changegonnacome Posted March 7 Posted March 7 21 minutes ago, 73 Reds said: psycho-analyze Trump Give me a break - the guy has been declaring fake PR victories of all kinds (business, personal, political) his whole public life why would he stop now. This isn’t psycho analyze it’s pattern recognition 27 minutes ago, 73 Reds said: Iran is now much further away from being a nuclear threat and has now antagonized just about everyone on the planet. Seems simple enough to me. True. Iran’s nuclear threat will be greatly diminished in the short run. Its nuclear desires likely greatly increased over the medium to long term. It’s a win with a small w and a problem for a future administration to deal with.
Castanza Posted March 7 Posted March 7 16 hours ago, changegonnacome said: Failure......Success.......I'm still trying to understand what the objective here is @cubsfan have you figured it out yet? I think people are talking past each other here. There is no debate that at any moment since 1979, 1983, 1989 and all through the GWOT. taking out Iranian leadership would have been a good thing. At the end of the day Iran is a true Jihadist Regime and allowing them to get anywhere within the same proximity of nuclear weapons is a mistake. Iran is not Russia…it’s not even in the same universe. I also think anyone saying the “agreements” this or that should have stood are fooling themselves. There are no agreements with Jihadist Regimes….i don’t care what Obama, Biden, or anyone claimed to have…NOBODY had one. So let’s all agree on that….the engine of terrorism that is Iran leadership had this coming. however… My concern is Trump blindsided the American people with this. There is no clear plan, Congress did not vote on this, we did not include other ally nations and there is no clear end goal or off ramp. Trump lacks empathy and morals when it comes to this and I doubt he actually cares for the people of Iran wanting change. I can see him seizing a moment a month from now and calling it a victory and pulling out. The situation in Iran could very likely require longterm oversight and I wish there was more thought put into this.
Parsad Posted March 7 Posted March 7 1 hour ago, Blake Hampton said: It's interesting how all of this works. Trump starts something that has the capability of creating chaos, it then scares a good amount of people, he ends up walking it back and declaring victory once we're close to the edge, and then he waits a while and eventually does it again. I read the WSJ, NYT, FT, and my local paper every single morning (it's all fake news, I know). I'm only 24 so I've only been doing this for a couple of years, but sometimes I like to reminisce on the dark days of our evil Biden overlord, and it's difficult for me to remember much. Of course the man was a business moron, so there was a lot of stuff that I found sort of dumb. But never anything that was truly shocking to me. Then comes Trump. One after another, unprecedented event after event, it never seems to end with this guy. It never seems to be enough. Every month seemingly there is some new, crazy thing that he's fixated on doing, all of which have the potential for causing serious problems in the future. Pretty much! Plus whatever Teflon coating he has on is a shitload better than anyone else in history. Nothing sticks! And if it does, it slides off each successive term...probably a third one whether he's living or not! No one is talking pee-pee tape now or the 34 convictions. If he somehow makes it through the Trump-Epstein files...geez! One of the greatest slimeballs in history...that literally changed the course of history like few ahead of him. Now whether that course is good or bad is all up for debate and only time will tell! Cheers!
cubsfan Posted March 7 Posted March 7 17 hours ago, changegonnacome said: Failure......Success.......I'm still trying to understand what the objective here is @cubsfan have you figured it out yet? Hey @changegonnacome - what's with moving the goalposts?? Trump/Israel takes out the nuclear capacity. Then a little payback for 50 years of killing Americans - never on the battlefield, as cowards use IED's and terrorism. It's not hard to understand at all. Now that the US is operating from a "position of strength" (which is all Iran understands) - only a total fool would let them off the hook. A moron like Obama or Biden likely would. Not Trump. It's called "unconditional surrender" - nothing more, nothing less. Very simple and brutal. Watch & learn Change.
