Looking for Advice / Stories from Older folks

[crs223]

2 hours ago, randomep said:

 

hi Spek, you and crs223 seem to be both saying that older technical people are valued but they leave anyway

 

I was not trying to say that.  At my place older technical non-managers are valued and needed.  They don’t get pushed out in favor of younger folks.  And they don’t leave. (except retirement)

 

In my business our labor/hours are billed to the customer.  So we in general want to keep our expensive older guys working full time; provided the customer likes the work.

 

And my overall point was just to say that “old labor” is valued… maybe just in certain “profit models” though.  So if you don’t feel valued or are feeling uneasy… and you are skilled… you might be able to find a better place to work. 

 

I work in electrical engineering.

[Guest]

For the guys that have been working for 20+ years and love their job, would you still do it if you had $100 million, $10 billion or whatever?

 

That, to me, says whether someone really loves their job. They would basically do it for free. If you would do something else if you were super wealthy, chances are you might not mind your job or even sort of like it, but probably don't love it.

[ICUMD]

Like it or not, a job gives you purpose. A goal, an offering of expertise, a reason to get up in the morning, structure to your day, social interaction and in some cases, a feeling of accomplishment.

 

Money, after a house, food and basics  are provided for, seems to buy extra comfort at exponentially more cost. 

 

Money also is a strong, addictive motivator to keep people working/producing with greed and envy and the economy churning.  

 

Important distinctions, not necessarily independent or comissurate.

 

At least that's my take!

 

PS.  So yes, personally, I'd still keep working.

 

 

 

Edited October 22, 2022 by ICUMD

[boilermaker75]

I could comfortably retire, but won't because I love what I do. What I do does not depend on my net worth.

 

 Of all the  blue zones, Okinawans have the highest life expectancy. In Okinawa, there isn’t even a word for retirement. Instead there’s simply ‘ikigai,’ which essentially means ‘the reason for which you wake up in the morning.’”

[crs223]

3 hours ago, stahleyp said:

For the guys that have been working for 20+ years and love their job, would you still do it if you had $100 million, $10 billion or whatever?

 

That, to me, says whether someone really loves their job. They would basically do it for free. If you would do something else if you were super wealthy, chances are you might not mind your job or even sort of like it, but probably don't love it.

 

I imagine I feel the same about my job as an astronaut does.  I would do most of it for free (if I did not need money)... but of course nobody wants to do HR training, or deal with a cranky person.  But it's not just the "work" part.  I live in the best city in the country (that I've found so far), I ride my bike to work, play basketball during lunch, set my own hours, and I'm an owner.  I just stumbled into the job when I got out of college -- lucky sperm club as Buffett would call it.  But now that I know what to look for, I'm gonna try to steer my kids to seek out a great job.

[Guest]

Well, you guys are very fortunate then. I never found a job like that. In fact, I lived on very little to make sure I didn't have a job I hated in the future.

[LC]

6 hours ago, stahleyp said:

For the guys that have been working for 20+ years and love their job, would you still do it if you had $100 million, $10 billion or whatever?

 

That, to me, says whether someone really loves their job. They would basically do it for free. If you would do something else if you were super wealthy, chances are you might not mind your job or even sort of like it, but probably don't love it.

I would, but may change some of the environment. 
 

I like building statistical models and seeing how well they perform. I’d do that (or at least be thinking about it) whether I’m being paid or not. I could do without having all the red-tape surrounding the execution of the models, though. 

[Guest]

So if you guys had $100 million, would you continue to do your job as it currently is structured?

 

I think most people like certain aspects of their job but would still quit if they had a ton of money.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, LC said:

I like building statistical models and seeing how well they perform. I’d do that (or at least be thinking about it) whether I’m being paid or not. 

 

LC, you are incredibly nerdy. Congrats on the accomplishment!

[LC]

Models and bottles as they say!

 

And to answer your question, I would remove everything from my role except building the actual model. Right now I have to jump thru so much red tape to get my team access to data, to explain to other parties how the model is built/functions, where the model breaks down, etc. I can understand why it’s important but to me it’s just not that interesting. But it’s the price I pay to have access to data and technology I wouldn’t otherwise have (even if I had 100mm in the bank)

Edited October 23, 2022 by LC

[Gregmal]

At some point though wouldn’t it just be more fun to coach little league or do volunteer work. Teaching even? Giving back is awesome and also the added benefit of a simple 9-4 where the job stays at work.
 

Especially with work from home, it seems work/life separation is tougher than ever. Having something to do to keep busy, socialize, and maybe also provide some pocket change and insurance, while also just not needing it at all and having no stress about it has always been what I think my end goal is. 

[crs223]

If I “didn’t need the money” I’d continue to work my job.  Some parts I’d even pay to do.  For example working with some particularly talented people and working on some particularly important projects.  More relatable example: I’d work for Buffett for free if i didnt need the money.

 

If I “had $100M” I would stop working and redirect my life to some other purpose e.g. local philanthropy.

[james22]

22 hours ago, ICUMD said:

Like it or not, a job gives you purpose. A goal, an offering of expertise, a reason to get up in the morning, structure to your day, social interaction and in some cases, a feeling of accomplishment.

 

Retired, I've all those (important) things.

 

And everyone I deal with is by choice.

[SharperDingaan]

Keep in mind that you're looking at a very narrow 'silo' (niche tech), and extrapolating that the rest of the world looks like this too. Of course, it isn't, and the technical also includes the accountants, finance folks, logistics/operations folks, engineers, etc., etc. A lot of technical folks will tell you that they love what they do - but when you are at the top of your game, and add in the reality and intense stress (admin, politics, finance, arseholes, etc.) that is part of it; it's really a time limited gig. As you move on, you try to keep doing what you were doing, but in a different way that is less intensive.

