angle. I think it actually can ramp up if it gets the funding needed [which I think it eventually will, based on political considerations] [if border walls qualify for POTUS emergency measures, I think this one will too.] Spekulatius has earlier in this topic shared some thoughts about 9/11 and US ramp up after that, I'm more thinking in line of an analogy to Pearl Harbour, well aware of that this is about some other kind of countermeasure.

 

2. In the US there are [sadly] now corps on the table.

 

3. Health care professionals [doctors, scientists etc.] operate and function in formal and informal digital networks, across borders and across societal system designs etc. I speculate the powers of these digital structures are great, based on sharing of thoughts, evidence, experience and so on, to tackle this challenge.

[Viking]

If you want to hear the unvarnished truth of where the US is at and what is coming next watch this CNBC video. Dr. Scott Gottlieb, member of the boards of Pfizer and biotech company Illumina and former FDA commissioner, and Dr. Matt McCarthy, an infectious disease physician, join "Squawk Box" to discuss the latest on the coronavirus outbreak.

 

NYC ER doctor: I have to 'plead to test people' for coronavirus

 

Guest 1: Dr. Matt McCarthy

- The problem right now is I still do not have a rapid diagnostic test available

- In New York State 32 tests have been done. That is a national scandal.

- We know there are 88 cases in the US. There are going to be hundreds by the middle of the week. And thousands by next week

- The message today we are hearing from this administration that the risk is low, that things are probably going to be OK, that you don’t need to change your lifestyle. That is simply not true.

- You are going to see widespread disruption to daily life. Do not believe the false reassurance.

- We are hearing that life is going to go about normal. This is just not true.

- The longer we wait to get testing up and running the worst this will be.

- A week or two from now is when we will begin to get real information. Now we are still largely flying blind.

 

Guest 2: Dr. Scott Gottlieb

- A vaccine is a year or two away.

- Hopefully this will start to dissipate in July and August

- We need a backstop in place – it is likely going to come back in the fall

- For a while this is going to be regional. We are probably a couple of weeks away from significant measures in Washington state.

- There is probably low thousands of cases currently in this country



[Dalal.Holdings]

 

1. The strength and power of the US health care system.

 

 

Lol. You mean spend more $$ for poorer outcomes strength and power? See Viking's post above mine. If you are hoping to be saved by U.S. healthcare system/pharma, prepare to be disappointed.

 

Don't worry, the Republicans, led by Pence, are already using their greatest weapon: "thoughts and prayers". It works after every gun rampage, why not now? Science is useless and agencies like the EPA and CDC are socialist money pits that deserve to be starved of funding (but we'll sure miss them when we need them!).