changegonnacome Posted March 7 Posted March 7 10 minutes ago, Castanza said: There are no agreements with Jihadist Regimes….i don’t care what Obama, Biden, or anyone claimed to have…NOBODY had one. So let’s all agree on that Yeah listen I agree - I guess what Obama Biden would say in their defense is that a JCPOA deal ensured a no nuclear Iran as imperfect as it was and that really the hope always was that the Islamic revolution would collapse from within in time…..because to collapse it by force (ground invasion) would be too high a price to pay. Let’s call it Door A vs Door B. Trump has gone for Door C…..smash Iran around a bit and see what happens…worth a shot I guess….but like you the sense that Trump is free-styling this with no congressional or public support must give the Islamic Regime leaders left praying in their bunkers great comfort….time is on their side and what’s required more than new drones is their resolve to hang on weeks, maybe months and they win which is say the Islamic revolution continues bruised and battered sure but still in charge.
cubsfan Posted March 7 Posted March 7 37 minutes ago, changegonnacome said: It’s a win with a small w and a problem for a future administration to deal with. This is actually getting funny. I can't wait to see what the Big W looks like. Iran military and leadership destroyed after 50 years,,,, sure not a big deal!
SharperDingaan Posted March 7 Posted March 7 Another tanker hit in the SOH today, after another one yesterday; this one waiting for an escort that failed to turn up. Way to go ... reliable reinsurance! https://english.mathrubhumi.com/news/world/iran-irgc-drone-strike-marshall-islands-flagged-tanker-strait-of-hormuz-fp7xzr4f SD
Gregmal Posted March 7 Posted March 7 Well, first it was “Iran didnt have nuclear weapons”, then “they do but Trump TACO…he ll never bomb them”, then he bombs them and “it didn’t totally destroy their weapons”, to which he then goes back to finish the job and it’s “but the Regime might not be fully gone!”, “they’ll only try harder for weapons later”, “Obamas deal was better!”, and Blakes “they don’t have weapons it’s Iraq all over again”….good times!
changegonnacome Posted March 7 Posted March 7 3 minutes ago, cubsfan said: It's called "unconditional surrender" - nothing more, nothing less. Very simple and brutal. Watch & learn Change. High bar @cubsfan - hope it’s all as easy and as inevitable as Trump would have us believe
73 Reds Posted March 7 Posted March 7 30 minutes ago, changegonnacome said: Yeah listen I agree - I guess what Obama Biden would say in their defense is that a JCPOA deal ensured a no nuclear Iran as imperfect as it was and that really the hope always was that the Islamic revolution would collapse from within in time…..because to collapse it by force (ground invasion) would be too high a price to pay. Let’s call it Door A vs Door B. Trump has gone for Door C…..smash Iran around a bit and see what happens…worth a shot I guess….but like you the sense that Trump is free-styling this with no congressional or public support must give the Islamic Regime leaders left praying in their bunkers great comfort….time is on their side and what’s required more than new drones is their resolve to hang on weeks, maybe months and they win which is say the Islamic revolution continues bruised and battered sure but still in charge. Huh? The JCPOA didn't ensure anything other than Iran was free to do what it wanted. That's precisely what happened.
Libs Posted March 7 Posted March 7 46 minutes ago, 73 Reds said: Huh? The JCPOA didn't ensure anything other than Iran was free to do what it wanted. That's precisely what happened. Looks like we've got a military dictatorship, at least for now. I don't have a good link but indications are the IRGC rebuked President Pezeshkian for apologizing for bombing their neighbors. And they (the IRGC and military) are continuing to bomb. That's telling. Pezeshkian is sidelined. I think the Mullahs are out and the IRGC is in command. They will be hard to dislodge; they are deeply embedded Iran in all levels of society. Don't see where they have a choice except to fight to the death. Immunity offers won't cut it. Good luck to the unarmed Iranian people against hundreds of thousand of armed, organized oppressors. I'd love to see the people succeed but.....it's depressing. P.S. You guys like to make fun of the U.S. and our guns. Well....too bad the Iranian citizens don't have any. That would change the equation.
