Russia-Ukrainian War - Political

[Luke]

Just now, cubsfan said:

Yes - that is the whole point. He needs the US or he needs Europe to solve this.

 

Now he knows the American position. 

All i can say is kudos to the trump administration. They are not willing to spend that much money with nothing to gain but more men dead. They are reestablishing diplomatic relations with russia, having phone calls, call for a cease-fire to stop the dying...finally someone doing something.

[cubsfan]

Here is the latest news:

 

Zelenksky begged to stay. No one shook his hand. He was ushered to the door of the White House and asked to leave.

 

You are witnessing high stakes negotiations in progress. Shit, you're trying to settle a war!

 

It's not for the faint of heart. Ball in Ukraine's court.

[Grenville]

+ 1 ... nicely put altho not surprised in the least

 

19 minutes ago, dwy000 said:

Are you serious?  How deep in the cult are you?  

 

Ukranian leadership just supported him unanimously last week.  He doesn't have to sell them on anything. And he's not choosing to continue the war, he's choosing to defend his country from an invader.  Yes, Europe will bail him out. And he's already lost the support of the US. When Putin's puppet came in.  

 

To watch this made me truly embarrassed to be American for the first time ever. 

 

[Luke]

20 minutes ago, cubsfan said:

Here is the latest news:

 

Zelenksky begged to stay. No one shook his hand. He was ushered to the door of the White House and asked to leave.

 

You are witnessing high stakes negotiations in progress. Shit, you're trying to settle a war!

 

It's not for the faint of heart. Ball in Ukraine's court.

Yeah. I think Selensky is in disbelief of his situation, frankly. He will now try to convince europe to increase stakes into this war. IMO Germany wont follow and can not looking at recent election results. Without germany europe wont do anything either. The time ticks...i wonder what these scenes at the white house will do to Ukrainian opinions on selensky, the biden era western media always wanted to portray a unified ukraine that 100% stood behind selenskies total defense at all costs and willing to sacrifice everyone to sustain what is unsustainable. Reality is, there are many people in ukraine that know this strategy wont work, he has no manpower, no weapons, defect infrastructure, couple of millions of people already left the country...rock and a hard place.

Edited 3 hours ago by Luke

[cubsfan]

2 minutes ago, Luke said:

Yeah. I think Selensky is in disbelief of his situation, frankly. He will now try to convince europe to increase stakes into this war. IMO Germany wont follow and can not looking at recent election results. Without germany europe wont do anything either. The time ticks...i wonder what these scenes at the white house will do to Ukrainian opinions on selensky, the biden era western media always wanted to portray a unified ukraine that 100% stood behind selenskies total defense at all costs and willing to sacrifice everyone to sustain what is unsustainable. Reality is, there are many people in ukraine that know this strategy wont work, he has no manpower, no weapons, defect infrastructure, couple of millions of people already left the country...rock and a hard place.

 

Absolutely right. It's very good for this to have taken place on public TV. Both Ukraine's leadership and Europe's leadership understand what Zelensky is up against. He did the best he could without the Europeans taking this over. 

 

European countries get to decide if they want to continue the meat-grinder and take up the slack left by America - and lose their sons & daughters in Ukraine.

 

Hopefully, they will vote to stop all the useless killing.

[Luke]

6 minutes ago, cubsfan said:

Absolutely right. It's very good for this to have taken place on public TV. Both Ukraine's leadership and Europe's leadership understand what Zelensky is up against. He did the best he could without the Europeans taking this over. 

 

European countries get to decide if they want to continue the meat-grinder and take up the slack left by America - and lose their sons & daughters in Ukraine.

 

Hopefully, they will vote to stop all the useless killing.

The thing is, Selensky will knock at everyones door to try to get as much weapons, manpower, money as he can get to fight Russia and get back the territories. This is totally understandable from his perspective. The countries he is asking for help though not only face massive ressources they have to give away and harm local budgets but also face security risks, even more than the US which is far away from Europe. Selenskies incentives are to engage other countries military to fight russia together but he wont get that, id would be madness and WW3, as trump said it...lets see where he tries to get further funding or if he is finally forced to settle for a deal that could have been settled years ago  

[LC]

Congrats to the Russian shills - kompromat Trumpf really is your guy! 

 

We just witnessed a big ten steps back in global peace, democratic values, capitalist society, a western way of life, and American influence. Disgusting.

 

[cubsfan]

3 minutes ago, Luke said:

 he is finally forced to settle for a deal that could have been settled years ago  

 

Key line 

Edited 3 hours ago by cubsfan

[cubsfan]

2 minutes ago, LC said:

Congrats to the Russian shills - kompromat Trumpf really is your guy! 