 

Thing is, that when you identify so closely with what you do (would even pay to do it); when you lose it in a restructuring - you're suddenly adrift without an anchor. Going from a life of 100 mph to 0 mph, in an instant, is a leading cause of death - as many a grave in the graveyard can attest to. It's those healthy outside interests that save your ass; whatever they may be.

 

If you had 100M most people would still 'work', but just in a different way. The volunteer 'doge' at the local art gallery, the minimum wage earner for a few weeks/month per year, through to the traditional full time philanthropist. It's not the money, it's the 'other interests' and interactions with other people. Simply making more money when you already have more than you could possibly need, is pretty redundant.

 

Different PoV.

 

SD

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 23, 2022 by SharperDingaan

[cubsfan]

3 minutes ago, james22 said:

 

Retired, I've all those (important) things.

 

And everyone I deal with is by choice.

 

I think this sentiment is incredibly important and overlooked. Whether you are in business for yourself or retired.  The best thing that I did not expect - was - I don't have to deal with

assholes. By and large, having the freedom to deal with only people like or respect is a wonderful thing. When you're young, it might help to plan for such a life eventually.

[Ulti]

12 minutes ago, cubsfan said:

I don't have to deal with

assholes. By and large, having the freedom to deal with only people I like...

Having owned a practice for 40 years and recently retired....I can tell you I dismissed patients for this very reason. It certainly extended my career working on nice people.

[james22]

6 hours ago, cubsfan said:

 

I think this sentiment is incredibly important and overlooked. Whether you are in business for yourself or retired.  The best thing that I did not expect - was - I don't have to deal with

assholes. By and large, having the freedom to deal with only people like or respect is a wonderful thing. When you're young, it might help to plan for such a life eventually.

 

I expected it (one of the reasons I retired early), but still underestimated what a difference it makes in my life.

 

Unbelievable.

[greenwave]

6 hours ago, cubsfan said:

 

I think this sentiment is incredibly important and overlooked. Whether you are in business for yourself or retired.  The best thing that I did not expect - was - I don't have to deal with

assholes. By and large, having the freedom to deal with only people like or respect is a wonderful thing. When you're young, it might help to plan for such a life eventually.

So True !

[Gregmal]

Ha! This is why the financial industry is so toxic and undesirable. 95% of folks are egotistical, attention seeking, depraved liars and sociopaths who would sell out their moms for a bonus or step up the career ladder. 

[crs223]

Could it be: the practical value of "having more money than you need" is to remove the assholes from your life.

 

I wonder what all these assholes do when they get a lot of money!

[Gregmal]

Many of those assholes are easy to identify because they simply never have enough money. It’s always more, more, more. Millionaires stepping on other peoples throats to add to their pile. Or even when they are generous it’s because they get something out of it. The type of people who only donate money if they can have their name mentioned somewhere and only if they can write it off. 

[cubsfan]

^^ Yeah, and if they didn't go into finance, they went into software sales. I know the type.

[rkbabang]

9 hours ago, SharperDingaan said:

If you had 100M most people would still 'work', but just in a different way. The volunteer 'doge' at the local art gallery, the minimum wage earner for a few weeks/month per year, through to the traditional full time philanthropist. It's not the money, it's the 'other interests' and interactions with other people. Simply making more money when you already have more than you could possibly need, is pretty redundant.

Exactly.  I love my job and plan to do it until I retire.  But if I had $100M it would be silly to continue to work for hundreds of thousands.  I would do something else, but I have no idea what.  I'll probably never have to decide that so I don't spend much time thinking about it.

 

[SharperDingaan]

There is an investment 'upside' to the financial arseholes. 

 

To them, it is all about appearances and their perceived 'rank' amongst their peers - money is just the counter used to determine it; so ... FOMO will continuously drive them into the market - as manic depressives! To make a gain on a swing trade, you need someone to buy your 'overvalued' asset, and sell it back to you when its 'cheap'. Could be a stock, or an apartment in that 'must have' neighborhood in a New York, London, or Paris.

 

Opens the door to lots of possibilities .......

 

SD

 

[CharlesMunger]

 

On 10/23/2022 at 3:04 AM, Gregmal said:

At some point though wouldn’t it just be more fun to coach little league or do volunteer work. Teaching even? Giving back is awesome and also the added benefit of a simple 9-4 where the job stays at work.
 

Especially with work from home, it seems work/life separation is tougher than ever. Having something to do to keep busy, socialize, and maybe also provide some pocket change and insurance, while also just not needing it at all and having no stress about it has always been what I think my end goal is. 

100%!

 

Even if I had infinite money, I would still work a few hours a week. I think it's nice to interact with different people, and it keeps you going. My grandparents had their own company, and they went to the office until they were 97 and 92. 

 

—

 

I am probably one of the younger folks here - turned 26 couple of months ago. I am working in FDD and thought it would be a  solid foundation for my career. But I don't really find it satisfying. There is so much stupid and unnecessary adhoc/asap work. People are quite nice compared to these M&A shops, but at the end of the day, it somehow feels like everyone in finance lives in some sort of a bubble. What also frustrates me is that if you've read Buffett/Munger, you also know that most of what you do is not really relevant.

 

Always find myself in this spot between "be happy with the job/opportunities you have and keep it going a couple of years" and "if you're not happy, switch immediately," (don't save sex for old age)

 

Goal for me is to become independent as soon as possible. Since I moved to Zurich and taxes are low, thats maybe 7-8 years out.