changegonnacome Posted March 7 Posted March 7 (edited) 1 hour ago, 73 Reds said: Huh? The JCPOA didn't ensure anything other than Iran was free to do what it wanted. That's precisely what happened. Where are nukes @73 Reds? Cause if Iran had em they’d be using them right now. You can’t re-write history the JCPOA contained Iran’s nuclear ambitions. Captain Chaos ripped up the deal with no day after plan….i guess Captain Chaos is around long enough where his own turd policy decisions come back to haunt him (the curse of the second term separated by a ‘time out’ I guess!!!). Right now he could be focused on all the good things in his agenda instead he’s got himself bogged down in the Middle East of all places blowing up countless $2000 drones with $4m missiles and he is meant to be the business President Edited March 7 by changegonnacome
73 Reds Posted March 7 Posted March 7 14 minutes ago, Libs said: Looks like we've got a military dictatorship, at least for now. I don't have a good link but indications are the IRGC rebuked President Pezeshkian for apologizing for bombing their neighbors. And they (the IRGC and military) are continuing to bomb. That's telling. Pezeshkian is sidelined. I think the Mullahs are out and the IRGC is in command. They will be hard to dislodge; they are deeply embedded Iran in all levels of society. Don't see where they have a choice except to fight to the death. Immunity offers won't cut it. Good luck to the unarmed Iranian people against hundreds of thousand of armed, organized oppressors. I'd love to see the people succeed but.....it's depressing. P.S. You guys like to make fun of the U.S. and our guns. Well....too bad the Iranian citizens don't have any. That would change the equation. Hard to foresee too far into the future. Perhaps the Kurds will have some ground success. Maybe there are more embedded fighters and IRGC opponents than we think. We know there is a lot of opposition intelligence there so who knows what capabilities we still have. All I know is we are better off now than we were a week ago.
73 Reds Posted March 7 Posted March 7 Just now, changegonnacome said: Where are nukes @73 Reds? Cause if Iran had em they’d be using them right now. You can’t re-write history the JCPOA contained Iran’s nuclear ambitions. Captain Chaos ripped up the deal with no day after plan….i guess Captain Chaos is around long enough where his own turd policy decisions come back to haunt him (the curse of the second term separated by a ‘time out’ I guess!!!). Right now he could be focused on all the good things in his agenda instead he’s got himself bogged down in the Middle East of all places blowing up countless $2000 drones with $4m missiles and he is meant to be the business President Are you serious? Why don't we just wait until they develop and use nukes before we fight back. That's a winning strategy for sure. Sometimes it feels like we are talking about two different Irans on two entirely different planets. And oh-by-the way, Israel wasn't waiting for us or anyone else. As for his agenda, I think he's doing just fine. The narrative that he is bogged down is just that - a narrative.
cubsfan Posted March 7 Posted March 7 2 hours ago, changegonnacome said: High bar @cubsfan - hope it’s all as easy and as inevitable as Trump would have us believe It won't be easy at all - that's why everyone kicked the can down the road. It's a huge risk to his Presidency. It could definitely bring him down. Eliminating the IRGC will be terribly hard. It's the only chance the people have. I hope it goes well. My view is, like Hezbollah, anyone brave enough to raise their head and say "I'm the new leader to fight Trump" - will be a dead man. We saw it with Hamas and Hezbollah - so whether it's Israel or the US - they are dead - until some chump like Obama takes the Presidency.
changegonnacome Posted March 7 Posted March 7 58 minutes ago, 73 Reds said: The narrative that he is bogged down is just that - a narrative. Narrative will meet reality at the midterms. 58 minutes ago, 73 Reds said: Are you serious? Why don't we just wait until they develop and use nukes before we fight back. As I've said Iran is a conundrum - to put the the nuclear threat to bed for good requires root and branch regime which would require hundreds of thousands of American and Israeli boots on the ground to be achieved. Every President including Trump in his first term have deemed that too high a price to pay. So if your not willing to meat out the above actual solution your left with a kind of containment strategy which can have two aspects - either containment via an inspection regime/sanction relief or you can have containment via periodically mowing the lawn with massive military commitments. Guess its a case of picking your poison - no solutions only trade offs as they say. 33 minutes ago, cubsfan said: We saw it with Hamas and Hezbollah - so whether