 

We just witnessed a big ten steps back in global peace, democratic values, capitalist society, a western way of life, and American influence. Disgusting.

 

 

Let the killing continue @LC

[Luke]

8 minutes ago, LC said:

Congrats to the Russian shills - kompromat Trumpf really is your guy! 

 

We just witnessed a big ten steps back in global peace, democratic values, capitalist society, a western way of life, and American influence. Disgusting.

 

But look at the facts:

1. Hundreds of thousands of mutilated or dead ukranian men.

2. No progress on the front although hundred of billions of USD spent and further dying

3. Majority of infrastructure destroyed and will be further destroyed

4. No air superiority, not enough men, not enough tanks, not enough drones, the list is long.

 

Lets say you would want "global peace, democratic values, western way of life", what is the next thing to do here?

 

Increase the amount of money and weapons given to them? What did it get them so far and how do you want to solve the man power problem? Russia hasnt even had a total mobilization while selensky is scratching the last men from the streets. Would you want your own military drive to Ukraine and also fight against russia? Then we not only would have a local conflict but a world war, maybe not only 1m+ dead but 10-20m. And for what? To get back a small peace of land because that would be more fair? If you follow that logic, why dont you want to send men to africa, to the kongo to free them from rebells where thousands are dying...reason is that conflicts shouldnt escalate into a bigger and bigger war. Sometimes you gotta make a cease fire-take a peace deal that is reasonable under the promise that nobody further will die...its not black and white here, the lifes of millions are at stake and Trump and Vance protect those while selensky wants further bloodshed until his goals are achieved.

Edited 3 hours ago by Luke

[LC]

1 minute ago, cubsfan said:

 

Let the killing continue @LC

 

Exactly what King George said in 1775. 

 

 

[Luke]

That said, Putin has its own goals and isnt a "good guy" here either. He is a authoritarian brutalist and responsible for the death of many, accepting horrible military practices to protect russias interests. But at this point selensky is continueing what shouldnt be continued, his men are dying and he makes no progress. He has to cut a deal NOW and protect whats left, anything else is madness.

Edited 3 hours ago by Luke

[cubsfan]

3 minutes ago, Luke said:

But look at the facts:

1. Hundreds of thousands of mutilated or dead ukranian men.

2. No progress on the front although hundred of billions of USD spent and further dying

3. Majority of infrastructure destroyed and will be further destroyed

4. No air superiority, not enough men, not enough tanks, not enough drones, the list is long.

 

Lets say you would want "global peace, democratic values, western way of life", what is the next thing to do here?

 

Increase the amount of money and weapons given to them? What did it get them so far and how do you want to solve the man power problem? Russia hasnt even had a total mobilization while selensky is scratching the last men from the streets. Would you want your own military drive to Ukraine and also fight against russia? Then we not only would have a local conflict but a world war, maybe not only 1m+ dead but 10-20m. And for what? To get back a small peace of land because that would be more fair? If you follow that logic, why dont you want to send men to africa, to the kongo to free them from rebells where thousands are dying...reason is that conflicts shouldnt escalate into a bigger and bigger war. Sometimes you gotta make a cease fire-take a peace deal that is reasonable under the promise that nobody further will die...its not black and white here, the lifes of millions are at stake and Trump and Vance protect those while selensky wants further bloodshed until his goals are achieved.

 

Don't confuse these guys with facts. It never works.

 

They want war, not peace.

[LC]

Just now, Luke said:

That said, Putin has its own goals and isnt a "good guy" here either. He is a authoritarian brutalist and responsible for the death of many, accepting horrible military practices to protect russias interests. But at this point selensky is continueing what shouldnt be continued, his men are dying and he makes no progress. He has to cut a deal NOW and protect whats left, anything else is madness.

 

 

If you don't stop this now then we are screwed. 

 

I hope you're not the type that thinks allowing Hitler to annex his way across eastern Europe in 1938 was a good thing to "prevent further violence". Remember how that worked out?

[LC]

You want an idea how to solve the troop issue? 

 

Take the millions of migrants trying to enter Europe. Stick guns in their hands and tell them to go kill some Russian bastards in Ukraine. Take back Ukranian borders, get them in NATO, and provide some path to European citizenship. 

[Spekulatius]

The USA is turning into an imperialist power. @kab60 Mark my words, but Trump is serious about Greenland too. He want wants to be the president who makes America larger on terms of land mass.

