dwy000 Posted January 12 Posted January 12 21 minutes ago, 73 Reds said: The punishment and solution for not being able to pay your bills should never be an increasing inability to pay your bills. Well ultimately it is the bank that pays the price at the end when the customer defaults. Which is why rates are set so high.
TwoCitiesCapital Posted January 12 Posted January 12 21 hours ago, cubsfan said: The fewer soy-boys, the better. Soy boys as in soy farmers, right? I hear Trump is absolutely annihilating their numbers so you should be good here.
dwy000 Posted January 12 Posted January 12 23 minutes ago, 73 Reds said: That's horseshit. No foresight whatsoever. And not good for the economy, society, the debtor or his/her creditors. No foresight? Its the ultimate foresight! The cc companies are looking out there and asking who doesnt have a card right now, who is likely to have an above average income in the future and who can i get in with who will need lots of banking down the road? All of those are college students. Its incredible foresight.
Parsad Posted January 12 Posted January 12 1 hour ago, 73 Reds said: So how is that beneficial to the economy, not to mention the individual, their dependents, their creditors, and society as a whole? The GOAT investor achieved 20%/year CAGR yet it is fine for people living paycheck to paycheck or no paycheck whatsoever to pay that interest rate and more on depreciating assets or no assets at all? On what planet does that make any sense? Your desire to teach Americans how to manage their finances would be catastrophic in the short-term! Continue your lesson. Cheers!
73 Reds Posted January 12 Posted January 12 1 minute ago, dwy000 said: No foresight? Its the ultimate foresight! The cc companies are looking out there and asking who doesnt have a card right now, who is likely to have an above average income in the future and who can i get in with who will need lots of banking down the road? All of those are college students. Its incredible foresight. @dwy000 You genuinely remind me of my kids when they were teenagers. I'm done here.
73 Reds Posted January 12 Posted January 12 1 minute ago, Parsad said: Your desire to teach Americans how to manage their finances would be catastrophic in the short-term! Continue your lesson. Cheers! Sure Sanjeev, everyone should pay exhorbitant interest rates. Nice lesson there!
dwy000 Posted January 12 Posted January 12 2 minutes ago, 73 Reds said: @dwy000 You genuinely remind me of my kids when they were teenagers. I'm done here. I cant figure out if thats a compliment to me or an insult to your own kids.
73 Reds Posted January 12 Posted January 12 Just now, dwy000 said: I cant figure out if thats a compliment to me or an insult to your own kids. << I can't figure out>> Yep.
TwoCitiesCapital Posted January 12 Posted January 12 4 hours ago, Malmqky said: I think government needs to stay away from dictating lending rates, etc. Let the free market do its thing. If CC rates *must* be capped however, same needs to happen to pay day loans, which are far more predatory. And other forms of financing. CC default rates are currently at ~15% for 30-90+ past due balances. This is NOT money that gets lent for 10%. Not even for 15% a profit motive needs to exist as well as a margin of safety. 2 hours ago, dwy000 said: Its arguable whether it is good for society as a whole but thats true of many, many things (alcohol, gambling, etc). We live in a free society and products get developed where need and demand encourage it. Providing credit for personal need is probably older than mortgages. The only freedom Republicans want is the freedom to be Republican. Freedom in who you love? Only if you aren't gay. Freedom of religion? Only if your religion is white Jesus. Freedom from govt tyranny and arms? Only if the government starts gunning down white Republicans - as was the case of the Jan 6 casualties. Freedom of bureaucratic red tape? Only when that red tape isn't being suggested by Trump. Free markets? Yes....until Republicans' friends need bailed out. Or until Trump decides he wants to raid the corporate piggy bank. Or until Trump's decides prior government grants count as equity. There is no freedom in the command/control economy/government Trump is establishing.
Parsad Posted January 12 Posted January 12 53 minutes ago, 73 Reds said: Legal gambling (as opposed to illegal gambling with a bookie, e.g.) is a different issue - theoretically you can only lose what you bet, you don't pay perpetual interest on your losses. You can lose everything you bet but not more than everything. Credit cards are a tool...how you use any tool is up to the individual. Should we get rid of bank loans as well? Why borrow from a bank...just save the money then buy a house or car. Let's get rid of margin accounts at the same time. Your moral high ground is great from a theoretical standpoint, but makes zero sense when viewed realistically. Personally, I would prefer if credit cards, pay day loan companies, non-traditional lenders, gambling, alcohol, strip joints, etc didn't exist. What happens is it just moves underground. Out of sight, out of mind...is that your preference? Cheers!
John Hjorth Posted January 12 Posted January 12 46 minutes ago, gfp said: ... 73 Reds is coming for your collateral - not your kneecaps! - @gfp simply has a memory of steel ..., wait... I mean ...
73 Reds Posted January 12 Posted January 12 Just now, Parsad said: Credit cards are a tool...how you use any tool is up to the individual. Should we get rid of bank loans as well? Why borrow from a bank...just save the money then buy a house or car. Let's get rid of margin accounts at the same time. Your moral high ground is great from a theoretical standpoint, but makes zero sense when viewed realistically. Personally, I would prefer if credit cards, pay day loan companies, non-traditional lenders, gambling, alcohol, strip joints, etc didn't exist. What happens is it just moves underground. Out of sight, out of mind...is that your preference? Cheers! 20%+ interest rates are largely aimed to take advantage of people who can least afford them.