it's Israel or the US - they are dead Dont forget the Houthis too.....like Hamas and Hezbollah Trump told us he was going destroy them.....yet all are still around....indeed Trump did a deal with the Houthis in the end after trying to bomb them out of existence as it was hopeless task to defeat them (another $2000 drone vs $4m missile boondoggle that ended up costing the US taxpayer a cool tres comas). These groups seem so weak and barbic relative to us but every President has to seem to learn the hard way that for all our military gadgetary and 'discombobulators' American military power can only get you so far. Second term Trump is learning that lesson slowly but he seems to be a slow learner, the Houthis should have been a perfect lesson in the limits of military power. Must be very annoying to think your the most powerful man in the world with the greatest military tech costing your trillions and to find out you can't beat a bunch of religious lunatic knuckle draggers driving around in Toyota Hilux's in the desert but that's what the evidence says. Life's a bitch. "Trump announces deal to stop bombing Houthis, end shipping attacks" - https://www.reuters.com/world/trump-says-us-will-stop-bombing-houthis-after-agreement-struck-2025-05-06/ "Houthis say US 'backed down' and Israel not covered by ceasefire" - https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cglxl67g28no
cubsfan Posted March 7 Posted March 7 7 minutes ago, changegonnacome said: Narrative will meet reality at the midterms. As I've said Iran is a conundrum - to put the the nuclear threat to bed for good requires root and branch regime which would require hundreds of thousands of American and Israeli boots on the ground to be achieved. Every President including Trump in his first term have deemed that too high a price to pay. So if your not willing to meat out the above actual solution your left with a kind of containment strategy which can have two aspects - either containment via an inspection regime/sanction relief or you can have containment via periodically mowing the lawn with massive military commitments. Guess its a case of picking your poison - no solutions only trade offs as they say. Dont forget the Houthis too.....like Hamas and Hezbollah Trump told us he was going destroy them.....yet all are still around....indeed Trump did a deal with the Houthis in the end after trying to bomb them out of existence as it was hopeless task to defeat them (another $2000 drone vs $4m missile boondoggle that ended up costing the US taxpayer a cool tres comas). These groups seem so weak and barbic relative to us but every President has to seem to learn the hard way that for all our military gadgetary and 'discombobulators' American military power can only get you so far. Second term Trump is learning that lesson slowly but he seems to be a slow learner, the Houthis should have been a perfect lesson in the limits of military power. Must be very annoying to think your the most powerful man in the world with the greatest military tech costing your trillions and to find out you can't beat a bunch of religious lunatic knuckle draggers driving around in Toyota Hilux's in the desert but that's what the evidence says. Life's a bitch. "Trump announces deal to stop bombing Houthis, end shipping attacks" - https://www.reuters.com/world/trump-says-us-will-stop-bombing-houthis-after-agreement-struck-2025-05-06/ "Houthis say US 'backed down' and Israel not covered by ceasefire" - https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cglxl67g28no Bothers you more than me! All in all, it's going great. The only ones getting smoked are the terrorists. You might want to give the whole situation more than a week before you declare disaster.
changegonnacome Posted March 8 Posted March 8 4 hours ago, cubsfan said: You might want to give the whole situation more than a week before you declare disaster. No disasters yet….just a sense that a lot of people seem to think that Trump has discovered something that Reagan, Bush Snr, Clinton, Bush Jnr, Obama & Biden somehow missed….that all they had to do to fix the Iran nuclear conundrum & end the Iranian Islamic revolution was to bomb the hell out of them for a few weeks….easy peazy…very strange they didn’t?!?!?…it’s a fine line between a disrupter and a moron. Needless to say Trump’s tweets about unconditional surrender and picking Iran’s new leader are not going to age well IMO….don’t believe me - all the reporting coming out of the Pentagon has the chance of what Trump is saying as coming to pass (regime change) having depressingly low probability….maybe Donald has variant perception on the situation, guess we’ll find out!
UK Posted March 8 Posted March 8 https://archive.is/dxMXD For more than a decade, Beijing has worked quietly and methodically to turn Iran into the keystone of its Middle East strategy. That strategy has now collapsed.