 

Imperialist powers think in terms of land mass first and # of people second . And imperialist likes to deal with other imperialist who think the same way. Thats now an imperialist trifecta of China, Russia, USA and soon India I think.

 

Those not on above list (Europe, Canada etc ) need to do something or they become colonies to be pushed around.

 

What a time to be alive.

[Ulti]

Just now, LC said:

e the millions of migrants trying to enter Europe. Stick guns in their hands and tell them to go kill some Russian bastards in Ukraine. Take back Ukranian borders, get them in NATO, and

Yep and let them fight the North Koreans…. Possibly another “ soon to be communist dictator ally”

[Luke]

1 minute ago, LC said:

 

 

If you don't stop this now then we are screwed. 

 

I hope you're not the type that thinks allowing Hitler to annex his way across eastern Europe in 1938 was a good thing to "prevent further violence". Remember how that worked out?

Putin is totally different from Hitler. He has no globalist expansion dreams, the conflict is not out of power for expansion but for security interests that were disregarded with nato east expansion. Just look at some old interviews with putin where this was a problem already decades back. And you do remember that back then there were weapons not as advanced as they are today, deathcount of WW2 was 75m+. Its madness to say Putin is the same as hitler and that we face a 1938 situation which we do not.

[Paarslaars]

36 minutes ago, Luke said:

Yeah. I think Selensky is in disbelief of his situation, frankly. He will now try to convince europe to increase stakes into this war. IMO Germany wont follow and can not looking at recent election results. Without germany europe wont do anything either. The time ticks...i wonder what these scenes at the white house will do to Ukrainian opinions on selensky, the biden era western media always wanted to portray a unified ukraine that 100% stood behind selenskies total defense at all costs and willing to sacrifice everyone to sustain what is unsustainable. Reality is, there are many people in ukraine that know this strategy wont work, he has no manpower, no weapons, defect infrastructure, couple of millions of people already left the country...rock and a hard place.

The new german chancelor has publicly stated to back Ukraine 100% already.

 

Europe will stop Putin without the US, because if we don't, Poland will be next.

[cubsfan]

2 minutes ago, LC said:

You want an idea how to solve the troop issue? 

 

Take the millions of migrants trying to enter Europe. Stick guns in their hands and tell them to go kill some Russian bastards in Ukraine. Take back Ukranian borders, get them in NATO, and provide some path to European citizenship. 

 

Actually, that's a wonderful idea. Why hasn't Europe done it?

[Luke]

2 minutes ago, Spekulatius said:

The USA is turning into an imperialist power. @kab60 Mark my words, but Trump is serious about Greenland too. He want wants to be the president who makes America larger on terms of land mass.

 

Imperialist powers think in terms of land mass first and # of people second . And imperialist likes to deal with other imperialist who think the same way. Thats now an imperialist trifecta of China, Russia, USA and soon India I think.

 

Those not on above list (Europe, Canada etc ) need to do something or they become colonies to be pushed around.

 

What a time to be alive.

Right, small 0 growth europa and canada fighting against USA, China, Russia and India who control massive landmasses, technology and ressources aha.

[cubsfan]

3 minutes ago, Spekulatius said:

The USA is turning into an imperialist power. @kab60 Mark my words, but Trump is serious about Greenland too. He want wants to be the president who makes America larger on terms of land mass.

 

Imperialist powers think in terms of land mass first and # of people second . And imperialist likes to deal with other imperialist who think the same way. Thats now an imperialist trifecta of China, Russia, USA and soon India I think.

 

Those not on above list (Europe, Canada etc ) need to do something or they become colonies to be pushed around.

 

What a time to be alive.

 

Wait - I thought Trump was an "isolationist" ?

 

Which is it?

[Luke]

1 minute ago, Paarslaars said:

The new german chancelor has publicly stated to back Ukraine 100% already.

 

Europe will stop Putin without the US, because if we don't, Poland will be next.

He can say whatever he wants, he has no majority, he wont even have a majority with the SPD. He has to ask the Left or the AFD for budget expansion, they wont support this war. Thats simply how it is.

[Luke]

Right now i think there is just shock and disbelief. All the ukraine drumming since 3 years suddenly stops when Trump took office. Europe is already FAR behind the US and China in technology and infrastructure investment, if they now decide to invest trillions into this war then thats great for the US and China. Europe wont be any significant competitor anytime soon and soon will face the same bitter situation selensky faces now.

[dealraker]

The planned show, Jerry Springer style, sells like hotcakes the the base.  Love it!