Spooky Posted January 13 Posted January 13 1 minute ago, 73 Reds said: Yeah but Canada still shares our border. Rhetorically I asked a while back how Canadians would feel if the US ceased to exist. Crickets for a response. I love the US and am rooting for you guys which is why I am so critical. You don't understand the sentiment in Canada, it feels like we have been stabbed in the back by our big brother.
73 Reds Posted January 13 Posted January 13 Just now, Spooky said: The US has shown itself to be an unreliable partner - Trump is still talking about walking away from NAFTA (I don't even know what its real name is any longer). These actions have long term consequences. Trump and the administration don't understand basic game theory - we are playing a series of repeat games. Not a one off game. See there is where a little perspective is needed. Trump does not have a lifetime appointment, contrary to some here who think he might. Most of the informed World recognizes US politics for what it is; a pendulum that swings in both directions. We needed some drastic changes domestically and Trump was elected to help reverse the pendulum's course. As I've stated many times, I'm largely satisfied. But when he goes too far, the pendulum will again swing the other way. Making mountains out of every political molehill suits the narratives of the party out of power and in this case, the national news media. Ultimately trade is based on need and economics, not the politician of the day.
Spooky Posted January 13 Posted January 13 Just now, 73 Reds said: See there is where a little perspective is needed. Trump does not have a lifetime appointment, contrary to some here who think he might. Most of the informed World recognizes US politics for what it is; a pendulum that swings in both directions. We needed some drastic changes domestically and Trump was elected to help reverse the pendulum's course. As I've stated many times, I'm largely satisfied. But when he goes too far, the pendulum will again swing the other way. Making mountains out of every political molehill suits the narratives of the party out of power and in this case, the national news media. Ultimately trade is based on need and economics, not the politician of the day. You don't get it. 75% of Canada's exports go to the US - the whims of your president have put the livelihoods and the economy for millions of Canadians in jeopardy. You can keep brushing this off but this is existential for us.
gfp Posted January 13 Posted January 13 11 minutes ago, Spooky said: Probably the biggest mistake Obama made was pulling out of the Trans Pacific Partnership. Was that Obama? I thought that was DJT
Spooky Posted January 13 Posted January 13 Just now, gfp said: Was that Obama? I thought that was DJT I miss remembered. Obama was trying to pass it and it was during his administration that it was pronounced dead since they couldn't get the votes in congress during the lame duck.
73 Reds Posted January 13 Posted January 13 Just now, Spooky said: You don't get it. 75% of Canada's exports go to the US - the whims of your president have put the livelihoods and the economy for millions of Canadians in jeopardy. You can keep brushing this off but this is existential for us. Yeah but the livelihoods and economics for tens of millions of Americans were under threat under the last administration. Every trade decision then and now has positive and adverse consequences. But heck, the brightest, most qualified young people here couldn't get into the best schools and they wouldn't even know how to properly identify themselves on college applications - talk about peoples' futures being put in jeopardy. IMO we needed a recharge. Its certainly nothing personal.
Spooky Posted January 13 Posted January 13 19 minutes ago, 73 Reds said: Yeah but the livelihoods and economics for tens of millions of Americans were under threat under the last administration. Every trade decision then and now has positive and adverse consequences. But heck, the brightest, most qualified young people here couldn't get into the best schools and they wouldn't even know how to properly identify themselves on college applications - talk about peoples' futures being put in jeopardy. IMO we needed a recharge. Its certainly nothing personal. OK but those are separate internal issues. My view is that tariffs are bad policy for the US except with respect to China that does not play by the rules. One of the things that made America great was its commitment to free trade and globalization.
cubsfan Posted January 13 Posted January 13 47 minutes ago, Spooky said: I wasn't making a political statement, just an observation. Seems like your views on the economy are tinted by your political affiliation. It is the same story on tariffs, they aren't having a beneficial impact on the economy - just less bad than was feared. Best thing that could happen for the economy would be for the Supreme Court to overturn the tariffs. I made a statement of fact, which you don't seem to care for - POTUS campaigned and was elected on 2 broad promises: 1) Seal the border 2) Reduce the size of government, starting with Federal & NGO waste, fraud and abuse Unlike most politicians, he's keeping his promises. American are more than willing to suffer some short term pain, so long as they are seeing progress. This Minnesota fraud scandal is a total gift from the Democrats to Trump. The $$ are massive - and the Democrats can't keep the lid on the bad news.
cubsfan Posted January 13 Posted January 13 48 minutes ago, Spooky said: Canada is taking real actions now to diversify its export markets from the US. Carney is headed to Beijing on his way to Davos. If you haven't noticed - America is doing the same with Canada, since much of our oil will now come from Venezuela.
cubsfan Posted January 13 Posted January 13 44 minutes ago, Spooky said: Probably the biggest mistake Obama made was pulling out of the Trans Pacific Partnership. The biggest mistake America made was voting in Obama the race-baiter and funder of Iranian terrorism. Good riddance to the POS. And I voted for the asshole!