Buckeye Posted March 8 Posted March 8 (edited) I was ecstatic to wake up today and read Donald Trump’s tweet declaring victory in Iran! Hopefully the Archives still have GW Bush’s “Mission Accomplished” banner that Trump can drape across the White House. "That’s OK, Prime Minister Starmer, we don’t need them any longer — But we will remember. We don’t need people that join Wars after we’ve already won!" And you people are worried about “endless wars”?!? Not with this genius in charge! (Side note, I think there is talk about renaming the MacArthur Fellowship the “Trump Grant” ) ps the last bit was sarcasm…unfortunately the tweet-quote is real Edited March 8 by Buckeye
John Hjorth Posted March 8 Posted March 8 32 minutes ago, Buckeye said: I was ecstatic to wake up today and read Donald Trump’s tweet declaring victory in Iran! Hopefully the Archives still have GW Bush’s “Mission Accomplished” banner that Trump can drape across the White House. "That’s OK, Prime Minister Starmer, we don’t need them any longer — But we will remember. We don’t need people that join Wars after we’ve already won!" And you people are worried about “endless wars”?!? Not with this genius in charge! (Side note, I think there is talk about renaming the MacArthur Fellowship the “Trump Grant” ) ps the last bit was sarcasm…unfortunately the tweet-quote is real https://truthsocial.com/@realDonaldTrump/posts/116189925042301817 Furthermore, 'The United Kingdom, our once Great Ally ...', yet another insult of a a US ally. This man simply can't stab a stick in a turd without destroying both.
73 Reds Posted March 8 Posted March 8 13 hours ago, changegonnacome said: Narrative will meet reality at the midterms. As I've said Iran is a conundrum - to put the the nuclear threat to bed for good requires root and branch regime which would require hundreds of thousands of American and Israeli boots on the ground to be achieved. Every President including Trump in his first term have deemed that too high a price to pay. So if your not willing to meat out the above actual solution your left with a kind of containment strategy which can have two aspects - either containment via an inspection regime/sanction relief or you can have containment via periodically mowing the lawn with massive military commitments. Guess its a case of picking your poison - no solutions only trade offs as they say. Dont forget the Houthis too.....like Hamas and Hezbollah Trump told us he was going destroy them.....yet all are still around....indeed Trump did a deal with the Houthis in the end after trying to bomb them out of existence as it was hopeless task to defeat them (another $2000 drone vs $4m missile boondoggle that ended up costing the US taxpayer a cool tres comas). These groups seem so weak and barbic relative to us but every President has to seem to learn the hard way that for all our military gadgetary and 'discombobulators' American military power can only get you so far. Second term Trump is learning that lesson slowly but he seems to be a slow learner, the Houthis should have been a perfect lesson in the limits of military power. Must be very annoying to think your the most powerful man in the world with the greatest military tech costing your trillions and to find out you can't beat a bunch of religious lunatic knuckle draggers driving around in Toyota Hilux's in the desert but that's what the evidence says. Life's a bitch. "Trump announces deal to stop bombing Houthis, end shipping attacks" - https://www.reuters.com/world/trump-says-us-will-stop-bombing-houthis-after-agreement-struck-2025-05-06/ "Houthis say US 'backed down' and Israel not covered by ceasefire" - https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cglxl67g28no It's not that complicated. You deal with immediate threats now. People looking for "forever" solutions are kidding themselves. If permanent change is somehow achieved its a bonus. And as for midterms, no one reasonably expects any Presidential incumbent to retain power after midterm elections. Hardly a case of first impression though the "narrative" would have you believe otherwise.
cubsfan Posted March 8 Posted March 8 11 hours ago, changegonnacome said: No disasters yet….just a sense that a lot of people seem to think that Trump has discovered something that Reagan, Bush Snr, Clinton, Bush Jnr, Obama & Biden somehow missed….that all they had to do to fix the Iran nuclear conundrum & end the Iranian Islamic revolution was to bomb the hell out of them for a few weeks….easy peazy…very strange they didn’t?!?!?…it’s a fine line between a disrupter and a moron. Needless to say Trump’s tweets about unconditional surrender and picking Iran’s new leader are not going to age well IMO….don’t believe me - all the reporting coming out of the Pentagon has the chance of what Trump is saying as coming to pass (regime change) having depressingly low probability….maybe Donald has variant perception on the situation, guess we’ll find out! Hey if he doesn't get unconditional surrender, the beatings continue until their capacity to wage war is gone. It's a win for the world either way.
backtothebeach Posted March 8 Posted March 8 Lots of strike footage I had not seen before and I thought a good summary of many aspects of this war.
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