Parsad Posted January 12 Posted January 12 3 minutes ago, 73 Reds said: Sure Sanjeev, everyone should pay exhorbitant interest rates. Nice lesson there! Not saying that everyone should pay exorbitant interest rates. But if a lender is lending to a lower credit quality profile, he should be compensated for the risk. Otherwise you would have a massive contraction in credit and a liquidity crisis. Cheers!
dwy000 Posted January 12 Posted January 12 1 minute ago, 73 Reds said: 20%+ interest rates are largely aimed to take advantage of people who can least afford them. 20% interest rates reflect default risk. If it was excessive, other lenders would swoop in there and offer cheaper credit.
John Hjorth Posted January 12 Posted January 12 (edited) Randy Fine [January 12th 2025] : Congressman Fine Introduces Greenland Annexation and Statehood Act to Strengthen U.S. National Security and Put Our Adversaries on Notice - - - o 0 o - - - That's certainly a new way to declare war, how about the element of surprise in agressive warfare? -Or perhaps just a special operation of some kind? [The last idiot isen't dead yet!] Edited January 12 by John Hjorth
Parsad Posted January 12 Posted January 12 2 minutes ago, 73 Reds said: 20%+ interest rates are largely aimed to take advantage of people who can least afford them. I would rather see banks and institutions reduce their ridiculous service charges for bullshit items...$40 for a wire in Canada...foreign exchange fees with a surcharge on credit cards...stupid oversized annual fees on credit card...etc. But stopping a corporation from charging rates that allow them a profit after loan losses...that's not in the purview of the government unless it is extremely excessive. Yeah, I could see a cap on rates, but 10% is stupid...let's be realistic! Cheers!
73 Reds Posted January 12 Posted January 12 2 minutes ago, Parsad said: Not saying that everyone should pay exorbitant interest rates. But if a lender is lending to a lower credit quality profile, he should be compensated for the risk. Otherwise you would have a massive contraction in credit and a liquidity crisis. Cheers! Usurious interest rates are predatory and wrong. Using your logic we should have no cap on interest rates at all. Circling back around to the actual "politics" of this thread, I am sorry that it took someone like Trump to bring this issue to the forefront and truly hope something good comes of it, if not now than at some point in the future.
Gregmal Posted January 12 Posted January 12 Yea I think the rate is ultimately saying that the person isnt credit worthy lol. Basically "this is the rate we'd have to charge to make money in the long run, dealing with you". The problem is many consumers are stupid.
Parsad Posted January 12 Posted January 12 1 minute ago, 73 Reds said: Usurious interest rates are predatory and wrong. Using your logic we should have no cap on interest rates at all. Circling back around to the actual "politics" of this thread, I am sorry that it took someone like Trump to bring this issue to the forefront and truly hope something good comes of it, if not now than at some point in the future. What do you consider usurious? Usury rates in North America are defined as 60% annualized or greater. Do you think it should be 10% as Trump does? Do you think it should be 15%? How about 20%? I mean let the market decide the rates! It's almost unbelievable that people who define themselves as capitalists want to restrict free markets! The world has gone bananas! Cheers!
73 Reds Posted January 12 Posted January 12 1 minute ago, Parsad said: What do you consider usurious? Usury rates in North America are defined as 60% annualized or greater. Do you think it should be 10% as Trump does? Do you think it should be 15%? How about 20%? I mean let the market decide the rates! It's almost unbelievable that people who define themselves as capitalists want to restrict free markets! The world has gone bananas! Cheers! Don't know where you are looking but every State in the US has its own legal definition of usury and its own exceptions. In Florida the rate is 18%/year.
Parsad Posted January 12 Posted January 12 Most credit card companies operate at a 20-1 loan to equity...if you're loan losses amount to 5%, which is barely higher than the current charge off rate, you are out of business. If it peaks at nearly 11% like during the GFC, the credit company is completely insolvent! Cheers!
73 Reds Posted January 12 Posted January 12 4 minutes ago, Parsad said: What do you consider usurious? Usury rates in North America are defined as 60% annualized or greater. Do you think it should be 10% as Trump does? Do you think it should be 15%? How about 20%? I mean let the market decide the rates! It's almost unbelievable that people who define themselves as capitalists want to restrict free markets! The world has gone bananas! Cheers! Then to me your definition of capitalism is unbelievable.
Parsad Posted January 12 Posted January 12 4 minutes ago, 73 Reds said: Don't know where you are looking but every State in the US has its own legal definition of usury and its own exceptions. In Florida the rate is 18%/year. Yeah, those are generally for bank loans below $500K...there are huge exceptions in almost every state: Credit cards Mortgage loans Auto loans Business/commercial loans Payday loans Cheers!
Parsad Posted January 12 Posted January 12 4 minutes ago, 73 Reds said: Then to me your definition of capitalism is unbelievable. Believe it or not...I'm a capitalist and believe in free markets. Not sure what your stance is. Cheers!
73 Reds Posted January 12 Posted January 12 1 minute ago, Parsad said: Yeah, those are generally for bank loans below $500K...there are huge exceptions in almost every state: Credit cards Mortgage loans Auto loans Business/commercial loans Payday loans Cheers! And why do you think usury laws apply to smaller loans? Most of the *other* loans on your list are secured in one form or another. I'm referring specifically to CC debt. The most ignorant, vulnerable, least educated folks with the least means wind up paying the highest interest rates. Glad you're OK with that; I'm not.
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