Spooky Posted January 13 Posted January 13 2 minutes ago, cubsfan said: If you haven't noticed - America is doing the same with Canada, since much of our oil will now come from Venezuela. Good luck getting it out of the ground
Spooky Posted January 13 Posted January 13 6 minutes ago, cubsfan said: I made a statement of fact, which you don't seem to care for - POTUS campaigned and was elected on 2 broad promises: 1) Seal the border 2) Reduce the size of government, starting with Federal & NGO waste, fraud and abuse Unlike most politicians, he's keeping his promises. American are more than willing to suffer some short term pain, so long as they are seeing progress. This Minnesota fraud scandal is a total gift from the Democrats to Trump. The $$ are massive - and the Democrats can't keep the lid on the bad news. I know this is the politics thread but can we try and see economic reality? Stock market is doing well, yes. But the underlying economy is looking more shaky - almost all GDP growth is coming from data centre construction.
cubsfan Posted January 13 Posted January 13 42 minutes ago, Spooky said: I love the US and am rooting for you guys which is why I am so critical. You don't understand the sentiment in Canada, it feels like we have been stabbed in the back by our big brother. Unfortunately that's what happens when you stab NATO in the back and don't do your share.
cubsfan Posted January 13 Posted January 13 38 minutes ago, Spooky said: You don't get it. 75% of Canada's exports go to the US - the whims of your president have put the livelihoods and the economy for millions of Canadians in jeopardy. You can keep brushing this off but this is existential for us. China will bail you out. Just join the Belt and Road initiative and see how it works out for you.
73 Reds Posted January 13 Posted January 13 11 minutes ago, Spooky said: OK but those are separate internal issues. My view is that tariffs are bad policy for the US except with respect to China that does not play by the rules. One of the things that made America great was its commitment to free trade and globalization. Trump has demonstrated an enormous propensity to renegotiate. A little time and patience is needed.
Spooky Posted January 13 Posted January 13 1 minute ago, cubsfan said: China will bail you out. Just join the Belt and Road initiative and see how it works out for you. So we have China on one side and a belligerent and antagonistic US on the other... what a fucking world. Gonna need to get our nukes back.
cubsfan Posted January 13 Posted January 13 3 minutes ago, Spooky said: I know this is the politics thread but can we try and see economic reality? Stock market is doing well, yes. But the underlying economy is looking more shaky - almost all GDP growth is coming from data centre construction. Reality is that economic change takes time. America has a "do nothing" congress, so the heavy load is carried by Trump executive orders that are dramatically hamstrung by lawfare. Like @73 Reds mentioned - democracy in America is like watching sausage making - ugly and time consuming. Trump is just getting started.
Spooky Posted January 13 Posted January 13 Just now, cubsfan said: Reality is that economic change takes time. America has a "do nothing" congress, so the heavy load is carried by Trump executive orders that are dramatically hamstrung by lawfare. Like @73 Reds mentioned - democracy in America is like watching sausage making - ugly and time consuming. Trump is just getting started. Do you really think these economic changes are for the better? Putting up trade barriers and going it alone?
cubsfan Posted January 13 Posted January 13 4 minutes ago, 73 Reds said: Trump has demonstrated an enormous propensity to renegotiate. A little time and patience is needed. Bingo - Art of the Deal
cubsfan Posted January 13 Posted January 13 3 minutes ago, Spooky said: Do you really think these economic changes are for the better? Putting up trade barriers and going it alone? Of course I do, that's what I voted for - restoring jobs to Americans and rebuild the country. Tariffs and other trade barriers have been employed against the USA for years, all the while our politicians tell the American worker "it's going to be good for you, don't worry, it will all work out" The 30 year experiment with "free trade" has been rejected by the voting public.
Spooky Posted January 13 Posted January 13 Just now, cubsfan said: Of course I do, that's what I voted for - restoring jobs to Americans and rebuild the country. Tariffs and other trade barriers have been employed against the USA for years, all the while our politicians tell the American worker "it's going to be good for you, don't worry, it will all work out" The 30 year experiment with "free trade" has been rejected by the voting public. The 30 years where the wealth and prosperity of the US and the world increased dramatically? Seems like the issue is less free trade but more the distribution of that wealth.
cubsfan Posted January 13 Posted January 13 2 minutes ago, Spooky said: The 30 years where the wealth and prosperity of the US and the world increased dramatically? Seems like the issue is less free trade but more the distribution of that wealth. Which is why the rise of socialism in America. That's the war in the country right now. Politicians (both Dem & Rep) hollowed out the middle class and this is the result. Rejection of lying & self serving politicians. How do you think you end up with a populist that leaders of both established political parties hate? Americans rejecting BOTH parties put Donald Trump in power.
Spooky Posted January 13 Posted January 13 26 minutes ago, cubsfan said: Unfortunately that's what happens when you stab NATO in the back and don't do your share. You guys don’t even care about NATO anymore, give me a break. You’re about to rupture the whole alliance.
cubsfan Posted January 13 Posted January 13 2 minutes ago, Spooky said: You guys don’t even care about NATO anymore, give me a break. You’re about to rupture the whole alliance. I know it's tough medicine for the free-loaders. "Pay up your share or we're gone" Someone had to do it - hate POTUS all you like.
Spooky Posted January 13 Posted January 13 (edited) 1 hour ago, cubsfan said: I know it's tough medicine for the free-loaders. "Pay up your share or we're gone" Someone had to do it - hate POTUS all you like. People have committed to paying more and you're still gone. The alliance is functionally dead since no one trusts that you will be there. Edited January 13 by Spooky
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